PDA

View Full Version : Can't Kill


roy reali
March 15, 2009, 09:05 AM
The wolf thread here has made me post this question. Is there any animal that you just couldn't shoot? I mean legal game or unprotected vermin. I know guys that bird hunt but will not shoot deer. Even amongst bird hunters there are some species that some guys can't or won't shoot.

I realize that this is an emotional topic. In a way it is silly. But us humans are emotional creatures and that often interferes with logic. I doubt if I could shoot a wolf. They are too close to being like domestic dogs for me. If I saw a wolf attacking a person or my dog was about to become a snack, yes, I would pull the trigger. But, if I saw a wolf standing in the open, minding its own business, I don't know if I could kill him. If I see a jackrabbit, I have no qualms about blasting it. Feral cats, no mercy there. I guess I just have a soft spot for canines.

Is there an animal that you can't bring yourself to kill?

P97
March 15, 2009, 09:32 AM
My answer to this question is I can kill anything that I have to for survival, but don't like to kill anything for the fun of killing. I do kill for food and wildlife control.

VaFisher
March 15, 2009, 09:33 AM
Humans make me feel like no other animal and have been spared the problem of having to pull the trigger a few different times being it worked out without shots fired. I have thought a few different times about other animals simply because I have had freinds say I do not have any interest in shooting a certian type of animal but have not come up with any other then the human kind for me.

Pbearperry
March 15, 2009, 09:35 AM
I will never kill a girraffe.I watched a big game hunter on TV do it and it made no sense to me at all.

BCeagle
March 15, 2009, 09:36 AM
Besides the obvious like a Bald eagle or Condor, I dont think I could kill any bird of prey, even a hawk or vulture, maybe its just respect for another predator. I also wouldnt shoot a mountain lion or wolf unless it was attacking someone (then again who is it attacking) Same reasoning.

My friend wont shoot a big buck, but he will shoot a doe without a second thought. I guess everyone has their reasoning.

I think everyone would shoot a boar.

BCeagle
March 15, 2009, 09:39 AM
"I will never kill a girraffe.I watched a big game hunter on TV do it and it made no sense to me at all."

I agree with that but I assumed we meant animals we see locally, I coudnt even shoot an exotic or endangered, makes no sense. I would hunt anything if I needed food,m but thankfully we arent in a society where we have to deal with that. Yet.

DiscoRacing
March 15, 2009, 09:42 AM
i would only shoot an animal that i can eat...ie rabbit, squirrel and deer.. i would shoot an animal if it were going to attack me or loved one..... hopefully I would never have to shoot any member of the tiger family... im kind of partial to the big cats...

Rigby1962
March 15, 2009, 09:49 AM
Elephant, Funny but I am probably most fascinated by the guns that where created to hunt them. I have nothing against those that do, and thank goodness or them or the guns I admire so much wouldnt exist.

AirForceShooter
March 15, 2009, 09:51 AM
If I'm going to eat it I'll kill it.

That's it

AFS

Art Eatman
March 15, 2009, 10:15 AM
For me, the broad generalization is that if I'm not gonna eat it, I'm not gonna kill it. If some species happens to be a problem for my normal activities, I'm willing to kill. Predators on my chickens/sheep/cattle, for instance. Feral cats and dogs as non-native predators on native wildlife.

But I don't get upset about armadillos digging in the lawn.

For me, then, my rather small dab of "bloodlust" is easily satisfied. The occasional coyote, when the local population is getting a bit big and they go to competing with me for quail. The key word is "occasional". Or a prairie dog hunt, since there's no way a guy with a rifle can seriously affect the population--and they are indeed pests for farmers and ranchers.

Varmint hunters kill a few furry animals. Politicians kill entire countries.

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 11:03 AM
I would never travel the world in search of a hunt. I will hunt any and all game available to me at one time or another for one reason or other. The rabbits me and lil miss.hogdogs shoot get fed to dogs and the 1-2 tree rats per week are for the snake. Feral non natives are on the top of my "HIT LIST" and buddy it is a hit list to be sure! I will flat spot a set of new tires to get a shot at a loose tabby cat!
Dillars only bug me in the woods where I control hogs and always try to get permission to get out thinning them as the colonies when thick are ideal to break my ankle in their holes.
No off-limits wildlife are interesting to me.
Brent

Dragon55
March 15, 2009, 11:16 AM
You know.. I've often wondered about deer hunting. I tried it once and was bored to tears. I've done a lot of hunting over the years.......... quail, grouse, pheasant, squirel, rabbit but have never understood the logicof deer hunting. My buddies declare they just love fresh venison. I say that is bs. For what they spend to get at most 150lb of venison I can get a s---load of of the best ribeye... which is WAY better. So.... again I don't understand the logic.

Dragon55
March 15, 2009, 11:20 AM
Oh yeah.... since I absolutely love dogs I could never shoot one unless it was hurting someone who hadn't provoked it or it was suffering needlessly. Also, anything that resembled a dog.... wolf, coyote, etc.

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65
March 15, 2009, 11:21 AM
G'day. Platypus, Bilby & Wedge Tail Eagle.

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 11:21 AM
There are far too many venison eaters that will turn down a 2 pound beef ribeye for a 3/4 pound venison steak! Apples and oranges! Totally different flavors for different palettes. Even a farm raised family steer which is far better tasting than feedlot beef is not preferred by many. I personally like a good piece of venison but my weakness is frogs... I will eat fryed frogs over any cut of beef any day!
Brent

Dragon55
March 15, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah... like froglegs too. Pop those with a little single shot 22 with flashlight taped to barrell.... but still prefer cornfed Limousine ribeyes (better than Angus BTW)

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 11:27 AM
I fry the whole frogs. Shoulder,front legs, back and rib meat is as good or better then the back legs.:D
Brent

Catfishman
March 15, 2009, 11:30 AM
I'll shoot anything I can eat, anything that is a threat and anything that is a nuisance. Like a armadillo, beaver, or skunk.

Is there anyone who wouldn't shoot a coyote?

