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View Full Version : Turn pistol into an SBR; add vertical foregrip?


UncleJed
March 25, 2009, 12:34 PM
Was considering SBRing my GSG-5P, turning a "pistol" into an SBR for $200 tax stamp. Afterwards, can I add a vertical foregrip without turning it into an AOW and having to pay another $200 tax stamp? Really only wanted the grip but since I was thinking about SBR anyway makes no sense to do it in the "wrong order" if it is going to cost twice as much. Who wrote these laws anyway?

Joat
March 25, 2009, 01:27 PM
Once it has been registered as a SBR, a vertical fore grip is kosher. By paying the tax you have made a short barreled RIFLE and the no vfg restriction no longer applies.

And a reminder: DO NOT put a shoulder stock on an AOW.

Joat

UncleJed
March 25, 2009, 06:55 PM
So you couldn't do the shoulder stock at a later date?

Helion
March 25, 2009, 06:56 PM
I think that the AOW stamp is only $5, if you want to SBR the gun then it is $200.

Regards,
Helion

PTK
March 25, 2009, 07:05 PM
I think that the AOW stamp is only $5, if you want to SBR the gun then it is $200.

Those are transfer prices. To MAKE an AOW is $200, same as a SBR. Most folks go with SBR.

TheManHimself
March 25, 2009, 09:15 PM
AOW is basically a "catch-all" designation for firearms that don't fit any other category of weapon (Hence the name). Since a pistol AR has to have the buffer tube anyway for the action to cycle, if you want a VFG on it you might as well go SBR and hang a stock off that buffer tube for better shootability.

David Hineline
March 25, 2009, 09:25 PM
The SBR configuration would be more usefull. The only AOW benifit is it can transport across state lines without ATF permission.

Yellowfin
March 26, 2009, 01:11 AM
The other reason to go AOW is that some states allow AOW's but not SBR's.

Joat
March 26, 2009, 08:23 AM
So you couldn't do the shoulder stock at a later date?
You could, but that would necessitate another $200.00 tax to make the AOW into a SBR.

To make either a SBR or an AOW it will cost you $200.00. If you transfer (buy/sell/give away) a SBR it is $200.00. To transfer an AOW the tax is $5.00.

GSG-5P made into an AOW = $200.00
GSG-5P made into a SBR = $200.00

GSG-5P AOW made into a SBR = another $200.00

If your state laws allow it, just make it into a SBR to start with and save the additional $200.

Joat

eddyb74
March 26, 2009, 11:23 AM
Excuse the thread jack, but what is a AOW?

curt.45
March 26, 2009, 01:31 PM
Excuse the thread jack, but what is a SBR?

PTK
March 26, 2009, 03:10 PM
Any Other Weapon and Short Barreled Rifle. :)

freakintoguns
March 26, 2009, 03:12 PM
AOW = Any other Weapon
SBR = Short barrel rifle, which means a rifle witha barrel length less then 16"
SBS = short Barrel Shotgun, shotgun witha barrel length less then 18"

UncleJed
March 28, 2009, 11:53 AM
So. I can put a collapsible stock on my gsg-5p for $200 and make it an SBR, then put a vertical fore grip on for no charge. But

if i put a vertical foregrip on first, it costs $200 for the fore grip, and another $200 to add the collapsible stock.

You have the same gun at the end of the day.

Is an SBR with a vertical fore grip considered less threatening than a pistol with vertical fore grip alone?

I can also pay a guy with a manufacturing license to put the grip on for me, but he says he'll have to keep my gun for the three months he estimates the paperwork to go through.

40s-and-wfan
April 2, 2009, 01:32 AM
Okay, I hope I'm not displaying my ignorance by asking this question but here goes: I'm considering purchasing a TP-9 (http://www.dsarms.com/BT-TP9-Semi-Auto-Tactical-Pistol-9mm-CIVILIAN-LEGAL/productinfo/BTTP9/) or a PLR-16 (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.htm). I realize they're two totally different calibers but oh well. My question is this, would I be violating any Federal Laws or Rulings by attaching a Vertical ForeGrip on this? I'm sure I would if I put a folding/collapsible stock to it but if someone could truthfully answer this I would greatly appreciate it!!

Thank you!!

PTK
April 2, 2009, 03:08 AM
would I be violating any Federal Laws or Rulings by attaching a Vertical ForeGrip on this?

If you don't get a AOW tax stamp, yes.

Old Wanderer
April 27, 2009, 11:43 PM
I have a forward magazine carrier for my PLR-16. Guess I will have to photograph it setting next to the gun and send a picture to BATF to see what paperwork if any I will need to attach it to the gun...(Must take about 30 seconds to install). So far it is not installed. :rolleyes:

http://www.zahal.org/FAB/MG20.htm

This would be a major improvement in the handling of this gun, plus a great place to carry an extra 30 round magazine.

I have set this gun up with a 30mw green laser and a 260 lumen light.

I am aware there were several cautions about "Do not put a forward grip on the PLR-16". If the primary function is to carry a magazine, would it still be considered a forward grip...only my friendly BATF can give me a written opinion.

The other option is to add a TAC-16 suppressor, and permanently attach it so it becomes a rifle.

Joat
April 28, 2009, 08:29 AM
OW, I don't think you need BATFE's opinion on this. According to the company's own claim this item is a:
"Forward grip with magazine holder" (emphasis added)

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch.

Joat

aroundlsu
April 28, 2009, 10:35 AM
Keep in mind, attaching a vertical grip to a pistol is not a minor violation. It is the same as being in possession of an unregistered machine gun. 10 years federal prison and $250k fine.

Willie Lowman
April 28, 2009, 10:45 AM
UncleJed:
I can also pay a guy with a manufacturing license to put the grip on for me, but he says he'll have to keep my gun for the three months he estimates the paperwork to go through.

Not necessarily. You submit Form 1 to SBR the gun. WAIT for your approved paper and tax stamp. With that in hand go and have work done on your gun.

Bear in mind, you will have to stay with your gun while the work is done or form 5 the gun to him to do the work (if you do it the way I just described).

aroundlsu
April 28, 2009, 11:01 AM
What Uncle Jed is saying is he knows a guy with a Class 3 manufacturers license. His guy could indeed build the AOW tax free then transfer for it to him for $5. Someone on silencertalk did that recently to a Glock pistol and it worked out fine.

Yellowfin
May 14, 2009, 01:04 AM
The absurdity of this stuff is why we need a lot of the NFA repealed.

Willie Lowman
May 14, 2009, 07:56 PM
Yes, but as long as 90% of the pro-gun people in America jump up and down and demand to know "Why do you want one of those?" NFA is here to stay.

newkahr
May 14, 2009, 08:01 PM
Gun haters, communists, and tax collectors. Most likely tax collectors and legislators. I think most "gun control" laws were rooted in the Prohibition era. The whole thing was an exercise in oppressive tax collecting and live testing of police state measures.

newkahr
May 14, 2009, 08:11 PM
http://www.olyarms.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/ar15-pistols/full-oa-93.jpg

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=37&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

quote: AOW is basically a "catch-all" designation for firearms that don't fit any other category of weapon (Hence the name). Since a pistol AR has to have the buffer tube anyway for the action to cycle, if you want a VFG on it you might as well go SBR and hang a stock off that buffer tube for better shootability.