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Miller77
April 4, 2009, 07:41 PM
Im planning on getting a new rifle some time in the near future. I want some thing that i can use for deer, bear and possibly elk hunting. I am leaning towards a 308. I want the gun to be accurate and fun to shoot at the range but i will also be using it for hunting. I am thinking about a DPMS LR-308 or the Rock River Arms LAR-8 Varmint A4. I like those because of the stainless barrels and the good accuracy. The only concern i have is that they weigh 11 some pounds and i can foresee them being a pain to carry around. Does any one have any experience hunting with these guns or others that are similar?

snipecatcher
April 4, 2009, 07:49 PM
I have a Bushmaster Predator that I have hunted with several times, and walked up to ~4 miles. It is a heavy rifle. I prefer my synthetic stock Savage because it weighs a WHOLE lot less than the AR and the AR is just sort of unwieldy when walking through brush/etc. While there is nothing wrong with hunting with an AR, you should also take into account the odd looks and possible harassment you may get while after elk or the like with one. I would suggest getting an AR in 223 because it is cheaper/more fun to shoot (less recoil) and having a second gun (lightweight bolt action in something like .270 or 30/06) for hunting.
-Dan

.351winchester
April 4, 2009, 08:08 PM
You could get a .223 size AR in 6.5 Grendel, close enough to a .308 or .260 for hunting purposes/ranges. And allows standard AR spare uppers (.22LR for plinking or small game, .458 Socom for brush or hog hunting with .45/70 or 12 Ga slug level close range power, in unmodified .223 mags also, you can even get a 10 rd side mag fed .50 BMG bolt action upper for it). That 6.5 could be around 7 lbs. dry including glass

Miller77
April 4, 2009, 08:22 PM
yeah, i realize i would be better off getting a couple rifles better suited for each situation. . . But i dont have the money to spend on two rifles. Ill likely be hunting more than at the range. I wont be going to the range more than once a month and wont be going through a ton of rounds if i do. I wouldnt mind just getting a nice savage or remington bolt action, but i just figure it would be fun to own and shoot a AR. Is accuracy affected much between a regular and a heavy barrel?

zoomie
April 4, 2009, 08:28 PM
I agree an AR-15 in 6.5 or 6.8 or x39 would be much nicer to carry, especially chasing elk in the mountains.

If you are set on an AR-10ish rifle, I sure wouldn't get the bull barrel you find on the RRA and DPMS rifles. The Remington R-25 is lighter at 9 lbs, but of course that's before optics. If you do get an AR-10 - especially if it's more for hunting than range, you might look at lightening it where you can. A skeleton stock, a low profile gas block, 18" barrel, lighter barrel profile, lightweight (maybe even carbon fiber) handguards, lightweight (but still quality) scope, low capacity mags...

Here are a ton of configurations with specs.

http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/index.php

http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/home_img/Light_Pro_Hunter_1.gif

I carried my bull barrel RRA Varminter .223 chasing hogs for a little while before I decided it was too much and sent the barrel in to be recontoured, changed out the handguard to a lighter version, changed out the A2 stock, and put on a lightweight optic. It's much nicer now to carry around and still shoots nice.

Miller77
April 4, 2009, 08:32 PM
Id say 90 percent of my hunting is/will be from a stand. but im am thinking about the lighter set ups

HiBC
April 4, 2009, 08:59 PM
The DPMS LR 308 L is 7.9 lbs,I believe.

I dunno,hunting is about aiming and squeezing the first one to the right place.

An AR can do that as well as a bolt gun or a Ruger #1.The reverse is true,also.

I call them just another rifle.Most states limit you to a 5 rd mag,and more won't help.

You can get a lighter,handier 308.Its all about what you prefer.

PRONE2
April 4, 2009, 09:04 PM
I use my armalite ar10 a4 for almost everything from deer to boar to yotes. Yah it's a little on the hefty side, but it shoulders quick and goes "boom" every time! And 400 plus yards is no problem. IMO it's a good all around gun, and yes it's a blast at the range.

globemaster3
April 4, 2009, 09:07 PM
I've got an LR308B (18" bull) and hunted with it the first time in Jan this year on a cull hunt in TX. Lots of fun to shoot and more accurate than I am. Yes, it is heavier than my Model 700 in .308. I haven't weighed it, but its got some heft.

