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51_60_colt
April 6, 2009, 09:44 PM
Mossberg 500 vs Remington 870 Express....Any one better than the other? Also, opinions on 28 inch barrel vs 26 inch barrel? Thanks!

Brad Clodfelter
April 6, 2009, 09:48 PM
The 870 Express will be the better made pump by far.

cryption
April 6, 2009, 09:52 PM
fork out for the 870 police magnum, I know a couple gunsmiths who won't work on an express

51_60_colt
April 6, 2009, 09:59 PM
What makes the 870 better? And, why wont they work on the express, not high quality enough?

Brad Clodfelter
April 6, 2009, 10:40 PM
The 870 Express is made with some of the same parts as the 870 Wingmaster shotgun. Anyone who knows about pump shotguns can tell you that the 870 is the shotgun that all other pumps wished they could beat. No other pump shotgun will touch them.

Take apart a 870 shotgun, and then take apart a Moss 500 and you will see why the 870 is the better shotgun. They are just built better with better parts and a better design that will last a lifetime with normal use.

The Browning BPS pumps would be the closest competition. They are good pumps as well.

But the 870 is probably without question the best selling pump shotgun ever made.

I have owned 6 870's over the years.

51_60_colt
April 6, 2009, 11:16 PM
Thanks...my brother has a 500 moss. and my friend has an 870 so when I'm out their way I'll do some in depth lookin....I think I'll go with the 870 when it comes time though

inSight-NEO
April 6, 2009, 11:18 PM
The 870 Express will be the better made pump by far.

Not necessarily true by any means. Better finish? Maybe...Better reliability? Dubious at best (when comparing the 500/590 to the 870 Express anyway).

Sure, I might take a Remington 870 Police over a Mossberg 590-A1, for instance, but I certainly wouldnt complain owning the later. But, these two shotguns are not the main topic of this particular discussion. So, in terms of "commercial" grade shotguns, I just dont see the 870 Express as being any better than a Mossberg 500/590. At this point, it basically comes down to which gun "fits" the best and offers the most desirable features. Both will stand the test of time, but simply claiming that the Express "hung the moon," so to speak, is a bit premature IMHO.


But the 870 is probably without question the best selling pump shotgun ever made.

This is true...But, best selling doesnt always mean its the best....as many Ford owners might tell you. ;)

sailskidrive
April 6, 2009, 11:21 PM
I own several Mossbergs and several 870s.

12 ga Moss 590-A1 - new
12 ga Moss 500 c.1990
12 ga Sears Slugmaster (Mossberg 500) c.1975
20 ga Moss 500 c. 1985
12 ga Rem 870 c. 1975
28 ga Rem 870 Wingmaster - new

Both of the current production Mossbergs and Rem 870s are pretty crappy, with the worst by far being the Mossberg Maverick series and the Rem 870 Express. Plastic trigger housings, matte finish receivers, plastic safety buttons or slides. What the heck happened to American quality, they look more like imported Chinese crap.

I bought a 28 ga Rem 870 Wingmaster last year for the little lady to shoot. It's a beautiful gun, too bad I was paying more for a Wingmaster when it is basically just the same gun they used to manufacturer in the 70s as the normal 870.

Regarding build quality, the parkerized military issue Moss 590-A1 with the steel trigger group and heavy steel barrel is the best made in the group. I've personally carried this firearm overseas as a contractor and it stood up to abuse that no regular Moss 500 or Rem 870 could ever take.

~Sail

the rifleer
April 6, 2009, 11:25 PM
Remingtons Quality has gone down in the last few years. If you bought a 870 that is 10+ years old, the it is a good shotgun. If its new go with the mossberg.

I have a mossberg 500c and its works great. it has a 10 year warranty and i think it a great gun. Go with the mossberg.

inSight-NEO
April 6, 2009, 11:28 PM
Regarding build quality, the Moss 590-A1 with the steel trigger group and heavy steel barrel is the best made in the group.

