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View Full Version : This just ticks me off video


OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 12:17 AM
-----------...........,,,,,,,,,,,,00000000--------------- video gone discussion ended

Hirlau
March 31, 2009, 12:43 AM
I agree 100%. This is not hunting. Wonder if they had cable TV in the stand to keep them busy, waiting for Boo-Boo to arrive? :mad::mad:

stonedog406
March 31, 2009, 12:45 AM
Doesn't look like much of a "hunt" to me.

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 12:57 AM
thanks guys Im glad you guys agree! I meen theirs alot of forms of hunting. but this isnt one.

stonedog406
March 31, 2009, 12:59 AM
Looks more like a "gopher" hunt to me!

fireaway329
March 31, 2009, 01:01 AM
i total agree that is not any form of hunting it makes me sick to my stomach why are the parents teaching kids this is how you hunt it is like going to the fish hatchery to go fishing any moron can do that all i can say there is something wrong with poeple

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 01:06 AM
It is sick isnt it. All I can hope for is a mama bear catches whats going on while her cubs by the barrels, straight charge at those "hunters" see how quick that kid is while he's sitting in his chair with his bi pod.

flippycat
March 31, 2009, 01:19 AM
wow just pitiful imo. I was kinda hoping that last large $hitty shot sob who had to shoot it 6 times was mauled by another bear in the area on his way over to finally put it down.

I feel the same way about food baiting any game animal in. If you do not have the skills to track a run, look for a rub or know where they naturally feed and know where to put your stand then you have no business in the woods.

This style of killing is strictly about money to the outfitter and an ego boost to the shooter and nothing to do with hunting.

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 01:34 AM
I havnt watched passed the first 1min and 40 seconds, got me to angry. glad to hear your against it aswell. I agree 100% with your hunting tatics/knowledge their the same as mine.

Shorthair
March 31, 2009, 07:46 AM
None of you people have hunted or have a clue about hunting bears over bait in Canada, apparently. To me, you all sound like a bunch of birkenstock-wearing organic-arugula-munching PETA freaks.
I have no desire whatsoever to hunt in this fashion, none at all. The very idea of hunting bears has no appeal to me at all. But this is legal, and a traditionally accepted practice not only in Canada but in my home state of Michigan as well. All of you with wildlife biology degrees, please state your scientific reason for the superiority of your position. Tell us why this is an unacceptable wildlife management tool. All of you lawyers, please tell us what laws were violated and what legal remedy you propose to alleviate Yogi Bear of this immoral practice.
If any of you hunt, there are going to be people who criticize your methods, your game of choice. They want to rob you of YOUR chosen methods. "You bird hunters waste hundreds of dollars traipsing through the bird's habitat in order to satisfy your blood lust." "You whitetail hunters who hunt over bait or crops or scent or deer crack, well its obvious you are compensating for the inadequacies you suffer below your beer belly."
I think its appropriate that watching something die - anything - makes us uncomfortable. I hunt and the worst part of it for me is the kill, and I hate the sit-com hunting shows on Versus and OLN on Saturday mornings that glorify the kill shot and not much else. That gives me no right to pontificate my righteous indignation simply because I disagree with people legally practicing the methods of sound game management as dictated by the game management authorities in their hunting area.

12GaugeShuggoth
March 31, 2009, 08:11 AM
As much as I detest baiting any game (that's a point to be made at another time), I am inclined to agree with Shorthair on this. Just because I don't like something doesn't necessarily mean I'm right or that the other person is wrong, it just means we see things differently. If I lived in a high bear area I might see things differently, but as it is I don't.

FWIW, I didn't watch more than 45 or so seconds, that was all I needed to see to form a pretty good guess about how the rest of the video would be. Everybody has their own way of going about things, there's always going to be someone out there who disagrees.

Dingoboyx
March 31, 2009, 08:20 AM
They probably think we are all rrr's holes like them. I bet they are so proud to call themselves BEAR HUNTERS :barf:

I have posted this pic to show you guys how those idiots pass their spare time.... while not out bravely hunting bears.....

