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predecessor
April 8, 2009, 05:13 AM
While I admit that some indoor ranges are poorly lit, I just don't ever find myself in a shooting situation when plain old sights don't work just fine for me. That being said, I've never felt the urge to spend $100+ for night sights on a gun. What am I missing?

Also, what is the preferred configuration? All 3 dots nighted, or just the front dot?

And does brand/type make a big difference? Is Trijicon or TruGlo best or would standard "Factory" nights sights do the trick just as well as after-market brands? Tell me the pros and cons to night sights!

TENWHEELER
April 8, 2009, 06:14 AM
I thought the same thing until last week. On a whim, I purchased the night sights and had them installed ($98 for everything, BTW).

I bought Tru-Glo with all 3 being green...WOW!

Not only is it nice to go back to the 3-dot sighting system, of which I am a fan, but it has tightened my groups up a little. I thought that I was shooting decently with the standard Glock sights but WOW.

If I could only do one upgrade on a pistol it would be the addition of night sights.

I have been impressed so much that I am going back and buying a set for my G23.

KSFreeman
April 8, 2009, 06:40 AM
just don't ever find myself in a shooting situation when plain old sights don't work just fine for me.

You don't think it may be low, altered or failing light when you get in a fight?:confused: Do not a heavy plurality if not a majority of fights happen in low light conditions?

I like the front sight of a different colour. But that's just me and with guns, the subjective is objective.

TLeo
April 8, 2009, 06:40 AM
Ever since our department went to weapons with night sights years ago I have loved them and added them to any pistol I buy if not already installed. I think they are a greaqt help in sighting and recommend having front and rear sights. Haven't compared the brands out there but have used trijicon with good results.

Kmar40
April 8, 2009, 06:50 AM
Pros- most defensive/HD shootings occur at night because that's when the critters are out. There is really no comparison under low light conditions.

Cons- cost

kraigwy
April 8, 2009, 07:23 AM
This should answer your question

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Videos/TheArtOfSurvivalChapter1/tabid/399/Default.aspx

oldandslow
April 8, 2009, 07:44 AM
predecessor, 4/8/09

I also favor night sights for a carry pistol. I have had to deploy my pistol on some really dark nights and I was unable to see my pistol without night-sights even though it was right in front of my face. On another occasion, at night, I had a pistol with me with front and back 3-dot green tritium night sights. It was reassuring that I could see the sights if I needed to use them. I have also trained in low light houses and for me it was much easier to get good, fast hits with the night-sights. Of course one needs to have a good flashlight to ID a target before even contemplating the use of a pistol.

I have tried several makers of night sights- Trijicons, Meprolights, and MMC/PT. The Trijicons are the most expensive but have the best customer service. The Meprolights are the brightest and cheapest. Meprolight and MMC/PT have not responded to my emails regarding customer service questions in a couple of years, so I favor the Trijicons even though they are more expensive knowing the customer support is readily available. Good luck.

I favor the green front and rear and have no problem lining them up at night. Others prefer different colors for front and rear which is mainly a personal preference.

best wishes- oldandslow

#18indycolts
April 8, 2009, 07:57 AM
I have trijicons on my walther p99 and love them.

scorpion_tyr
April 8, 2009, 11:36 AM
Trijicons came on my FNP-40 so I didn't spend any extra cash on them, but now that I see the advantages, I would in a heartbeat.

The best advantage of true night sights is that in pitch black conditions I can find my gun and I know exactly how to grab it safely. Those three little green dots tell me exactly how my gun is laying, and where. No more fumbling in the dark for a gun just a few feet from me.

Think you can find your gun fast in the dark without them? Wait until you're in deep sleep and there's a very loud noise coming from inside the house. The shotgun was less than three feet from me, but I couldn't find it because I couldn't see it. The FNP-40 with night sights helped a whole lot that night.

KSFreeman
April 8, 2009, 01:36 PM
They are like air strip landing lights.:D

ranburr
April 8, 2009, 03:58 PM
I think they are a must have on any defensive pistol. If you are just a target shooter, save your money. I differ from many in that I prefer a plain black rear sight with a tritium front. This keeps me from having any sight confusion when trying to sort out which of the three dots is really the front sight. I find it much faster and many people have switched to this setup after trying it out.

jpoolsmyd2
April 8, 2009, 06:19 PM
Trijicon all green three dots.

Worth every penny.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 8, 2009, 07:49 PM
I'll be the dissenter here. When I did lowlight shooting, I generally found that if it was bright enough for me to identify my target, I could use white dot sights. If it wasn't bright enough for me to identify my target, then a flashlight would let me use regular or tritium sights and without a flashlight, out in the country where there wasn't a lot of ambient light, the tritium could be bright enough that it washed out the target and made it harder to see if it was right on the edge of being visible to begin with (assuming I wanted to shoot at something I couldn't identify).

