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lizziedog1
April 18, 2009, 12:16 PM
I know that there have been similar threads to this one here. There have been arguements and debates over this subject. However, this time I am looking for answers that are personal to the responder. Please, don't turn this thread into a personal attack, name calling one.

Here is my question, plain and simple; how do you define hunting.?

A young man is seated at a rest on the edge of an alfalfa field. He is helping the rancher rid his crop of pesky ground hogs. For hours he pick those rodents off one-by-one. Do you consider this activity hunting?

A middle aged gentleman goes pheasant hunting several times a month. He hunts at a "bird club." The pheasants he bags are pen-raised, planted birds. They have as much survival instinct as a barnyard chicken. Would you say this fellow is hunting by your definition?

Another guy decides to go boar hunting. He hooks up with an outfitter that uses dogs. He does get a wild pig. He was close enough to the animal that a long spear would have worked. In your mind, was this a hunt?

I guess I am trying to see where most people draw the line between shooting and hunting. Like I said above, I realize this is a personal opinion. So I am not asking this to pass any judgement on anyone. I a just curious.

ar15chase
April 18, 2009, 12:22 PM
AR15Chase does not hunt because the word hunting implies the possibility of failure. AR15Chase goes killing ...

hogdogs
April 18, 2009, 12:32 PM
A young man is seated at a rest on the edge of an alfalfa field. He is helping the rancher rid his crop of pesky ground hogs. For hours he pick those rodents off one-by-one. Do you consider this activity hunting?
Yes. Wild critters. Doing Damage. Farmer trusts him. Good shooter as he has picked off several.
A middle aged gentleman goes pheasant hunting several times a month. He hunts at a "bird club." The pheasants he bags are pen-raised, planted birds. They have as much survival instinct as a barnyard chicken. Would you say this fellow is hunting by your definition?
Not so much a hunt. Not wild game.
Another guy decides to go boar hunting. He hooks up with an outfitter that uses dogs. He does get a wild pig. He was close enough to the animal that a long spear would have worked. In your mind, was this a hunt?
Moreso than the bird scenario above as the hog is wild/feral and is dangerous game. Got close enuff for a spear puts you in dangerous proximity to a hog that can shuck the dogs or one could finish bleeding out as you go for the shot. The labor to get to the bayed hog is tremendous as well.
Brent

comn-cents
April 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
okay ar15chase aka: Chuck Norris try being a lil creative...

I consider all of those as hunting, just in a different method.
Its like shooting. For fun at paper targets-that's shooting
Competion-that's shooting
At clay pigeons-that's shooting

Art Eatman
April 18, 2009, 12:37 PM
The example of the groundhog shooting is not hunting as such, to me. It's pest control with a rifle. No different in fundamental concept than using a mousetrap in one's house. The same sort of thing holds true for prairie dog shooting in open pasture.

I'd say that the hog example is hunting, in that the dogs might not run across a hog's track. After that, it's maybe "hazardous exercise" and certainly having a sporting element.

Sitting in a stand near a feeder and waiting for Bambi is lazy-man hunting, in the same pattern as the big cats lurking near water holes. In some types of terrain and vegetation, of course, there's little alternative.

For over thirty years I was a walking/stalking hunter. Go to where I thought Bambi would be, kick him out of bed, and if he suited me I'd shoot him. Now that my legs got old and my back hurts, I'm much more of a sitter than a walker. (Grump.)

To me, "Hunting" is seeking as well as shooting. However, that's just part of the total package. I've always liked to have a social group for the campfire sessions. Sometimes, I've worked with others in cross-country walking-hunting. I dunno. I can sit and look at the coals of my campfire and sorta feel connected to hundreds of past generations of forebears. I've felt myself to be part of the natural scene for well over sixty years, now.

I guess I'm set in my ways, fixed in my attitude. I can describe what it all means to me--but I'm totally uninterested in anybody's contrary opinion. :)

grymster2007
April 18, 2009, 12:52 PM
I can sit and look at the coals of my campfire and sorta feel connected to hundreds of past generations of forebears. Funny. I do the same thing and have never really hunted. When I'm staring at the campfire, I feel like I have, but maybe that's merely the ghosts of my forefathers, coming to tickle my brain.

