How far can you shoot your favorite wheel gun?

[rauke]

Specifically, how far can you step back and still put a cylinder-full into an IDPA silhouette?

It doesn't matter if you shoot a .22 or a .460 S&W --- if you've done it, I'd like to be able to point it out as an example of what a dedicated wheel gunner can do with his favorite piece.

(Please specify what the gun was, and if you were using open sights or a scope, and what shooting position was used---prone, bench-rest, two-handed standing, etc.)

My best is 6 .357 rounds into an IDPA silhouette at 50 meters, from a 4"-barreled Ruger Security-Six. (Still haven't been able to find a longer range to shoot at, but am definitely looking..!)

[doc540]

Give me a few rounds to warm up and I can put 6 from my Colt snubbie on the paper at 50 yds, two-handed from a rest.

[m.p.driver]

With my 28 Highway Patrolman,6 inch barrel, i can nail bowling pins at 100 yards

[MrBorland]

Specifically, how far can you step back and still put a cylinder-full into an IDPA silhouette?

Rapid fire, or slow, very deliberate shots? Either way, double action, I assume, too.

My range only goes to 20 yards, but I'm always up for a challenge. What would you like to see? 6 head shots at 20 yards? 6 forehead shots at 20, lol? Friday morning's my range time.

[rauke]

I'm more concerned with the maximum accuracy potential of a wheel gun in skilled hands, so I'd have to say very slow, deliberate fire, single-action.

And yes, I share your grief---really long ranges are difficult to come by.

[azredhawk44]

Longest shot I'd take on game with one of my wheelguns is about 40 yards.

I'll plink at cinderblocks and water jugs to 100 yards though. Certainly don't always hit them, but it's the only way to get better.

[DavidAGO]

50 yds, S&W 686 .357 8" barrel with red dot sight. with bench rest, all 6 shots in 2". standing, two handed, I can keep them within 8". I have not tried to work up a load for any further yardage yet, but the previous owner of my 686 could make 2" groups all day long standing at 75 yards. The gun is able, I'm not yet. The accuracy of revolvers still just amazes me.

I am fairly new to a S&W 442, and I CAN keep all the shots downrange right now while standing. I hope to improve and one day be able to hit a target with it. :o

DavidAGO

[k in AR]

In our younger days we shot IHMSA. The last 10 targets were 200 yards away. We used a DW 357 Max, 8" barrel and a Ruger 357 also with an 8" barrel. Open sights on both (IHMSA rules). Only thing is I'm not sure how the silhouettes compare in size.

[MrBorland]

I'm more concerned with the maximum accuracy potential of a wheel gun in skilled hands, so I'd have to say very slow, deliberate fire, single-action.

A skilled wheelgunner would be impressively accurate in double action, too.

I've been shooting double action almost exclusively, but lately been working on shooting 1-handed, single action bullseye style. Below is a link to my contribution to the April Handgun Match on THR (5 rounds @ 10 yards) with an example of unsupported DA (2-handed) and SA (1-handed) shooting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5509068&postcount=15

Dang, you guys really make me wish I had access to longer ranges :mad:

[pendennis]

18 of 18 in a 12"x16" target @ 100yds. Colt Python, 6" bbl. 158gr JHP, WW296. The first two rounds were a little high, and the last 16 covered the mid-torso area.

Used it to prove that handguns are inherently accurate when coupled with the rest of the components (ammo, shooter).

[P-990]

Haven't tried it yet, but I can keep 10-for-10 on an IDPA silhouette out to 50 yards with a Glock 26, so I am positive I can do it DA with my S&W M-19.

Otherwise, I'd say 12-12, SA with a Weaver hold at 50 yards with my 6" 629, .44 Magnum, 240gr SWC reloads @ 1000 fps. Very big, easy to shoot wheelgun. I find I tend to plink at the 100-yard gong with it when I'm feeling sporty. :D

Actually, I may up and try this this weekend or next week sometime, with my 4" 19 shooting DA. Might be fun! ;)

[ATANRA]

S&W 629 44mag six inch barrel (no underlug) open sights 180gr federal hollow points 6 rounds (all it holds) standing two hand all 6 in the black silohette Torso and shoulders. Used the Elmer Kieth prescribed sighting and it worked Darn fine. :D

[45Marlin carbine]

S&W 625 all shots on an 8" steel disk @ 50 yds standing two hand hold. Hornady 200gr C/T slugs over Power Pistol.
5" bbl adjustable sights w/red front insert.

[Donn_N]

Ever heard of Elmer Keith?