I have the "standard" 590 (8+1) myself; while not an A1, I like it. Now, I have added a metal safety and will soon be adding a heavy-walled barrel. So, other than the metal trigger assembly/guard, it will basically be an A1. The metal trigger stuff will be put on hold until its actually needed.

Regardless, the Mossberg is a quality weapon and does whats expected of it. Sure, its no Benelli SNT (I have one of those myself and personally consider it the best in quality when considering "commercial" grade shotguns), but parts are plentiful and inexpensive. While the Mossberg is somewhat lacking in "beauty and finish," it makes up for it when it comes to durability, ease of use and reliability.

coldshot
April 6, 2009, 11:44 PM
I've never shot a Mossberg, I hear that they are not well made, but that is a questionable statement, & I can't go on what somebody else say's. One of my friends has been shooting an 870 since the early sixties, & I shoot my dads M37 Featherlite that is about the same vintage. Pump guns are tough regardless of manufacturer, I have a winchester 1300, and the M37, I love them both for their simplicity, ease of cleaning and they always work. I have come close to buying a Mossberg 500 a few times but I already have two pump guns, that is the only reason that I didn't buy one. I also really like the BPS hunter in 12 gauge, Might be the smoothest pump action that I have ever handled. Buy what you like and enjoy it. As far as barrel length goes I'm no expert but I like a 26" for Skeet, & upland, a 28" for trap & water fowl. The receiver on a slide action is longer than an O/U or a single shot, so a 26 inch pumpgun compares to a 28 inch O/U or single shot. Buy what fits you And feels good in your hands.

MagicMan
April 6, 2009, 11:51 PM
I've had both. My 870 feels like it's made better & more solid than the 500. I'd buy another 500. You can't go wrong w/either.

tazz7002
April 7, 2009, 04:10 AM
both good guns i have a 10 yr 870,take 870 ,thats why police use them

spikespeigel
April 7, 2009, 06:39 AM
I've never had any problems with any of my four 870's...:D But it will have alot to do with how you take care of it...

Doyle
April 7, 2009, 07:41 AM
No other pump shotgun will touch them.


Yea, right. Apparantly you have no knowledge of Benelli Nova's or Browning BPS's. Either beats an 870 Express or Mossberg.

Chuckusaret
April 7, 2009, 08:20 AM
Mossberg or Remington? Both are good guns based on their price but not as good as my Browning B25. I have both the 500 and 870 and the Mossberg goes bang every time, thats more than I can say about the 870 that has had a FTF problem since the day I bought it. Everyone keeps telling me to put some rounds thru it to break it in. BS, I have at least 500 rounds thru it and no change. Get the Mossberg.

MagnumWill
April 7, 2009, 08:57 AM
All right, i've got to throw my .02 in. I own a Mossberg 590, and a buddy of mine owns an 870 express (With all the ATI crap bolted to it) and I think they are PRACTICALLY EQUAL!! I chose the mossberg when I bought one. Why? because i feel that I got the same amount of quality (even though I can't do barrel swap with a 590, but I don't bird hunt) for about a hundred bucks less. Do I think the fit n' finish of the 870 is great? Completely. DO I think the mossberg is equal to it? Yes. Plus, the mag release is in a WAY better position on the Mossbergs, and I think the safety setup is better, too. You can use the Knoxx stocks without any adverse effects if you've got an oversize safety on your 870. But hey; they are both GREAT GUNS, and they serve their purpose.

I'm not sure if I like these threads, since people pit one thing against another that really may not be relevant. I mean hell, for all we know there could be a Maverick 88 somewhere that can survive more punishment than some 590A1 somewhere else! I bought a Chevy Blazer new, and the car needed about a $1500 infusion every year to keep it out of the scrap yard. My wife owns the same truck, same year (From GMC) And it's never needed more than general maintenance. The same goes with guns. I'm not saying that your Howa .308's got nothing on my Mosin Nagant M44, I figure that if we tend to use guns that are M&P worthy- we'll be alright, they're gonna serve their purpose.