If I were to hunt, I don't think I'd want to sit in a blind and ambush my prey. I think I'd rather do the stalking-on-foot part. To me, that seems essential to capturing the entire experience and making the meat taste just that much better.

Buzzcook
April 18, 2009, 01:07 PM
Wild animal, targeting a specific animal, having a chance that you will not see or have a shot at that animal. Food, fur, or pest control.

cracker31
April 18, 2009, 02:03 PM
I can appreciate the still hunters, and do it from time to time myself, but mainly I am a stand hunter. Trying to bump one out of bed is great in the palmetto flats and flag ponds but in the swamp it's just not practical your eyes had better be on what you're about to step on (unless you're in some place that's real piggy, one of the greatest contributions of the wild hog is their ability and desire to eat poisonous snakes). Stand hunting, despite what some believe, does require skill. We put in our time stalking in the off season in hopes of finding that perfect spot. Also, sitting still and quiet for 4,5,6 hours at a time is not easy. It has taken me years to gain this skill, especially when it's cold. I sit so still that I often have tweety birds land on me and have had squirrels walk right over me on their way down the tree. Try sitting in a climbing stand (designed for function in lieu of comfort) for a whole day and don't move but maybe once an hour. Then tell me that it's easier than walking slow and quiet. Hunting is what you do, not how you do it. That being said, you have to put in your time. You have to earn the right to be called a hunter, even if that just means you spent hours at the range mastering a 600yd shot, you have to put the time in and do it yourself.

roy reali
April 18, 2009, 03:23 PM
I look at the way animals hunt and see if their is a human comparison. Most predators have claws or teeth. I figure that our weapons are our equivalent of that. Animals usually haver some senses that are keener then ours, scopes and binoculars help with that for humans. Some animals hunt in groups, using dogs is a form of a pack hunt. Some predators wait in ambush for their next meal. Sitting in a stand could be looked at as a human hunter's version of this.

Now, I see no natural equivalent to hunting animals that are planted. I can't think of a predator that picks off its prey in multiple numbers at great distances. I have nothing against these activities, but it ain't hunting as far as I am concerned.

Brian Pfleuger
April 18, 2009, 03:25 PM
Define: Hunting

hunt: the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport

search: the activity of looking thoroughly in order to find something or someone

hunt: the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for food or pelts


I think we over-complicate the idea.

I go "hunting woodchucks" very regularly. It has never occurred to me that I was doing anything besides hunting. Of course, I've never sat at the edge of a single field for hours waiting for them to come out either. I walk for miles.

Trying to over define the idea gets into all kinds of problems. If I'm still hunting deer then I'm hunting but if I then climb into a stand I'm not hunting anymore? That would seem to be the case if sitting on the edge of a field waiting for woodchucks is not hunting.

I go with the common sense definition. Hunting is going out looking for animals, with or without the intent of killing them. IMO

L_Killkenny
April 18, 2009, 03:33 PM
If one goes out seeking a critter to kill it's hunting. Period. No matter the methods or equipment used. Arguments could be made against "ANY and ALL" equipment and styles so quit trying to define it as anything else.

Pahoo
April 18, 2009, 03:41 PM
By my measure, hunting is a total package. From the range-time to the range-top, culminating in a good dinner. The acutal kill represents a fraction of the total package. If a hunter gets skunked, is it still hunting? Oh course!!

For hours he pick those rodents off one-by-one. Do you consider this activity hunting?

Good for him but this is what I call a conservation effort rather than hunting. There are many of these depending on the magnitude of a particular problem. We have what is called park or city hunts when the number of deer has gotten so big that the bunny huggers now start to complain and rather than paying someone to reduce the numbers, they open it up for hunting and "charge" the hunters. :eek:

They have as much survival instinct as a barnyard chicken. Would you say this fellow is hunting by your definition?