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 11:47 AM
Catfish, Roy has started the thread by saying all canines get a "soft spot pass"...
I am sure there are many of us with one "special critter"... I would need a real big reason to shoot a nuisance river otter...
Brent

Flat Tire
March 15, 2009, 12:46 PM
The deal with the Idaho wolf is he has free reign. No one is hunting him and he has been protected. It has made for a scary situation. He is not a dog in his behavior. He does what he wants when he wants and the humans are told to stand aside and watch.

www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-mar1409-hailey_wolves.3618eb02.html

www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005125077&var_Year=2009&var_Month=03&var_Day=04

I stopped hunting deer and elk years ago, but this is different. You need to see this in person to make your mind up. He is the gray wolf, the big one, and when you see a group of 8 or 10 walking up a ridge in the city limits, it makes you think different. I have friends that have never hunted and now they own rifles. It is a fear based topic, but it is a real fear .

srt 10 jimbo
March 15, 2009, 01:18 PM
Shoot only what I can eat. Hog, Deer and Pheasent. Would only shoot a Bear or a Wolf if I was being attacked by one.:)

B. Lahey
March 15, 2009, 01:35 PM
As long as it's justified, no problem.

I worked for Animal Control for a while. Killed hundreds, maybe thousands of cats and almost as many dogs (including some dogs and cats I got to know and like). It's not fun at all, but if they gotta go, they gotta go.

I love animals, but they are not people. If there is a reason they need to die, I will kill them, and I won't beat myself up for it.

Big Bill
March 15, 2009, 01:47 PM
Any animal is open season for me unless it is protected by the law of the land. Animals were made for the use of man; and so, I also believe that unless there is a use for them or they present a danger (including depredation) to man, I will leave them alone. I would hesitate, however, to shoot a gorilla. The look too much like my old Pa! :eek:

Art Eatman
March 15, 2009, 03:16 PM
Dragon, I've been fortunate enough to hunt where either cross-country walking hunting was commonplace, or where sneaky-snaking around in swampy-jungly country was workable. Just sitting and waiting in a stand is not something I enjoy.

But kicking Bucky out of bed and watching hair stick out all directions, eyes rolling, is a hoot. Or easing along and finding a buck before he knows you're there gives a feeling of satisfaction even if he's too small to shoot.

I never worried about $/lb. At the old home ranch, it was maybe 20ยข for the whole bloomin' deer. :) Plus labor. At the deer lease? My father always said that it was worth a few hundred bucks a year for the right to trespass across some rancher's several thousand acres. A deer on the ground is worth maybe four bits, 'cause the fun's over and the work begins. Heck, the campfire companionship was worth a few hundred bucks.

Radar3006
March 15, 2009, 03:20 PM
I have shot lots of animals the last three years but only with my Canon digital SLR ..:D ..don't get me wrong i have shot my share of deer with the ole o6 but I don't worry if I am going to kill something or not i just enjoy being in the outdoors and away from the scumbags here in town ....I do have my 30 rd. mags loaded for the Bushy just in case the do have open season for the scumbags

jmiller676
March 15, 2009, 03:31 PM
Eagles, Hawks, Falcons and Swallows I love how Swallows look when they're flying.

Scorch
March 15, 2009, 03:54 PM
I could kill anything, 10-legged, 8-legged, 6-legged, 4-legged, 2-legged. Doesn't matter. Whether I would or not is another issue.

grymster2007
March 15, 2009, 04:00 PM
Shot a few (very few actually) squirrels and rabbits as a young guy, and I think I'd shoot a pheasant and maybe other game I would eat, but for the most part, killing things isn't something I like to do. I couldn't see myself shooting another predator, except maybe a shark.... they're all just to damn magnificent to me. OTOH, I have no problem with others who want to shoot animals for food or in defense of persons or property.

Don't much care for trophy hunting. And while I don't really care what others do, shooting from a blind or tree stand is what I call ambushing, rather than hunting.

Anyone know if giraffe is good?

jjwestbrook
March 15, 2009, 04:09 PM
i wouldn't want to shoot a bear , unless it was in self-defense.

TheNatureBoy
March 15, 2009, 04:23 PM
Me killing an animal has to meet 2 criteria. Is the animal I'm hunting and about to kill legal/in season, and do I intend to eat the animal once I kill it. I will not for any reason kill animal for the sake of killing.

HiBC
March 15, 2009, 04:32 PM
Most of the typical African game I have no interest in shooting,except with a camera.Buffalo,maybe.Some antelope,maybe.Elephants,cats,giraffe,rhino ,hippo,zebra? No,thank you.Crocs? maybe.

I'll go deer or elk hunting for the trip,and,I'll happily shoot,while perhaps it is supposed to be the point,it is not the point for me.It is the other parts of the hunt.
Some critters,like prairie dogs invading private pasture,are nuisance targets.I can understand feral hogs being the same way.
Some idiots with a wolf sanctuary ran out of resources and released their wolves near here.Not a DOW project.If I see one I will shoot it

If I found a rattler near a house,I'd kill it.In a prairie dog town or away from folks,I leave it alone.

rantingredneck
March 15, 2009, 04:36 PM
I'll shoot a coyote without a second thought.

Even if I've been sitting in a tree stand for 4 hours waiting on that monster buck I saw on a trail cam last night and a yote comes out first, he's toast. No exceptions.

I would not do the same with wolves were they present here. Don't ask me to explain it as I have no real logical explanation.

Beyond that, birds of prey even if they were legal, would be off my list.

I basically shoot what I intend to eat and nuisance animals like 'yotes.

jdscholer
March 15, 2009, 07:10 PM
I agree with Brent on the river otter. There is just no good reason to kill something that has so much fun.

It seems that most of us as boys, go through a stage where we want to make the hills run red with blood. I went through it, and nothing was safe. I haven't seen this in girls, but they are often more sensible than guys on many things.;)

Now as I get older, I find myself becoming a big softy. I absolutely hate seeing dead critters on the road. -- seems like a horrible waste of life, as well as meat.

I love eating most all of the critters that roam the earth, and I like the furs and leather hides of several that I wouldn't eat.