Housezealot
April 7, 2009, 10:14 AM
wow this seems to be the question of the day in the forums, I have owned both and thought they were both great, I got rid of the 870 and kept the mossberg becuse I shoot left handed and the safety is better for me. to the guys that say mossbergs are not built well I have to disagree, I know people have brand loyalties but I love my 500 just as much as my old 870 (still kind of prefer my old winchester 1897, but hey I think thats cause it was my first shotgun;))

colostomyclown
April 7, 2009, 02:05 PM
A good Mossberg well-maintained will last forever. Same with Remington. they're both great guns. But to a mall ninja, reputation is everything. :)

Learn how a gun works and operates from top to bottom and then use your best judgement. I don;t care if you have a Benelli autoloading combat shotgun and I have a single shot new england 20 gauge....whoever has better control and knowledge over their weapon will probably be the better man for it.

TxGun
April 7, 2009, 02:33 PM
As practically everyone else has said, they are both solid and reliable shotguns. I have a decided preference for the 870, but only the older Wingmasters. To me the 500 vs. the Express question is a complete toss-up.

Oh yeah, to answer the second part of your question, I prefer a 24-26" bbl. with a choke system for hunting. I don't feel the 28" bbl. offers any advantage...and it is a bit less handy. But that's just me. Some feel the 28" bbl. swings better for them.

TMackey
April 7, 2009, 03:45 PM
Here is my 870 bought about 3 years ago.

The rag on the left is from 2 wipedowns 4 weeks apart. The rag on the right is 3 weeks since the last wipedown. :mad:

I used to own a 500 and now own an 870. I won't be buying anymore new Remingtons. My 870 is a rust magnet and jams on occasion. The 500 I had never rusted and only jammed once.

recoilguy
April 7, 2009, 05:01 PM
I am 50 years old. I have a Mossberg I bought in 1973 with washing dishes money. It has killed more Ducks and pheasants then most guys entire arsinal will ever hope to kill. It has also missed a few birds in its day. I have cared for it and kept it clean and well oiled. It still works and I hunt with it a couple times a year still. It is a little loose isn the skide now but it ejects every shell I shot and has not misfired ever. I have never owned an 870 but have hunted with many 870's and their owners. A nice gun too.

I can't talk to Mossbergs now aday but I love the one I have. I paid $110 bucks for it in 1973 I had to save for 3 months to get it. One day my son will say this old thing was my dads.

RCG

scorpion_tyr
April 7, 2009, 05:19 PM
The Remington is better choice by far... if you have the same brain I do. If not then either one is fine. I consider them to both be equal with the only differences being the safety and slide release. I prefer the way the Remington is set up. Many prefer the Mossberg.

87mustang
April 7, 2009, 07:21 PM
remington shotguns are for shooting things, mossberg shotguns are used to shoot things and pound nails, but do neither very well.

bwheasler
April 7, 2009, 07:29 PM
I'm still using my Dads 870 with was made in the early 60's My nephew calls it Lucky, which is true because he kills something every time he uses it. If you are leary of a new Express, there are plenty of vintage 870's out there. You will not be sorry. I love mine so well I'm taking ti to Africa in May to hunt warthog and kudu, that is how confident I am about mine.

.300 Weatherby Mag
April 7, 2009, 07:35 PM
Can't go wrong with either... I'm biased toward the 870... Just be sure to get rid of that POS plastic mag follower....

Brad Clodfelter
April 7, 2009, 08:12 PM
Everyone will have their opinions. But the truth is the 870 is a better functioning shotgun that is built better in design than the Moss 500. You can't wear out a 870. Sure they have had problems, but nothing like what Mossberg has had over the years. The same goes for comparing a Moss semi-auto with a Remington 1100 or 11/87. The actual number of guns sold will tell the tale of what gun is the better made shotgun. My buddy had the first semi-auto that Mossberg made with the 9200. It was a pos. The ejector would shave off the brass after you fired a round. LOL! Real quality there. And I will bet money his wasn't the only one to do it either.