Having said that, the tritiums are easier to use and pick up than the white dots in low light where there is still enough ambient light to identify the target. I don't think they are necessity; but they can be nice to have in some scenarios.

Teuthis
April 8, 2009, 11:17 PM
I had Triijicon, three-dot night sights installed on my Springfield 1911. They also came with my Kimber Eclipse Pro II. What I like about them is that they are not too bright; just illuminated enough for me to pick them up easily at night. Bright sights that over-illuminate are not desirable.

Nnobby45
April 8, 2009, 11:52 PM
I prefer the night sights that have a large white outline around the tritium. Between the white, the tritium, and the black front sight, you're in pretty good shape for different light conditions. However, night sights aren't at their best until it's fairly dark, and there are still light conditions where your sights are hard to see.

Greatest sight in the world for daylight? Wow, the FO sights are fantastic. But, alas, those I've had proved fragile. Had them disintegrate on my 1911. Both rear, then the front. Still have some I shoot on a G22 and a Sig 245, but don't trust them for carry.

I think I've found a pretty good solution with CT lasers for eyes that aren't as young as they used to be. I call 'em my parking garage sights. They're no good if there's any sunlight, but really shine indoors or dim light. When I can't see my iron sights, the laser takes over nicely. The laser it'self might even have some psychological effect, but that shouldn't be Bubba's main worry.

Wanted them on my P229, but the short grip requires the CT's to be a little fat. Bigger hands, no problem. The P220 size is nice and thin enough--that's where my new CT's just went.:D

Not trying to turn the thread into a laser discussion, but they'd be a great thing to combine with good night sights with white outline on any pistol, and CT can solve issues with hard to see snubbie sights in dim light--especially for us ol' timers who need all the help we can get.



http://www.vickerstactical.com/TacticalTips/VisibleLasers.aspx

GetYerShells
April 9, 2009, 11:06 AM
My Sig 226 came with factory installed SigLite Night Sights. I am not sure who makes them but they are wonderful. Excellent sight picture. For dusk/low light/night shooting I couldn't ask for anything better.

KChen986
April 9, 2009, 11:17 AM
I have Novak Night Sites on my carry gun. I figure that since crime is most likely at night, being able to see where I'm aiming will be advantageous.

mnhntr
April 9, 2009, 08:21 PM
Meprolight night sights on my 686 carry gun and my 648 trapping pistol. The reason is you never know when you will be in a dim parking lot and need your weapon. Or in your house, asleep and not able to get to a light before needing to shoot. Or checking traps late in the afternoon and getting to last one at dark and needing to protect yourself from a timber wolf or yotes.These tritium sights are glow in the dark for 10yrs without having to charge them with light. I would not own a pistol without them.

TacticalDefense1911
April 9, 2009, 08:40 PM
Very little or no benefit in standard light or no-light situations. In low light situations they are invaluable, however. Unless you have a flashlight to backlight your sights, night sights greatly aid your ability to get your sights lined up in low light situations. However, since most people dont remember ever using their sights in a shooting (point and shoot) then who knows. IMO if you've got the money they dont hurt a darn thing and you will see an advantage with them in low light situations.

mnhntr
April 9, 2009, 10:29 PM
Very little or no benefit in standard light or no-light situations
Actually this is a false statement. Look at tritium night sights in complete darkness and they are just as easy to pick up as if it was light.

rmocarsky
April 9, 2009, 10:58 PM
I've had Trijicons on my Norinco 1911A1 for 16 years.

Still super bright.

TacticalDefense1911
April 10, 2009, 06:46 AM
Actually this is a false statement. Look at tritium night sights in complete darkness and they are just as easy to pick up as if it was light.

This is not a false statement from a tactical standpoint; in total darkness you cant see your target so who cares if you can see your sights. Therefore there is no benefit to night sights in total darkness, unless you have a flashlight which would make it a low-light situation.

mnhntr
April 10, 2009, 11:27 AM
Ok, so the three dot addition does not add to quick target pick up in light settings? And i dont care where you are, except maybe a photo darkroom, you can see your target in low to no light situations in real world situations. So it is false. There are plenty of benefits to these sights over stock sights.