One thing is certain, and that is that we had better show good purpose in what we kill and how we kill it these days. We are living in a world where a lot of these idiots put more value on animal life than they do on humans. If any one of us does a poor, ugly, or excessive job of killing, it will be played to the hilt in order to make all hunters look bad.

Sometimes discretion is needed. For instance, I won't condemn the clubbing of baby seals, but ya gotta admit that it looks pretty bad on the evening news. jd

Dragon55
March 15, 2009, 07:28 PM
I can see the sneaking up thing on a deer would be a thrill to get away with it. I can also sneak up on my dog ... or even the old lady's cat but I ain't gonna shoot 'em. And also, 'Thinning 'em out helps the population'. That's BS and you know it. Who the hell was around in 1700 with friggin scopes and 30-30's to do the thinning? Uh.. well no one. That's right.

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 07:34 PM
Dragon, You ever hear of CWD? That is a problem in areas with excessive populations caused by too short of seasons and low bag limits...
In the 1700's very few folks had livestock and killing was year around so I think populations were kept in check partly due to the fact that most people ate deer year around. the .50 Hawkin was a lethal deer gun in the hands of your average guy who depended on it to feed the family!
Brent

HankB
March 15, 2009, 08:03 PM
Like a previous poster, I have no interest in shooting a giraffe . . . I still have memories of hand-feeding them at the zoo when I was a kid. And when I've seen them in the wild, they seemed so placid and inoffensive I saw no point to it.

On the other hand, if there weren't safety issues to contend with (I'm in a populated area with NO safe line of fire in any direction), no free-roaming felis domesticus that I could see from my window would be safe.

HiBC
March 15, 2009, 08:20 PM
Dragon,I do not mean this as an attack on you.I just want to use your position as a point to make a counter point on.
No disrespect to you.

If you go to the predator thread,near this one,I wrote at length.

We all kill.If we accept that,there is a humility we can find about respecting life.
If you buy skinless,boneless ,bloodless chicken breasts under cellophane at the grocery store,that is fine!! enjoy!Just remember in the price per pound,you hired someone to kill,and rip its guts out.Hiring the killer,is it different?

Chickens are different? Ask a chicken.Is there life in a grain of wheat?

Does clearing a field and farming kill animals? There is death in spinach.Dead deer,too.

In one of Ruarks books,he brings up the point,there is no kind,gentle death in bed for creatures in nature.The lion is eaten alive by hyenas when he is old.

Death is inevitable for all of us,and it is good to know we are all part of the circle of Life.

Now,I do agree,it is appropriate to take something sacred to the hunt,and not all hunters do that.

But,I think it is darn near certain that anyone who eats,even Vegans,that looks down their nose at an ethical,honest hunter,does not know where they are in the Circle of Life.And those that deny they kill,have not found something sacred

roy reali
March 15, 2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks for all the replies. It seems that many people here draw the line at birds of prey. I wouldn't shoot them either even if it was legal.

hogdogs
March 15, 2009, 08:25 PM
Roy, If the bird of prey were invading an area where it was a non native specie I would add it to my "hit list" if the powers that be deemed it harmful and put varmint status on the head of them. But they just don't seem to spread like other vermin...
Brent

Inspector3711
March 16, 2009, 12:30 AM
I've known since I was in my pre-teen years that I have the capacity to kill. I also have the ability to live with it. That said, I have chosen to follow the laws of the land wherever I may be. I have made the personal choice not to kill that which I know is endangered. Not to kill that which is out of season or illegal. I also will not waste edible meat from what are considered game animals.

If the rules change and I need to eat or to protect myself, family, or property... Or there is some plague of varmints.... Then I have the ability to do what it takes and live with it. I might shoot a varmint or two just for fun now.

Of course, this may not always mean using a firearm.

BillCA
March 16, 2009, 01:59 AM
For me I guess it boils down to this ....

- There's nothing I won't in my defense. Any animal attacks me, threatens to attack me, I'll kill it if I can or if I have to.

- There are few animals I won't kill to survive. If it's starvation for me, or me and my family or group, as long as the critter is edible we'll probably kill it and eat it.

- I will hunt for food animals. And to keep down predatory species where necessary. I will let others trophy hunt as they desire, it's just not for me.

This does not mean I won't bag a coyote if the opportunity presents itself and it's legal. Or shoot any animal I think is rabid.

But there are certain animals that I can see no reason for shooting. Hummingbirds for instance. The coldest depths of hell should be reserved for those who willfully kill them (right next to the spot for those who abandon or drown kittens).

Sea or river otters I can't see shooting unless there is some serious reason. I hate seeing Tigers killed, along with most large cats... but I also understand there are times when it must be done. And don't consider safaris one of those times. Gorilla or Giraffe are others I wouldn't kill except in defense.

I will add that any animal that is slowly dying in some dreadful or painful way I will end its suffering.

troy_mclure
March 16, 2009, 02:14 AM
theres nothing i wont kill if there is a reason, IE: tasty, varmint, threat, good target, trophy hunt, etc...

freakintoguns
March 16, 2009, 02:39 AM
the animals id have abig issue with having to kill would be Wolves, tigers Lions and apes/monkeys. i would kill them if the need arised though. Feral dogs, cats, hogs, rats, squriels etc are all things that i would kill on sight without a second thought. of course id probably bury the cats dogs and rats. the others id eat. i also see no reason to go on a safari to kill rhinos or zebras. like other posters though, i have a affinty for the guns used to take such beasts.

davlandrum
March 16, 2009, 11:12 AM
Off the top, let's take any non-legal off the list - I think that takes care of birds of prey.

My personal NEVER of the things I can legally hunt or legally kill are coots. I have "ate" coots twice. :barf:

Short of a life or death situation, I can honestly say never again. Even in a life or death, I might be tempted to eat my boots first...

It would be easier to skip the killing and just dreg some mud off the bottom of the lake, make it into a ball, wrap it in bacon and cook it....

johnwilliamson062
March 16, 2009, 11:19 AM
I don't think I would have any trouble shooting a Lion, hippo, elephant, apes or whatever as long as I or someone else was going to eat it. On many African safaris locals eat the meat.

