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View Full Version : Hey, owner/moderator just a thought


Waterengineer
March 25, 2009, 12:12 PM
There seems to be two widely divergent schools of interest on the shotgun forum: a) target/hunters types and b) SD/PD/HD types. The types of guns are different, the ammo is different and the needs of each group is different.

I think each of the two groups has gotten frustrated with parties interested in the one concept and not the other.

How about two shotgun forums to serve the needs of your users? Seems reasonable. Is having two shotgun forums really different than the three handgun forums?

What do others think?

As the youngsters would say........"I'm just sayin'."

Or, in my vernacular, "it's just a thought."

Vergeltung
March 25, 2009, 12:12 PM
+1 :)

wyobohunter
March 25, 2009, 12:14 PM
Sounds like a winner.

hoytinak
March 25, 2009, 12:14 PM
As us rednecks would say...."that ther is a purdy good idear." ;)

Dustin0
March 25, 2009, 12:56 PM
+4

zippy13
March 25, 2009, 02:00 PM
+5

oneounceload
March 25, 2009, 02:06 PM
works for us old fuds!.... :D

Of course, the other option is to go to Shotgunworld.com or uplandjournal.com

mwar410
March 25, 2009, 02:46 PM
what no more 870 vs. 500 debates?:):):)

Waterengineer
March 25, 2009, 03:07 PM
Oneounce:

Yep, I'm over there at those too, but the same handle. I have seen your posts at SW but don't recall at ULJ.

Tonight, I will write you an email. I see you are in FL too.

buzz_knox
March 25, 2009, 03:14 PM
With one forum and members who act like adults, both "sides" will see the value of the other and work together to preserve ownership.

If we begin dividing ourselves because of foolish attitudes between the "sides", separate forums will become irrelevant as neither side will own much of anything.

wyobohunter
March 25, 2009, 05:49 PM
I really don't think it is... Shotguns are just so versatile that it would be mighty convenient to have two forums. One for SD and one for hunting. My .02

Katrina Guy
March 25, 2009, 06:00 PM
(LOL).

Couzin
March 25, 2009, 06:41 PM
As long as the "a) target/hunters types" forum does not allow the use of the term "shottie" - it could work.

inSight-NEO
March 25, 2009, 06:49 PM
As long as the "a) target/hunters types" forum does not allow the use of the term "shottie" - it could work.

Man, you guys and your hang-ups. :rolleyes: You need to let the "slang" thing rest, my friend.

Dont get me wrong here; I can see how various "slang" terms can become tiresome. But, I can also recognize when that proverbial "dead horse" has been thoroughly beaten. :D

In terms of the whole "tactical" vs "game/sport" division- While it could work, it might also foster a division akin to the vast Republican/Democratic divide we have all experienced (and still are experiencing) within our own country. This may not be a good thing, unless handled correctly.

While I am certainly of the "tactical" (simply a word I use to describe the area in which my interest currenly resides) persuasion, I have gleaned useful information from the "hunting/sporting" types.

My only real gripe is the incessant, needless insinuation that all things "tactical" (accessories mainly) are simply unnecessary and are then usually summed up by the grossly overused term "mall ninja." This is needless stereotyping..... Keep in mind, many individuals consider hunters, for instance, to fall within the kill-crazy, six-pack a day, backwoods redneck stereotype. I do not personally adhere to this belief, but its something to bear in mind if/when one feels inclined to insult the "tactical" crowd.

Couzin
March 25, 2009, 07:07 PM
I once said to an Army Major General that 'the issue was a a dead horse' - to which he promply informed me that "no horse was ever too dead to beat!" ;)

PSI357
March 25, 2009, 07:11 PM
If the horse was named "shottie", I'd kick it again. LOL

inSight-NEO
March 25, 2009, 07:34 PM
I once said to an Army Major General that 'the issue was a a dead horse' - to which he promply informed me that "no horse was ever too dead to beat!"