Muzza

Shorthair
March 31, 2009, 08:28 AM
Hey Dingo.... what do you hunt in Australia, and how do you hunt it?

hogdogs
March 31, 2009, 08:41 AM
My qualms with this method of "control" is that is named "HUNTING" when in actuality it is sittin' and shootin'. And the suckers gotta shell out some serious Benjamins to do it!:mad: Call a spade a spade fer cryin' out loud. That is all I ask. Nuisance wildlife control! I don't care if they are snared and hung by a rear leg until starved to death just don't call it huntin'!
I did paid pest control of the bugs and rodent variety for years and never once had some one offer to pay me to take them "hunting". I also would never expect some one to drive 10 hours to come here just to walk up to a trap with a hog in it and call that hunting.
I have an open offer to those wanting to try hog doggin' and can at times get permission from the farmer/landowner to allow me to take a select few into their swamps for a try with firearms. Those are hunts in their purest forms and many folks will charge someone for this and many are willing to pay for it. I rather not go "pro guide" nor do I want to make it a business transaction as I rather it be just a redneck guy sharing a different style of hunt on a different critter in a different environment. I do accept tips though:D
Brent

Dingoboyx
March 31, 2009, 08:43 AM
we do it the normal way, we stalk the deer (in season) Hunt the hogs on foot or on bikes and shoot the roos when farmers ask us to. Also foxes and rabbits of course. Some farmers bait roos, foxes and rabbits, but they die a terrible long death.... Well placed bullets are much more humane.
No one I know lures them with food, and shoots them from the safety of a treehouse....

The last couple of roo shoots I have been on, was a terrible sight.... the farmer had only 25% of the steers he usually keeps, because the roos had eaten the grass (roots and all, as they do) and the roos were starving too, was awful

Dustin0
March 31, 2009, 08:45 AM
Canned hunts like that are just wrong. They might as well be shooting live stock. Its about the same thing.

elkman06
March 31, 2009, 08:46 AM
It's decided I guess. All of you eastern hunters who have spent thousands of dollars managing food plots, setting up feeders, salt licks and what nought are now no longer hunters and must stop immediately because you are giving the rest of us guys a bad name. This is not hunting, it is baiting and the birkenstock boys demand it. They also will no longer hunt out of blinds, etc.

Face it guys, it's just like hunting hogs w/ dogs. It does not appeal to me but there is some rich history in doing these types of hunts. I once saw a filmed hunt out of the southeast involving dogs and at the last moment a celebrity stepped up to a cornered hog and blasted him w/ a .45. It did not present itself to an anti as an honorable means to hunt. It is their right and legal to do so. Some of you need to quit dealing in absolutes,,your life will be better for it.
elkman06

Dingoboyx
March 31, 2009, 08:57 AM
Each to their own, I guess. I think it must be as exciting as clubbing baby seals, I just wish I hadnt looked at the video..... ruined my day

My opinion only, like I said, each to their own :D

Muzza

12GaugeShuggoth
March 31, 2009, 09:07 AM
All of you eastern hunters who have spent thousands of dollars managing food plots, setting up feeders, salt licks and what nought are now no longer hunters and must stop immediately because you are giving the rest of us guys a bad name.

I am an eastern hunter and do none of that. The only food plots we have were only planted because the fields that had in years past given a lot of food to the local wildlife haven't been utilized for crops during this past year, and for the record quite a large portion of our "food plots" are really just large gardens that we've planted. Deer can tear up a turnip patch :eek:

I also don't hunt out of blinds, or big box tree stands. IF I'm in a tree stand it's just a simple climber, but most of my hunting is done on the ground, stalking through the woods. I know you were just trying to prove a point, but I had to respond for the fun of it.:D

Like I said in my previous post, everyone has a different way of doing things and there's always going to be someone who disagrees with it. I don't care for long range rifle hunting, but I understand that there are places where that's pretty much the only viable way of hunting a deer. I despise the local hunt clubs who run dogs because the people are a$$holes who have no respect for other hunters, private property, or even their own dogs but I know that there are dog runners who are the opposite of that. Listening to people up here like Hogdogs always reminds me that not all dog runners are jerks who aim guns at you while trespassing on private property (true story).

I think everyone has to deal with it eventually, not everyone is going to agree about how things should be done. I can't stand baiting of any kind, but that doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly legal in some places and is an accepted form of hunting.

djohn
March 31, 2009, 09:18 AM
Guys My hunting experience is pretty much Zilch, just not my thing I guess but that video just urks me.Where is the sportsmanship in that hunt and IMO that should be illegal.Like I said Zilch Hunting experience but something seriously wrong with that example of Hunting.

elkman06
March 31, 2009, 09:25 AM
hunting is done on the ground, stalking through the woods
Me too.

but I had to respond for the fun of it.

