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johnwilliamson062
April 23, 2009, 01:42 PM
Bought a T/C Encore frame today. GOt it at a pretty good price, not amazing, but not bad either. Saved about $100 over guying it new.

It is in good shape except for some surface rust.
I pan to take a brass bore brush and get rid of the rust.

My question is, s there anything I can put on it that rusted spots that will stop them from rusting again? I plan on using greasing the internals and wiping the whole thing with rem oil, but is there anything better to do?

Horseman
April 23, 2009, 04:51 PM
You don't need to do much other than use a product that protects better than Rem Oil. I've done my own corrosion tests for almost 6 years on dozens of products. You need to use a good one in a situation where you've had rust in the past. I'm recommending Breakfree CLP(originally invented to prevent flashrusting by a plating company) Corrosion-X(one of my favorites, non-toxic, and low odor, no Teflon safe for bores.) G96 Gun treatment.

Use a wet oil rather than the wax like products Eezox or Birchwood Casey Sheath/Barricade in areas where you've had rust in the past.

DO NOT use steel wool to remove the rust. It will embed in stainless and rust rapidly. The brass bristle brush or Flitz metal polish will work. Flitz is easier to blend in the slightly shinier spot to the rest of the receiver.

grymster2007
April 23, 2009, 07:28 PM
Stainless steel wool might be worth a try and it would possibly be easier to blend than the brass bore brush.

Tom2
April 23, 2009, 07:56 PM
I would try some metal polish on the thing. If it left stains the polish won't fix you are gonna just have to go the refinishing route, which presumably is working the surface down to fresh stainless below the rust marks. I have found a silicone cloth is sufficient on stainless guns but mine don't get rid hard and put away wet.

johnwilliamson062
April 23, 2009, 08:00 PM
I have found remoil works very well as long as I do not touch the metal of the firearm after applying it. Especially on the outer surface. Actually I am using the Hoppes version of the stuff, but I assume it is pretty much the same.

I have no doubt CLP works better, but it seems to have gone with all the ammo at my local shops. I intend to pick up a bit from Midway next time I purchase.

Bill DeShivs
April 23, 2009, 08:37 PM
Steel wool will not imbed in stainless guns. Simply flush it off with WD 40, and wipe dry. If steel wool fibers are left ON an unprotected gun, they can rust and discolor the stainless. Steel wool fibers are electrostatically, and sometimes magnetically attracted to the stainless-but they do not imbed. Just clean them off and you'll be fine.

Horseman
April 23, 2009, 08:47 PM
I have found remoil works very well as long as I do not touch the metal of the firearm after applying it. Especially on the outer surface.

Yes. If you are diligent about applying it regularly it is nice because it's so clean. 50% mineral spirits according to Remington's MSDS. That makes it a very clean oil that will never gum. It is however possibly the worst product I've ever tested at preventing rust. WD40, Hoppes 9(solvent, not the oil)even things you wouldn't think to use like solvents will outperform rem oil in a saltwater spray test.

Rem oil will work but you'd be better using almost anything else on a gun that has had rust in the past. It will always be more prone to rust. I use Rem oil quite a bit but only on gun and reloading tools I handle often and reapply often.

Growing up in the swamps of Wisconsin Rem oil is the only product that ever allowed my guns to rust. Unfortunately I always thought rust was part of gun ownership until I sniffed around and started testing other products.

Horseman
April 23, 2009, 08:57 PM
Steel wool will not imbed in stainless guns. Simply flush it off with WD 40, and wipe dry. If steel wool fibers are left ON an unprotected gun, they can rust and discolor the stainless. Steel wool fibers are electrostatically, and sometimes magnetically attracted to the stainless-but they do not imbed. Just clean them off and you'll be fine.

That's probably true Bill. The problem I ran into once was a stainless gun that was polished first with steel wool then buffed with a wheel previously used on chrome moly. I believe some steel wool fibers were buffed into the stainless causing rust. This is a different situation than using steel wool by hand alone. The stainless steel wool seems safer but you are probably correct there won't be a problem using the regular steel wool.

totalloser
April 24, 2009, 12:46 AM
Dunno if this pertains, but with welding SS (which I do now and then- MIG) if you clean up with a carbon steel wire brush, it will bond residual non-ss material that will cause rust spots. I'd be hesitant to rub mild or carbon steel on a SS surface due to this.

Horseman
April 24, 2009, 09:15 AM
Dunno if this pertains, but with welding SS (which I do now and then- MIG) if you clean up with a carbon steel wire brush, it will bond residual non-ss material that will cause rust spots. I'd be hesitant to rub mild or carbon steel on a SS surface due to this.

Yeah. Same goes for polishing stainless. You should never use a buffing wheel previously used on chrome moly steel cause it can embed into the softer stainless and cause rust.

SwampYankee
April 24, 2009, 09:46 AM
I have found that a light touch with a green scotch-brite pad removes rust/corrosion from stainless. It will leave some mark on the stainless but it's only hard plastic so you don't have to worry about embedded fibers.

