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SPUSCG
March 24, 2009, 11:01 AM
My friend has a double trigger stoeger and we were wondering about pulling both at once. With the recoil pad we slip on birdshot has very little kick and we know 2x force is not going to be bad. We have heard that firing both will make 4x the force though, something with physics. Is it really 4x? If so I'll avoid firing double

rantingredneck
March 24, 2009, 11:12 AM
I don't know about 4x, though I've heard that too. I do know that it has some oomph. I had a single trigger O/U double on me once (I'm assuming a failure of some sort, wasn't my gun). It kinda gave me a good whalloping. I was shooting 1oz. 7.5's at about 1200 FPS.

hogdogs
March 24, 2009, 11:15 AM
Try a pair of 3 inch nitro turkey heavy payload shells!
Lemme know how that works out for ya... No recoil pad allowed either!:D
Brent

Willie Lowman
March 24, 2009, 11:56 AM
I used to have a sxs Bakail 12 gauge. I started out pulling both triggers with 7 1/2 shot clay loads. I worked my way up to high brass game loads, did 00 buck once but it wasn't worth it.:o

After about a few months of that crap I cracked the stock.:D

I have no regrets. I bought that gun to break.

Scorch
March 24, 2009, 12:06 PM
We have heard that firing both will make 4x the force though, something with physics. Is it really 4x? No, it's just 2X the force. It would only be 4X the force if you doubled the velocity.

By the way, firing both triggers is an experience everyone should try at least once. It won't harm you, but it will get your attention. I did it once by accident, and 35 years later I still remember to keep only one finger on the trigger.

zippy13
March 24, 2009, 12:07 PM
REPOST
This topic was discussed, at length with lots of opinions and calculations. Check out the New Year's Day post doubling shotgun = 4x recoil energy? (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328860&highlight=recoil) Perhaps you'll have something new to add.

darkgael
March 24, 2009, 12:23 PM
I had a shotgun double on me once. At the time, I hardly noticed. I kicked up a turkey, literally from under my feet, threw the gun up and pulled. The bird was about as big as a B-52; I was dimly aware that the gun felt different upon firing.
I missed.
When I broke the gun open to reload, both hulls had fired.
As to doing it on purpose on a regular basis....it's a good way to break your gun.
About recoil. Assuming a 23 grain propellant charge, a one ounce load at 1200 fps from a 7.5lb gun produces just under 17ft.lbs of free recoil. If you double the weight of the shot charge and the powder charge, you get 67ft.lbs of free recoil.
Pete

rantingredneck
March 24, 2009, 12:23 PM
Try a pair of 3 inch nitro turkey heavy payload shells!


Umm, no thanks. One of those is quite enough.......:D

oneounceload
March 24, 2009, 12:39 PM
My very first time ever hunting was with a borrowed 12 with double triggers.....As a young kid, and being LH, the inevitable happened.....both at once.....The pheasant was no longer identifiable, and my shoulder hurt like hell for a week......

BTW, there's nothing macho about bragging how much recoil you can take.....it's a slow cumlative injury over time that gets worse as you get older.....

hogdogs
March 24, 2009, 12:40 PM
I would rather rapid fire 6 2 3/4 inch 00 buck than one of them nitro's my self!:D
Brent

rem870hunter
March 24, 2009, 12:45 PM
with low brass birdshot i might. heavier than that HELL NO. an uncle did it once with 2 3/4" buckshot, it put a hairline crack in the stock,on the left and right about 1 1/2" long right at the rear of the receiver.:mad:


Try a pair of 3 inch nitro turkey heavy payload shells! and shoot it one handed like arnold. <<<<<<<<<NEVERMIND DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!.

Kreyzhorse
March 24, 2009, 01:06 PM
My Dad has an O/U (I believe it was made by FN) that will occasionally light off both barrels at once. Not terrible, but loaded with 3" shells, it will get your attention.

SPUSCG
March 24, 2009, 02:12 PM
It's not a macho thing, we're curious as to how it would pattern.

BigJimP
March 24, 2009, 02:21 PM
So you want to experience 4 Times the recoil - to see how it'll pattern ??

If both barrels have the same Point of Impact - it'll pattern one on top of the other - but if some of the shot collides in the air - you will get a lot of "flyers" out of the pattern .....

but what is the point ....?? I guess at 6'5" and 290 lbs - I no longer feel the need to prove how high up the tree I can pee ... / or whether it hurts when I slam my hand in a car door / I can / and it hurts ....:rolleyes:

hogdogs
March 24, 2009, 02:23 PM
well the one or 2 times I tried the double double thang it was our 12 year old minds that figgered it would pattern better if we went for a real fast one, two punch so both shot loads were independent and not colliding... So we had 2 fingered the triggers knowing we couldn't time them both perfect... Granted we had much smaller fingers then... But goo gawd it was a hoot trying to "double up" the shots...