And once again, Me too.

Nope: to each his own. I have a friend who runs lions w/ dogs. Exciting to say the least, just not my bag. He's offered countless times to take me. Although I haven't, I would take a bear over bait. Once you have faced a 500lb bear on the ground w/o a rifle, you understand the need for extreme advantage over these critters.
elkman06

Dingoboyx
March 31, 2009, 09:46 AM
When I hunt, I go where they go.... I go dressed up like a pine tree or a shrub or something (apart from roos, but when they are starving, it is terrible to see.... they are going to turn up their toes soon anyway) Sure, we track them (deer, pigs, goats) and find their watering holes etc, but we HUNT them, fair and square. IMO it is very rewarding.

One mate of mine went on a roo shoot for a farmer (one of the ones I mentioned earlier) they were just coming out of a drought, the roos were eating anything they planted and were still starving, the farmer asked for help. Ted and a few of the guys obliged, went to his farm near lightening ridge. The rules were, leave them where they drop, but dont leave any on the road thru the property, & shoot as many as you can. Ted took his trusty 223 and 1000 rounds. The roos had never seen people and it turned into a bit of a shooting gallery. Ted, a keen hunter, wasnt impressed with this, but to do the farmer a favour, he did the shoot anyway. after 2 days, ted had used up his 1000 rounds and was real mad.... he missed with one round :mad:
The other guys bagged a couple of hundred. On the way back to the farm house, they moved any off the road. The farmer was grateful, asked how many they got. Ted said he got 999 and the others 200 or so, the farmer laughed aparently he thought they were exagerating. A week later the farmer rang and was saying he couldnt believe what he saw. He had been up and down the road a dozen times and didnt see a dead roo, til he parked and walked up & over the embankment and saw what he described as
"a scene of utter distruction" he reckoned it looked like WW111, carcases everywhere. Certainly was greatful (stunned) to get rid of so many.

Ted didnt find it sporting to shoot the roos like that, so I can understand the bear shooters taking the easy way and attracting them with food and just nailing them one after the other, but I guess, like Ted, you just have to do what you have to do to get rid of pests :confused:

I'll stick to dressing up like a bush and going after them, but thats just me and my humble opinion :D

Muzza

Brian Pfleuger
March 31, 2009, 10:03 AM
Try bear hunting in the Adirondack mountains. Baiting is illegal but it's how most bear get taken. They are spread far and wide, few are seen unless they are baited. I have no ethical problem with baiting but I won't go because it's illegal. The law is the law.

I find it interesting how the presence of the barrel seems to be the deciding factor.

People "bait" deer and turkey and pigs and other animals all the time. It's just that they generally throw the "bait" on the ground.

I guess that's OK, just don't put it in a barrel?:rolleyes:

flippycat
March 31, 2009, 10:22 AM
Shorthair's, one might think someone hung you by yours the way you went off on your name calling defending spree on anyone who thought the video was not about hunting and shooting fish in a barrel for lack of a better expression.

NOBODY said anything about legal this or legal that, yet your tyrant explosion attacking people personally leads me to a conclusion that regardless on what you may say I feel this maybe one of your preferred "hunting" methods.It would be the only reason imo you went to such personal attacks.

There is a few of you who are retaliating back on this topic standing on the legal soapbox shouting insults at those that disagree on these tactics.

I will repeat it again NOBODY said anything about legal this or legal that.

It is understood it is legal in some places, there is no disputing that.As someone who hunted for many years it is a responsible hunters duty to know the different tactics involved in game harvesting.

This is not about "absolutes" as it was stated. It is about how some were taught about hunting and the needs in doing so, requiring you to know enough about the animal to harvest it in its natural environment. It is taught as a sign of respect for the animal and what it is offering, that it will in turn feed you and your family. I guess you could say the old school values of hunting.

There is a HUGE difference in sport hunters and game hunters! No one is going to argue that, no one is going to argue the legality of it at least me anyways as in this case it is legal to do so.

But do not throw personal insults to justify those tactics because there is some who do not agree that it is "hunting".

Art Eatman
March 31, 2009, 10:32 AM
Hunting over bait has been done for forty forevers. It's just one among many formats.