[ATANRA]

I must add that I did not shoot a second cylinder I was not going to screw up an exceptional target ( may also be read as darn lucky day). 100 yds is where the skill and practice stops beyond that luck plays a roll.:D

[ATANRA]

Pardon me all to heck. I didnt realize the spelling police were working this forum.:o

[MEATSAW]

My wheelgun is a S&W Model 60 .357 2" barrel. The farthest I have shot at a target was at 50 ft. Using an FBI silhouette target I missed 7 out of 100. I haven't tried that again in a while though.

[Westcoaster]

Specifically, how far can you step back and still put a cylinder-full into an IDPA silhouette?


Fairly new to handguns (less than two years) so I don't know what IDPA is but I have been playing around at 100 yards with my Colt Anaconda.

Admittedly I am only getting 2 or 3 out of 6 on a 12"x18" target at 100 yards, but heck when I started that's where I was at 25 yards. At this point I can print 6 in a 4 inch circle regularly out to 25 yards, and 6 on the 8.5 x 11 target paper at 50 yards.

Kind of fun, although I never thought to try until I read an article about this Elmer Keith fellow who regularly shot 100 yards and further. After that I gave it a poke and have been reaching out since.

[RamSlammer]

S&W Mod 629 (modified) 6.5" bbl. . . . 80%+ hits all day long at 200m IHMSA Rams which are slightly larger than the typical IDPA target. (Of course that was 25 years ago with younger eyes - and non arthritic wrists.)

[Casimer]

I think the biggest barrier to shooting longer distances is psychological.

A few years ago I'd attended a Distinguished Revolver clinic in NJ. This is a competition where you shoot a stock revolver at 50 and 25yds using factory SWC's or RN's in 38spl. And it's one-handed shooting.

A lot of the shooters were really freaked-out about shooting to 50yds. They'd never shot a handgun that far. But after a few relays, and seeing that they were capable of getting their shots on-paper, most of these folks calmed down and started to get some decent scores.

50yds is a distance where the 38spl really shines, for target shooting. A moderate load is powerful enough that there isn't too much drop, but the recoil is still pretty mild.

[.357 mag]

On the bench I can shoot a ''real size'' squirrel targets at 100 yards 9 out of 10 times with my 66-2 4 inch w/ 158 grain .357's. off hand, haven't tried past 25 yards. I can hit a bowling pin at 25 yards DA all day long.

[troy_mclure]

with my ruger sbh 7.5"bbl, .44 mag, and open sights i can (could, havent shot it in a while) hit a paper plate with all 6 from a rest or shooting stick at 100yd.

[jdscholer]

My pistol gong is 14" (round) and at 100 yds, I'm around 50 to 80 percent with my 686 six inch 357. Standing two handed, single action. I'm shooting mostly double action lately, and getting better. jd

[Cult .44]

I don't shoot much at silhouettes but I've been practicing a fair bit 25 yard pistol scoring targets with my 5.5" SBH. I can't brag about groups but I'm rarely outside the target zone (standing, two-handed). I'm pretty sure I could hit a silhouette consistently at that range. The shooting range I frequent doesn't go beyond 25 yards but I doubt I'd be very good at this point from 50.

[jglsprings]

k in AR
In our younger days we shot IHMSA. The last 10 targets were 200 yards away. We used a DW 357 Max, 8" barrel and a Ruger 357 also with an 8" barrel. Open sights on both (IHMSA rules). Only thing is I'm not sure how the silhouettes compare in size.

RamSlammer
S&W Mod 629 (modified) 6.5" bbl. . . . 80%+ hits all day long at 200m IHMSA Rams which are slightly larger than the typical IDPA target. (Of course that was 25 years ago with younger eyes - and non arthritic wrists.)

I rememeber when I was a young man........ (Lord I sound like my grandpa)
My best was 6 in a row....... many, many, many years ago.

Dan Wesson - 8 inch - 44 mag

I always folded like a cheap suitcase on the line. Practice I was hell on wheels, under a little pressure - shook like a wet dog!!

I think that was one of the reasons that Cirillo wanted officers who shot in competition.

(Lord I look my grandpa!!)

[James K]

At one time, I could keep all my shots on a silhouette at 100 yds, shooting offhand, DA, with a 3" Model 36. (Shots too scattered to be called a "group", though.) I don't think I could do it now, and the range rules where I shoot now prohibit handguns at the 100 yard range.

Jim

[MLeake]

Casimer said, "I think the biggest barrier to shooting longer distances is psychological."

Generally speaking, I agree. However, I think wind can be a pretty good barrier, too, situationally dependent.

