PDA

View Full Version : Silencer or Sound Supressor


jwalker497
March 18, 2009, 08:38 PM
I have a few questions

1. What is the difference between silencers and supperssors?
2. What is the process to own one in PA
3. I heard of a trust established to own one, can someone explain this process?
4. Does anyone have any pics they could share, especially on a SIg?
5. How long is the process and what may be the expenses in PA?
6. Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation?

THANKS!!

ar15chase
March 18, 2009, 08:40 PM
Not to be intrusive or rude , but why would you want one?

freakshow10mm
March 18, 2009, 10:28 PM
The legal term in the NFA 1934 is silencer or muffler. Hiram Maxim used this term as marketing.

The silencer or suppressor or muffler or moderator, whatever you want to call it, reduces or suppresses the muzzle blast and report. The term suppressor, which is a more correct illustration of what a silencer does, has been in use since the 1970's.

Some use silencer, some use suppressor, some use both at any given moment. Slang for a suppressor/silencer is can.

I use the term suppressor, as I think it's more accurate and doesn't convey the Hollywood evilness the word silencer does. My website lists them as suppressors, but on the ATF forms I list according to the law term, which is silencer.

David Hineline
March 19, 2009, 12:56 AM
I have a few questions

1. What is the difference between silencers and supperssors? No difference

2. What is the process to own one in PA best way is to contact your local dealer

3. I heard of a trust established to own one, can someone explain this process? One of the requirements is that your local police approve your application for this items, in areas where the police do not approve then either by using a legal trust or a corporation this avoids the police approval requirement.

4. Does anyone have any pics they could share, especially on a SIg? google the Sig forum, plenty of pics on line.

5. How long is the process and what may be the expenses in PA? Around 3 months, cost of a threaded barrel, cost of the silencer, cost of your dealer's fees, and one time $200 tax to register it with the ATF since Sigs are kinda spendy expect a couple thousand for the entire process.

6. Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation? Not if you don't commit crimes with it. There are plenty of Ninnys who say using an NFA weapon in legal defense situation causes one problems with the courts, but they never site any actual instances where this has happend.

THANKS!! Here are some PA dealers for you to shop with.

Armament Services International Inc.

Attn: Vahan Kelerchian
Specialties: Class 2, Type 10 & 08 (Non- NFA Importer)
103 Camars Drive
Warminster, PA 18974
Phone: (215) 293-0200
FAX: (215) 942-4136
E-mail: infoREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@autoweapons.com
http://www.autoweapons.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Barnes
Specialties: Class 3
1317 Hamilton Street Suite B1
Allentown, PA 18102
Phone: (610) 261-5127
E-mail: mp5sdREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@enter.net
Homepage: N/A



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Carmichael - Firearm Supply
Specialties: Class 2
304 Murrysville Rd.
Trafford, PA 15085
Phone: (412) 372-2191 from 6-9 PM EST Evenings.
E-mail: rayc20mmREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@comcast.net
Homepage: N/A



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keystone Arms - Joe Manazza Jr.
Specialties: Class 3 - Specializing in military gun parts
PO Box 599
Millrift, PA 18340
Phone: (570) 491-4867
E-mail: keystonejoeREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@pikeonline.net
http://www.keystonearms.com/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F. Charles Logan - Arms and Ordnance
Specialties: Class 3
Box 441
Warrendale, PA 15086
Phone: (724) 776-9271
FAX: (724) 776-0355
E-mail: FCLoganREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@Arms-Ordnance.net
http://www.arms-ordnance.net/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS Arms - Paul Sadowski
Specialties: Class 3
PO Box 798
Easton, PA 18044-0798
FAX: (801) 881-5460
Homepage: N/A


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Dennis A. Todd
Specialties: Type 10
239 Baltimore Pike
Springfield, PA 19064
Phone: (610) 543-7300
FAX: (610) 543-7909
E-mail: DToddmgREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@AOL.com

RAnb
March 19, 2009, 07:50 AM
ar15chaser,

He probably wants a silencer for his gun for the same reason people use mufflers on cars. I think people appear rude anytime they ask why someone wants to own a firearm.

Ranb

Wiskey_33
March 19, 2009, 09:20 AM
Not to be intrusive or rude , but why would you want one?


Same reason I've got an SBR AR15. Because they're cool and he's allowed to. I'm trying to figure out which firearm I want to suppress right now....

Willie Lowman
March 19, 2009, 09:28 AM
ar15chase I want to be intrusive or rude , justify your desire to legally obtain gun mounted hearing protection!

There, I fixed it for ya!;)


jwalker497
Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation?

Yes. I have been legally advised to never use a suppressor (or any NFA item) in a self defense situation. It would be an argument of intent against you. If you put a suppressor on your SD gun you "clearly" intended to shoot the first person to come into your home. It gets into the American people's concept of silencers as assassins tools. The prosecuting attorney would paint you as an unstable sociopath who kept an assassin's weapon on hand just waiting for a chance to take someone's life.

Wiskey_33
March 19, 2009, 11:55 AM
I don't understand how one could be painted as a "sociopath" if they were to use an NFA item for SD.

Supposed I stopped an intruder with my SBR. How would it be any different if I used an AR15 with 4.5" more barrel to do the same thing? Same with an SBS, why would a little more barrel keep me in the clear?

Willie Lowman
March 19, 2009, 12:23 PM
Perhaps "sociopath" was not the best word to use.

As I said earlier, I have been legally advised not to use NFA firearms for home defense. In court my SBS would become a "sawed off shotgun." A suppressor would be a great display of "intent" to do harm. Using such a weapon in your home would be providing a figurative weapon to the other side's lawyer. If you are in court for shooting someone that was in your home, attacked you in the street, kicking your dog, drinking your koolaid etc... You will want 12 of your peers to think that shooting said individual was the last thing you wanted to do. If there is a "silencer" on your "sawed off assault rifle" it will be very easy for the prosecution to get the jury to think you were out looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

Don't believe me? Call your attorney and ask them what they think.