Albert Einstein also said that, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ;)

oneounceload
March 26, 2009, 08:01 AM
I don't think it's about "sides"......I get tired scrolling through all the "mossy v. remmie" threads to find ones on targets shooting and hunting.

There are multiple handgun forums.....why? Because a semi guy doesn't want to scroll through the revolver threads..........

JMO, YMMV

I would also ask that IF this was to happen, we should be able to post shotshell reloading discussion in here - the current forum seems to be 99.999% metallic.

Thanks

hogdogs
March 26, 2009, 08:30 AM
I am fine the way it is... But a separation clays and target sports would need to be located in the same forum category as the competition pistol and rifle sports...;) I don't mind reading all shotgun related stuff in one place. For the most part posts stay on first page for at least 2 days with our current post activity. I will say that what ammo or Mossy versus Remmy stuff does begin to be they oyster shells and mullet guts in the trash a few days after feast but I can skip them when I wish...
Brent
P.S.the reason for the handgun separations likely is directly related to the post traffic running all of their posts to page 2 in a hurry... Check out the traffic there one day...

.45 COLT
March 26, 2009, 09:22 AM
Seems to me that somebody could tell from the title of the post whether or not it is of interest. If you still can't decide, putting the cursor over the title reveals the first few lines. If you still can't tell, well........

Nothing wrong with the way it's set up now.

DC

Super-Dave
March 26, 2009, 10:51 AM
I say forget you guys and your divisive language.

Take the Fudds and take the Mall Ninjas and for now on everyon is just called a Fudd Ninja

Instead of "Shottie"

The only approved reference to a shotgun is a "boomstick"

So for now on it is Boomstick only.

The only approved outfit for a fuddninja is a tan hunting outfit with orange vest, a ski mask, and 2 50 round shotgun bandoliers around your neck.

This way we can easily identifiy each other at the trap and skeet club.

zippy13
March 26, 2009, 11:11 AM
Humm.... instead of separating the shotgun forum into pump and un-pump shotguns, perhaps it should be slang and no slang. :D

BigJimP
March 26, 2009, 11:31 AM
My vote is to just leave it as is.

I ignore most of the stuff on tactical - because I have no interest in it. I'm confident a 1911, is all the "tactical" power I'll need...until the cavalry arrives.

ScattergunBob and I are at different extremes on our shotgun experience / and training - but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy his counsel on some of the tactical issues - and his approach to things. It would be harder for me to see what he's been talking about, if you split it up.

Shotgun World and other sites have a number of other issues going on - and specifically for Skeet, Sporting Clays, etc.

We can all ignore questions or rhetoric that we find boring.

Super-Dave
March 26, 2009, 11:32 AM
or when you guys make fun of the zombie apocalypse.



Its coming just give it some more time.

45_Shooter
March 26, 2009, 11:43 AM
Instead of "Shottie"

The only approved reference to a shotgun is a "boomstick"

So for now on it is Boomstick only.

This terminology worked good for Bruce Campbell in the Army of Darkness, so I would think it would work here. Although I do believe in Bruce's case it was an attachment to his severed arm and not a stand alone shotgun, so we would have to bend the rules a bit.

We could also refer to the owners manual as the "Necronomechan":D

colostomyclown
March 26, 2009, 02:17 PM
Brcue Campbell Ftmfw

rem870hunter
March 26, 2009, 03:04 PM
Take the Fudds and take the Mall Ninjas and for now on everyon is just called a Fudd Ninja

Instead of "Shottie"

The only approved reference to a shotgun is a "boomstick"

So for now on it is Boomstick only.

The only approved outfit for a fuddninja is a tan hunting outfit with orange vest, a ski mask, and 2 50 round shotgun bandoliers around your neck.

This way we can easily identifiy each other at the trap and skeet club.
LOL nice one. i'll see you there Dave :)

grymster2007
March 26, 2009, 03:08 PM
The silence is deafening.... and therin lies your answer. I think the staff has just plenty to do without adding a forum. Not that I know anything you don't; just a guess.