Giraffes would be really hard for me. Giraffes have long been my favorite animal. They are just so cute...

onthejon55
March 16, 2009, 12:29 PM
Hawks, watching them swoop down on unsespecting prey has given them a special place in my heart. Its almost like theyre doing the same thing im doing when im in a stand.

ZeSpectre
March 16, 2009, 12:33 PM
As a youth helping with pest control around the farm I discovered that I just couldn't pull the trigger on Beaver. Spent a LOT of my own time and effort live-trapping and relocating them because I just couldn't do it. Strange because I had no issue with woodchucks.

freakshow10mm
March 16, 2009, 12:41 PM
I don't think there's an animal I woudn't kill. Some look cool but in the end they are just animals.

Buzzcook
March 16, 2009, 02:02 PM
I don't care for the taste of bear meat.

I also don't like to kill things on the top of the food chain.

If giraffes were local and they tasted good I'd shoot them. Traveling around the world is just too pricey for a hunting fix.

Brian Pfleuger
March 16, 2009, 02:04 PM
I don't begrudge anyone who wants to hunt anything but I have no interest in Buffalo "hunting". You could dress up an old milk cow with big horns and get just as much challenge.

johnwilliamson062
March 16, 2009, 02:20 PM
I would buffalo hunt if it was more economical than buying the meat from a supplier.

SavageSniper
March 16, 2009, 03:42 PM
I would not shoot a bald eagle unless I had to. Just seems wrong. Anything else would get far less concern, even other birds of prey weather I can eat it or not. My species has spent millions of years getting to the top of the food chain and I will not give it up to some bunny or tree hugger:D

armsmaster270
March 16, 2009, 03:46 PM
"Quote P97"
My answer to this question is I can kill anything that I have to for survival, but don't like to kill anything for the fun of killing. I do kill for food and wildlife control.
__________________

What he said

wpcexpert
March 16, 2009, 04:47 PM
The only animal I wouldn't kill, even if legal, was a Gorilla or chimp. Don't really have a reason. Everything else, if it's legal to do so, bring it.

I can see the sneaking up thing on a deer would be a thrill to get away with it. I can also sneak up on my dog ... or even the old lady's cat but I ain't gonna shoot 'em. And also, 'Thinning 'em out helps the population'. That's BS and you know it. Who the hell was around in 1700 with friggin scopes and 30-30's to do the thinning? Uh.. well no one. That's right.

WOW. Obviously you don't hunt. There wasn't anyone around with scopes thinning herds and populations in the 1700's. But also there were about 300 million less people in the US. You need to do some more research about the topic before getting all fired up and disrespecting someones passions and jobs.

Here are the cliff notes:
- Humans have invaded the homes of animals. Every town, sub-division, and home. There is less room for the animals to live. So humans have to keep populations down or mother nature will.
- Food wasn't as abundant in 1700. The tremendous agriculture we have today is another reason there are so many animals. There is more food, thus equals more to go around, equals more animals.
- Whitetail deer populations are about 1000 times more today than they were in the 1700s. More deer equals more predators.
- We have tried the don't shoot the deer thing. At first, somewhere in the mid-west(I can't remember where) there was no regulation on hunting. They nearly wiped out the deer population. They were reintroduced, with no hunting. They all died again because there weren't enough predators to control the population. Mother nature is a B**** if you let her run her course. I don't know if you have ever seen a deer that is starving to death in the winter. I have, it was pitiful and sad.

Bottom line, hunting and wildlife population management is a necessity in todays age. With the human population growing and expanding. Everyday, hundreds(if not more) of acres of wildlife homes are taken away. Where do YOU expect them to live? Now you are putting more deer in a smaller space. A space that could only hold a certain number of deer in the first place.

Here is where I stand:
Wildlife
Population
Control
Expert

Art Eatman
March 16, 2009, 06:03 PM
Dragon55, after you read up on things like carrying capacity of the habitat and population dynamics of species, come back and offer your opinions. But until you have a decent grounding in those subjects, don't betray your lack of knowledge by saying what you did. You're bucking up against folks with decades of experience and more than a trivial amount of technical education in wildlife biology.

Sure, you have a right to your opinion, but that particular opinion is invalid. "Not all opinions are created equal."

:), Art

Daryl
March 16, 2009, 07:39 PM
Is there any animal that you just couldn't shoot?

Nope. As long as it's in season, and I'm carrying the required licenses and/or tags, I'll pretty much take the shot.

But, there really should be some purpose to it. I'll shoot vermin to help with damage control, or game animals for food. Without a good reason to shoot it, I'd just as soon let it be.

Daryl

piratecountry
March 16, 2009, 08:33 PM
No desire to shoot a bear, either black or griz. I have eaten bear and it was good but have no desire to hunt them. Good times for people that do. I surely don't look down on them or begrudge them. We have some big black bear in NC.

dan

djohn
March 16, 2009, 09:20 PM
I Got my Hunting license when my friend nagged me to no end to go Hunting with Him,So I applied did the hunting class hours and passed.I finally went hunting 12 gauge slug and I have No experience In Hunting so my friend was the teacher err,What a piece of work he is. first off he made more noise entering the forest Good gosh and If there where any deers they new we where there.We found are spots and waited in one spot freezing my ars off all day not one dam deer to be seen.After hours of senseless BS we left and He had the compass So I followed the nimrod and we got lost thanks a lot Daniel Boone. Then finally came out to a road about 2 miles away from his truck.On top of that as we where just about to exit beyond safe hunting grounds guess whats on the other side of the road that continues back to the forest.Yep a 10 point buck at nearly the edge of the street and my friend spots it and is ready to blast bambie across a main rd good God help me.My thoughts where that I am going to jail. I looked I could see in its eyes and to be honest it was one of the most beautiful creature and my heart melted.So why my buddie was loading back up I found a nice big rock and through it to scare the deer away it worked.MY friend was ****** to almost the point I thought I was walking Home with a shotgun over my shoulder.Since then Nope sorry I Love deers and will not ever go hunting for deer especially with this dude beside that it ended are friendship.