Cheers,
M

[kle]

how far have *I* done it? 50 yards, all shots into a B-6 target's aiming black (8" diameter circle, which should fit nicely into a silhouette), with open sights and red-dot sights, with wheelguns chambered in .22LR, .38SPL, .357 Magnum, and .45ACP, standing, unsupported, one-handed. All single-action, though--I shoot Bullseye competition, both in a league and at full 2700 matches, so I do it on an almost-daily basis (not on Tuesdays, when my local range is closed). Plus, my local indoor range doesn't go any further than 50 yards, so beyond that I don't know...

[Dismantler]

I shoot at old aluminum frying pans that I get at the dump. They make a gratifying ping when I hit them. :D

I shoot only SA at 25 yds. and out. I can hit at 40 yards with a Ruger Single Six in LR or Mag. I can hit with a Model 10 with standard or + p, also. 25 yrds is no big deal with any .38 snubby firing SA.

[srt 10 jimbo]

Can get a pretty good grouping at 75' with 22WMR Single Six.:)

[2DaMtns]

Some guy was on here once talking about getting 5 shots on an 8" pie plate at either 200 or 300 yards (I think he said 300) with his 460. Where's he at?

[Hammer It]

Hi
I shot my 4" Barrel Model 48 S&W which is in .22 W.M.R. at The man sized B-27 Target show at the 100 Yard Line. I used a sand Bag rest and held on the neck with Open sights. Five out of Six shots were in the Chest Kill Zone area as shown... Hammer It




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/B-27shotwith22Mag1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF1221.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/B-27Shotwith.jpg

[rauke]

Let me just say that I am familiar with Elmer Keith, and with his long-range sixgunning exploits!

It was his example, in part, that prompted me to open this thread.

Unfortunately, there is another, more serious, agenda behind this.

What I am going to say may not make sense to those of us accustomed to owning (and regularly using) .30-06’s and .50 BMG rifles.

We take it for granted that if our homes are ever threatened by BG’s armed with assault rifles, we can pull out our own lever-actions and/or semi-auto rifles and give back as good as (if not better than) we get.

However, there is at least one country I personally know of in which the average citizen is not allowed to own a rifle of any caliber greater than .22lr, but is permitted to own handguns in calibers up to (and including) .500 S&W.

When you happen to own, manage, or live on plantations covering vast tracts of land in such a country, and the bad guys come equipped with AK-47’s as standard, what are your options?

The way I see it,
1) You either try and fend them off with your .22’s, or
2) You buy several big-bore wheel guns and train to protect your self with those.

If you were in their shoes, you would probably be dead-set on becoming a first-rate, long-distance revolver shot---fast! Let’s just say that you would have very little other choice in the matter.

Thankfully, your posts are proving that long-range wheel gunning is a living art, and one that the average hand gunner can aspire to. I enjoyed pointing out your posts, especially those that recollected 200-yard shooting at ram silhouettes. These posts, and others like them, have encouraged a number of the besieged land owners in that country to consider purchasing powerful revolvers (some of them to be scope-mounted) to make up for the absence of proper rifles. (This is a bad compromise, at best, but is all that can be managed in an environment which outlaws proper rifles.)

Unfortunately, being able to shoot a revolver at long range is going to be a matter of personal survival for a number of good folk over there.

(With your indulgence, I will have to open a thread asking “What .22 rifle would you recommend for home defense?” or “How far do you shoot your .22 rifle?” next, in the appropriate Firing Line forum.)

Thank you for your responses!

[Radagast]

My first outing with my 4 inch model 66 I hit 4 out of 6 1/2 size rams at 100 meters, free standing, double action with 130 grain Federal FMJ. so I'm pretty sure I could manage a cylinder full into a full size paper target at that distance.

[jglsprings]

Excellent shooting, gentlemen!

Let me just say that I am familiar with Elmer Keith, and with his long-range sixgunning exploits!

It was his example, in part, that prompted me to open this thread.

Unfortunately, there is another, more serious, agenda behind this.

What I am going to say may not make sense

Well that thread took an unexpected turn............:rolleyes:

[rodfac]

I've got three of the old style 20# propane tanks that we use for targets here on our farm. The close in one is 50 yds and that's a relatively easy hit with about any pistol I own. The 2nd is out at 75 yds and it a bit more difficult, but offhand and with a 6" barrel it's 5 for 6 usually and that with a M19, M57, M25, and M29 Smiths. With Colt 7.5" bbled SAA, in .45 LC it's about the same.

The last tank is out at 200 yds on my hi-power practice berm. Sitting with my back against the porch supports, one or two out of six is the usual success rate after a walk-in to reestablish just how much front sight to hold up. It's pretty amazing to see those big slugs digging up the turf at that range. Even the misses are close enough to scare the daylights out of a bad guy at that range. And as Keith pointed out, it's a real test for ammunition quality. For those of you with access to a RR, rail tie plates, roughly 8X15" make wonderful handgun targets out to 100 yds or so.