I don't think you know what you are talking about as the only difference I have seen, is that they hold better as opposed to the wild ones. By the second or third day, they are impossible to find or hold. Again, its' getting nearly impossible to find land or game to hunt that some folks go to these preserves. Is it hunting? Sure, but you make the call. On a few occasions, I have guided on these preseves and the shooting is the same but the prep and follow-up, is not. Might add that some birds actually get away and survive, unlike your barnyard chicken.


He was close enough to the animal that a long spear would have worked. In your mind, was this a hunt?

With a spear or knife? Absolutely and then some. It's all part of this Great Adventure we call hunting. :)

Be Safe !!!

orchidhunter
April 18, 2009, 03:57 PM
Canned hunting is the killing of an animal in an enclosure, with no chance of escape, in order to obtain a trophy. It is big business in Texas, where some ranchers find the provision of guaranteed kills to hunters willing to pay a premium price to shoot "exotic" animals to be more lucrative than cattle. Whether the "hunt" takes place on a fenced ranch or involves simply shooting into a cage, the target animals have no place to run and no place to hide. Often, the animals are tame and do not know to run from humans. On a typical hunting ranch operation, the animals are fed at a specific time and location. They learn to recognize the sound of the landowner's vehicle as it approaches with food. On the day of a hunt, the owner's vehicle will arrive with hunters instead of food; a kill is thus guaranteed. The price a hunter pays is pre-set for a given trophy animal; if that specific species is not presented as promised, the hunter's money is to be refunded. We have heard of no refunds.




Ranchers usually specialize in the provision of either native species (deer, peccary or javelina, small mammals and birds) or "exotic" species (non-native antelope, deer, boar, sheep, etc.). The animals found on game farms and hunting ranches come from several sources. Some are zoo surplus. Zoo directors must find ways to attract a public and it is well known that baby animals on display sell tickets. In order to make room for new arrivals, older animals are sold as surplus. While AZA-accredited zoos are prohibited from selling directly to hunting ranches, they are permitted to sell to animal dealers, who may then sell to individual collectors, roadside zoos and hunting ranches. The Animal Finder's Guide, a catalog for the underground trade in exotic animals, lists animals from macaques to camels for sale to anyone with cash to buy. It also advertises exotic animal auctions, another prime source of animals for canned hunting operations.

TX Parks and Wildlife, a state agency, sponsors canned hunts on private lands. For a $10 entry fee, a hunter can enter a lottery to participate in a "Big Time Texas Hunt" on a hunting ranch. Offered are opportunities to kill deer, antelope, hogs, alligators and "varmints." TX Parks and Wildlife also receives funding through the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, created to provide additional monies for the purchase of private ranches for use by TPW for public hunts.

There is no federal law governing canned hunting operations. The Animal Welfare Act does not regulate game preserves, hunting preserves or canned hunts. The Endangered Species Act does not prohibit private ownership of endangered animals and even allows for the hunting of endangered species with the appropriate permit.

Is this sport? Canned hunting is cruel and unfair; the animals haven't got a chance when facing high-tech firearms and archery equipment in a confined space. Write to your Congressional Representative and Senators today and ask them to reintroduce the bill to ban canned hunts. orchidhunter

Dragon55
April 18, 2009, 04:11 PM
1. traditional coon hunting with hounds and a single shot 22
2. quail/grouse hunting with or without dogs
3. squirrel hunting...with a 22
some examples I have enjoyed...........

I agree that varmint removal is borderline. I also agree that if the animal has lost any natural instincts or in penned in it's ot really hunting... just herding

hogdogs
April 18, 2009, 04:24 PM
dragon, You fergot runnin' hogs with dogs:rolleyes: Unless you consider that to be the original american livestock farming method as I do which is still hunting big time to me...:eek::D
Brent

Dragon55
April 18, 2009, 04:29 PM
Brother any time you're on the ground where one of those hogs can bite your @$$ I definitely consider it hunting. I went a couple times with a friend and sat in a tree with my .44. I never saw one but I saw one of his dogs that got to close. Was not a pretty site.