Chui
March 16, 2009, 10:02 PM
There is NO THING that I could just shoot for the sake of shooting. It's just not in me. There are some things I'd never hunt: Top Predators; Big Cats; Bears. Other animals I'd never put a bead on or cross hair on: elephants, hippos, rhinos. Essentially, if I won't eat it I won't hunt it. If it eats meat then I feel "connected" to it (we both hunt). If he lets me alone (and I'll do little more than watch them) then they are free to do as the please as long as it's not chew/claw on me.

zahnzieh
March 16, 2009, 10:38 PM
Never cared to shoot a coyote until I saw what real vermin they are. Carriers of disease for humans and animals, dog killers. Have seen a deer whose antlers caught on a fence disemboweled and eaten alive by these brutes! Friend of mine's dairy cow giving birth in the field, calf pulled out and eaten, cow hemmorhaged to death. Cant say i like shooting birds neither, too stupid!:D:D

Casimer
March 16, 2009, 10:39 PM
Giraffes, Otters, Kittens ..

and Pikachus

http://pikachuandpals.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pikachu.jpg?w=300&h=279

My niece would never forgive me.

Capt Charlie
March 16, 2009, 10:42 PM
Ya know, when I was young, I shot darned near everything and never gave it a thought. One day, or maybe it was over time, I woke up to find that I wasn't comfortable with killing any more.

I'll still shoot coyotes in a heartbeat, or anything else that needs killing, but I just don't get a thrill out of it any more. It's just a chore that needs doing.

Maybe, and I don't want to sound melodramatic or such, after years in law enforcement and seeing a lot of death, I came to realize the value of life. Maybe I'm just getting older. I don't know.

At any rate, I did miss the thrill of the stalk, and I still enjoy shooting, so I cut down an old rifle stock, modified it to accommodate my old Nikon F2 with a long lens and motor drive, and ran a cable release through the trigger guard.

I still hunt and stalk, and shoot a "rifle" at critters, but my trophies are photos and my Boone and Crockett shots make it to wildlife & nature magazines rather than my wall.

djohn
March 16, 2009, 11:58 PM
Yes coyotes are Growing by the numbers Here In CT,They are killers of peoples pets live stock and can pose a danger to small children and perhaps adults and is a growing problem for farmers.It is time to break out the snipper riffles and weed them out.

wyobohunter
March 17, 2009, 12:09 AM
"I don't begrudge anyone who wants to hunt anything but I have no interest in Buffalo "hunting". You could dress up an old milk cow with big horns and get just as much challenge."

While this is likely true in most lower 48 hunts with semi-tame and partly penned animals; it is not the case for Alaskan Buffalo hunting. Look into hunting the wild herds up north and let me know if you still stand behind that generalization.

wyobohunter
March 17, 2009, 12:16 AM
It cracks me up when people have one or more mall ninja rambo guns (for killing other humans and nothing else I presume) and or will sit there chewing on a beefsteak (they don't count as animals?) talking about how they could "never shoot a beautifull animal such as a deer". I'd rather hang out with a vegetarian; at least he wouldn't be a hypocrit.

Hirlau
March 17, 2009, 01:58 AM
+1 Captain Charlie

Quote; "Maybe, and I don't want to sound melodramatic or such, after years in law enforcement and seeing a lot of death, I came to realize the value of life. Maybe I'm just getting older. I don't know."

I feel the same way, it's not age.

I have tried not to post on this thread, because my views conflict with senior members here on the hunting issue; otherwise I agree most of the time on their other posts.

If a problem exists, two or four legged, then I do what I have to. I first must ask and answer the question," Is is necessary?"
My Grandfather and Uncles taught me to hunt when I was young, continued through high school; then life got fast and busy.

I have an 11 year old son, don't think I will teach him the skill. I can't answer the above question with a, "Yes".

His firearm skills are progressing well. They are more centered around handling proficiency and home/self defense.

I wonder often if there is a benefit to teaching him to hunt in this day and era. Maybe I am afraid to remove his "innocence".

I do understand and agree on the "population control" of some species in certain areas, for the benefit of all.

God knows I do love the taste of wild pork & venison, my stomach betrays me.:eek:


I feel that hunting in some cases has become a game/sport ( baiting with 50 yard shots from a well stocked tree house, African game shot among the mango /palm trees on someone's 100 acre backyard.

Has the Art/Skill of hunting left us?

MikeinLA
March 17, 2009, 05:29 AM
First, a few caveats....I'm a "city" guy and have never lived near the woods. I've never had predators attack my cattle or chickens and I've always lived within a few miles of a supermarket. The argument of population control has been explained to me and I do get it. I'm not sure I understand why if there are just SO MANY deer that they need to be thinned, why does it take all day to get lucky and see one wander by? Hmm. You would think they'd be all over the place, wouldn't you? I'm also not sure how you know you're not shooting the strong ones who would have survived the winter. I think I appreciate bowhunters a bit more than LR scope hunters, there just seems to be more skill involved in stalking to get in close. I also appreciate hunters who stalk game who can, and may, kill them instead. That seems more sporting. I mean, shooting a deer with a high powered rifle from 100 yards, where's the sport? Why not just carpet-bomb the woods? I could certainly kill a wild animal who was terrorizing the neighborhood, but that's hunting for a purpose in my mind. And I DO consider animals who are raised like crops (beef, etc) to be different than animals in the wild. I have absolutely NO disrespect for hunters, I was just not raised around it. I also kid my buddy who blew 80 grand on a boat so he can go out and catch a few hundred bucks worth of fish. Like I said, I'm a "city" guy. Popping a bullseye on a target gives me all the satisfaction I need. Maybe one of you guys ought to take me hunting. I'd probably love it and then we could all have a good laugh.