My Mossberg 835 is my best shooting shotgun I own. I bought it to strictly turkey hunt with. I love it. But I won't for a second say it's a better made gun than the Rem 870 pump regardless if it's a Wingmaster or an Express.

The Mossberg forearm rattles and has more slop in it than the 870 Express. The receiver bolt is made way better on the 870 Express. The inside of the barrel is better machined and polished than the Moss 500. The trigger is better on the 870 Express. The Rem choke tubes are made to better quality than the Mossberg. The safety is better on the Rem. The list goes on and on.

The 870 design is still the best pump shotgun on the market.

RockyTop
April 8, 2009, 07:21 PM
I've been contemplating this and a couple of others the last few weeks. I don't want to spend alot on something I may not use much, but don't want a piece of junk either. I do very little hunting but would like to do more, especially some turkey hunting. Also interested in a shotgun for HD, even though in my nearly 40 years I have never actually needed any weapon to defend myself or home (but I still think it's a good idea to have one just in case).

So after checking around and doing research, and with wanting something versatile, I decided on the Mossberg 500 field/security combo. The local Dick's Sporting Goods doesn't carry it in stock, but can special order it for $269. I've seen where some have said they've bought this for $249 in the past, but I've also seen it go for over $300. Anyway I went to order it today and they called their vendor and it's out of stock and they don't know when they can get more in.

So now I guess I'm back at square one unless I want to wait weeks/months to see if they get any more and then it'll be 3-6 weeks once it is ordered.

inSight-NEO
April 8, 2009, 09:12 PM
But the truth is the 870 is a better functioning shotgun that is built better in design than the Moss 500.

The 870 design is still the best pump shotgun on the market.

Biased opinons, sigh; They never cease to amaze me. :rolleyes:


Better design? This is ambiguous at best. The Mossberg has a receiver mounted safety, dual extractors, an "elevator" designed to drop only when the forend is in full rear battery, optimally located action release, etc. These are good things and can hardly be construed as approaching inferior design. After all, the 870 isnt for everbody, regardless of how "pretty" it may seem. Frankly, Im more concerned with functionality vs how pretty a weapon looks.

In terms of reliability of the Express...For every Mossberg 500/590 failure story there is always one or two such stories to follow in regards to the 870 Express. In fact, most Mossberg failures I have read about involve the crappy factory mag tube spring and/or follower. These are easy to remedy.

Now, if you want to get down to it, the Benelli SuperNova trumps all of these shotguns..for the price. But, due to parts availability/cost, the Benellis continue to suffer as a brand. But, the quality is much higher than either the much lauded 870 or the 500/590, for that matter.

Regardless, I opted for the 590 vs the 870 Express as the Mossberg just "feels" better, offers user friendly and well designed components and goes "BANG" every time. Besides "beauty" and possibly vast parts availability, what more could you ask for out of any weapon?

TxGun
April 8, 2009, 11:28 PM
As far as pump guns go, I love the older 870 Wingmasters. Without looking, I think I have 7 or 8 of them at the moment. IMO, they are far superior to the Express line. I just don't see the Express as being better made or finished vs. the Mossberg. In fact, I bought a new Express Syn. 7 round gun back in November. I was so disappointed in the build quality, I took it over to Bass Pro within the week and traded it + some boot $$ for a used Wingmaster and put a spare 18" bbl. that I had laying around on that! Took a loss and was/am glad I did. I'd do it again tomorrow. I just didn't want it (Express) after I got it home! I had ordered it through my gun shop because...hey, it was an 870 and I'm familiar with them and like 'em. Well, this one didn't even feel like an 870, and I've been shooting 870s since the 1960s so I know them fairly well. So no, I don't see any real quality difference between the Express and the Mossberg 500/590.