GetYerShells
April 10, 2009, 12:15 PM
And i dont care where you are, except maybe a photo darkroom, you can see your target in low to no light situations in real world situations

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I always thought photo rooms had a low intensity red light in them. Isn't "no light" the total absence of light? If so it would be impossible to see a target in total blackness situations.

mnhntr
April 10, 2009, 12:54 PM
All i am saying is in a real world situation when are you in a NO light situation? I cannot think af any place i have been other than a room intentionally made for NO light. These sights are enough to pick up a target in any real situation you would face. Most of the time if you are in an extremely low light condition you can see a figure of the target. But for someone to say these sights have NO benefit they obviously have not used them much.

TacticalDefense1911
April 10, 2009, 01:28 PM
All i am saying is in a real world situation when are you in a NO light situation?

You've never walked through a dark room at night with no moonlight coming through the windows? No light situations are when you are walking with your arms out in front of you so you dont run into something. Night sights aren't going to help you here; only a flashlight will. I can think of plenty of times I've been in this situation.

There is no need to get in a ******* match over it; I'm agreeing with you that they are a benefit in low light situations which is what you are talking about, not no light. I've shot plenty in low light situations and plenty in no light; with the latter you have to use a flashlight to illuminate your target, plain and simple, no matter what your sights are.

mnhntr
April 10, 2009, 01:42 PM
Not trying to bash you either. I just think there are more situations that these sights are a benefit and worth the $ you pay for them. The stock red ramp sights on alot of the revolvers are junk IMO, along with stock sights on most bottom feeders. The design of the three dot tritium sights are a huge improvement in these cases no matter what the light level. I was not trying to start an argument with you but i wanted to make sure the thread starter knew what you are saying.
No disrespect intended.

Wuchak
April 10, 2009, 02:01 PM
"This is not a false statement from a tactical standpoint; in total darkness you cant see your target so who cares if you can see your sights. Therefore there is no benefit to night sights in total darkness, unless you have a flashlight which would make it a low-light situation."

Not true and I see this faulty logic over and over again on every board whenever night sights are discussed. Why is there an assumption that you and the target are in the same light? Just because you are not in a lighted area doesn't mean your target isn't. You might be in a dark hallway while your target is in the brightly lit kitchen.

It's also not always necessary to see anymore than the figure of the person to know it's a bad guy. My wife and I are the only ones who live in my house, all of our family is 1300 miles away, and nobody but us has a key to the doors. If she's in the bedroom behind me when I walk down the hall any other figure of a person I see in my house is someone who has no legal business being there.

TacticalDefense1911
April 10, 2009, 03:57 PM
Not true and I see this faulty logic over and over again on every board whenever night sights are discussed. Why is there an assumption that you and the target are in the same light? Just because you are not in a lighted area doesn't mean your target isn't. You might be in a dark hallway while your target is in the brightly lit kitchen.


I'm not assuming anything; what if you are in the light and you target is in the dark. If you cant see the target you cant see the target, that is all I'm trying to say. In your example you can see the target because they are in the light; this would not be a "no light" situation. Even if you didnt have night sights, which would help in your scenario, the light from the kitchen would give you the ability to see your sight regardless; not very well but still visable even if you dont have night sights.

Once again, no advantage to night sights in daylight situations obviously (not talking 3-dot vs. no dot here since there are several different types of night sights) since you can see your sights anyways, and no advantage to them if your target cant be seen. Yes they are a great advantage in low light situations. Beating a dead horse here, I dont see this to be that difficult to understand :(

Creature
April 10, 2009, 04:37 PM
I prefer having my sights plainly visible in very low light situations where standard sights would be difficult or impossible to see. Low-light situation describes the ambient light surrounding both the target and your sights...not just the target.

Nnobby45
April 10, 2009, 05:20 PM
This is not a false statement from a tactical standpoint; in total darkness you cant see your target so who cares if you can see your sights. Therefore there is no benefit to night sights in total darkness, unless you have a flashlight which would make it a low-light situation

There's almost no such thing as "total darkness". If, say, you properly ID'd a threat in dim light (living room?) and the threat moves to a darkened area, I believe night sights would serve very well--they already have on many occasions.

See if you can (be practical about it) create a situation where there's total darkness where you couldn't even glimpse Bubba's shadow. Not likely. A closet is one of the few places the may qualify. If you're in ther with Bubba, then, admittedly, NS's would be of little use.:D



What night sights don't do in near darkness is ID the target for you. If the target is ID'd (and it must be) they tend to work as designed.

Interesting how a laser sight can illuminate things in "total darkness" so it isn't "totally dark" anymore.:D

Jay1958
April 10, 2009, 08:39 PM
I only have night sights on one of my pistols: a CZ75BD 9mm that came with factory night sights.

I've heard that after a certain amount of time, they fade and the "night sight" no longer works.