I had the opportunity to fondle one with a 24" bull and that one was definitely up in the 11 lb range. Mine is about as heavy a rifle as I'd want to carry any significant distance.

As far as going with one of the shorter rounds in the AR-15 format, look at their energy levels before you commit to going small. Since you mentioned elk and bear, you really don't want to go into the woods with a 7.62 X 39 as was suggested.

Miller77
April 4, 2009, 09:09 PM
how does the accuracy compare from a heavy bull barrel to your armorlite or the dpms lr-308L? is it very noticeable?

zoomie
April 4, 2009, 09:16 PM
The DPMS LR 308 L is 7.9 lbs,I believe.
Nevermind - I missed the L at the end. You're right. And I'd sure look at the L version over the normal LR-308 for any kind of walk-and-stalk hunting.

flyboy14
April 5, 2009, 11:50 AM
I have the dpms lr-308, with the 24" bull. Without scope its 11 lbs, and yes it

is heavy to pack around. Took it deer hunting this fall, lots of walking, and

its hard to forget you are carrying a rifle. Thinking about getting a lighter

barrelled upper for hunting. The bull barrell is scary accurate. I know that

dpms makes a 308 specifically for hunting. Can't remember the weight, but I

handled one when I bought mine. Check out the website. Can't really say

much about the accuracy of the pencil barrell, haven't shot one. good luck

flyboy

OLNfan
April 5, 2009, 12:34 PM
They seem like really nice rifles, but I think that an ar doesnt really follow hunters edicate, I dont mind too much but sometimes you end up going on hunts with a few guys you've never met and they will likely rag on you for using a ar style rifle to hunt with. I think it would be nice/exciting/cool thing to try but I know if I went with my dads friends I would bring an actual hunting rifle hah. but thats just me.

zoomie
April 5, 2009, 12:55 PM
They seem like really nice rifles, but I think that an ar doesnt really follow hunters edicate, I dont mind too much but sometimes you end up going on hunts with a few guys you've never met and they will likely rag on you for using a ar style rifle to hunt with. I think it would be nice/exciting/cool thing to try but I know if I went with my dads friends I would bring an actual hunting rifle hah. but thats just me.
You imply an AR isn't an "actual hunting rifle," or at least you imply your Dad's friends wouldn't think so. So tell me... how is an AR-10 different from a Browning Lightweight Stalker (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=008)? Both are all black with composite stocks. Both can be had in .308 Win with a 20" barrel. Both will probably wear a scope. Both have a detachable box magazine. So what makes the BAR an "actual hunting rifle" and the AR-10 not?

Miller77
April 5, 2009, 02:42 PM
I agree i don't see much of a difference with a BAR or R1 compared to hunting with a dpms with a 4 shot magazine. I could see someone saying something if im walking around with the 19 shot magazine but thats something i just wont be doing.

So i think ive about narrowed it down to the LR-308L or the 308B from DPMS. Im just debating if i want the bull barrel or not. both have 18" barrels. Is the 18" sufficient for getting the most out of the charge?

zoomie
April 5, 2009, 04:13 PM
So i think ive about narrowed it down to the LR-308L or the 308B from DPMS. Im just debating if i want the bull barrel or not. both have 18" barrels. Is the 18" sufficient for getting the most out of the charge?
The most? No. Enough? Yes, I think so.

Here's an article addressing the shorter, "tactical" barrels. They cut a 308 barrel from 26" to 18" and say the velocity loss was minimal.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

And I'd only get the bulll barrel if you're going to be shooting multiple shots in quick succession, where the barrel would heat up. For most hunting, you're gonna fire a box to sight it in or check zero, and then a shot or two a day at most to fill your tags. Otherwise it's just extra weight to haul around.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/newforums/showthread.php?p=19834

Miller77
April 5, 2009, 05:18 PM
Nice articles Zoomie, thanks. Thats exactly the answer i was looking for

jgcoastie
April 5, 2009, 08:53 PM
You could also try the Remington R-25 (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-25.asp). I've been looking at getting one in 7mm-08. They're available in .308, .7mm-08, and .243. The camo finish and Remington logo should thwart more than a few of the negative opinions of hunting with a "black rifle". From what I understand, DPMS and Bushmaster are Remington's sister companies, so reliability/quality wouldn't be a real concern...