Brad Clodfelter
April 8, 2009, 11:29 PM
The facts are that Rem made the cheaper Express 870 version because of the competition was more based on cheaper made guns like the Moss 500 and Win 1300. People are cheap when it comes to buying a gun and will go the cheaper route. So Remington decided to give them a no thrills Express line of 870. They are still a better made shotgun than the 500. Compare the quality of the choke tubes and it pretty much says the same thing for each gun. Mossberg is just a cheaper made gun and the price reflects it.

There have been more 870 pumps sold than any other pump shotgun on the market.

It is hard to beat the truth, but it shall set you free. :)

TxGun
April 8, 2009, 11:39 PM
The one fact I am sure of is I won't have another Express. Too many nice, used Wingmasters available for me to downgrade when I want another pump gun. And regardless of anyone else's opinion, if I had to choose between the two, I'd think I'd buy a Mossberg before I'd buy an Express. That's how bad my experience was.

Brad Clodfelter
April 9, 2009, 12:02 AM
Well I have owned a few 870 Express shotguns. They all have been pretty good guns. I had a few Wingmasters as well. I agree the Wingmaster is the better gun by far.

For every horror story you hear about Remington Express shotguns there are several more about Mossberg shotguns. The design of the Express line is copied off the design of the 870 Wingmaster. They have cut corners to save on the cost, but they will work, and they shoot good.

The inside of a 870 Express barrel will smoke the inside of a 500 barrel. Look through a few of them and you shall see for yourself.

Brad Clodfelter
April 9, 2009, 12:21 AM
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/

That pretty well says it all.

resc
April 9, 2009, 08:48 PM
I recently bought a 20 gauge 7-round 870 "Express" and I can't tell you how frustrating it was. The first 5 rounds fired fine, then it jammed. It appeared as if the action bars were 'off track'. Disassembled, lubed, looked good, fired and...jammed. Took it back to Cabela's, they took it apart, put it together, it fired 2 rounds and... jammed.
Took it to a good gunsmith.
He found several issues, one being that there was a slight grate on the magazine extension that prevented the follower from going further down after 2 rounds. This must have happened when reassembling the gun and it appears to happen very easily. NICE! Especially with a HD gun.
The trigger assembly was also defective and caused jamming even after the magazine issue was resolved. The gunsmith was shocked about the play of some parts of the trigger assembly. He recommended to return the gun, which I did. I now have a Mossberg 500 and I am very happy with it. The Mossberg's quality appears to be higher where it counts: The barrel feels more solid. The synthetic buttstock is thicker. Action is smoother. The position of the safety is ideal. Most important: The Mossberg fires when I pull the trigger! The firing takes place in the chamber, not in the receiver - so to me it is irrelevant if the receiver is made out of steel or aluminum. The Mossberg is not as tight as a 870 but:
a tight design plus poor quality control equals a jamming gun!
My advice is to get a Mossberg or to spend a little more and get a
Wingmaster or a Benelli.

TMackey
April 10, 2009, 04:38 AM
That pretty well says it all.

Unfortunately it doesn't.

ScaryWoody
April 10, 2009, 09:49 PM
I've had a Mossberg 500A since 1988. I shoot and maintain it regularly. I plan on getting the Rem. 870 when the Mossberg wears out in about another 30 years.

sailskidrive
April 10, 2009, 11:04 PM
I wonder why the US military chose the Moss 590A1?

Personally, I like them both, but I feel the 870 is definitely more of a hunting firearm. The location of the safety and action release are not well located for tactical use.