Mike

hogdogs
March 17, 2009, 09:20 AM
Mike, Very well put and I will politely rake you over the proverbial coals...:D
From bottom to top...
Maybe one of you guys ought to take me hunting. I'd probably love it and then we could all have a good laugh.
I would take you up on that... A dogs on hogs no guns hunt... That is about as up close and personal as I can find. Should be fairly easy for you to "justify" as these are are crop damaging feral hogs.
I also kid my buddy who blew 80 grand on a boat so he can go out and catch a few hundred bucks worth of fish.
I too am guilty of being an offshore sport fisherman... If I never spend another dime doing it, I will never get my fish under $700 per pound in my whole life if I limit out every trip I go on for free...:o But the time and research planning the trip and taking care of boat and gear is as much fun as the fish fight... And I know how fresh my fish is. Try sushi of yellow fin while it has never been in a cooler and tell me you enjoy it the same in a restaurant following such experience.
And I DO consider animals who are raised like crops (beef, etc) to be different than animals in the wild. I have absolutely NO disrespect for hunters, I was just not raised around it.
But they are all living creatures. If a bible believer than all the animals are here to provide for man as are the grains of the earth. Ask the cow in line at the slaughter house how they feel as they walk the "green mile".
I could certainly kill a wild animal who was terrorizing the neighborhood, but that's hunting for a purpose in my mind.
I feel killing without purpose is wanton waste of wildlife as do most game law makers. But purpose to you is different than to me and my purpose is different than that of a trophy rack hunter. For me, I am able to reduce the food bill at home to the tune of pennies per pound if I get more than 2 deer with one round each... The purpose for the rack hunter is to put a big set of antlers on the wall which requires planning the hunt and restraint in letting the little guy walk. I just hope they eat the meat or give it to someone who will.
I think I appreciate bowhunters a bit more than LR scope hunters, there just seems to be more skill involved in stalking to get in close. I also appreciate hunters who stalk game who can, and may, kill them instead. That seems more sporting. I mean, shooting a deer with a high powered rifle from 100 yards, where's the sport? Why not just carpet-bomb the woods?
Many bow hunters use superior wallets to fund superior spending on superior camo and scent control items as well as high dollar calls. Many rifle hunters stalk to prey. I am one and I usually wear just an old camo shirt from the yard sale table and a pair of jeans. It isn't as easy as you realize to send a bullet on even a short 100 yard trip. It must fly true and not find so much as pine needles in flight that will send it errant.
I'm also not sure how you know you're not shooting the strong ones who would have survived the winter.
By strong we are not after the sick or afflicted. It is the genetically strong deer that produce the bigger better quality specimen we try to conserve... Momma ain't gonna be happy if I feed her a sick deer:barf: But a small bodied older deer with small racks produce likewise weak offspring.
The argument of population control has been explained to me and I do get it. I'm not sure I understand why if there are just SO MANY deer that they need to be thinned, why does it take all day to get lucky and see one wander by? Hmm. You would think they'd be all over the place, wouldn't you?
The reason you do not see them everywhere you look is due to hunting and other controls. There is an island off the coast of Cali that had elk and hog issues due to no hunting and they are destroying a delicate ecosystem unique to that spot.
Also if you spend some time in areas with limited deer season and meager bag limits you will see higher pressure placed on crops and may even see the starving deer others mentioned or you may hear of the WHOLE HERD exterminations completed by paid sharp shooters so they can burn and bury them as they are diseased. Around me we have a HEAVY population as well as many car accidents caused by deer. But if you get off the paved roads and keep your eyes and ears open, if they are moving, on any given morning or evening you may get to see a dozen or more healthy deer, many of which will have presented shot opportunity if we were hunting.
First, a few caveats....I'm a "city" guy and have never lived near the woods. I've never had predators attack my cattle or chickens and I've always lived within a few miles of a supermarket.
Ain't life a bugger!!!:cool: Not all of us get to live in paradise... I feel for ya!:D I have never lived out of reach of at least a decent little country store that sells meat but I have been too poor to let out the heat or air conditioning opening their door...:o As "Hirlau" said above your post "my stomach betrays me"... We have a country store that sells pork from the smaller meat packers who buy pigs from smaller farms and I assure you the crap in a chain supermarket doesn't compare and my wife saves 33% at least.
Then there is the wild pork that tastes even better. Deer IMHO has a flavor all it's own and not everyone will love it but most will find it, at minimum, satisfying....
Thank you for understanding I tried to post this in a respectful way and was not intending to offend you or your opinion in the least...
Brent

Brian Pfleuger
March 17, 2009, 10:32 AM
Look into hunting the wild herds up north and let me know if you still stand behind that generalization.

All generalizations fall apart at some point.;):)

FrankenMauser
March 17, 2009, 11:00 AM
Even after more close calls and mock charges than I would ever want... I really have no intention to kill a bear; whatever it's color may be.

Bears aside, I really have no desire to hunt species that don't offer a challenge. Animals that let you walk to within 20 yards of them, in plain sight, just don't appeal to me. It's the hunt that gets me out in the woods.

Art Eatman
March 17, 2009, 11:44 AM
Generalization: Young folks don't have a lot of judgement about killing and can lack discrimination. As they mature, the whole ethics deal becomes part of their hunting. With more age, teaching young folks becomes as important as their own kill. Older folks, then, do less hunting and more teaching and socializing around a campfire.

Part of teaching a youngun about hunting MUST include teaching about ethics. That is an adult's responsibility, a father's duty to his son. "Guns'n'huntin'" are part of the real world, and there is no way to know if a non-hunting 12-year-old will or will not begin hunting later in life. If the ethics are already in place, duty is done.

One of the best reads on this whole subject is Robert Ruark's "The Old Man And The Boy". Very enjoyable vignettes of growing up in the world of hunting and fishing, but more lessons in ethics than any university text ever thought of.

Art Eatman
March 17, 2009, 12:07 PM
MikeinLA, one thing to remember is that deer spend 365 days a year in the practice of being a deer. Part of their deal is to avoid predators. Wild predators also spend 365 days a year being predators.

People spend only a few days a year being predators.

The population dynamics of deer is a geometric progression. A doe can be impregnated at 1.5 years of age--as can her doe fawns. A doe can easily produce five doe fawns in a breeding lifetime. If there is sufficient cover via thick vegetation, you're back to the 365 days a year thing. Lotsa deer, but hard to find.