Para Bellum
April 18, 2009, 05:11 PM
Define...
- love
- honor
- style
- fighthing
- a victory
- ethic behavoir

Same problem, same answer: I know it, when I see it.
;)

ZeroJunk
April 18, 2009, 07:24 PM
Hunting is whatever you think it is. People can't agree on anything else, don't expect any agreement on this.


If the state requires you to have a hunting license to do it you are most likely hunting.

dalegribble
April 18, 2009, 08:19 PM
i'm not sure what the hunter sucess rates are around the country but i know they are pretty darn small overall. i like buying what i need for hunting, clothes, ammo guns etc. every year you need to add something new. i like the scouting, the camping, the friendships and the hunting even tho i am probably not as succesful as the average numbers. anyway hunting means alot more to me than pulling a trigger and hanging a head on the wall. if that was all it was i would just stay home.

Trapp
April 18, 2009, 08:20 PM
So you mean I am not hunting when I set out my mouse traps? :confused:
Dagnabit!! I call it hunting!

dbgun
April 18, 2009, 08:40 PM
Hunting is whatever you think it is. People can't agree on anything else, don't expect any agreement on this.

+1

lizziedog1
April 18, 2009, 08:49 PM
Check this out.

http://www.kalahari-trophy-hunting.com/hunting-definition-history.html

Do you agree with this definition of hunting? I think it is pretty close.

hogdogs
April 18, 2009, 11:37 PM
Zero, So I ain't huntin' when runnin' hogs with dogs....?:eek:
No license required and if you come with me on private land with owner's permission with dogs or guns, you don't need one either:D:p
Brent

ZeroJunk
April 19, 2009, 06:24 AM
Zero, So I ain't huntin' when runnin' hogs with dogs....?
No license required and if you come with me on private land with owner's permission with dogs or guns, you don't need one either
Brent

Just trying to narrow it down some. I hunted crows a lot when I was a kid. Come to think of it I think the state, in their wisdom, requires a license for that now.

I think I'll send a letter to the Forida Dept of Game Fish and Wildlife and tell them they are missing a revenue source.:D

hogdogs
April 19, 2009, 10:35 AM
Zero, well you do that... Just send me your address so I can pass it on to the Farmers:D
Brent

fisherman66
April 19, 2009, 10:42 AM
Trying to segregate hunting into subsets that qualify or don't qualify seems like a waste of time to me. I have certain styles that I enjoy more than others. I hunt over bait some times if it's a tough season. Last year I could have pet one particular deer, but I was afraid I might not like the reaction. I let that feller walk but it was a moment that defined my version of hunting.

If you follow the hunt laws to take game then you are hunting in my book.

ssilicon
April 19, 2009, 10:46 AM
How I see it:

The taking of game in it's natural habitat without the use of poison, traps or snares etc. is hunting. Be it by hands, knife, spear, irons sighted gun or super computer based sighting system on a gun.

skydiver3346
April 19, 2009, 10:58 AM
Well said Zerojunk:
That is exactly the right answer, as there is no "perfect" yes or no response to this question. We all need to stick together and support each other's hunting interests, period! If not, the anti's campaigns against us will pick up steam whenever we have conflicts among ourselves (over what is hunting and what is not considered hunting).
I may not agree with all the particular methods of hunting that are available to the hunting community, but I certainly am not going to give the anti-hunting crazies any ammo to fight or use againist us. Just my opinion.

Art Eatman
April 19, 2009, 12:42 PM
Note on Post #13: I strongly disagree with the connecting of the facts of canned hunting--I agree with the definition--to it being common practice on Texas hunting ranches--which it is not. Among other little problems, it's against the law. And multi-thousand-acre pastures are not exactly "pens".