Dave McC
March 26, 2009, 08:48 PM
Vetoed, and here's why.....

Shotguns are versatile, we all know that.

The clays fans may need to protect their families sometimes.

The practical guys may find that quail hunting or a dove shoot is as much fun as they can have fully dressed.

When folks from either camp try new things, we all benefit.

Recently, I showed the Geezer Squad a Saiga that I had been loaned for a T&E.

These guys are into Parker doubles and Winchester 21s and SX1 trap models.

They liked the Saiga, some shot it and one plans on getting his own when the hysteria diminishes.

There's 3 shotguns here that qualify as Tactical counting that Russian loaner.

There a mess more that have "Legitimate Sporting Use" though I loathe the term.

I like them all, most get shot often and do not ask me to pick a favorite.

Finally, for the guys reading this while wearing a Highntight and black BDUs.....

Proficiency comes with a high round count here.

Clays shooters shoot a LOT.

Anyone who can hit a 4" disc moving at up to 65 MPH at severe angles will have little trouble targeting the CNS of a threat moving much more slowly.

Think about it.

And I promise not to yell at anyone calling these "Shotties" though you may hear my teeth grinding....

oneounceload
March 26, 2009, 09:09 PM
But you split handguns into three sections.......using your logic, it should be one, also combined with the competition section

Personally, as much as I would like to see TFL and THR have them separate, I don't think there is enough sporting traffic - these sites are more for the tactical group - that's fine

hogdogs
March 26, 2009, 09:34 PM
With that mindset we need...
1)singles, doubles and OU's section
2)pump action section
3)semi auto (standard) section
4)EBS's (enhanced battle shotguns)
5)elmer fudd section (proper lingo)
6)tacticool section (any lingo/slang allowed)
Then we need to drop down to the gun sports category to view the trap and skeet techniques and talk...
No discussion of hunting with shot guns unless it is in the hunting section...
I am for leaving it ride as Dave McC said...
Brent

supergas452M
March 26, 2009, 09:59 PM
Its fine as is.

wyobohunter
March 27, 2009, 12:08 AM
Bruce Campbell had a chainsaw attached to a severed limb. Sheesh:cool:

OK, the leave it alone logic convinced me... My 22" bbl interchangeable (sp?) choke, pump action shotgun does do double duty for HD/SD... So I guess it's kind of tacticool:D

Waterengineer
March 27, 2009, 05:10 AM
OK, fine, like I said in the OP, it was "just a thought."

With that said, the logic for not splitting the topics is counter-intuitive as Oneounceload states about four posts above when compared to the number of handgun forums.

Further, it seems fairly close-minded, not very service oriented and certainly not thoughtful to the user/members who frequent the site.

IMHO, the site and its forums should grow organically, as time marched forward, to meet the needs and desires of the constituency.

If the decision is made then just go ahead and close this thread - there is no further need for it.

Lee Lapin
March 27, 2009, 03:02 PM
ooo,

Dave didn't decide on separate handgun fora- that was hardly an individual or unilateral decision, if things here at TFL happen the way I'd expect them to. Forum management stuff usually gets talked over by the whole staff before decisions get made.


Waterengineer,

I feel pretty sure splitting the forum been talked about, and wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been suggested before as well - that's what often gets staff discussions started at places like this. It's not something i would want to argue about either way, but the thing is, there are not a lot of members here at any given time. Right now, for example, the list is: Currently Active Users - 75 (6 members & 69 guests). The user numbers are at the bottom of the index page, BTW. With no more member traffic than that, it ought to be manageable to keep everything shotgun in one forum, I think.

Right now at Revolvers it's 136 (20 members & 116 guests), at Semiautos it's 248 (21 members & 227 guests) while at plain old Handguns it's 109 (13 members & 96 guests)...

hth,

lpl

SPUSCG
March 27, 2009, 03:16 PM
Under the split logic we'd need two rifle forums, one for people's tacticool ARs and one for regular rifles.

