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bababooey32
April 24, 2009, 12:30 PM
Anyone been through the process of buying a suppressor here in TX? Specifically in Travis County? Wondering how willing the local LE officials have been to sign off on citizens purchasing them. Any pointers or tips appreciated...

Willie Lowman
April 24, 2009, 12:53 PM
I am not from Texas but I have heard from some people who are that if you are anywhere near the Dallas-Fort Worth area, you have to go the trust route.

You can always do what I did when I got into NFA, just go ask 'em. Be polite, be prepared to explain, and if all else fails, look up a good trust layer.

paull
April 24, 2009, 02:07 PM
baba...
I live in NFA friendly Brazoria County and still am glad I went the "LLC-route".
The added expense was worth it, considering the fingerprint and CLEO sign-off avoidance.
My time has value, I'd rather not spend it wandering about.
p;)

hoytinak
April 24, 2009, 11:29 PM
Contact www.talonarms.com, I'm sure they'll be happy to help you out. ;)

05kas05
April 25, 2009, 12:25 AM
you can talk to the guys at-the gun store-in ceder park tx 512-335-5534 they are a class 3 firearms dealer i am sure they would be able to awnser your questions.

David Hineline
April 26, 2009, 12:45 AM
Might contact http://www.johnsguns.us and see if they have done any transfers into your county.

JohnKSa
April 26, 2009, 01:30 AM
...I have heard from some people who are that if you are anywhere near the Dallas-Fort Worth area, you have to go the trust route.That's true of Dallas county, but the DFW area is pretty large and encompasses parts of at least 10 counties. I haven't done a survey, or anything like that, but I know that at least a couple of those counties have Sheriffs who will sign.

Syntax360
April 27, 2009, 11:07 AM
Another happy DFW resident that went the trust route... JohnKSa is definitely correct that depending on your exact location, political climates shift drastically and one may or may not be able to get a CLEO sign-off, but why mess with it altogether? The trust method allows you to avoid that hassle, as well as fingerprinting and photos...

flight954
April 27, 2009, 12:27 PM
Contact www.talonsarms.com, I'm sure they'll be happy to help you out.

+1

Hellbilly5000
April 27, 2009, 08:46 PM
Talk to GT distributors off brockton and Burnet
Take Burnet north from 183 then one block after breaker hang a right on brockton and its on your right hand side about 100 yards in.
They sell specificity to LEO and Commissioned security only so I am sure they can point you in the right direction

NukeLabTech
May 28, 2009, 11:53 AM
The NFA trust is the way to go in Travis county.

The trust is the simplest, most trouble free methodfor owning NFA gear in Texas. It is private, doesn't have to be registered anywhere in the state and has no monthly reporting requirements.

Two names for trusts: Sean Cody in Houston and David Goldman and his guntrust lawyer network are doing NFA trusts.

waterhouse
May 28, 2009, 01:00 PM
I know this is from last month, but if you still need the info . . .

The Travis County Sheriff's Office will happily sign off on all NFA paperwork. I actually went in the first time, but the past 4 times I've just mailed in the forms and they sign them and mail them back. It takes about a week door to door.

PM if you need specific names of who to contact.

If you need a local dealer Steve Ou is in Austin and Chuck Tooke is in Round Rock. I've used both in the past and been pleased with both.

bababooey32
June 19, 2009, 10:20 AM
Thanks guys...good info here!!!

eddiejoe333
June 23, 2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not from Tx, but I hope to move there VERY soon. Any tips, advice, or other helpful info anyone has, please PM me.

Anyway, my question is this: If you go the route of LE sign-off, and are unsuccessful, can you still do the trust route? Sorta like asking mommy, and then daddy? Also, do you typically get your threaded barrel and suppressor from the suppressor mfr?

Joat
June 24, 2009, 07:55 AM
Asking for CLEO signoff and not getting it is usually the first step in getting a trust.:D

I live in Liberty county (east of Houston) the prior sherriff refused to sign NFA paperwork so I contacted Sean Cody (http://www.houstonattorney.org/ or www.TexasNFATrust.com) Now I don't worry about it, I just send in the trust documents with the form 1 or 4 and wait.
If you go the trust route, either use an attorney to draft it for you as trusts are routinely being reviewed by ATF legal now or, if you choose to use willmaker or legal zoom to form your trust, at least have it reviewed by an attorney. It is a small price to pay.