ZeroJunk
April 19, 2009, 01:27 PM
I'm not interested in any non fair chase hunting. But, those who condemn it on some moral ground had better be a vegetarian. Ever been to a slaughterhouse? I have.

jammin1237
April 19, 2009, 01:29 PM
to me hunting is nothing more than using our brains / technology to gain control of our immediate environment for the further survival of our species(holy quap, where did that come from:D) ... its pretty much the only reason why any of us are still here...




cheers

Art Eatman
April 19, 2009, 02:39 PM
ZeroJunk, the thing is, all our game laws originated from what hunters wanted in the way of fair chase and ethics. Hunters started the game departments by pressure on legislatures, not the other way around. Granted, that's now changed, but don't forget how it started.

Pahoo
April 19, 2009, 04:09 PM
Lizzie Asked:
Here is my question, plain and simple; how do you define hunting.?

Then proceeded to post scenarios dealing with "Ethics" We all have our own set of hunting ethics or what we call a personal hunting code. Even the Bunny Huggers have their own code. I personally find all the loaded scenarios to be ethical if they were lawful. Based on our own, personal huntig code there is a fine line between what might or might not be considered hunting, in the strictest terms. I have a very good friend that would not considerate hunting unless it was taken with a bow and arrow. Then there is the hunter who hates to see an animal potentially suffer so would never use a bow. :eek:



Be Safe !!!

Art Eatman
April 19, 2009, 04:58 PM
The thing for me, Pahoo, is that the whole hunting shtick is a package deal. I've posted many times about the components of that package. And there's no way I can omit such things as ethics.

Y'know, when you've been doing something for danged near seventy years, you DO spend a bit of time thinking about the whole deal...

ZeroJunk
April 19, 2009, 05:08 PM
ZeroJunk, the thing is, all our game laws originated from what hunters wanted in the way of fair chase and ethics. Hunters started the game departments by pressure on legislatures, not the other way around. Granted, that's now changed, but don't forget how it started.


I understand, it's not the hunters that concern me. I don't like the "canned hunt" any more than you do. But, the treatment of wildlife is influenced by the collective sense of sportmanship of hunter's rather than any logically deducted difference between game animals and those unlucky enough to be domesticated.

Jekyll
April 19, 2009, 05:44 PM
Adding the "meat" to "meat & potatos".

lizziedog1
April 19, 2009, 06:37 PM
I want to reiterate the reason I started this thread. I really want to know where different individuals stand on this subject. If you go out and blast five hundred ground hogs today and call it hunting, good for you. Another fellow might not. I was curious about what different folks hunting compass points to.

bigthrills
April 19, 2009, 06:46 PM
Hunting to me is waiting patiently in a blind or stand for game to show up or stalking game thats hunting because if u come home with an animal u were succesful. if not u were still hunting. I look at it like this the cardinals lost the super bowl but they still play football.

johnwilliamson062
April 19, 2009, 10:18 PM
If I just go walk off into the woods for a day or two people will think I am weird.
If I take a shotgun and say I am looking for deer most everyone seems to think the behavior is pretty normal.

squidbilly
April 22, 2009, 08:46 AM
A penned hunt... no, not hunting! Using dogs for a wild boar, yes depending on the situation. Spearing a pinned down hog not even close. Go cajun style, let the dogs pin it and you go in with a bowie knife maybe. JMHO, if your going to "HUNT" then it is your skill and knowlage v/s animal instinct!

Swampghost
April 22, 2009, 09:14 PM
Where's the guy that hunted bears with nothing but a knife? He might have been on another site but that's down and dirty hunting.

To me it's a lifelong education that I find fascinating and time spent away from the rat race.

Down here we have a 7 yr. wet to dry cycle (approx.) Where do animals go when it's wet? Same with dry and in-between. What do they do when it rains? How does barometric pressure (cold/warm fronts) change their habits? And there are many more factors that can change their behavior.

I've always remembered my Grandpa's advice. Pay attention to the animals, the ones around your house are acting the same as all of the others. If they're moving, the ones in the woods will be too.