Thirty years ago a buddy and I used to shoot down across a large Spokane, WA gravel pit. We could shoot out to 600+ yds there and I remember him lobbing .38 specials down that long alley from his snub nose Chief's Special. Car size rocks at that distance weren't entirely safe from him and as I recall, I had a tough time equaling his success with my 6" Ruger BH.

E. Keith in Sixguns has some interesting thoughts on the subject...well worth reading. Also in the emminently readable, Pistols by Harry Stebbins...a 1960 vintage tome that covered virtually all of the commercially available pistols and revolvers then available. If you ever get a chance, buy a copy. It's truly a great book on the short guns.

[chriske]

What's the size of such an IDPA silhouette exactly ?

[MrBorland]

What's the size of such an IDPA silhouette exactly ?

The "A-zone" is a circle with a diameter of 8". Outside that, and you get "points down". The entire torso, though is roughly 16" x 18".

Shown here on p.73: http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

[45Marlin carbine]

man that's a beautiful S&W hammerit.:)

[Hammer It]

man that's a beautiful S&W hammerit.

Hello 45 Marlin Carbine
I appreciate Your Kind words.:) It is a Four Screw Model that shipped in 1961. It Belonged to a buddy and I drove him Nut's to sell it to me as the Older No-Dash Models in this caliber with 4" Barrel do not come along often. It is one of my Favorites and as you can see is a Pure Tack Driver.. Hammer It

[Hardcase]

One of our silhouette shooters at the range used to hit about half the targets at 100 yards with, I *think* a .22 Single Six. He's switched to a Henry .22 rifle now and every now and then gets 8 out of 10 down at that range.

There you go, covered the revolver AND rifle!

[armsmaster270]

I've never shot IDPA but at 100yds I can put all six rounds from ny 4" model 19 into the chest of a B-27 Silhouette near the heart using 145gr .357 Silvertips

[GeauxTide]

100 yards with my 45LC Bisley

[brian45auto]

The "A-zone" is a circle with a diameter of 8".

we have an 8" steel plate.
50yrds no problem. never tryed farther than that.

[GP100man]

howdy all :
i live on a farm in the low lands of coastal nc & at the edge of a feild is an old truck rim 20" i think & we walk hand gun fire out to it ( clanging ) it every once in awhile , alot of fun in the spring as now the feild is disked up & a puff of dust kiks up on the way!!!never measured it .
uspsa 18 shots timed, 6 standing , 6 kneelin, 6 prone, at 40 yds i hit 14 on the paper in 28.4sec with a 7.5" Redhawk 44mag & hks speed loaders.

GP100man:cool:

[UnderDawgAl]

Heck, that ain't nuthin'.

With my Colt Detective Special 2-incher, I can shoot a quarter at 200 yards...and leave two dimes and a nickel.

[44 AMP]

Because I don't shoot (hardly ever) that kind of target.

But I can consistantly ring the 250yd gong at my local rifle range. The gun (my favorite for fun) is a Ruger new model Blackhawk, 7.5" barrel. .45 Colt. The load is a 250gr SWC (hard cast) 10.0gr Unique. This clocks about 1100fps from my gun. Shooting position is standing, offhand, one handed (left hand in back pocket,:D). I have been shooting this gun, and this load since 1983, at ranges from 0 to 250yds+. And I generally hit what I aim at.

Open sights. (stock sights)

I am also able to use other guns to match this feat, but it may take me a few rounds to "get the range". One friend gave me his .357 Sig to try this with. It took me 4 rounds to hit the plate, with a gun, and a caliber I had never shot before.

For really long range, Elmer Keith's techniques (described in detail in his book Sixguns) are very useful.

Using slow deliberate animed fire, one can hit targets at distances most people find unbelievable. I can do it, and so could you, if you just practice a bit. The trick is learning where you can see the bullet impacts, and figuring out just how much front sight to hold up as you walk your rounds on target.

For something like a 9mm auto, you need to hold up the front sight to about half an inch back on the slide! But you can make hits at 200yds with one of these too! The difficult thing is windage, especially with autos.

Fixed sights are not a problem, and a good trigger helps a lot.

[m&p45acp10+1]

split 4 of 6 playing cards with a 4 inch Colt Python 357 mag using Wichester white box 38 spcl. time was 7 seconds one handed at 20 feet. Was shootin a whole lot then. As far as distance killed a hog at 100 yards. 500 S@W mag. Scoped, shooting off of a shootin' stick. Hog was 450 pound sow. Droped it right where she was stading. Ammo was a hand load my friend loaded so I can give no specs on it. The hog was mighty tasty.

