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cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 06:28 AM
I ordered a .223 suppressor over six months ago and I've been asking my FFL every month about the status of my paperwork. The last e-mail I got said that they don't know what happened to the paperwork, what's the deal? They said they are looking for the forms and are calling the ATF and tracking them down but that was a month ago. The last e-mail I sent last week went unanswered. Any way I can get in touch with the ATF to check on this myself? This is my first suppressor and I sure hope I don't get scammed. This is the company that I ordered from, did it all over e-mail and snail mail. Perhaps I should have went into the shop in person and dropped off the paperwork:

http://www.ironridgeguns.com/

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 06:35 AM
You could call the NFA, but you'd also need the serial number on the suppressor to get the status. I think this is their current number: (304) 616-4500

So are they telling you that they received your forms back from the NFA, then lost them?

cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 06:51 AM
I'm not sure if they included a serial number with the paperwork or not. After five months I got this e-mail from them, sounds like they don't know what is going on:

The notes I have here say that we sent you the forms and then you needed to get them to the So office to have them sign??? And then get them back to use??? Did you send them to the ATF// thx
Iron Ridge


I filled out the forms and sent them to Iron Ridge and they were supposed to include my payment (paid via credit card) and forward them to the ATF.

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 06:56 AM
Payment is supposed to be attached to your forms via a check or MO.

I'd call the NFA and see if they've received anything and go from there.

You should have had to get the CLEO signoff on your forms, fingerprints, and mugshot, along with all other things involved in a form 4, then mail them yourself to the NFA once completed.

cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 06:56 AM
I called that number, looks like it's a good working number. They asked me for the serial number so I asked my FFL, hopefully they have the number written down somewhere.

cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 06:59 AM
Yea, I had all of that stuff together and paid the whole amount to my FFL. The FFL wanted me to send everything to them so they could attach my $200 (paid via credit card along with my suppressor) and send it along to the ATF. I'm hoping they sent it to the ATF.

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 07:01 AM
When I bought my SBR, my dealer filled out his information on the form 4, then mailed everything to me.

I signed everything that was necessary, attached my check, appropriate sections of my trust, and mailed them in myself.

I attached a money order, so I couldn't see when the actual check was cashed, but it only took me 76 days from start to finish.

Sounds like these guys are a bunch of clowns.

I'd be on the phone with the FFL asap, and the NFA. If you've been screwed, I'd then be on the phone with my credit card company disputing the charges.

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 07:05 AM
So you did get the CLEO signoff, fingerprints, etc?

Do you have receipts for the payment to the FFL?

cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 07:11 AM
Yep, I got the fingerprints, Sheriff sign off, passport photos, form 4, etc. etc. Put it all together and sent it to my FFL. I paid in full with my debit card and have a record of the transaction. Have all the e-mails too, even this one that shows they received my paperwork:



From: Tech [mailto:tech@ironridgeguns.com]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:31 PM
To: 'Chris Hardwick'
Subject: RE: : Suppressor for Bushmaster XM15 ES2 with 16" Barrel/Iron Ridge/

Chris got your paper work….. did you get me a check I don’t remember??

From: Chris Hardwick [mailto:cchardwick@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:38 PM
To: 'Tech'
Subject: RE: : Suppressor for Bushmaster XM15 ES2 with 16" Barrel/Iron Ridge/

OK, when I get the paperwork all together I’ll send it all your way. Thanks for taking care of all this red tape for me, it sure makes things easier.