Brent

BigJimP
March 24, 2009, 02:26 PM
but you were 12 ......which is my point .

Jekyll
March 24, 2009, 10:21 PM
I did this with my dad's 12 side by side when I was 16. It took 3 tries before I got both barrels to go off at the same instance, using 2 3/4 high brass. I had 3 buddies with me and they all confirmed what I felt. That sucker took me off my feet and the first thing that hit the ground was my shoulders and neck. My feet were up in the air when I hit. Noone else wanted to try the stunt.

I told my dad about it and he chuckled. Seems he accidentlly touched off both barrels while sighting in slugs from a prone postion. He wore a sling for a week and thought he had broken something in his shoulder.

It didn't hurt the gun but it hurt us.

publius
March 25, 2009, 11:07 AM
I did it once, no fun, not b/c of the recoil, just plain anti-climactic. Oh, and if you don't hold it right, that middle finger on the rear trigger can take a hit w/the rear of the front trigger.

ZeroJunk
March 25, 2009, 11:19 AM
LOL, I've had a couple of old shotguns that would do it on their own every now and then.


I find it hard to believe that the recoil actually quadruples. I would rather see it measured than figured.:)

darkgael
March 25, 2009, 12:09 PM
I would rather see it measured than figured.
Yeah, that would be interesting. Maybe a mount with some padding, a strain gauge (or an impact gauge, if there is such a thing.) For now though, the formula is all I have and that's basic physics. Bottom line is that even a gauged measuring system would have to have been designed with some variation of the basic formula.
And how it feels is another matter entirely.
Pete

impalacustom
March 26, 2009, 03:02 AM
I've seen my uncle do it with his 10ga and 3.5" with 2.5oz of shot. It was quite comical to say the least. He is 6'6" and weighs 330lbs too.

B.L.E.
March 26, 2009, 06:11 AM
It's not a macho thing, we're curious as to how it would pattern.
__________________


It's almost impossible to shoot both barrels exactly at the same time. One shot charge will always come out of the barrel before the other one.
The shot that comes out last will hit higher than the one that comes out first. That's because the gun's barrels jump up while the shot is accelerating down the barrels.
What you will see on the patterning board, (you need a big one to see the second pattern) is one pattern above the other, the distance apart will depend on how many milliseconds of time the second barrel was delayed.

The momentum of the gun, not the energy will be doubled.
In order to double the momentum, the velocity of the gun will be 2X and doubling a masse's velocity quadruples its energy.

ZeSpectre
March 26, 2009, 08:09 AM
I have a nice old Spanish SxS gun that would double every once in a while. Eventually I figured out that if I triggered the right barrel first it would sometimes double.

After a couple of slug doubles I'd had enough and opened things up to find a blob of varnish right on the sear of the left barrel. Chipped that off and the gun was fine ever since.

Never really wanted to "double" a gun on purpose.

Joat
March 26, 2009, 08:13 AM
When I was shooting cowboy action, we often had stages that you had to shoot through a roll of newsprint to expose the pistol targets behind them. Under sass rules, you can not set down a loaded gun so if you loaded both barrels, they both had to be fired.
To shave partial seconds from the time, shooters would often load both barrels and pull them both off at the same time. I did it routinely, with no ill effects to my gun or self. Admittedly these were low brass, 7 1/2 shot "target" loads, but the object was to empty the shotgun and make a hole to see through.
Everyone should try it at least once.:D

Joat

freakintoguns
March 26, 2009, 03:08 PM
imma glutton for pain (just ask the ex-girlfriend) so im so down to try a sxs with some magnum turkey loads :D

troy_mclure
March 26, 2009, 07:02 PM
i too double fired 2 2 3/4" 1 oz slugs from my springfield/j stevens sxs that is sawed down to 18.5" it also had a hard plastic but pad as well.
2 days later my shoulder and part of my chest were good and bruised.

Hawg
March 26, 2009, 07:14 PM
My daughter who is 17 now has routinely fired both barrels of a 12 gauge SXS with no recoil pad shooting clays since she was 13. Now that's 2 3/4 target loads with 7 1/2 shot but she's no heavy weight.

Willie Lowman
April 17, 2009, 03:09 PM
My Dad has an O/U (I believe it was made by FN) that will occasionally light off both barrels at once. Not terrible, but loaded with 3" shells, it will get your attention.

LOL, I've had a couple of old shotguns that would do it on their own every now and then.

I had a shotgun double on me once. At the time, I hardly noticed. I kicked up a turkey, literally from under my feet, threw the gun up and pulled. The bird was about as big as a B-52; I was dimly aware that the gun felt different upon firing.
I missed.
When I broke the gun open to reload, both hulls had fired.

If the guns you guys are talking about are single trigger double barrels, you have met the ATF's criteria for an illegal machinegun. (fires more than one shot for one pull of the trigger)

I know it is stupid but they make the rules. I'd get those old guns fixed if I were you. Just advise, take it or leave it.