Waterengineer
March 27, 2009, 03:22 PM
Yep, that's fine I support that too.

rem870hunter
March 27, 2009, 03:23 PM
i'll agree to leave it be. i don't mind sifting through threads to get to what titles interest me. i almost always click on them regardless of title or writer. i like hearing from both sides of the receiver.

Katrina Guy
March 27, 2009, 05:36 PM
one for synthetic stocks, one for wood, another forum for blue steel, one for shiney, oh ugh, "marine" finish.

Mike Irwin
March 27, 2009, 06:24 PM
There's a VERY good reason why we have three separate handgun forums and only one rifle forum and one shotgun forum.

Numbers.

Pure and simple.

Take a look at the threads and posts figures for the three handgun forums, the rifle forum, and the shotgun forum.

Of the five, the shotgun forum has, by far, the fewest threads/posts.

The three handgun pages if they are combined into one general handguns forum? Over 1.1 MILLION posts.

Handguns was split into three separate forums because as one forum it was simply enormous, far too big and too active to manage effectively.

If I remember correctly, the three-way split was made in late 2000, about 2 years after TFL kicked off, and when it really started taking off as a premier site on the internet.

There was a lot of discussion about it amongst the membership, and I suspect there was even more discussion about it amongst staff. It was not something that was done on the spur of the moment, or lightly.

A driving premise of TFL has always been (at least in my decade here) "Don't dilute your discussion." That's why duplicate threads on the same subject are closed even when they're on topic. Splitting the conversation, as Dave alludes, dilutes the discussion.

So there's no "Your logic is flawed" or "You're playing special favorites with handguns" or "You just hate shotguns."

It was a TFL management decision based on practical considerations for the best and most efficient operation of the entire board.

So, unless the schutzenboomerloudenkraker forum picks up oh, say, another 100,000 threads and 750,000 posts in the next week, Dave is right, no split is in the offing. Same with rifles.

45_Shooter
March 27, 2009, 06:49 PM
Bruce Campbell had a chainsaw attached to a severed limb. Sheesh

I stand corrected

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n9/erincampbell1/boomstick-smartjpg_595.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mDP93UKS5es/SCvMmYxLpQI/AAAAAAAAA3g/a7QyVJTeIUY/s320/bruce%2Bcampbell%2Bboom%2Bstick%2Barmy%2Bof%2Bdarkness.jpg

If a "Tactical Shotgun" forum does manifest itself, I vote for one of these two pictures to be the icon.

oneounceload
March 27, 2009, 07:17 PM
Mike - Is there a substantial cost difference to having another subforum? I have no knowledge how the "back room" side of these places work

Thanks for any insight

hogdogs
March 27, 2009, 07:31 PM
So do I win a prize? i gurdded it was due to traffic...:D Send awards my please!
Brent

Mike Irwin
March 28, 2009, 12:20 AM
In terms of dollars?

No. No cost.

But it never was, never has been, and never will be a consideration of dollars and cents.

jlayman920
March 28, 2009, 01:16 AM
I think we should go the opposite direction and change the name of the forum itself from "shotguns" to "shotties". At the same time, change the name of forums related to pistols, which will now be titled "pisties" and also rifles or "riffies". Whadda ya think?

If a "Tactical Shotgun" forum does manifest itself, I vote for one of these two pictures to be the icon.

Those pictures would be horrible icons. The sawed off, double barrel that Mr. Campbell is holding is about as far away from tactical as is possible. :)

Mike Irwin
March 28, 2009, 08:48 AM
"The sawed off, double barrel that Mr. Campbell is holding is about as far away from tactical as is possible."