Just because you--generic you--don't approve of something creates no right to raise a ruckus over how somebody else does within their local hunting culture and style.

The bottom line: If you don't like that style, don't do it.

zoomie
March 31, 2009, 10:33 AM
To everyone who thinks this is wrong:

Do you also gripe and moan about most Texas deer hunting? Put up a timed feeder, a blind, and a high game fence, and wait for them to come eat at 5pm? If you hate them both, ok. If you somehow rationalize that and criticize this, what's the difference?

hogdogs
March 31, 2009, 10:46 AM
Zoomie, Great question! I will answer it in full honesty...
I do not feel the use of any "placed" bait is "fair chase". I barely accept food plots as fair chase but since hunting in a profit earning field is than plots are fair too I reckon. I personally do not use plots for "game" hunting. I have and will put out soured corn to have a starting point for hogs as they travel alot and I am putting forth a bit of cash to get to the farmers place with my always hungry dogs to perform a free service.
If a fella is taking me up on the offer to try hog hunting the swamps, the least I can do is try to insure the hogs will be on the property. It isn't like they will be hovering over the corn but possibly nearby. Other than that, picking a squirrel off a bird feeder for the snake to eat is as far as I go...:D
I am not a sport hunter. I am a meat hunter and a nuisance animal remover.
Brent

Tuzo
March 31, 2009, 10:48 AM
This bear "hunt" is really live target practice.

Several years ago Rush Limbaugh described a duck hunt somewhere in the coastal northeast, maybe Delaware or Maryland. The first day he sat in a blind with friends and a guide, complained about the weather, and shot at several ducks with zero luck. Following day he once again sat in a blind and had phenomenal luck with ducks flying by only a few yards away. That day the guide was releasing captive bred ducks from a nearby cage. Is that considered hunting? Rush Limbaugh thought so but it was really skeet shooting with live clays. Target practice.

A great deal of my professional work was done in parts of Texas. There, many ranches had converted to exotic hunting areas. 10' fence around the ranch, a guide in a safari suit and driving a Range Rover, clients with more money than hunting skill, and exotic game driven into a fenced corner consituted the "hunt." More target practice.

flippycat
March 31, 2009, 10:55 AM
zoomie, my biggest gripe about the whole video and it was my opening line, the ability of that "hunter" at the end to be such a horrible shot he had to shoot it 6 times. Not in the course of a minute, but over the long period it took him to bring his a$$ down from the stand to get close enough to make a vital shot.
me-
I feel the same way about food baiting any game animal in. If you do not have the skills to track a run, look for a rub or know where they naturally feed and know where to put your stand then you have no business in the woods.

I should of clarified my statement above to include "I feel the same way about food baiting any game animal in where the ability to hunt in a natural environment is possible".

I agree some situations call for the lure of an animal. The rattle, the scent, the call. I trapped for roughly 6 years, I understand the need to bait in certain circumstances.

But as stated by hogdogs I believe, the use of the barrels in this video to measure the size of a good kill do nothing to honor the term hunting. It further shows that they do not possess the skills to be in the woods.

I will quote loosely from the video "if it is over the second rib of the barrel it is a good kill"

So not only was one a horrible shot, it seemed none of them knew enough about what they were doing and needed the actual lure to gauge their size.

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 11:15 AM
I dont like the style, AND I dont use it. In B.C. CANADA its illegal. I Can go out and get a black bear in less than 6 hrs with out baiting. AND the thought of baiting has never crossed my mind. I dont know who you think you are but I dont see culture/tradition in a 50 gal drum:) filld with fish but Im glad you approve of a simple shoot (its not a hunt). I could find out the number of these kids parents if you want to go hunting with these city slickers Art Eatmam? I would have to wonder about your hunting experience if you guys thought this was legitimit.

Hirlau
March 31, 2009, 11:29 AM
OLNFAN,
I see your point( I'm with you) and I'm not a hunter, since age 20.
We are on the losing side of this thread, arguing with Art only brings down his wrath(and his supporters) on other thread issues. Lets let this thread die.

Live, to discuss another day.:(

taylorce1
March 31, 2009, 11:32 AM
I thought long and hard about posting on this subject. Hunting over bait from a stand isn't the method I'd prefer, but I've done it pig hunting. So after my rant let the flames begin.