Old Guard Dog
April 24, 2009, 06:45 PM
+1 on that. I bet someone buffed that gun before he bought it with a wheel that had been used on regular steel. Keep your buffs marked and seperate!!!

Bill DeShivs
April 24, 2009, 08:29 PM
I have never had that problem when knifemaking. I think in practicality it is a non-issue.

Horseman
April 24, 2009, 09:52 PM
I have never had that problem when knifemaking. I think in practicality it is a non-issue.

Is there a chance the surface hardness of your knife blades is much harder than a stainless barrel or receiver? That could make it harder for steel particles to embed in stainless.

Bill DeShivs
April 25, 2009, 01:28 AM
Yes, but I polish a lot of softer metals, too. If carbon steel residue was left, brass, 316 stainless and nickel silver would have rust spots, too.

smoakingun
April 25, 2009, 07:27 AM
you can use scotch brite and wd 40 or rem oil or break free or straight mineral spirits to remove the rust, just don't be real agressive with the scotch brite so as to minimize damage to the finish. as to preventing a reoccurence, if the rifle is to be a safe queen, then cosmoline is still available. but you have to clean the rifle before you shoot it. if you pull the rifle out once or twice a year. a product called rig grease applied to the outside with a lambs wool will do the job then lps 3 inside the bore is fine, keep the lambs wool near the safe, or rack, or where ever you keep the rifle, and if you handle the rifle, wipe the rifle back down before you put it away

TheRifleman
April 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
+1 for Bill DeShivs, he's absolutely correct. SS is impervious to wool, steel or synthetic, but make sure to use it with oil very lightly, of course, then WD-40 it...

brickeyee
April 26, 2009, 05:37 PM
"Steel wool will not imbed in stainless guns."

Not true.

All you need to do is rub steel wool across any 'brushed' stainless surface and then not oil it adequately.

Stainless is pickled in nitric acid after machining to remove any tool steel left behind (and that is VERY hard steel) and create the passivation layer that helps limit corrosion. Any free iron on the surface is removed in this process, preferentially leaving the corrosion resistant elements of the alloy on the surface.

I have seen stainles handguns marred by rust from steel wool, stainless sinks and kitchen equipment marred by rust from 'Brillo pads' enough to never use plain steel on stainless unless a decent pickle bath follows.

The same problem occurs with blasting grit previously used on plain steel.

The carbon steel does not "imbed" but is smeared on the surface.

Bill DeShivs
April 26, 2009, 06:08 PM
Thanks for correcting me. After all, what would I know?
Stainless is "self-passivating," BTW. While in some industrial circumstances pickling may be necessary, I doubt it is used in gun manufacturing. Steel wool fibers left ON THE STAINLESS SURFACE can rust and stain the underlying metal. All you have to do is flush/wipe them off.
But, since I don't know any better I have to add this:
'Don't leave a wet Brillo pad on your gun, it will cause rust stains.'
How's that?
Otherwise steel wool won't hurt stainless gun surfaces.

brickeyee
April 27, 2009, 08:30 AM
Stainless is "self-passivating,"

Guess I should ditch our pickle setup and tell DOD and satellite customers there is no longer a need for passivation.

It has only been an accepted process for stainless for about 50 years.

There are some alloys of stainless that are more corrosion protected than others, but for the most part as corrosion resistance increases other mechanical properties (including machinability) tend to decrease.

Stainless rifle barrels walk a careful balance with sulfur content between machinability and strength.
If the sulfur inclusions used to improve machniability are to large weak spots occur in the barrel, while if not enough sulfur is present machinabilty goes to hell ('stringy' chips that do not break and poor machined surfaces from chips sticking).

Horseman
April 27, 2009, 06:30 PM
Thanks for correcting me. After all, what would I know?

You didn't have a problem "correcting me". What would I know?

brickeyee
April 27, 2009, 08:38 PM
You didn't have a problem "correcting me". What would I know?

Not a lot about stainless steel maybe?

Horseman
April 28, 2009, 06:42 AM
In my youth I spent a couple of years producing, welding, polishing, industrial stainless tanks. I've polished stainless tanks that took a crew of 3 several days to complete. Not saying I'm an expert but I did learn a bit about polishing stainless.

HankB
May 6, 2009, 09:15 PM
Note that most stainless used in guns is rust resistant, not rust proof.

"300" series stainless alloys are very nearly rust proof, but don't respond to heat treating, so their mechanical properties are limited. These alloys are used a lot in cookware.

"400" series stainless is only rust resistant, but it DOES respond well to heat treating, which is why these are used in guns - 416 is fairly common. (The "465" stainless that Ruger switched to in their .454 SRH is said to have a corrosion resistance that "approaches" type 304 stainless . . . )

There are other, newer, more complex alloys as well, but 300- and 400- series alloys are the most common.

I would not use ordinary steel wool to buff a stainless gun for reasons already mentioned (and debated) in earlier posts.

Bill DeShivs
May 6, 2009, 10:03 PM
Would someone PLEASE show me a gun that was rusted because of "embedded" steel wool?