~Sail

Katrina Guy
April 11, 2009, 08:31 AM
Typically it's who can come in under budget, passing whatever torture test are there first of course.
From what I'm reading on this thread, thus far, one would wonder if the extra money for an Express over a Mossberg is worth it, since most seem to agree that an Express is not a Wingmaster, if true then all the hype about the "870" being the shotgun of shotguns becomes invalid since all 870's are not alike now-a-days. I have both an Express and a Persuader, won't comment on either, only commenting on what the other posters on this thread have said. You might want to base your choice on which of the two shotguns to purchase based on feel and layout of controls, slide release and safety, and leave longevity alone as both firearms will probably be there for you, unless you are a heavy shooter then, and admit I don't know, one may have an advantage over the other in that regard.
In a day and age where we are fighting overseas products, it is a shame that American made products overall, seem to have gone down hill to some aspect, due to trying to compete with the very same overseas cheap products. Shame.

GetYerShells
April 11, 2009, 09:00 AM
I'm biased toward the Mossbergs. Mine has never failed me. I've owned it for about 3 years now and shot it quit frequently. It's not the prettiest thing in the world nor is there really anything that sets it apart from the rest. It just flat out works though, man I can't say that enough. It does what it is built to do, purely functional.

scorpion_tyr
April 11, 2009, 11:05 AM
I wonder why the US military chose the Moss 590A1?


It's all about the lowest bidder. In any aspect of purchases by the military, they set standards of what they are looking for, and the bidder who says they can do it for the least amount of money gets the contract.

And it depends on what branch and what unit. I've seen plenty of Remington 870's in the hands of military members.

TMackey
April 11, 2009, 12:05 PM
Not sure the US Military picking a particular gun is a selling point.

Why not?

Wouldn't that mean that Mossberg passed the military's tests?

If it's good enough for our fighting GI's, it's good enough for me. :)

Brad Clodfelter
April 11, 2009, 09:29 PM
The Moss 500 isn't a bad shotgun. I know they can last a long time.

I can tell you that more turkey hunters shoot a 870 Express camo version than any other shotgun out there. It's by far the most popular shotgun on the market. If they were in fact junk, these guys wouldn't use them. They would go to something else that did and shot just as good. Remington 870's have stood the test of time. Do they make some with problems? You bet. But the majority of shooters who buy one 870 Express either owns another or probably plans on getting another.

Some of these guys that own these guns, shoot and test loads all year round.

These guys love them.

Very few are using a Moss 500.

I know.

Brad Clodfelter
April 11, 2009, 09:38 PM
These guys that test these Nitro, TSS, or Hevi-Shot loads year round are ate up with finding the best shooting load they can find to shoot a gobbler with.

Go see for yourself what a lot of these guys are shooting.

Say the words 870 Express. :)

http://oldgobbler.com/TheForum/index.php

TMackey
April 12, 2009, 06:26 AM
Say the words 870 Express.

OK

I will never waste my money on another 870 express again. :D

Brad Clodfelter
April 12, 2009, 09:36 AM
You just need to shoot a good one that is trouble free like mine. It has functioned flawlessly over the last 12 years or so. It shoots dead on and throws a mean pattern. It fits perfectly in my hands, and cycles smoothly. The forearm doesn't have all the slop in it, and the barrel is machined to perfection.

I sure like it. :)

Katrina Guy
April 12, 2009, 11:21 AM
And who's to say that other mfgs couldn't have passed the test!???
Pass the test and come in cheaper, bingo. This means the overall best out there? Let's see now, then of course since most of the governmental autombiles seem to be Ford Crown Vics and Taruses, ok then of course Fords must be the best out there otherwise of course the govenrment would not consider them...makes me wonder how Mercedes, BMW, and Volvo are able to stay in biz.

TMackey
April 12, 2009, 11:57 AM
Pass the test and come in cheaper, bingo.

Sounds like my kind of shotgun. ;)

scorpion_tyr
April 12, 2009, 01:01 PM
When the Army looked into replacing the M16 and the M4 they hosted a test that reviewed many different rifles. One in particular was the HK M416. During the test one of the things they looked at was number of failures per 10,000 rounds. Only two different rifles didn't have a failure in the first 10,000. Only one didn't have a failure in the second. In fact during the rest of the test over the next few days the M416 did not fail at all. It proved to be better than all the other rifles competing for the spot.