These were all youth hunters who didn't know how to judge a good animal so I think he was using the barrel for their benefit. That was what I thought when I heard the guide say "If it is over the second rib on the barrel it is a good bear." Again a rough translation of what I heard and saw.

The last one was not a pretty kill, but at least the he got him down with the first shot. Nerves probably helped to botch the next series of shots until he walked up and gave it the finishing one. I've botched a few shots hunting as well, but luckily have never lost an animal.

I didn’t like stand hunting as well over bait, but then I realized I do the same thing. I hunt corn, milo, wheat, alfalfa fields, and meadows for deer and elk. How is that any different if I set up overlooking one of these spots than the guy who sets up bait, feeders, salt licks, or food plots? I’d like to think I only hunt spot and stalk but that isn’t the case, a lot of the time I find a good spot to sit and wait and hope something crosses my path that I find worth shooting.

Nor is what they are doing any different than a guy setting up a blind over a water hole waiting for pronghorn, or for that matter African game. Seeing that many animals at least will/can teach patience and the ability to judge a quality animal. This kind of hunting allows for people hunting with disabilities as well who normally couldn’t do spot and stalk.

More often than not my hunting experience has been more about my shooting than my stalking skill. I’ve driven out to a pasture where I was going to hunt pronghorn, as soon as I got out of my truck a bedded doe got up 150 yards away. I pulled out my rifle and shot her, filled my doe tag. No hunting skill involved just got lucky that she hung around to see what I was doing. I then drove my pickup up to her to field dress and load to go home.

Hunting bear in AK, I lost a bear during a long stalk. Gave up and was heading back to the boat. Just walking across an open tidal flat, we got within 200 yards of a bear before we realized it was even a bear. I just sat down, put my rifle on the sticks and shot my bear. No skill there in fact we were about as obvious as a fart in church walking back to the boat, no cover in any direction except where the bear was at.

Shot one of my largest mule deer going to help my dad fix his hay baler. Was driving down the road and spotted him crossing an open field. Parked the truck, grabbed my rifle and orange, ran about a hundred yards sat down with my sticks and shot. Missed completely but the deer let me take another and that time I got him. Again no skill involved in that hunt, plus some terrible shooting on my part.

All in all is hunting bear over bait the style of hunting I like to do? No, but I’m not going to say it isn’t hunting as long as the practice is legal. Different regions have different hunting practices, just because it isn’t common practice where I live doesn’t make it unethical. Remember there are enough people who hate that any hunting happens, why add fuel to the cause to ban hunting all together. Just like we try and fight any weapons ban that comes down the pipe so should do the same to anything that takes away our hunting privileges. Hunting really is all about the experience, and hopefully some of those kids learned some sort of lesson and will advocate our cause in the future.

FLAME ON!

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 11:36 AM
............

hogdogs
March 31, 2009, 12:00 PM
I am with Art on this... I personally don't care for hunting over bait and this includes bottled scents. But if someone else chooses to I don't care. If they go peein' down my leg tellin' me it is rain about a hunt and it is akin to waiting for a bear to stick his head in a barrel of fish guts and baby diapers, I hope they don't take offense when I go laughin' my butt off about the hunt...
Brent

taylorce1
March 31, 2009, 12:03 PM
OLNfan, you really missed the point I was trying to make. The hunting while you might find it distasteful was perfectly legal where those kids were hunting. Hunting bear with bait or running them with dogs isn't legal where I live either doesn't mean I'm going to condemn the people who hunt in Regions where it is.

You are basicly pulling the classic "Jim Zumbo" move by your blanket statements.

Scorch
March 31, 2009, 12:12 PM
At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, Benjamin Franklin supposedly said "If we don't hang together, we shall surely all hang separately", meaning that if the enemies of the cause could get them fighting amongst themselves, they could easily defeat them all.

We saw this out west here, where the antis got a ban on leg-hold traps passed, a ban on hunting mountain lions with dogs passed, a ban on hunting bear with dogs passed, and damn near got a ban on 50-caliber rifles for hunting (until the black powder guys figured out that included them). So, like Art said, if you don't like it, don't do it. But it's legal, so don't go getting too self-righteous and get folks all worked up over nothing, or the antis are going to try to ban it, and eventually they will try to ban your favorite hunting, too! Remember, what we like to call hunting varies from one area to the next, and if the antis had their way you would only get to see meat in a museum.