There are multiple manufacturers of threaded barrels. Or any COMPETENT machinist can thread a barrel. The important thing is that the threads are concentric to the bore, not the outside of the barrel. Some suppressor manufacturers will thread barrels (YHM in particular) and repair/replace one of their suppressors damaged by a baffle strike on that barrel at no/minimal charge.

Joat

BigDaddy
July 28, 2009, 09:34 AM
I understand the Travis county sheriff will not sign off on supressors ( I live here too). He will, however sign off on SBR's. Tom at Heritage Firearms is a good one to ask.

--Dave

p99guy
July 28, 2009, 12:53 PM
Ahhh Big Daddy don't you just love when they feel they can pick and choose what a citizen can have lol In some ways thats worse than just a flat NO.
The one time I was in that situation with a chief of police(Haltom City) It felt really good to inform him he hadnt stopped a thing, and now i will have a house full just cause ya said i couldnt.(I was a 01 FFL at the time and simply
sent in the extra paperwork/money to become a machinegun dealer(SOT taxpayer)

jmorris
July 29, 2009, 08:59 AM
If you go the trust route, either use an attorney to draft it for you as trusts are routinely being reviewed by ATF legal now or, if you choose to use willmaker or legal zoom to form your trust, at least have it reviewed by an attorney.

I used willmaker, as they review and kick back what they won't accept why pay $600 for what the NFA branch will do for free?

Joat
July 29, 2009, 09:12 PM
Maybe because I don"t want to wait the additional 9 - 16 weeks after submitting my forms a second time after it has been denied?:confused:
If someone is charging you $600.00 for a trust, you need to shop around!

Joat

p99guy
July 29, 2009, 11:54 PM
Ya know...Willmaker is perfectly acceptable to ATF, as long as you fill it out right, and keep it simple. Mine is for my NFA stuff only...there isnt houses,barns and 20 cousins named( cause me wants ma whole neiborhood to be on my trust lol so' they can deerhunt wif my mo-chine-guns)


As long as you can read directions, and keep it simple..there is nothing wrong with it. OOOOOH but a lawyer gives 50 years of free updates with the 600.00
fee! Update what?? Once written it don't have to be rewritten again every other year unless a succsessor or beneficiarary dies before you do..easy to fix if it happens.

jmorris
July 30, 2009, 09:47 AM
Once written it don't have to be rewritten again every other year unless a succsessor or beneficiarary dies before you do..easy to fix if it happens.

I have to constantly update my trust, as they require you list the holdings of the trust in the schedule A upon approval. I guess if you quit buying toys you won’t have to add anything but where is the fun in that?

p99guy
July 30, 2009, 10:42 AM
schedule A additions don't require a trip to the lawyer....its also ok to have the new NFA item listed on the sced A when you send in the form 4s for it.
(you don't have to wait to get the stamp back) as the trust allready owns it, if your mailing the papers.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 30, 2009, 12:09 PM
Quicken and other form trusts can easily create problems the ATF may not spot. David Goldman has published a nicely detailed article on Quicken NFA trusts and PA law that highlights some of those issues. Like most things, it all depends on how complex you want it. An NFA trust can be as simple as an NEF single-shot shotgun or it can be a Tromix AK conversion :)

While I know Sean Cody's work is good, for those of you in the DFW area, I also do Wills and Trusts now. A simple, straight-forward NFA trust won't cost you anywhere near $600 - the problem is more people think they can get by with a simple NFA trust than is actually the case.

Update what?? Once written it don't have to be rewritten again every other year unless a succsessor or beneficiarary dies before you do..easy to fix if it happens.

Easy to fix if:

A) It was written properly to begin with
B) You or your computer program correctly spotted all the potential legal issues in creating your trust (For example: Is your spouse a co-trustee? What happens in a divorce under your trust?)

As far as updates, if you are paying money up front and I am doing changes for free, I can guarantee any document I draft is going to minimize the amount of changes requiring my input.

Here is a good earlier thread with a link to the Goldman article:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334393

p99guy
July 30, 2009, 08:38 PM
Sorry Bart, As an officer of the court, and working out of a courthouse, to where I can walk into the DA's office or any number of private legal offices around the town square and ask at lenth about such matters...I feel completely ok with my lowly Quicken model ( I also know quite well how the "culture" of the Legal biz works after over 20 years of it lol)

Joat
July 30, 2009, 09:36 PM
I didn't say that you had to have it written by an attorney, what I said wasif you choose to use willmaker or legal zoom to form your trust, at least have it reviewed by an attorney.