[woad_yurt]

6.5" .22 WMR Single Six
8 3/8" Model 14-4
7.5" H&R 676 .22 WMR

With any of the above guns, I can pop Evian bottles at 100 yards.

[RGS]

We shoot field pistol silhouette at our range. Rams are the farthest out at 100yds. All shooting is off hand, no fair to touch or lean on the bench.

Personally, if I can knock 5 out of the 10 down, I've had a good round. Sometimes I do better and other times worse.

I do not like the idea of defending against a rifle with a pistol. The rifleman just has too much going for him. Now imagine two or three riflemen (or more) working together against one handgunner. Much better to yield the field and live another day. If there is a way out, take it.

[AZAK]

I can shoot my 22 revolver one mile. That's what it says on the ammo box. Caution. Range: 1 mile.

You can add 50% more to your distance just by changing your .22lr brand; I have here a Winchester box of .22lrs that says, "CAUTION: Dangerous within 1 1/2 miles."

[rauke]

My thinking, too. The odds are lopsided.

Thankfully, the land owners are going to have a few things going for them.

Good cover, for one. Their farm hands will also be armed, either with .22 rifles or handguns.

I'm hoping it works out.

By the way, I opened the .22 rifle thread in "The Art of the Rifle" and am getting mixed responses.

Cheers!

[MEATSAW]

I have here a Winchester box of .22lrs that says, "CAUTION: Dangerous within 1 1/2 miles."

OMG. I wonder what CCI Velociraptor can do! Maybe 2 miles? 2 1/2? At that point it you are like a one man .22 cal artillery piece. LOL

[ZeSpectre]

How far can you shoot your favorite wheel gun?
Specifically, how far can you step back and still put a cylinder-full into an IDPA silhouette?

I don't know about an IDPA silhouette, never tried it. But I have a Ruger Security Six with a 6" barrel and on a good day, using a two handed, freestanding stance, I've been able to typically hit 4 or 5 out of 6 clays sitting on the ground at 150 yards. On an average day maybe 3 out of 6.

[MrBorland]

I just got back from the range, and put all 50 rounds inside the torso of a 1:5 silhouette at 20 yards, with room to spare, unsupported double action, so I'm guessing I could put a cylinder full into a standard silhouette at 100-130 yards.

[Dingoboyx]

44 mags, 5.5" stock sights and loads are full case (less projectile depth) of trail Boss & a 200 gr projectile, I regularly shoot (standing, 2 hands, no lean on or rest) a 2' x 3' steel plate at 100 meters (5 out of 5 shots) and a 3' x 4' plate at 200 meters (4 out of 5 shots) :D

Stuns a few people (I love it when folks say HG's are no use after 25 meters):eek:

The proof is in the pudding, baby :D

[P-990]

44 mags, 5.5" stock sights and loads are full case (less projectile depth) of trail Boss & a 200 gr projectile, I regularly shoot (standing, 2 hands, no lean on or rest) a 2' x 3' steel plate at 100 meters (5 out of 5 shots) and a 3' x 4' plate at 200 meters (4 out of 5 shots)

Stuns a few people (I love it when folks say HG's are no use after 25 meters)

The proof is in the pudding, baby

LOL!! You're people are more generous than the ones I usually meet. Most of the folks I run in to will hold out their arms and say, "Past that and it's murder". Doesn't help them when they have a hard time hitting a full-sized silhouette past 20 feet anyway...

I remember we used to have a gong about 2-2 1/2' round at 100 yards on our rifle range. I used to practice on it with my Glock 17. One day a couple of guys were shooting at it with scoped, highpower rifles from the bench. They went 3 for 4 or 5 and were all high fives. I stepped up with the Glock, took a good 2-handed hold, and started firing: POP! POP! POP! When I went 8 for 10 and walked off, they packed up and left... :D

[James K]

Those laws are sort of the reverse of most places. What is the definition of pistol and what are the import laws?

That sounds like the perfect milieu for something like those Romanian AK pistols (7.62x39 or 5.56) I see in Shotgun News.* Essentially they are AK-47s with no shoulder stock and a short barrel. There also have been similar pistols based on the AR-15. By US law, if it doesn't have a shoulder stock, it is a pistol, but I don't know about the laws in that country.

*www.jgsales.com

Jim

[ZeSpectre]

Brief off topic rant.
The proof is in the pudding
Why do people say that? It makes no sense! The actual phrase is...
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

End Rant.