OLNfan
March 31, 2009, 12:37 PM
Im done rambling, I could continue and sure would love to but Ill hold back.

L_Killkenny
March 31, 2009, 03:33 PM
I didn't see the vid in question and I swore I'd never get in on another discussion about ethics........oh damn!

What a bunch of high'n'mighty pansy's we have here. I could spend all day complaining about different hunting methods. Maybe your gun should be illegal? Maybe you shouldn't be able to use a compound bow? Maybe you bird hunters should get out and find your own damn birds, etc, etc. Who makes some of you the lord high authority on hunting ethics? If it's legal go for it. If you don't like it it, too bad.

It also appears that the shooting wasn't up to snuff on the vid. Gee, I wish I could say I've never made a bad shot. Wish I could be like some of you others:barf: and never make bad shots...

Get over yourselves...

hogdogs
March 31, 2009, 03:40 PM
LKK, I have to agree to the high and mighty approach. I just don't do what I don't agree with and mind my own bidness in life... The Lord and I are the only ones who know what length I would go to if I was hungry enuff:eek:
Brent

Daryl
March 31, 2009, 05:25 PM
Ethics in hunting is always a touchy subject.

Like LKK said, if we start trying to dictate these things, soon more laws will be passed, and then where does it end?

With bear baiting, or should baiting any and all animals be prohibited. What constitutes a bait? A placed bait, field of grain, a salt lick, or a water hole? These things are already being banned in some places, and we need the support of those hunters

Then what about those who disagree with using dogs? The anti's already want to ban it, and have in some states. Where does it stop?

What about how far we shoot? Some folks believe that long shots are unethical; should we ban shots over 200 yards? How? By limiting flat shooting cartridges?

Ethics are a good thing. Self imposed limitations that go above and beyond the law, but we can't start trying to dictate our own self interests and beliefs onto others.

Why? Because that will only end when all hunting is banned. That's what the anti's want, and they'll divide us up and defeat us any way they can.

Ethics are good; impose them on yourself as you feel appropriate, but leave others alone on the subject.

Daryl

cracker31
March 31, 2009, 05:54 PM
I just went to the store and bought a case of granola bars for all of you guys who think this is just plain wrong. I don't hunt bears (don't see the need here in FL) and don't see why anyone would, but doing it however you want to as long as it is legal doesn't bother me. I didn't see the video but it is probably about like watching them shoot elephants on Versus, it just doesn't feel right.

I used to know an old man who went into the Canadian bush every year for two weeks to hunt bears. He did it off of the ground with a long bow but he did it over bait that he put out. He was a hunter, of this there is no doubt in my mind, but was he more of a hunter because he did it where the bear could eat him? No, it is because he cared about what he was doing and the animal he was going to harvest.

I don't like the little rich boys who think hunting like this is real hunting any more than the rest of you do, but it is their right and if they can afford it leave them alone. They will never enjoy hunting the way that we do but that is there loss. They will also never put in the work to get the trophies (experiences and memories) that we do. Let them kill but know that we are the true hunters.

12GaugeShuggoth
March 31, 2009, 06:52 PM
Elkman, glad to see (at least from the looks of it) you saw I wasn't actually trying to be confrontational, but was actually supplementing your own post. Interesting to see how much attention this thread has gained, morals and ethics will probably always be a hot topic among hunters.

Daryl's last post pretty much sums it up IMO. I've learned that for the most part, I'm best suited to just keep my personal opinions about ethics to myself and some close friends. Hunting, in the broad sense, is one of those things that I couldn't live without; fighting amongst ourselves can only bring problems.

flippycat
March 31, 2009, 09:34 PM
You know what is funny about this thread...the insults and innuendos thrown to the people who disagree with the tactics used. Just as it is the peoples right to disagree with the tactics, you have all stood the ground we are wrong in voicing opinions about it and we should "mind our own opinions". What gives the defenders the voice that is right on the subject and the only one allowed? Why do those who disagree with it need to eat granola and lower our heads to shuffle past the great white "hunters".

like I said before in my posts,I do not agree with it, and even admitted to doing it on occasion via a rattle, scent. Even trapped, which is almost all about baiting.

I found what was in that vid to be low skill set, period.