Wiskey_33
March 19, 2009, 01:07 PM
"Sawed off assault rifle."
:rolleyes:

Mines a factory AR15. Just happens to have a little less barrel than most peoples does. :)

Anyways, if they guy is in my house with ill intent, I should run to my safe and grab something a little more "practical" before he kills one of my family members?

I can see the suppressor argument, but all NFA items? Oh well, it doesn't matter since I wouldn't use the SBR anyhow. The 870 Express Super Magnum fits the bill for me.

jwalker497
March 19, 2009, 07:33 PM
So the suppressor might not be a useful SD tool?

MrNiceGuy
March 19, 2009, 07:39 PM
sure, it "might" be useful

but the law may frown upon it after the fact


i'd love to have suppressors on all of my weapons.
The ability to shoot without muffs and plugs and not bother people for miles around... there is no downside for me, besides the cost associated with it.

TheManHimself
March 19, 2009, 08:29 PM
Of course, if you're in a state that cares more about it's good citizens than its criminals (i.e. has castle law), as long as the shooting is legit there's no court case to worry about.

And if you don't, I'm not seeing where the hassles of obtaining an NFA Item wouldn't be just as good "Character witness" to your defense. After all, why would a person with malicious intent be willing to essentially sign his privacy over to federal law enforcement (BATFE)?

Wiskey_33
March 20, 2009, 06:08 AM
After all, why would a person with malicious intent be willing to essentially sign his privacy over to federal law enforcement (BATFE)?

How does owning an NFA item "sign my privacy" away whatsoever?

Chipperman
March 20, 2009, 11:37 AM
How does owning an NFA item "sign my privacy" away whatsoever?

Just for background check. Contrary to popular myth, owning NFA items does not allow ATF to come visit you whenever they want.

Wiskey_33
March 20, 2009, 12:08 PM
Just for background check.

No more intrusive than the NICS background check.

I've got an NFA item and don't recall an agent ever showing up at my house.:D

armsmaster270
March 20, 2009, 12:51 PM
If I remember right on another forum there was a dealer returning to his shop or home with one of his weapons and was attacked and all he had was his NFA weapon to defend himself and he had to pay some pretty hefty legal fees he wouldn't have had to pay if he had his carry gun.

aroundlsu
March 20, 2009, 05:11 PM
This is the setup I keep next to my bed at night and actually carried around town (discreetly) during the 3 weeks my city was out of power after Hurricane Gustav:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3371500036_7762df6c93_b.jpg
Find yourself in one of the highest crime areas of your city for three weeks with absolutely no power anywhere and see if you are still worried about lawyers or prosecutors.

From a non-defensive perspective, I was lucky to have an open Chinese Buffet within walking distance so food wasn't a problem but if I was starving I could have used my Ceiner .22 kit with the AR-15/Silencer combo and quietly shot all the squirrels I could eat.

The legal arguments are as old as the silencers themselves. Bottom line is, I can't think of any better tools to defend my home with and that's all that matters to me.

Chipperman
March 20, 2009, 06:52 PM
No more intrusive than the NICS background check.


I don't recall having to send fingerprints or pictures the last time I bought a Title I weapon.

Wiskey_33
March 22, 2009, 09:33 AM
I don't recall having to send fingerprints or pictures the last time I bought a Title I weapon.


And I don't recall doing it for my class 3 weapon.

Chipperman
March 22, 2009, 01:01 PM
So how did you get a personally owned NFA weapon without prints or pictures?

freakshow10mm
March 22, 2009, 01:39 PM
corporation or trust. The corp or trust owns it, you can possess it as a member of the corp or trustee of the trust.

Wiskey_33
March 22, 2009, 02:54 PM
corporation or trust. The corp or trust owns it, you can possess it as a member of the corp or trustee of the trust.

;)

Chipperman
March 22, 2009, 03:56 PM
Then it's not a personally owned weapon.

Wiskey_33
March 22, 2009, 05:03 PM
Then it's not a personally owned weapon.


I was just stating that the NFA background check was no more intrusive, in my case, than a regular NICS check.

freakshow10mm
March 22, 2009, 05:59 PM
Then it's not a personally owned weapon.
Correct. The trust owns the weapon.

Charles S
March 22, 2009, 06:15 PM
Not to be intrusive or rude , but why would you want one?

Not to be rude or intrusive, but why not?

paull
April 8, 2009, 03:54 PM
Strangely enough, I personally own no Class III firearms...
Of course, my LLC does though...
Funny how there are no other officers of the corporation.:)
p

Crosshair
April 8, 2009, 06:12 PM
In a HD situation, any defense lawyer that doesn't drool over themselves will be able to deflect any accusations. If the weapon was legally owned then there should not be a problem. I don't want to go deaf if i have to shoot inside an enclosed space.

People will sue over anything. If you beat an intruder with a wood baseball bat, they would sue you over not using a metal one and vise versa.

knight0334
April 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
I didn't see anyone reply about the PA info, but in PA all you have to do is acquire it through the proper NFA procedures.

Its the same process to build/buy a suppressor in PA as it is any other NFA device**: fill out form, get sign off, get photos and prints taken, send to ATF, wait, wait some more, receive canceled stamp, then complete transfer/build..

**The only prohibited NFA devices in PA are explosive and incendiary destructive devices.

smee78
May 26, 2009, 04:37 PM
O Lord hurry up and get the tin foil out they are comming to look in your safe!!!!!!