[madmo44mag]

I can't say I ever would shoot IDPA with my 44 mag Ruger Blackhawk with a 10.2 BULL barrel but I use to deer hunt with it and loaded with a 180gr JHP @ 1840 fps from a rest I could hit POA at 100 yards with all 6 rounds and open sights.

[2DaMtns]

For the same reason people that Darth Vader says, "Luke, I'm your father," and the Hannibal Lecter says, "Hello, Clarice," in the movies. Just something that has gotten confused and misspoken so many times that it has become the norm.

[jglsprings]

Brief off topic rant.

Quote:
The proof is in the pudding

Why do people say that? It makes no sense! The actual phrase is...
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

End Rant.

Remember, it's two of the green pills and one of the yellow ones. When you get them backwards it makes you a little tense. :D

Besides, I thought the proof was in the barrel. ;)

[ZeSpectre]

Yeah I know, too much coffee this morning :D

[hardluk1]

An 30 year old 357 Dan Wesson with 8" barrel and a red dot scope will still group 3" 100 yard groups with winchester 158 grain softies.

[feets]

My Vaquero in 45 Colt running cowboy loads is good for bowling pins out to 200 yards.
It's pretty easy to shoot tall vertical targets with a revolver. Simply line up the front sight on the target and work your elevation. :D

[srt 10 jimbo]

Depends on the size of the Target.:D

[Black_Sheep]

All time for me was offhand, 100 yards, shooting a 6" GP-100. It took several shots to figure out the right hold over, the front sight covered the whole target @ 100 yards. The guy that convinced me I could do it (nationally ranked silouette shooter) was making the same shot offhand with a 3" model 29 Smith & Wesson. So much for short barrels being "inaccurate"...

[sixgunluv]

Quote:
Brief off topic rant.

Quote:
The proof is in the pudding

Why do people say that? It makes no sense! The actual phrase is...
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

End Rant.
Remember, it's two of the green pills and one of the yellow ones. When you get them backwards it makes you a little tense.

Besides, I thought the proof was in the barrel.

This phrase like many others may have evolved into shortened slang.:D
For example: This pudding is very good! and now? This puddin's tha ****!

Oh yea my favorite wheel gun. The Ruger Super Blackhawk 10.5 in .44mag The only thing i'd like to refine is the front sight so that I can get a more precise aiming point. I like the front sight blades on some of the BFR's. May switch to something like that with a v-notch rear.

[Dingoboyx]

Git your cotton pickin' eyeballs offa my puddin'..... git your own :D

and just remember, you can't have your puddin' & drink it too :eek::D

[TEXASFIVEGUN]

Sitting with my hands between my legs I would be a cold beer I could do it at 300 yards, with luck and a few trys maybe 500 yards. Standing, off hand, two handed, 200 yards, slow fire and little or no wind.

Watch my 5 part video series on youtube, its on long range revolver shooting with iron sights.

( http://www.youtube.com/user/texasfivegun )

Take some liquid paper, a needle, a brass "tooth brush" and a beach chair
if you can find one.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/TEXAS/keithfrontsight.jpg

Use the liquid paper on your front sight. Make a line with the needle to use as a reference and brush of the
dried paper with the brass brush to start over if your marks are wrong or when your finished.

The chair I am talking about puts your butt about 4" off the ground and lets you lean back. You pull your legs up
put your hands/wrists between your knees. It works better "much better" for me than a bench rest or any thing else.

I have a Caldwell HAMMR machine rest and I can out shoot it with my chairs.
You must have "0" flinch for this, a good spotter helps and if you can get the sun behind you the bullets are easy to see in flight.

You may run out of front sight with a long barrel, short to medium barrels and tall front sights are easier to work with.
I have never shot a 500 or 460 S&W but we have found with 500 & 475 Linebaughs, 414 & 445 Supermags, 454 Casull, and
44 Remington Magnum. A heavy for caliber cast lead bullet works best. A gas check is easier to see in flight. A high velocity
is not needed. About 1200 FPS is what we use the most.

If I can help PM me and I will give you my phone # and email.

Good Shootin and Good Luck! Chad

[cracked91]

back when I still had my S&W 66-5 4", I could consistently hit clay pigeons at about 50 yards, maybe miss 2 shots outta 6

[NoirFan]

I can't answer the question directly because I don't know how big an IDPA target is, but on an average day I shoot a 6-inch spread at 25 yards. At 50 yards I almost never miss the 12-inch gong. That's standing, Weaver stance, slow single action.

I use a S&W 19, 4-inch barrel, usually shooting Mastercast wadcutters. Sights are the factory all-black iron sights.

[Emerson]

Heck, a better question to ask us old guys is: " How far away do you have to be from your front sight before it looks sharp?"