And to address the shooting issue, sorry guys, have not botched a shot before on the hunt with a firearm! Yep how craptaculure of me to be a good shot and know when I can take it ~insert come roll eyes here~

Now, a bow ..yup I have botched a shot or two, some branch I did not see and a grazing a sapling which resulted in an a$$ shot.

Art Eatman
March 31, 2009, 10:58 PM
I've always been a walking hunter. I just don't like sitting in a blind. That's why I don't hunt the thick brush country of south Texas. Since you can't really walk it or sneaky-snake through all that cactus and mesquite, either sitting in a blind or riding in a high seat in the back of a pickup is darned near all there is.

Walking? Go to where Bambi is likely to be laid up, snoozing. Kick him out of bed, look him over, and shoot him. That's if you're any good on a running buck.

Sneaky-snaking is fun. Try to find Bambi before he finds you. Not easy, but soul-satisfying.

But some of it is a know-how thing. I grew up hunting. I learned how to walk very quietly darned near seventy years ago. Some guy who spends his life at a desk? Lives in town? Or, his kids? They gotta start somewhere, and I guess a blind is about as good a start as any. Let them get used to seeing critters. Learn how to sit still and not fidget. Some folks are good at that.

So all of that is why I don't get all exercised and harumphy when it's different strokes for different folks. I just might not know as much about the situation as I ought to, maybe.

As far as the number of shots, I know adrenalin makes folks do weird. I watched an experienced hunter crank through a mag's worth of cartridges in his bolt action, one time. Just one problem: He never pulled trigger. Sure worked that bolt quick, though.

Kids? Hey, life is a learning curve, and I haven't quit, yet. :D

roy reali
March 31, 2009, 11:11 PM
You set up at the edge of an alfalfa field. There are dozens of deer everyday grazing on that succulent plant. It is opening morning and a deer is coming into range. He nibbles as he approaches. A few seconds later, bang, you got your animal.

Were you hunting over bait?

Shorthair
March 31, 2009, 11:47 PM
Ok, this is how we do things where I hunt. I own 135 acres in northern Michigan. 95% of the county is private land, in holdings from 5 to a few hundred acres. We respect property rights, most of us do anyway, rather then be called trespassers.
So I rely on the habitat to draw deer, there are places on the land that I do not go and forbid others from doing so. 135 acres isn't a lot of land, I can cover it several times in one day if I wanted to, but all that trampling around is gonna spook the deer off the property, on to the neighbor's land. Since we are all boxed in pretty much, during rifle season we all sit in our blinds on opening morning and hope that a nice buck presents himself. We call it "hunting", but in reality its an uncontrolled harvest. I don't want that buck spooked by chasing him through my cedar swamp, I want his head down on breakfast or concentrating on a hot doe. This make my shot more sure, and that makes for a cleaner kill.
I manage the entire piece of land for whitetail, that includes cover, water and food. I manage the land to attract does. Bucks take up residence as well but the does maintain a predictable range from year to year, and opening day is during the rut. There is a lot of natural browse and I also plant food plots, clover, alfalfa, rye, wheat, trefoil, buckwheat, etc, in 1/2 - 3 acre plots. The season runs from Oct 1 (start of bow) through Jan 1. Since opening day in Michigan is always on November 15, the weather can be from single digits to well above freezing, often moving that much between 6 am and noon. Our blinds are typically nothing more fancy than four walls and a roof, with windows for shooting out of. This make spending the day out in sub-freezing temps more tolerable. It also allows the deer a chance to move naturally through the habitat, they come to us. This is how we do it here, its the best option available given the habitat and population.
I work hard on the land, and I cherish the time I can spend out on it not working it. I have bird dogs and I put a ton of time navigating my way around the wildest public lands Michigan has to offer when I bird hunt, but I'm not gonna fight the crowds and hunt public land in Michigan during rifle season, not when I can fill my freezer every opening day from my own land.
I'm healthy enough to spot and stalk but with the limited range there's just no point in it. And don't tell me that I have to spend my bow season crawling around like Sitting Bull instead of perched in a tree in my Beechwoods or in a pine overlooking one of my apple trees. None of the great white hunters out there know best what I should do with my land, my time and my money. As Art said, sometime we just don't know enough about the situation to make moral condemnations of perfectly legal activities. We hunt, we should all support hunting as long as the methods are legal and appropriate. Some of us just do it differently.