About forty or fifty years ago, the Michigan wildlife folks erected a deer-proof fence around 100 acres of thick forest. They made sure that there was a near-maximum population of deer inside, but not above the carryiing capacity of the food supply. They then let hunters in, with controls of numbers and length of hunt. Lots of deer, lots of hunting time. The success rate was around three percent. This was a rather uncommon circumstance, of course, but it serves to show how thick cover can provide security against human predation.

As far as the tools, I've occasionally offered a deal to a doubter: I'll set up a camera rifle. There will be crosshairs in the focal plane of the camera. The trigger of the rifle will control the shutter. Zoom lens of at least 3X. All the doubter has to do is provide me with a print of the crosshairs in the correct location for a kill-shot on a running deer at a hundred yards or thereabouts--and he can collect $1,000. If not, pay me. Simple enough deal: Find Bambi, kick him out of bed, raise up and shoot. Kill Bambi. He's only going 30mph; oughta be easy. :)

davlandrum
March 17, 2009, 12:45 PM
Hirlau,

I wonder often if there is a benefit to teaching him to hunt in this day and era.

Not taking you to task - your choices do not have to match my choices.

There are many things today that you can make the same arguement about. I wonder often if there is a benefit to teaching my kids how to change the oil in the car in this day and era. After all, there is always a "Wonder-lube" around that will do it for you for $29.99.

Or change a tire (there is always AAA), or plant corn and beans, or dig potatoes (grocery store), or feed the chickens so we have eggs (and clean the coop).

There is value, at least in my mind, in doing the work to reap the reward. The world is not always about instant gratification or taking the easy way.

For me personally, I am never more alive than while hunting. No job, no cell phone, no static - just me and nature. Sometimes I am good enough to kill an animal, sometimes the animal is better. It is OK either way. And if I do kill a deer or an elk, I have made a choice to take full personal responsiblity for that death to put food on my table.

How many people would eat at McD's, if they had to personally kill the cow and butcher it?

Again, I don't walk in your shoes so this is not judgemental, just my perspective.

Dave

Hirlau
March 17, 2009, 04:38 PM
Quote:
" Not taking you to task - your choices do not have to match my choices.

I don't understand this sentence; how could you take me to task?:confused:

There are many things today that you can make the same arguement about. I wonder often if there is a benefit to teaching my kids how to change the oil in the car in this day and era. After all, there is always a "Wonder-lube" around that will do it for you for $29.99.

Or change a tire (there is always AAA), or plant corn and beans, or dig potatoes (grocery store), or feed the chickens so we have eggs (and clean the coop).

You obviously missed the point of my post. Changing the oil, tires,or feeding the chickens ( all things my 11 year old has done) have nothing in similarity with the issue of teaching my son to hunt or not.

There is value, at least in my mind, in doing the work to reap the reward. The world is not always about instant gratification or taking the easy way.

Agreed !

For me personally, I am never more alive than while hunting. No job, no cell phone, no static - just me and nature. Sometimes I am good enough to kill an animal, sometimes the animal is better. It is OK either way. And if I do kill a deer or an elk, I have made a choice to take full personal responsiblity for that death to put food on my table.

How could you NOT be fully responsible for the kill, choice or not?

How many people would eat at McD's, if they had to personally kill the cow and butcher it?

Probably not many, mainly because they're too damn lazy; nothing to do with the methods of the kill & butcher of the animal. If anything , I find this generation to be less sensitive/responsible on the issues of life and death. Thank God , most of this generation has no interest in hunting.

Again, I don't walk in your shoes so this is not judgemental, just my perspective."[/B]

Our current environments are probably different, but our "shoes" are stamped with the same manufacturer's label, I bet ;)


John
USMC[/COLOR]

Art Eatman
March 17, 2009, 05:05 PM
Okay, we're drifting off-topic. Before posting--whether new or repetitive--go back and read the opening post. Either post in relation to it, or don't post.

Take personal argument to PM or email.

Hirlau
March 17, 2009, 05:43 PM
Quote: "Is there an animal that you can't bring yourself to kill?"

My Answer: "No, there is not" The simple of it.

MikeinLA
March 17, 2009, 07:19 PM
"Ain't life a bugger!!! Not all of us get to live in paradise... I feel for ya!"

Hi HogDogs. No offense taken as none was intended. As for your above statement, here's a funny story. When my kid was going to Ohio State last fall, I was researching the real estate market there just for fun. I found a 2,500 sq ft house 50 miles outside Columbus on 200 ACRES with a LAKE and a RIVER and all kinds of game, all for the price of my stupid condo in Los Angeles. I gave some serious thought to that, I may end up in "paradise" yet.

Be well, Mike

publius
March 17, 2009, 09:35 PM
I could kill any animal in the right circumstance. For those that haven't been on an African safari and say "poor elephant, or poor giraffe", it's the hunting fees that are guaranteeing their existance and the Africans eat the meat. If I ever see a Labrador duck I'll let it go:p

wyobohunter
March 17, 2009, 10:36 PM
I'd blast a unicorn. I hate unicorns! hehe Oh, and Picachu too.

Inspector3711
March 18, 2009, 12:05 AM
I forgot about unicorns.. I kill them and care bears on site. Shoot first ask later.

I killed a kitten once when I was in high school. It was a stray and was horribly sick. My dad didn't want to spend money on the vet and we were afraid what it had might make our cat or dogs sick. So I went out with the old .30-30 that was grandpas and did what I needed to do. If you guys watch Ax Men, I was in the hills around Vernonia, Oregon on a hillside that was being logged. I guess it was 1981 or 1982. That was when I knew there was nothing I couldn't kill if I needed to. It bothered me for a day or so as I recall, being a cute little kitten and all. What I realized before and after was that it had to be done and nobody else was doing it for me. I was dumb enough to feed it so it wouldn't go away.