Chris



From: Tech [mailto:tech@ironridgeguns.com]
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 5:53 PM
To: 'Chris Hardwick'
Subject: : Suppressor for Bushmaster XM15 ES2 with 16" Barrel/Iron Ridge/

I had to order the M4-2000 should be on the way in a couple of weeks, we need to have ATF sigh off on the deal from the Manf. Then It will come to us here, then we will include the SN. To the form …So when you get it back send it to us here. We have the 200.00 payment as well which we will include.
Iron Ridge
1110 delaware Av suite A
Longmont Co 80501
303.772.4365

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 07:15 AM
So I guess what you need to do is get the FFL on the phone and get the serial no. for the can, then call the NFA and see what the deal is. Something isn't right if it's taking that long.

cchardwick
May 6, 2009, 07:33 AM
Yea, this is scaring the crap out of me, I just got done with a big camera scandal that me and my wife got involved in that we fought for about eight months before we got all our money back (a couple thousand bucks), what a nightmare. I was thinking about getting a new 9mm handgun with suppressor but after this nightmare I'm thinking twice about it. Too bad you couldn't just walk into a place and buy a suppressor like you can buy a gun or ammo and walk out with it the same day.

Wiskey_33
May 6, 2009, 07:43 AM
Keep us posted as to what excuse your FFL uses this time.


Oh yea, pass the corn....this should be good.

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s353/olga_itf/mj/1323348pqf0vvcgbx.gif

Ridge_Runner_5
May 6, 2009, 04:06 PM
Best of luck man...keep us updated!!

In the future, might I suggest Machine Gun Tours in Dumont for future NFA transactions? They are good people and will work hard to make sure you get exactly what you want...

Willie Lowman
May 6, 2009, 07:46 PM
Did you write the $200 check to the ATF or the dealer?

David Hineline
May 6, 2009, 08:17 PM
You will have to communicate with Iron Ridge, hopefully they will not string you along, nothing ordered from AAC comes in a couple weeks.

cchardwick
June 9, 2009, 05:11 PM
OK, here's the update. So I got an e-mail from Iron Ridge about two weeks ago and they said they hadn't heard from ATF, but then a day or so later I got an e-mail from ATF answering my question, they said they sent the approved form to Iron Ridge a month ago! So I asked if they could resend the form and sure enough it reached Iron Ridge in about two days.

So today I went to get my suppressor from Iron Ridge, only thing is that they messed up the paperwork. :mad: They had listed an AAC M42000 but then put the serial number to a GemTech suppressor, and even pulled a GemTech and put my name on it, what the heck? Now they are saying I have to go back to the Sheriff and get his signature again, maybe fingerprints again, and resubmit my paperwork for corrections? And on top of that I drove three hours round trip to get to Iron Ridge and back only to come home ****** off and empty handed.

:barf:

Wiskey_33
June 9, 2009, 06:07 PM
Dude,

get your money back and go through a reputable dealer. These guys are clowns and you need to inform the NFA of their shady dealings. Seriously. They shouldn't be dealing NFA items if they don't have their stuff together.

You'll have to eat the $200, unless you can get someone from NFA on the line and hopefully get some help from them.

These guys are morons.

cchardwick
June 9, 2009, 08:53 PM
I agree, but I've been unemployed for some time now and can't afford to eat my $200. I just want to get my suppressor and be done with them.

oldcspsarge
June 9, 2009, 11:47 PM
Call Oliver back and have him straighten it out. He can submit a corrected set of forms with the proper serial number and manufacturer...the original $ 200 transfer fee will be applied and HE will have to explain to BATF why HE screwed up the paperwork.

This process will NOT require another set of prints or and new LEO signature.

I have heard many stories of IRON RIDGE ...this just goes to prove what they do best....and worst.

............and then have him tell you what he will do to make this all right with you !

KCabbage
June 10, 2009, 10:14 AM
For cryin' out loud :eek:

Lexington
June 10, 2009, 07:59 PM
I suspect there is not as much drama as is being portrayed here. Oliver runs a straight shop. I bought a suppressor that went smoothly, as have many other people. He moves a lot of high-end MG's, too. He is not going to scam anyone for a $200 tax stamp, and the ATF doesn't need to be informed of any "shady dealings".

Plainly, something got SNAFU'ed. It happens. Let Oliver work to fix the situation. If amended forms are all it takes, then he will pursue that route.

