PDA

View Full Version : 1916 Mauser help needed


UniversalFrost
May 6, 2009, 01:17 PM
Ok, I just picked up a 1916 Spanish Mauser.

I have owned several in the past and all were marked identically, but this one doesn't have the crest or any other markings. the receiver looks like it was never stamped with the crest and is very clean with only the serial.

All the other 1916 mausers had the crest and also had the 7.62 stamp if they had been converted from the original 7mm mauser.

This gun is in great shape (still has cosmo on it) not import marked and is numbers matching on everything (cleaning rod doesn't have a number at all, but I don't count that anyway :p ).

Only thing that says it is a 1916 mauser and 7.62 NATO is the very inventory old hang tag that came with the gun.

Anyone else have any input on this gun and why no markings on the receiver (like it is a blank and has not been scrubbed).

on a side note. I am gonna get a chamber casting to verify whether it was converted to 7.62 or if it is still 7mm mauser, just to be safe, especially since it is not marked as such.

here is the link to the auction for the gun and has some pics, but they are kinda bad. The gun actually looks 100% better in person and not all dinged up like it does in the pics. also note the picture of the receiver where it doesn't have the crest or the 7.62 stamp

http://www.auctionarms.com/Closed/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=9090249.0

UniversalFrost
May 6, 2009, 05:56 PM
also, just reread the ad and noticed he said the barrel was import marked, but I can't find any markings on this gun other than the serial. I am gonna refield strip it tonight and see if i can find the import mark on the barrel that the guy is talking about

Scorch
May 8, 2009, 11:46 PM
Look under the barrel near the muzzle.

I believe that receiver has been refinished, judging by the photos. Compare the metal condition and finish on the receiver with the condition of the magazine floorplate.

Either way, enjoy it, they're a great rifle. I'm sorry I got rid of mine when I got divorced.

BobbyT
May 9, 2009, 06:06 AM
Ok call me out here if I don't know what I'm talking about (don't have 7mm experience), but you shouldn't need a chamber casting.

The 7mm and .308 are very different in size, so it should be readily apparent which barrel is on there.

James K
May 9, 2009, 05:55 PM
Use caution when dealing with 7mm rifles converted to 7.62 NATO. Not only were the guns not made for the higher pressure of the 7.62, but some were converted by using a chamber inset, OK for light use or for an emergency weapon, but not IMHO, desireable for a rifle to be used for much shooting.

Jim

Tom2
May 9, 2009, 08:25 PM
OK what about handloads downloaded to starting charges or something?

HankC1
May 9, 2009, 08:53 PM
There are many unmarked ones. Mine is unmarked. More info here:

http://www.geocities.com/fritz125541/Unmarked1916

It also has a good discussion about the 308 conversion and how it is done on 1916 rifles.

ksstargazer
May 10, 2009, 05:23 PM
7.62 NATO is fine in these firearms. That is what they were converted for. I have one and it is a handy rifle and pretty accurate too. The arguments are generally as to whether they can handle .308. .308 Win. is higher pressure and not recommended.

yodarkritch
May 10, 2009, 06:00 PM
Kyrie Ellis on another list pointed out the 7.62 Cetme developmental cartridge (for the CETMES as they were being conceived postwar by their German designers) that had a long skinny 130 grain bullet and they werent powered as hot as the NATO round designed for the early CETME rifles which were delayed blowback. Those 7.62 marked 1916s were designed for the puny CETME cartridge and not NATO. Used with the lighter CETME cartridge the 1916 Mauser rifles gave good service till the FR-8 came into being.

OH by the way, iirc they 1916's were 1893's and made with SPANISH steels from Oviedo and not the tougher Oberndorf Mauser steels.

That CETME was re-engineered into the G-3 service rifle by HK, but the Spanish Cetme's were a special breed

7.62 Nato was never intended for those 1916's which were trainers for that proprietary 7.62 ammo made specially for the Cetme's

Kyrie sent me reams of printouts on the history of the rifle and cartridge and the behavior of that Mauser species when used with 7.62 Nato ammo. As a gunsmith, he had to take back a number of them that in use demonstrated traits that were precursors to failing.

The rifle with NATO ammo is destined to fail and it was a crapshoot when it would fail. For the average 20 rounds a year hunter perhapsd not for his lifetime, some of us serious crufflers would shoot ten times that in a day .


yodar

Flipper 56
May 12, 2009, 05:09 AM
I have an unmarked "OT" series. I have used 308s with 150 grain Hornady Interlocks loaded to 300 Savage levels. Fairly accurate results :cool: Commercial 308s will "stretch" the receiver making the bolt difficult to operate, remember receiver was made for 7mm Mauser pressures.

UniversalFrost
May 12, 2009, 09:49 PM
guys and gals thanks for the links.

I am familiar with these rifles (have owned 5 so far) and this was the only one with a scrubbed receiver.

turns out it is the OT model of serials as well.

already have some light loaded 308 ammo that I put through it and working on some more light loads for it. I got lots of 150gr hornady sp's so working on some light loads with those, cci 200 primers and imr4895.

the little gun is handy and holds good groups from a rest and sights are spot on.

still got a lot of cleaning to do as the stock absorbed a lot of cosmo and even after letting sit in the sun in a blag trash sack with paper towels soaking up the cosmo it still has some. will hit with a heat gun later on. and then a good kerosene dip if needed.

already steamed out the dings and also steamed the area on the stock near the lower band that had some fit issues and swelled the wood enough that it now has a tight fit .

all in all am happy I got another of these little rifles. this one I won't sell (I said that for the last 4 but this time I mean it).