Yep. His chainsaw is more tactical.

hogdogs
March 28, 2009, 11:29 AM
One more thought on this...
Anyone else notice there is only one "rifle" section and it covers all calibers from .17 on up and all forms and fashions of rifle platforms to include the air rifles?
As well as shooting disciplines and styles and optic options...
Brent

Microgunner
March 28, 2009, 01:02 PM
Take the Fudds and take the Mall Ninjas and for now on everyon is just called a Fudd Ninja
Instead of "Shottie"
The only approved reference to a shotgun is a "boomstick"


I own a Fudd and friends don't let friends shoot shotties!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/Microgunner/cm-2019.jpg

Mike Irwin
March 28, 2009, 01:14 PM
What the hell is that thing? It looks like the nozzle on my sausage stuffer...

Microgunner
March 28, 2009, 01:26 PM
It's a Fudd tuner w/ bloop tube mounted on one of my Volquartsen Customs.


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/Microgunner/cm-2014.jpg

oneounceload
March 28, 2009, 08:33 PM
In terms of dollars?

No. No cost.

But it never was, never has been, and never will be a consideration of dollars and cents.

OK, some edjumacation for me if you please:

IF it doesn't cost more to run another subforum, then the reason is????

My point is this - while I try to follow the forum every day, it doesn't always work out. Since my main focus is sporting, not tactical, unless I have an email sent to me when there is a reply, I will probably miss a thread on something because there have been 30-40 tactical posts in the meantime...

Hope I am making sense to you with what I am saying and to why I am saying it......but hopefully, you can understand why I am asking, as I believe, Waterengineer is also....

Thanks again for your time

Mike Irwin
March 29, 2009, 12:48 AM
"IF it doesn't cost more to run another subforum, then the reason is????"

I gave you the reason.

Read what I wrote in my first message.

"My point is this - while I try to follow the forum every day, it doesn't always work out. Since my main focus is sporting, not tactical, unless I have an email sent to me when there is a reply, I will probably miss a thread on something because there have been 30-40 tactical posts in the meantime..."

From what I've seen of the Shotgun Forum, an single message/thread stands a pretty good chance at staying on the front page for up to three days. Right now there are threads at the bottom of the page that had the last message traffic 3 days ago. That seems to be fairly consistent, so I don't think parsing through two, or perhaps three pages at the most, should be that much of a hardship.

Before handguns was split into three separate forums, it wasn't uncommon for a new thread with no other posts in it to drop off the front page in a matter of MINUTES and go to the third or even fourth page in a matter of hours. Even then there was still some grumbling from some members who were not happy that the forum had been split three ways.

With all due respect, the point of The Firing Line is not to be as convenient as possible for you and you alone, or for anyone else, for that matter.

Simply put, staff is going to do what is best to promote the stated goals of TFL's founder, and keeping a small number of type forums meets his stated goals. Subdividing into many different forums is not keeping with those stated goals.

oneounceload
March 29, 2009, 10:35 PM
With all due respect, the point of The Firing Line is not to be as convenient as possible for you and you alone, or for anyone else, for that matter


Sorry if you found my questions offensive - was just asking for clarification.....have a nice day

Mike Irwin
March 30, 2009, 10:37 AM
I didn't find your questions offensive, nor did I mean to express or imply any sense of anger or frustration with my reply.

I was simply answering your questions as you posed them. I went into a rather lengthy discussion of exactly why there are three handgun forums and only one shotgun forum and one rifle forum in a previous message. I saw no sense in saying the same thing again or doing a cut and paste. That's just wasteful of bandwidth.

I also tried to give you an honest and straightforward answer to the point you were making about what you would find to be most convenient. We simply can't attempt to please everyone by making TFL conform to something like 11,000 (rough number of active members, IIRC) different perspectives on what it should be -- that's impossible.

There have been many such requests for segmented forums over the years, ranging from a forum for each handgun/rifle/shotgun manufacturer (that would blow us up into the dozens of individual forums) to most recently a request for a rimfire forum. The answer has always been the same.

I know that this is not what you want to hear/want to see, and I'm truly sorry for that, but somewhere, somehow, there has to be a baseline for what TFL is, and someone has to control that baseline. That baseline, and the person controlling it, is Rich Lucibella, TFL founder and owner.