OP, do you have a record of your original order that confirms it was an M4-2000? If you gave only a verbal order after talking at length about a number of selections, including a Gemtech, then an error can easily occur. If the order is documented as being an M4-2000, then human error occurred and it will be taken care of.

Jimmym40a2
June 11, 2009, 12:09 AM
I have bought 4 suppressors (and many gun parts,etc) from Iron Ridge Guns and my friends have bought many of them as well as machine guns.Oliver's a straight up guy and if there was a mistake he will make it right. He is not going to rip you off.I have run several shops my self and you do everything you can to give great customer service but unfortunately mistakes happen. That is what it sounds like here and Oliver will take care of you.Just keep communicating with Him and work it out. NFA stuff takes longer and is more stressful than most stuff. It's going to turn out right.

cchardwick
June 11, 2009, 01:03 AM
Yes, he looked up the original order and it was an AAC M4 2000. Sounds like some people had some good experiences with Iron Ridge and that makes me feel a bit better. This is my first suppressor and I was afraid I was going to get ripped off, but it sounds like I may actually get it someday. Oliver called me today and said that he'd overnight the paperwork to get things moving along. But after this ordeal I'm not sure I'll be getting any other NFA stuff.

:rolleyes:

By the way, I just got done with a big digital camera scam that tried to take me for a few thousand bucks. I had the order split between two credit cards and fought for about six months before I got all my money back. Now I'm a bit shell shocked.

:eek:

Wiskey_33
June 11, 2009, 06:25 AM
Don't let this experience turn you off of NFA items.

I got my first one last October through www.politesocietyinc.com and it couldn't have been smoother. Some places just seem to run a tighter ship than others.

My transfer took me 76 days from start to finish and I couldn't be happier:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/Wiskey_33/CIMG5609.jpg

smee78
June 11, 2009, 06:44 AM
Two brand new people with one post under there name defending a company that screwed up big time and passed the buck back to the atf every time you asked them a question, Yea I believe you:( NOT!

Wiskey_33
June 11, 2009, 06:51 AM
I just find it very strange that someone who's dealing in class 3 weapons can't get their paperwork right, then tries to push the blame off on someone else.

You should have had the can a long time ago at this point, and there is no excuse for the mistake.

I'd push for a free case of ammo.:D

Jimmym40a2
June 11, 2009, 08:46 AM
Yeah- I joined after seeing this post. I'm a member of about 8 other forums but mainly hang at silencertalk and snipers hide.After seeing this I decided to join to let him know that Oliver will take care of him.I knew I would get flamed for my low post count but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is not true.cchardwick-Oliver will make it right.Don't let this deter you from the NFA world. You will get your can. I know your first one is nerve racking enough and to have any complications makes you nervous.But you will be shooting you m2000 (I have one too- great can) before you know it.Hang in there.......

Lexington
June 11, 2009, 11:36 AM
And a guy from South Carolina with 121 posts and no local knowledge has credibility to make a blanket statement that makes it sound like a NFA shop does nothing but mess up all of the time?

I'll take a low post count and better credibility any day.

I know Iron Ridge intimately well. I think I make a better character reference for the OP to rely on.

I also know the OP was offered some restitution.

smee78
June 12, 2009, 08:18 AM
(NFA shop does nothing but mess up all of the time) Well basing the info from the OP, I would say yes, the class 3 dealer in this case has screwed up. As far as your (better credibility any day) well you have none as far as I am concerned.(I know Iron Ridge intimately well) just because you work there or have bought a prouduct from them doesent mean that they havent screwed up this time. I have bought class 3 items in the past and have never had such a poor excuse for customer service. If the OP is leaving something out (I also know the OP was offered some restitution) that is between him and them but it was not posted in his original post so you cant knock anyone for not knowing that detail. I hope the OP gets his problem sorted out and learns from this that some class 3 dealers are better than others.