In my case the answer is: "About twice as long as my arm"

[rodfac]

Rauke....sorry for the late reply...this is really an explanation on how we, (my sons and I) do it. Firing the piece, while attending to all the basics of hand gun shooting is one aspect of long range accuracy....the gun's inherent accuracy with the ammunition at hand is an entirely different question. Good loads are essential...attention to their construction, vital...that said...

I don't consider myself an excellent handgun shooter. One of my sons is, self-taught and a US Marine MP as well. He, his brother and I have all been for the most part self-taught.

I learned trigger control while shooting small bore and hi power in the military. I found handgun shooting more difficult by a factor of 10 at that time and still do. USAF SMSGT Ed McFarland taught us trigger control with a .45 1911-A1 by balancing a dime on the front sight. Laid flat across the front sight, we held and dry fired trying not to knock that dime off.

Sight alignment, was taught by turning the targets around so that the bull would not show...we were shooting at a blank piece of paper... and inevitably we found that we shot better groups. The secret if there is one, is that a blank piece of paper forced us to look at and SEE the front sight only. We kept perfect sight alignment and shot the good groups. It helped. But there is always the tendency to squeeze faster...ie jerk the shot...when the sight target alignment was 'just right'.

Sgt McFarland's answer was to have us hold the piece in a target stance but not fire, not even dry fire, just hold on the target and watch the natural wobble area. Invariably, my 'hold' would stay within the black. Percentage-wise, if I could just allow the hammer to fall at any time during my normal wobble area, the bullet would hit in the black. His point was that trying to assist that process, speed it up if you will, would turn into a jerked trigger eventually. The gun weighs roughly 40 oz ,and a match trigger must lift 4.5 lbs. Jerking 4.5 lbs to set off the trigger must....move the 40 oz gun.

McFarland's last bit of training was grip....he preached a strong grip...like the one you give your dad or a friend that you haven't seen in years...strong..but not white knuckle. For me and for most of us on the teams, a strong grip was essential for any gun over .22. The heavier the recoil, the more the gun is affected by a changing grip. As you know, you can march your shots all over the target by subtle changes to your grip. In competition where there is time, we always pushed the piece into the web of the shooting hand using the other hand. IN other words, I picked up the gun with my left hand and placed it, pushed really into the web of my right hand..the same each time, the same each time, the same each time...sorry...Sgt McFarland is playing his tune again in my memory. With a combat stance, where the draw/fire time is limited, the rules are still the same. Only the time is shorter to get it all done. I draw, or try to, the same way each and every time.

Shooting two handed adds another variable to the "grip" question. If I don't think about it, my two handed grip is far greater than when shooting one handed. A sure way to move the groups around. I have to concentrate to keep the left hand there only to support, not intensify, the grip provided by my right hand. It's there just to decrease my natural wobble area. Two hands also move the front sight closer to my eyes which, if I'm not careful, allows me to accept less than perfect sight alignment. Like McFarland used to say, "it's the FRONT SIGHT and only the FRONT SIGHT, that must be in complete focus." The target and to a lesser extent, the rear sight are a blur throughout the shot.

With the big Colt, I have a far better "feel" for the right grip than I do with a single action or one of the Smiths. Too, I can align the Colt, left or right, far better. With a revolver, I'm better with the vertical alignment...in limited time shooting. Cooper called the left and right alignment, "index of deflection" if I remember correctly, and that old man knew what he was talking about.

Nowadays, I shoot here on the farm, alone, my boys are long gone but each Christmas we get together for the family pistol matches...and I haven't won in 6 or 8 years now, even when I force them to use MY GUNS. The former Marine, especially, is really good. Like "Sundance" in the movie with Neuman, he's better if he "moves" from the leather and doesn't have time to think about it. The Beretta 92 (like his M-9 Marine issue pistol) is the best for him, but he's almost as good with the 1911.

For load development, or when showing off just how good a particular gun is, I shoot from a reclining, back rest position. My knees pulled up with the gun pushed forward to arm's length between my knees...a position sure to p--s off whoever is doing the laundry, the black smudge of powder stain on the left knee is almost impossible to remove. The position is a strong one, advocated by Keith in "Sixguns" for long range work. I find it equally good for load development and generally shoot better groups from that position then off sandbags on the bench. It allows me to get the front sight as far from my eyes as is possible given my arm length and I can better assume the all important same position, and grip for each shot. On a good day, with the sun behind me and thoroughly blackened sights, good loads and a decent trigger, my eyes are capable of giving me 1 to 1 1/4" gps at 25 yds with a handgun and iron sights (my wife has a Crimson Trace on her Chief's Special that's deadly out as far as either of can see it but I wouldn't put a scope on a handgun on a bet...get a rifle for that if you must). I've got a few that will do that...two Rugers, several Smiths and one Colt 1911 Combat Commander.