Does anybody know what the average usable life of night sights is, before they quit being effective?

Creature
April 10, 2009, 08:52 PM
I have a set of Meproligts that I had installed on my Glock back in 1995 that are still visible...not the brightest but still plainly visible. And my guess is that these particular night sights were actually manufactured in 1994 or 1993.

TacticalDefense1911
April 11, 2009, 07:13 AM
Does anybody know what the average usable life of night sights is, before they quit being effective?

Most companies say 10 years I believe, but as Creature has said they can last longer.

Creature
April 11, 2009, 07:40 AM
Most companies say 10 years I believe,

Most companies claim 14 years. Tritium (symbol T or 3H) is the radioactive isotope of hydrogen with half-life of 12.32 years and a decay rate of Tritium molecule 5.626% per year.

GUNSITE
April 11, 2009, 10:09 AM
Practicality is the key, if you can afford it, go for laser sight; it’s at least a conversational piece of equipment at the range. In night situations i always used my weapon in one hand and light in the other with a cross hand stance.

I never use a light in tactical situations unless i absolutely have to, your light gives away your position. I TRY to become part of the darkness and work it to MY advantage.

The front white dot on the Glock (my weapon of choice) is great for close combative situations (<15 feet) picking up the front sight to put on the target spontaneously in stressful conditions.

Home intruders are at a disadvantage in darkness in your home, they don't know the layout... i.e. stairs, steps, obstacles, so they are more likely to use a flashlight and give themselves away, if they don't need a flashlight to move about, then neither do you. If you have to use a flashlight, use a strong one with blinding effect.

I personally don't have the need for a Laser sight or a flashlight attachment for my weapons (Guns) I’ve always concentrated my training on close combat encounters (<!5 Feet) where slow sight alignment aiming is NOT need it, therefore laser and flashlights are just not practical, for me.

I have seven or so small hand held flashlights placed around my house for emergencies.

Brit
April 15, 2009, 07:32 AM
TruGlo Hands down the best invention since sliced bread (which I do not buy, I like thick toast!) First, which has already being stated, eyes open from deep sleep, pistol id no question, 18" away, the handle is under the back two dots!

The TruGlo are the brightest I have seen, and in bright day light the fiber optic feature is incredible, so much so that swinging the pistol to follow your eyes to a target in day light, these sights are so bright as your focus on the target (which you do!) still allows the three green dots to be clearly seen, they are superimposed on the target.

And last but certainly not least, your brain can align 3 bright green dots much easier than the traditional front post inside a box, with the tops in a straight line, gap of light equal on each side of that post.

444
April 15, 2009, 09:50 AM
The point about finding the gun itself in the dark is a good point. When I look over on my nightstand, the only thing I can see are the nite sights glowing on my Glock.

Three things made me a big believer in nite sights:

If you take a formal training class, they usually have at least one night portion of the class. You will quickly discover that shooting at night is hard enough without also not being able to see your sights. It is possible to use yoru handheld flashlight to see the target and the sights, but this takes more dexterity than I can manage. Nite sights eliminate this problem.

Second: I shot a night IDPA match. This brought out the points above as well as a different twist on the same theme. We had one senario where we were in a shoot house but the targets were outside. The senario is that you hear a noise outside. You open the door to see what is going on and three guys are robbing your shed. When you light them up, they turn and open fire on you. That particular night there was a very bright moon and you could see the targets easily and distinctily. However, since you were inside the building, you couldn't see your sights. Again, you could clearly ID the targets without a flashlight. It was bright enough outside to see the scoring rings on the targets. But, you, being in the buidling couldn't see your sights at all unless you had night sights. This might be the same situation if you were lighting up your target with a flashlight, or if the target was lighting himself up with a flashlight, or the target was clearly illuminated with light coming in the windows BUT, you are standing in the darkness of your bedroom door.
You often read on these boards about never shooting a target you can't identify and if it isn't light enough to identify the target then you shouldn't be shooting: what these people don't realize (because they never tried it) is that it is easily possible to have the target clearly visible while you are standing in the dark.

Lastly, I have done a lot of jack rabbit shooting at night. We light up the rabbit with a spotlight but again, you are not standing in the light of the spot light. You are well off to the side and can't see your sights. This is just a variation of everything said above but further drove the point home to me.

One more thing: if you have nite sights, this gives you just one more option/advantage. If you don't need them, there is nothing negative about them. You just use them like any other factory iron sight. But, if you need them, they are there.

Stevie-Ray
April 15, 2009, 04:25 PM
I love the Mepros on my Kimber. I'm going to purchase sets for both my Glocks, as well. I don't think brand will matter.