The US Army chose not to accept any of them, but they refused to even seriously consider the HK. Why? Because it was too expensive. Could they afford it? Without a doubt. The US Military (all branches) very rarely choose the best product. They choose the cheapest. And when it comes to passing the "test"... those test don't really have a pass/fail score. They simply test several different competitors against each other and the one that gives them the cheapest price wins. IMO There's nothing wrong with Mossberg at all and it's a great choice, but there are several weapons that are good enough for the military, but you can't pay me to own them.

Also the military is not concerned with the same criteria that a person looking for a HD shotgun is concerned with. Seriously, do you ever expect to use that bayonet?

RockyTop
April 13, 2009, 09:22 PM
Is there a difference between the Mossberg 500a and the Mossberg 500 that Walmart sells?

I saw a used 28" wood Mossberg 500a at a local pawn shop for $229, while Walmart sells a new 28" 500 for $207. Am I missing something?

Doyle
April 14, 2009, 07:30 AM
Is there a difference between the Mossberg 500a and the Mossberg 500 that Walmart sells?

No. There might be some dealers that offer a fancier stock (wood vs plastic) but the internals are the same.

That being said, there have been some changes throughout the years so the ones sold at Walmart today might look somewhat different than a 10 year old version you find at a pawn shop. Some of the changes haven't exactly been for the best.

RockyTop
April 14, 2009, 07:43 AM
No. There might be some dealers that offer a fancier stock (wood vs plastic) but the internals are the same.

That being said, there have been some changes throughout the years so the ones sold at Walmart today might look somewhat different than a 10 year old version you find at a pawn shop. Some of the changes haven't exactly been for the best.


Thanks. I've just started looking into these and didn't know if the used ones I saw were better or if the pawn shop was just trying to pull something. I'm not sure what year the used one was but it did look to have a nicer stock than the Walmart version.

kiwicrusaders
April 15, 2009, 02:05 AM
Get the Browning BPS in 26 inch ... infinately better than both the Mossberg and the Remington. I have one and am very very happy. BEst pump on the market hands down !

Regolith
April 15, 2009, 03:16 AM
The Mossberg 590 was chosen by the military because they were the only ones who submitted a shotgun for testing. Remington didn't need the contract as they had the LEO and civilian market pretty tied up.

It should be noted that the military sent the first 590 prototype back for changes, because the first one didn't meet their specs. It was based on the 500 model.

The Mossberg is a decent gun, but it isn't nearly as good as some are making it out to be. The plastic safety tends to fail a lot, and that's usually the first piece replaced. The fit and finish isn't all that great, even compared to an 870 express. They are fairly reliable, though, if you don't count the safety.

I would say that the 870 is a better shotgun, though. Better fit and finish, and a slightly more solid design. That includes the Express line. You pay for the more solid design in weight, though. It is not a light gun, mostly due to the steel reciever vs. the aluminum one on the Mossberg.

The placement of the controls is slightly more convenient on the Mossberg, but with practice the 870's controls are very easy to get used to.

I have an 870 express, and the only real complaint I have about it is the blueing. They bead-blast the blueing to finish it, rather than the polishing they give to their Wingmaster's series. It makes for a fairly rough texture, and it tends to pick up dirt and grit a little too easily. Other than that it has worked flawlessly since I got it. I haven't had any rusting problems, either, and I don't baby my guns.

ramp_tech
April 15, 2009, 04:12 AM
I had both Mossberg 500A 28" with wood stock and Remington 870 Express in 12ga.

Sold the Remington after I landed my hands on the Mossberg.
They both were great gun, but the Mossberg is cheaper to play with!

Enoy21
April 15, 2009, 02:07 PM
(((edit sorry wrong thread )))

Maromero
April 15, 2009, 02:31 PM
A good Mossberg well-maintained will last forever. Same with Remington. they're both great guns. But to a mall ninja, reputation is everything.