OLNfan
April 5, 2009, 10:40 PM
Their is a remarkable difference between a BAR and a ar.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=540 bar...

https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/q_images/DPMS-LR308-FLTD_1.jpg ar..

Both very different style of rifles not only in design but internially...if I ever saw someone with an ar style rifle in the bush for one I would think wow why would someone need such a ridiculous rifle for hunting. For two it’s illegal in CANADA unlike you Americans that can bring anything you wish to hunt with. For three it’s against proper edicate (in Canada) again because it’s illegal. If you want a REAL hunting rifle not something Taticool. Get a different rifle. I dont know where you hunt zoomie but IM glad its not in my neck of the woods if you think something along these lines is pratical and acceptable.

22-rimfire
April 5, 2009, 11:07 PM
For me, I'd buy a more traditional rifle for the hunting application. There is the Browning BAR which is a nice rifle chambered in suitable calibers. Weight is important and I don't lke lugging around a 10 lb rifle just because I want to take an AR hunting. I undestand you are buying for flexibility and still satisfying your urge for an AR. There are cheaper military style rifles that would work as well. You really don't need a semi-auto rifle for most hunting applications. Usually one shot is all you need. Last time I checked, it's still a pretty free country, so get what you want. :)

I'd pick up a 5.56/223 AR for varmint hunting, plinking, and range shooting. I'd do this when I could afford it, but take care of the hunting need first.

globemaster3
April 5, 2009, 11:31 PM
OLN, your obviously biased opinions are blinding your judgement.

There is absolutely no difference in effect between an AR, Reminton 7400, Browning BAR, Winchester 100, or any other semi-auto hunting rifle anywhere else in the world. You pull the trigger, the gun goes bang, another round is loaded, done. It doesn't matter if its inertia driven or gas, the result is the same. Most places in the US require 5 round capacity for hunting, so its not like everyone who hunts with an AR is hitting the woods with a 20 or 30 round magazine.

Likewise with the tactical piece. I feel I can justifiably say MOST of those who carry an AR into the woods for hunting do NOT have it rigged out tactically since all of those items would just create more weight.

Just because YOU don't think its right, or that it's some sort of breach of etiquette in YOUR deer camp absolutely carries no weight anywhere else. Especially in MY country where this is not only LEGAL, but accepted.

So, you like Moosedrool, eh?

Tree Fiddy
April 5, 2009, 11:35 PM
Etiquette is only important if you have to make a good impression. Otherwise, it's about what you are comfortable with and what gets the job done.

Miller77
April 5, 2009, 11:37 PM
OLNfan, what is illegal in canada? Is it because of pistol grips and what not or is it the actual action of the gun?


I agree that i dont want to be carrying around a bunch of weight. The DPMS that i am looking at only weighs 7 oz more than a BAR in the same caliber so thats not really a big issue for me. Im not torn between an AR vs another semi auto rifle as much as i am between an AR and Bolt action rifle. I would like to get the AR because it would be fun to shoot when im not hunting. But when I am out in the woods it would be able to produce the one shot to kill the deer just as well as a bolt action would. i would obviously like to get one of each, an AR in 223 and a bolt in a larger caliber, but i only have the money for one gun for the next few years and need to decide on one that i can use for everything.

HiBC
April 6, 2009, 02:09 AM
I,myself,am a relatively old school guy.
My younger brother rediscovered his interest in shooting when we were playing with my FN-FAL.He said,I gotta have one.I suggested an AR-10 had greater accuracy potential.He got an AR-10T.It is a half minute rifle.

I gave him Sierra's Ballistic program,helped him develop loads.He is an excellent student,and can prone and bipod a clay pigion @ 500 yds about whenever he wants to.

I laugh at him,ask him why he carries that pig,tell him as well as he shoots,he could use a Ruger #1 single shot.He carries that rifle hunting deer,elk,and antelope.He does a wonderful job of one shot,one kill.

You know,at one time,flintlock people disdained caplock people,then some clung to the Hawkin while others embraced brass cartridge cases.Doggone Sharps and Rolling Blocks and Ballards and Stevens.
Then what happened? Winchester lever repeating rifles!! Who needs more than one good shot?