I've shot since I was 12 years old, rifles back then, and still consider myself a rifle shooter. I got into handguns when I was in the service, and liked them for they're more difficult challenge and what they could teach me that was useful to make me a better rifleman. That's right at 42 years of pistol shooting, but it took many years of re-learning the basic lessons taught by Sgt McFarland. Had I really listened, and dutifully applied his techniques each and every time I picked up a short gun, I'd have progressed a lot farther. How long would a really attentive shooter take to significantly improve his ability...I'd say six months of 2x a week shooting with a lot of dry fire in between and he should see a vast improvement. It's the attention to detail, with no laziness that's the key factor in just how long it will take. As in everything, the devil's in the details.

Best regards, and again, my regrets for not being more prompt...Rodfac

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/Targets/Ruger44Spl65231.jpg

[tmd11111]

I can shoot my 22 revolver one mile. That's what it says on the ammo box. Caution. Range: 1 mile.

Is that offhand or on a benchrest? :rolleyes:

[rodfac]

tmd1111, if you're asking regarding my pic...the upper gp was shot offhand at 20 yds, the lower was shot sitting at 25 yds, knees pulled up and the gun extended between my upright knees. A great position to check the accuracy of your loads + get some sight, grip, and trigger control practice. Regards, Rodfac Whoops...just re-read your included statement...

[tmd11111]

I wasn't referring to any picture. I was referring to the comment someone made thats on the side of a box of .22 ammo a few pages back. It was suppose to a little satire and good natures humor thats all...

[Topstrap1]

Good posts on this, like most have said handguns will shoot much better than most nonhandgunners will believe. Silhouette really got the masses into the long range handgunning and hunting even though Elmer Keith and others had been doing it for some time but no one was paying much attention to it. Here is one picture I took after a day at my range. It's not really that impressive but does have 10 shots in that grouping which looks larger than it really is cause of the bullet spray from the impacts. But that same gun has no problem hitting the really small targets behind the ram which range from 2 inch to 5 inches in size. We used to be able to do that with open sights but age and not being able to see the sights clearly put a damper on that fun.

Topstrap

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6536/freedomgroupbe6.jpg

[mrt949]

Ruger security six 357 mag 100 meters ihmsa field pistol.dan wesson 357 max 200 meters .standing . rams.

[mec]

With a long barreled N frame or Super Blackhawk from an informal rest, I can "kill" a deer silhouette at 100 yards. Unfortunately, this does not translate to reliable accuracy on real deer.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19271&stc=1&d=1151933154

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48058&stc=1&d=1244412143
50 yards, two hands standing double action. This thing is about half carbine.

[Daryl]

How far can I shoot my favorite wheel gun?

Well, I shot mine off the edge of the world one time, and the bullet went all the way to....well, you know where!

How far is that?

:D

Daryl

[maustypsu]

I feel comfortable shooting at game at 75 yards with my 7 1/2 inch super redhawk. I can hit a torso sized target at 100 yards.

[rodfac]

Mec...great shootin' with that...is it an 1860 Army? Nice work...what did you stoke it with? I'm curious about the ball size, powder and use of a wad or chrisco. I've got an 1862 pocket navy that does well, albeit in .36 caliber. Regards, Rodfac

[mec]

It's surprisingly easy to do that with a good replica. Most Ubertis come with light trigger pulls now- or at least the ones from two or three years ago do. Loads vary and I suspect that one was the set measure equivalent of 28 grains of pyrodex P and a 454 round ball.( measure throws at or close to 28 grains of fffg black powder- pyrodex weighs less at the same volume but it doesn't matter) Grease over the ball though this does little to keep the fouling soft.

Some percussion revolvers do well with pyrodex- others, for no reason I can isolate, produce hang fires. FFFG black powder ignites very well. When I load the balls directly over powder, I clean the bore after every cylinder full.

some underwads work very well. Not much luck with wonder wads but the treated fiber wads from , I believe, Track of the Wolf, will keep the bore clear of fouling for extended shooting. Accuracy between the two methods is the same. Ive also found that different powder charges ranging from 25- 35 grains in the 44 and `18-25 in the navy length 36s generally produce the same levels of accuracy. With the Pocket Police or Pocket navy, I've used 15-16 grains with good accuracy.

[Evyl Robot]

On a really, really good day, I can shoot 10-inch groups at ~120-yards with my 6.5-inch M29. I only wish I could do it reliably. :o

--Michael