Words of Wisdom!

ChicagoMike
May 1, 2009, 08:40 AM
I'm no expert in shotguns.... so when I was looking for a good pump I asked my local gunsmith. He pointed me to a 870 12ga w/28" barrel and for the price of $300 I didn't question him. :D

Katrina Guy
May 1, 2009, 08:48 AM
...regarding longevity more then likely, which the 870 (depending on which "870" were are talking about). You should be looking at which of the two in question, 500 vs 870 has control layouts more conducive to what I guess may be dubbed, a combat layout. There lays the major difference between the two models, that is to say which of the two models has a slide release one can access without fiddling with or switching hands to access, and which model's safety is to your liking. Difference between sitting in a duck blind and sitting in your easy chair, awaiting ducks or trouble.

Kmar40
May 1, 2009, 04:30 PM
Is there a difference between the Mossberg 500a and the Mossberg 500 that Walmart sells? 500a, 500b, and 500c refer to the action sizes and gauge. I think 500a is 12g, 500b is 16g, 500c is 20g and and 500d is the 410 action, assuming this is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_500 I seem to remember there being a 500e also though. Maybe that was later named the 505 action.

inSight-NEO
May 1, 2009, 04:45 PM
Anyone who knows about pump shotguns can tell you that the 870 is the shotgun that all other pumps wished they could beat. No other pump shotgun will touch them.

That may have been true "back in the day," but regarding "todays" shotguns, I must disagree with your declaration. The Benelli SuperNova, for instance (in my case the Tactical model), is certainly just as strong, well designed and well made as any 870 Express Ive ever seen or handled. In fact, in alot of respects, the Benelli SN is actually superior, IMHO. Is it perfect? Nope. But then again, neither is the Express. Those (who know about shotguns) and who have handled the SNT of mine, always seem impressed.

In regards to Mossberg: The Mossberg 590 (maybe not the 500..dont know) certainly could give the 870 Express a run for its money in the "overall" category, IMHO. Besides, those who prefer Mossberg probably do so due for its simplicity and somewhat different take on various features. Nothing wrong with that....

But, as has been mentioned before, any of these shotguns will last at least a lifetime...maybe 2 or more. It's mainly up to how well the weapon is cared for. To simply gauge a weapon by how well it stands up to neglect/abuse (as many do) is somewhat counter productive. I mean, if one is in the habit of neglecting/abusing a weapon, or anything for that matter, why bother owning it in the first place?

As a final thought: Which shotgun (Benelli, Mossberg, Remington, Browning, etc.) is "better" can sometimes be misleading. To some, "better" could mean all sorts of things. The whole durability stuff aside, things such as features, parts availability and cost, aftermarket support, CS strengths/weaknesses, "feel" and/or "look," etc., etc., ad nauseum, will probably mean just as much, if not more, when it comes to deciding which is "best." To me, the word "best" can sometimes be a very, very subjective word.

CajunBass
May 2, 2009, 03:49 AM
Back in 1976 I bought a Sears/Mossberg 12 ga pump. It was on sale for $99.00 with a 28" modified and a 24" smoothbore, rifle sight slug barrel. I've never used the slug barrel, it gathers dust in the gun cabinet, but with the modified barrel, it's put every deer it's been pointed at on the ground. That thing shoots No 1 buckshot great. It's killed a few squirrels and doves in it's time too. It's jammed exactly one time, and I know for a fact that I short shucked it that time. My fault, not the guns.

Now you fellows who duck and goose hunt probably put more rounds through a gun in one hunt or at least one season than I have mine since I've owned it, but that Mossberg has worked just fine for me over the years. The Wingmaster is a much nicer gun, but I don't know if it's any "better." I don't know much about the express, but I'd guess it's a good gun too.

A few weeks ago though when I went looking a 20 ga. pump, I bought a Mossberg. It seems to be about the same as the old Sears gun. The stock is a little different but that's about it. It'll do the job.