JOE

Flipper 56
May 15, 2009, 05:38 AM
I am familiar with these rifles (have owned 5 so far)

Ever try putting a scope on one of these? I'm thinking about it ........

UniversalFrost
May 15, 2009, 10:50 AM
no, but you would need to do a scout scope mount on the rear sight, otherwise with drilling a tapping the receiver for a scope mount you would have to rebend the bolt handle and also put in a different safety (2 position or a side mount).

Flipper 56
May 16, 2009, 08:54 AM
Tap the receiver ! :eek: Heresy I say :barf:
No, a mount in place of the rear sight would be the only responsible way to go, just wondering if anyone knew where to get a suitable mount.

UniversalFrost
May 16, 2009, 10:32 AM
i agree with you flipper.


I only sporterize really bad guns and not any that are serviceable.

HankC1
May 16, 2009, 04:44 PM
Those 7.62 marked 1916s were designed for the puny CETME cartridge and not NATO.

Then why this 1967 Spanish manual clearly showing 7.62NATO on the cover?


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/HankC_2006/1916762NATO.jpg

Kyrie sent me reams of printouts on the history of the rifle and cartridge and the behavior of that Mauser species when used with 7.62 Nato ammo.
The rifle with NATO ammo is destined to fail and it was a crapshoot when it would fail.
Care to share this information? I have researched hundreds of internet posings on 7.62NATO safety in this rifle, a lot of talks but have not seen a single valid evidence so far.

Flipper 56
May 17, 2009, 03:06 AM
It looks more like 7 (comma) 62 than 7 (decimal) 62 :confused:

46,000 psi CUP - 7mm Mauser (SAAMI maximum)
46,800 psi CUP - 7.62 CETME (from the manual)
49,700 psi CUP - 7.62 NATO (from the manual)
52,000 psi CUP - 308 Winchester (SAAMI maximum)

A little disparity between the numbers....eh?

How much of a "Built-In?" safety margin is enough?!?!?!?!

UniversalFrost
May 17, 2009, 09:52 AM
for me I load light .308 loads to begin with on this rifle.

if you do shoot 308 or nato loads, keep an eye out for signs on the brass and the gun that are precursors to failure.

I would bet to say that you could get by shooting 308 commercial loads for a long time as long as you pay attention to the gun and ammo. if the bolt is hard to lift or the brass shows stretching, etc... then you over did it. militaries will always load way past max to proof test actions to see exactly that their limits are. if the nato loads were close to the max for these guns then they would have never converted them.

BobbyT
May 17, 2009, 06:43 PM
Uh, "7,62" is just how those weird Europeans would write "7.62". Just like they write 1.000 for 1,000.

And if you look underneath is says "Transformado de 7mm" -- converted from 7mm.

Flipper 56
May 21, 2009, 04:39 AM
"Transformado de 7mm" -- converted from 7mm.

Yeah, but it doesn't say Tranformando Correctamundo

Which in the U.S.A. means DONE RIGHT

I would stick with mild loads (300 savage levels)
and not push yer luck :rolleyes:

iamdug
May 27, 2009, 04:25 PM
A Mauser (sworn enemy of the Mosin) firing 7.62...hmmmmmm:confused:

RICKSR
June 5, 2009, 12:46 PM
Hello. I just bought one and am waiting for it to arrive. I did my home work first and found every article i could find simply by putting Spanish Mauser, 1916 Mauser, Mauser 1916 Spanish & FR & FR. I then put it into a search bar,(GOGGLE) and pushed enter. One of the best articles and most informative was what i got from this site which i am including with this post. This is the man's name and site.
Mark Trope
Field Editor
g-owner.net

This si a copy of an e-mail i wrote to him and his answer. Hope it helps.

Hi Rick,
I'm glad you enjoyed the article.

Q. I have some military ammo which is head stamped, LC
05 with a O and a + sign in the middle. I am aware that this is Lake City
and the 05 means Mfg. Date. Do you know what the
pressure is for this particular load and is it safe to shoot in that rifle
being it checks out for being sound by a competent gunsmith etc.

A. The pressure for that load is 50,000 PSI. Yes it is safe to shoot in a checked-out FR-8

Q. What would be considered good enough for shooting in military bolt action shoots which my club has from time to time.

A. Try 40.0 grains of IMR 4895 and a 150 grain bullet. This is a good, all around, mild pressure load.

Have fun with your FR-8. They are still around, just getting a bit pricier now for the cleanest ones.

Best Regards,

Mark Trope

Hawg Haggen
June 5, 2009, 01:16 PM
I had one of the 1916's and it was marked .308 near the muzzle, not 7.62 :confused:
I used .308 Winchester in it for several years. Had it fully sporterized(against my gunsmith's objections). I never had any trouble with it and fired several thousand rounds through it.

Dr. Mauser
June 5, 2009, 02:01 PM
I would say go for it, i know people that shoot 5.56 from a .223 actioned weapon.

Tamara
June 5, 2009, 10:02 PM
Hello. I just bought one and am waiting for it to arrive. I did my home work first and found every article i could find simply by putting Spanish Mauser, 1916 Mauser, Mauser 1916 Spanish & FR & FR...

Be aware that the 1916 Guardia Civil rifles are not the same as the FR-8; the FR-8 was built on the beefier Spanish M43 Mauser action, which is a clone of the German Mauser 98 and has a stonger receiver, a safety lug, and handles gas better.