ZeroJunk
April 23, 2009, 10:40 AM
Where's the guy that hunted bears with nothing but a knife


I'd rather see it than hear tell of it.:)

grymster2007
April 23, 2009, 10:54 AM
Where's the guy that hunted bears with nothing but a knife Maybe, for some reason, he's no longer talking about that. :)

I dunno.... but seems to me that using dogs to tree a bear or cat, then shooting the thing out of the tree don't seem real sporting. OTOH, when a guy like Brent slides his shank into the armpit of a wild hog, chased down by dogs, now that's real hunting.... conducted by a manly man no less. :)

fisherman66
April 23, 2009, 11:05 AM
I dunno.... but seems to me that using dogs to tree a bear or cat

You ever spend 100's or even 1,000's of hours honing a dog's skills? I guarantee those who use dogs successfully spend more time training, practicing, breeding, culling, ect in one season than I have spend preparing to hunt in my entire life. It ain't cheating in my book.

Dragon55
April 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
Growing up my dad and I did a lot of coon hunting. To begin to train yearling coonhounds we would go groundhog hunting with a matick and shovel. Dogs would 'tree' a groundhog in it's den or we would find a den and ..... yes....... poke back in there with a pointy stick. You hear a growl you start digging.
Anyway, this winds up being a fight between a groundhog and 2 or 3 young redbone hounds. The purpose being to give the young dogs that taste of a fresh kill.
So.... yes you can go hunting and bring home game without a gun.

johnwilliamson062
April 23, 2009, 11:10 AM
Hunting with dogs:
Who trains the dogs?
If you are training and taking care of the dogs, I think it is every bit as much hunting as if you stalk prey or sit in a stand.
You put a lot of time into developing that expertise and training the individual dogs. At least as much time and expertise as I have with a rifle.


Now if I went out with Brent and hog hunted I would probably not consider what I was doing hunting. It would be more observing how he hunts.

AS much experience as I have with a knife, I am not sure I would be willing to go after a wild hog with one when a gun was an option. I spent about 30 seconds being chased around in a pen by a sow when I was 8 or 9. Not much fun

grymster2007
April 23, 2009, 11:13 AM
I don't object to what some of you folks do and I really don't think much about coons, but I just don't find it very sportsmanlike to shoot a dog-treed bear or cat out of the tree. Now maybe if the hunter himself drove it up the tree, I'd feel different. :)

chucksolo69
April 23, 2009, 11:36 AM
This is my "definition" of hunting: An activity that allows one to be in the great outdoors admiring the beauty of nature while attempting to acquire a game animal(s) for consumption.

To me, it ain't about killing something, God knows there have been plenty of times I went hunting and got nothing to show for it but a good work out. If I do score while hunting, so much the better, but if not, it was worth it to be outdoors and away from it all for a few hours/days.:)

Scorch
April 23, 2009, 02:25 PM
Define Hunting
Hunting is the practice of pursuing living animals (usually wildlife) for food, recreation, or trade. I would add that "pursuing" animals involves the desire or attempt to take/kill them. So, in my world, "hunting with a camera" means "hold its head up so I can take your picture", not going out for photos.

roy reali
April 23, 2009, 07:40 PM
If our ancient ancestors did not hunt with dogs we might not be hear today. Hunting with dogs is about the most natural thing that a person can do!

sc928porsche
April 24, 2009, 05:35 AM
For me, hunting is going out on public and sometimes private property, stalking the game and sometimes coming home with something to eat that wasnt purchaced in the store. I do love the stalk and also the scenery. Even the exhaustion from busting brush or climbing up onto the high ridges. I would never work that hard for anyone for any amount of money but for some crazy reason, I will do it to get a shot at some game. I must admit, most of the time I come back to camp empty handed. By seasons end I usually have been successful.

Hirlau
April 25, 2009, 12:39 AM
Lone Stalking

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk73/typhoonwinds/LoneStaliking.jpg

A Canned Hunt:eek:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk73/typhoonwinds/CannedHunt.jpg

Baiting :eek:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk73/typhoonwinds/Baiting.jpg

Hunting With A Guide

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk73/typhoonwinds/GroupHunting.jpg

Swampghost
April 25, 2009, 01:00 AM
I posted about the 'bear hunter with knife', it was about a year ago and I don't remember the site. I do think the guy was legit. Totally crazy but legit.