Those pesky Germans made a Mauser,and let's not forget Krags and Smellies!!

Now,we all know,those are'nt really rifles,they are bayonet handles that you can shoot while trying to suck your way down into the mud with your belly button.

Then veterans rather liked them,and the DCM sold milsurps for dirt cheeap and the American Gunsmith started building the modern bolt action rifle.
These guys,the pioneers of the modern hunting rifle,are disdained as bubbas by the milsurp collector today.

Townsend Whelen said "Only accurate rifles are interesting".I agree with him.

The AR platform will deliver an accurate rifle in .308.or,my brother got a topend in .300 Rem short mag.

So,some,still today,do not accept smokeless powder.Good for them!!.They are happy,and they can shoot.Do we have your permission/approval to use a scope? Are we required to cut white line spacers from bleach bottles to put under our recoil pads?

I think it is silly to put down the folks who embrace the modern tech rifles.
There is nothing wrong with a .308.There is nothing wrong with a rifle that self loads.
If the hunter carrying it can ethically place a shot for a clean kill *** is the problem? If there is a problem,it is only in the minds of those who have a problem.

For what it is worth,generally I choose between my Mexican Mauser in .257 AI or my 1952 Belgian FN bolt rifle in .375 Chatfield-Taylor.

THey both have foam core fiberglass and kevlar stocks by Garret Accra-lite.

And I have the most perfect ,beautiful blank of bastogne walnut you coud imagine in the closet.I get rained on,snowed on,crawl on my belly,etc.Why beat up nice wood?

I use an ugly,spray painted camo bolt gun to hunt.

You sir,may come to field with a M-71 Win,a Griffin and Howe sporter,a Rigby,a Farquharsen,a Frazier,or any other beautiful and classic rifle.

I will measure you ,not by your rifle,but by your company and hunting ethic.

And a man,woman,boy or girl with a 788 Rem,a SMLE,a Marlin 30-30,or black rifle just might be far better company than someone who denigrates another hunters .308.Even if it is of a modern design.

zoomie
April 6, 2009, 06:42 AM
Their is a remarkable difference between a BAR and a ar....Both very different style of rifles not only in design but internially...
What are the internal differences between the BAR and AR-10? I must be foolish to think that two gas operated semi-autos are the same design.
For two it’s illegal in CANADA unlike you Americans that can bring anything you wish to hunt with. For three it’s against proper edicate (in Canada) again because it’s illegal.
I sense some disdain in that comment. Legalities and "edicate" are unrelated.
If you want a REAL hunting rifle not something Taticool. Get a different rifle.
Still waiting to hear why the AR isn't a real hunting rifle. My AR has a sling and a scope. If that makes it tacticool, I guess my A-Bolt .308 is tacticool, too. Oh, my Rem 700 .243 has a sling and scope. Tacticool Remington 700s.
I dont know where you hunt zoomie but IM glad its not in my neck of the woods if you think something along these lines is pratical and acceptable.
What a shame. I'd like to hunt Black Bear in BC.

Annoy a fudd. Use facts and logic.

OLNfan
April 6, 2009, 10:09 AM
you can hunt black bear IN B.C....just not with an ASSAULT RIFLE. (its illegal, same with baiting) I didn’t say it was a horrible idea I said it was cool but I’m just trying to let him know that some people might see it as you’re using a taticool ninja mall special on a beautiful traditional sport and some people might take offence to it. If I saw you I would be like wow nice rifle kind of weird your hunting with that but cool. I’m sure alot of other people would be ruder than that, as for me I would just be curious why you were using it. But if you are legally allowed to hunt with that in your area cool if not cool too.