Smee78

p99guy
June 12, 2009, 01:23 PM
However well they do on 99.9% of thier transfers, who ever the employee was that handled this tranfer wasnt at thier best that day to say the least. As much as items going to NFA branch should be double checked, its obvious that wasn't done either, or it would have never got that far. That cost a customer months of wait time
and jumping through several hoops to find out what the problem was.
This is quite a bit worse than somebody at Wendy's forgetting to biggie size your order.

A business is as good as its worst employee, if they let them roam free:)

oldcspsarge
June 13, 2009, 10:32 AM
Chill out guys. !

It is a simple mistake on paperwork. I am sure Oliver will fix it.

The buyer is a newby in NFA purchases. Almost all transfers take about 6 months right now for approval on a tax stamp.

They buyer was burned on a digital camera purchase. Camera dealers are not licensed by or subject to government approval on each and every transfer like a NFA firearm. He is a little too paranoid.

Everything NFA has a serial number and a paper trail. When mistakes are made, they can be corrected. It is that simple.

Mouthing off about notifying NFA about a dealer, shows how uninformed somebody is. When everything you do goes thru your assigned examiner at NFA, they are well aware of how you do everything.

Give IronRidge a chance to fix it .

PS: Anybody purchasing an NFA item, get a copy of the paperwork from the start with the box circled on the forms to allow you to inquire thru NFA on the status of the transfer. This also means you have a record of exactly the make, model and serial # of what you purchased.

cchardwick
June 17, 2009, 11:29 PM
Who said they heard this?

(I also know the OP was offered some restitution)

Oliver did mention that he would 'take care of me' but didn't offer any specifics on what he would acutally do for me. You must have talked to Oliver in person for you to say that, perhaps he gave you some details that he didn't tell me? A box of ammo would be nice, or even just thirty bucks to cover my gas for my wasted trip out there.

:confused:

Wiskey_33
June 19, 2009, 11:56 AM
Any word? Has the dealer said anything about getting your CORRECT paperwork back out?

cchardwick
June 30, 2009, 09:52 PM
Sounds like the gun shop sent the paperwork to the sheriff and as soon as they get it back they will overnight it to the ATF. Once I hear from them I'll post something.

Wiskey_33
July 2, 2009, 06:18 AM
Hey just think, once, if, he gets that done, you'll only have about 4 more months to wait!
:rolleyes:

Wiskey_33
August 18, 2009, 08:42 AM
Any news?

Zak Smith
August 18, 2009, 03:18 PM
Oliver is a good dude. It sounds like a honest mistake.

Jensen Arms in Loveland CO is probably the biggest Class 3 dealer in northern Colorado.

PTK
August 18, 2009, 10:06 PM
Zak,

Re: Jensen Arms, agreed. I was just up there BSing with Ray. :D

Brenden
August 19, 2009, 02:32 AM
After reading this thread,I am also curious how this turns/turned out!!

cchardwick
September 20, 2009, 06:20 AM
OK, here's an update on my supressor, after 10 months of waiting I decided to get a refund for the suppressor. Only problem is that it seems they don't want to give me my money back. I told them I wanted a refund almost four weeks ago and after dozens of e-mails I still don't have it. Good thing it was only a $1,290 suppressor and not a full auto weapon that would cost much more. I'm going to give them a few more days and then I'm going to have to get my lawyer and credit card company involved (which has worked well in the past for getting money back from scam artists). Wish me luck.

:(

Brenden
September 20, 2009, 06:23 AM
I certainly wish you the best in your endeavor!!

Ridge_Runner_5
September 20, 2009, 12:44 PM
Good luck, man! Seems like they really laid you over a barrel and don't want to man up on it!

cchardwick
September 30, 2009, 03:04 PM
Well I finally got the refund check and dropped it off at the bank. Man, what a ride! I don't think I'll ever get an NFA weapon again, too many bad memories LOL.

Brenden
September 30, 2009, 10:20 PM
Glad that the refund came thru!!

Zak Smith
September 30, 2009, 10:45 PM
Don't let it spoil you for NFA items.