I, personally, felt it more prudent to have mine drawn up by an attorney after trying the willmaker option and totally confusing myself:D. Your comfort level will probably be different than mine.

Joat

Bartholomew Roberts
July 31, 2009, 08:09 AM
As an officer of the court, and working out of a courthouse, to where I can walk into the DA's office or any number of private legal offices around the town square and ask at lenth about such matters

Yes, and as a lawyer, I always give my top-notch advice to co-workers/acquaintances who stroll into my office looking for free legal advice. ;) Actually, I do always use my best efforts regardless of the client; but you can bet if I am answering questions for free, I keep the answer very narrowly focused and do not go looking for ways to expand my responsibilities.

Here are just a few of the issues mentioned by the Goldman article to consider with Quicken (http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/3/3/can-i-use-quicken-will-and-trust-maker-for-my-gun-nfa-trust):

1. Quicken never updates its language. If one of its forms is later proved invalid in a court battle, you won't even know it happened, let alone know what language needs to be changed in the trust.

2. Quicken itself advises you to have your form trust reviewed by an attorney.

3. Quicken says you must register your trust with the local court. In Texas, this is not true. You do not need to record your trust. This doesn't have any negative effect on your trust; other than if you follow Quicken's advice you have just made your NFA Trust and its contents a matter of public record when you didn't need to do that.

Take a look at the article, there are more than a few issues that pop up with any form trust.

I feel completely ok with my lowly Quicken model

Well, I'm glad you FEEL ok; but are you actually ok would be my main concern? Quicken might work fine for your needs. It might also have some serious problems. Without knowing more, I couldn't say either way. I'm sure the Quicken trust is sufficient to actually get the NFA-item into your hands about 90% of the time. Whether it creates more issues further down the road depends on your family and relationships as much as it does on how well-written the trust is. If the person designated to determine incapacity isn't going to use their power to remove you from your own trust, then it doesn't really matter whether the document was drafted so that it allows that.

Having an attorney review the trust is not a bad idea, especially for someone with such free and easy access to legal expertise as yourself. Even for those of us that have to pay for it, you aren't looking at a huge expense - and in most cases setting up the trust right in the first place is a one-time charge. Let's say you did pay $600 for an NFA trust (which would be pretty outrageous if all it covered was a simple, straightforward NFA trust with no other items); but that the trust was set up right and addressed all your concerns. A single transferrable Cobray M10 runs about $5,000. How many NFA items would you have to own before you started feeling real good about that initial investment?

p99guy
July 31, 2009, 12:46 PM
Exactly as expected...I would have been disappointed had you took any other tome with the answer.

JohnKSa
July 31, 2009, 09:46 PM
A friend of mine recently purchased some suppressors and went the trust route. I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with him at length and left the conversation with three very strong impressions:

1. The trust route has a lot of advantages that I was completely unaware of.
2. There are a good number of minor and not so minor issues that need to be addressed that I had never and would never have thought of myself.
3. If I ever decide to get a suppressor or machinegun I will be talking to a lawyer about a trust.

Tiger-Mule
August 25, 2009, 08:08 PM
Sean Cody does a good job.

It worked for me in Hardin county (North of Beaumont)

AaronCoady
December 14, 2009, 07:41 PM
I know an Attorney in Houston the specializes in NFA Trusts, PM me if you would like the information.

Thank you.

jestertoo
December 15, 2009, 07:01 PM
There's a LOT of miss-information above.

1) Travis Co. Sheriff Greg Hamilton WILL sign off on anything. Go drop your paperwork off with Jessica Sammons. Both are very NFA friendly. Make a copy of your DL and CHL if you have it. It speeds things up.

2) Williamson Co. will NOT sign off on several types of title2 items, if any. Trust or LLC is your only way.

3) I have an NFA friendly Lawyer in Austin that charges $250 for NFA specific trusts. Email me for details. It includes specific NFA language, beneficiaries, trustee usage, etc. If you're in Houston, call Sean Cody.

4) Spreadfire (steve ou), Chucks Class 3 (C. Tooke), SchluderShots (Bruce Schluderman),and "The Gun Store" (David ??) are the only 4 03SOT's in the Austin area I know of. All are trustworthy people but TGS is the only store with inventory. None of the other gunstores around town really seem to know much about NFA, Trust or LLC info.

ETA: Sportsman's Finest is an 02SOT (manufacturer) who also carries inventory. They are very pricey for transfers and purchases, but have some cool toys like the Anzio 20mm and dual 50cal. The owner does it as a hobby is my understanding.