Miller77 what is illegal in Canada? Its illegal in Canada to take a pistol or assault rifle in the bush for ANY purpose. these are listed as restricted firearms and are only ALLOWED to be shot in a rod n gun shooting range. If I were to take my ar-15 imperial defence, glock 9mm, 38 special s&w revolver in the bush and was caught be a CO I would get my firearm taken away from me, a fine, and if I were rude about the situation he could go as far as a court date, and take away my firearm licenses. There are 3 classes of firearms Non-restricted (hunting rifles/shotguns) Restricted firearms (pistols/ semi auto military rifles) Prohibited (Fully auto anything, and anything with a barrel less than 2 inches I believe so anything conceal carry that you guys have in the states is prohibited in Canada) the first two licences are available to the public upon taking courses and writing a few easy tests, background checks etc. this can take up to 6 months each licence. The prohibited is not available to civilians any more as of 1990 something.

as for GLOBEMASTER and ZOOOMIE who asked what the difference is it varies from short, medium and long strokes for gas cylinders. giving also different ports. Safari, ShortTrac/LongTrac, and Lightweight Stalker. cover all calibers and all have different gas systems for optiomal muzzle break/recoil reducer acuraccy using the BOSS (Ballistic Optimizing Shooting System). where the AR style rilfes have A Direct impingement. Two diffrent gas systems thus making the BAR and AR different internially and exterinally.

davlandrum
April 6, 2009, 04:16 PM
OLN - Harsh restrictions. I was hoping to go to Canada on a bear hunt with my .460 SW, but looks like that is out of the question. You can't even carry a side-arm while hunting.

Are there semi-autos that are non-restricted? I think that was what some of the earlier posts were trying to determine - how is one semi-auto in .308 any different from another semi .308?

zoomie
April 6, 2009, 07:15 PM
Two different gas systems thus making the BAR and AR different internally and externally.
Oh ok. Well then the BAR is functionally the exact same as a semi-automatic AK-47? A gas piston. Neither of which is an assault rifle. How bout if I used a piston AR? I guess if you're not going to concede, I'll quit trying to point out the flaws in the "ARs aren't for hunting" logic.

OLNfan
April 7, 2009, 12:03 AM
Illl just PM you davlandrum.

as for zoomie anything thats fully auto=restricted so ak47=restrcited..GRANTED theirs a loop hole a few companys have come out with ak47 look-a-like rifles that are semi auto http://www.wanstalls.com/Tactical-Rifles/files/page16-1005-full.html that you can purchase with a non-restrcited why? I dont know.

http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm this might help with our classes.
http://www.firearmstraining.ca/licences.htm this will help also.

and as for the ar's not being hunting rifles I would certinaly give it a try it it were legal, those remington ar varmit rifles would be fun chamberd in a 308 would be even better. but since its illegal Im bias on the decision to advise a different rifle. but if its legal in your area rock on giver sh*t

globemaster3
April 8, 2009, 01:34 PM
OLN, regardless of their operating system (impingement, intertia) the results are the SAME. Pull trigger, gun loads another. Who cares how in terms of hunting results?

BUT, I think I might have found the rub here where we are getting our lines crossed.

as for zoomie anything thats fully auto=restricted so ak47=restrcited

Since you are not used to these weapons, you do realize ours are semi-auto, right? The AR-15s and -10s (and throw the LR308s in there) are not selective fire. You cannot select full auto and start shooting 30 rounds strings. They are semi-auto only, like the BAR, Winchester 88, Remington 7400, etc.

sc928porsche
April 11, 2009, 12:49 PM
In most states, you will not be able to hunt deer with 223. If it were me, I would opt for the 308.

a7mmnut
April 11, 2009, 01:01 PM
Yet another reason NOT to go to Canada:barf:. Olympic Arms makes many uppers in calibers others don't offer, like the WSSM's and such. You can buy one rifle, then switch from .22 to .500 bore on a single shot frame. For magazine-fed shooting, you'll have to match the size of the round to fit the mag well. -7-

FrontSight
April 11, 2009, 09:41 PM
HiBC, that was very beautifull put!

OLN, do you even know what you are talking about? Do you even realize that you are a puppet of the media? That they have hijacked your mind & control how you think??

AR-15's, AR-10's and most AK-47's in civilian hands are not assault rifles. The definition of an assault rifle is fully-automatic; a machine gun. AR-15's, AR-10's and most AK-47's in civilian hands are SEMI-automatic, same as any other semi auto style of rifle you see out there.

You have heard "assault rifle" repeated over & over in the media until you just swallowed it as truth, and didn't even THINK to question where that phrase came from & why.

Stop listening to your media and politicians; they are bad for your brain.