I'd slaughtered hogs, rabbits, and chickens before. The woods nearest to our house had few birds by the time I moved out and fewer squirrels. I hunted opossums and coons too and had killed a stray that gave the neighbors cat rabies. That kitten was the difficult one though. I suppose since it wasn't wild and able to fend for itself. If you can do that, for me anyway, killing a bad guy or anything else should be no problem.

phil mcwilliam
March 19, 2009, 02:31 AM
I was on a pig culling trip on a huge remote cattle property in the Top End of Australia several years ago. We were asked to cull 6 "Brumbies"and felt obliged as the request had come directly from the property owner. I have been hunting for over 30 years & have accounted for many species of animals in several different countries, including Africa, but I found it uncomfortable shooting wild horses.

Crankylove
March 19, 2009, 11:39 PM
Won't shoot any protected species (birds of prey, ferrets, wolves :(, etc)

Any none game animal is fair game (birds, squirrells, snakes, rabbits, etc). Any predator coming after me is fair game.

I will go after any big game animal (deer, elk, antelope, moose, big horn sheep, bison, etc) I draw out for........cause they taste so yummie :D

Just a question.....How many people here won't shoot an animal except in self-defense, or maybe not even then, but love to go fishing and fry up some golden fried fishies for beakfast or dinner?

Mr Odd Six
March 20, 2009, 02:46 AM
I have one simple rule:

If I think its gonna kill me or mine, it hits the ground dead.

I dont care whom or what it is.

As long as I can buy food at the store, there is no reason for me to kill critters.

You do what you have to do, to stay alive.

Period

sc928porsche
March 23, 2009, 12:11 AM
Key to survival: If it moves, it is edible...it may not be very palatable, but it is edible.

damien1988
March 23, 2009, 05:10 AM
phill mac i agree with you there i have been on pig/roo/goat culls where i have been asked to kill wild brumbies and i couildent do it i dont feel right takeing a shot at such a beautyfull creature + i grew up with horses and kno how good a wild stallion can be once broken

FrontSight
March 27, 2009, 12:03 AM
Giraffe, cause my wife loves em. And cause they have the cutest damn lips when they eat that bread out of your hand at six flags, makes you wanna pinch their cheeks, adopt them and name em George.

Camels, and lamas, for the same reason.

And horses, man do I love horses. Zebras I would blast without batting an eye tho.

Dying Chimpmunks are a pitiful sight.

Wow, I really have grown soft over the years.

mr kablammo
March 27, 2009, 10:36 PM
Elephant, giraffe, komodo dragon, hummingbird, and songbirds (bless you grandma, RIP). I guess that bringing up the hummingbird is so far removed from the ideal of hunting that it seems preposterous. I have an aquaintance that confessed that as a child he shot a hummer with a BB gun. :mad: Fool! I would like to really bear down on hogs, feral cats, crows, pigeons, and grackles. Guess that is the city boy's idea of 'cleaning up'.

Kreyzhorse
March 28, 2009, 07:50 AM
I hunt deer, turkey, antelope and dove for food. What I can't do is get into vermin hunting like coyotes or praire dogs. I don't have a problem with others doing it, but it just isn't for me.

Not that I can afford it, but I could never shoot an elephant. Those creatures are just too wonderous for me to shoot.

Para Bellum
March 28, 2009, 12:35 PM
My answer to this question is I can kill anything that I have to for survival, but don't like to kill anything for the fun of killing. I do kill for food and wildlife control.
100%. Well spoken.

RockyTop
April 8, 2009, 07:55 PM
I could shoot anything if I had to in order to survive. But growing up, no one in my family hunted and I never really took it up either. We weren't opposed to it, but we just always bought our food at the grocery and I was more into team sports than hunting and wildlife.

Now though, I wouldn't mind getting involved in hunting and I have quite a few friends/co-workers who hunt, but I don't really like venison, I'd much rather eat steak or beef. So while I could shoot a deer, I haven't ever done so and probably wouldn't since it would be more of a sport to me than a food source.

But, here in Virginia, there is definitely a need for thinning the population. There are quite a few deer in the city and once you go more than 2 miles outside the city limits in any direction they are plentiful. My sister and brother-in-law live in the county less than 10 miles away and I can't recall ever going to their house without seeing a deer. One night I pulled into their driveway and stopped counting the deer in the field next to their house when I got to 20. So I'm always amazed when I hear of people going hunting and not coming back with something, when I could drive 5 miles down the road and spot half a dozen or more on any given day.

Anyway, for me, I'm not sure if thinning the population would be a good enough reason for shooting a deer if I wasn't also going to put the meat to good use.

Pathfinder45
April 11, 2009, 01:35 PM
I make my living climbing trees and squirrels are like a kindred spirit to me; perhaps like the Indian idea of a totem spirit. I dunno. Also, when I was trying to grow cantalopes on a farm in eastern Kansas I was having a war with the rabbits that loved to chew the vines before the 'lopes ripened. I could not kill enough of them and it was making me mad. Just when it was starting to look like I would surely lose the war, I began to see itinerant coyotes in the open that I had never seen. Within a week of the first coyote sighting my rabbit problems were completely over! When I camp in the wilderness the night song of the coyotes enhances the experience. If they were killing my livestock I would kill them; but not until, as I have found them to be on my side in the past. I would never kill a horse except as an act of mercy. Of course, starving with Jedidiah Smith in the desert or with the Donner party, one makes exceptions.

protectedbyglock
April 11, 2009, 05:50 PM
Hmmm.
Interesting question. I don't think I could shoot a horse, either. Well, my mom had this one horse... I probably could have shot that SOB. He would try to scrape you off on tree limbs and everything. We usually carried a baseball bat to deter him. Stubborn as hell, he was.

Unicorns would definately get shot. I heard that their horns disappear when you shoot them, though, so then they would just look like a horse. Is the meat still magical after they die? Because I'd like to eat some if it is.

Dogs, well.. it depends on the dog. I love dogs (and have two at the moment), but if they try biting me, my fiancee, or my kid... then it's death by lead poisoning. I've had dogs all my life, and only ever had to shoot one. Not his fault at all. Sad day for me, it was just his time. Crazy strays get shot just like anything else.

Cats? Ha. Just tell me where. My mom has two, and I have all I can do to keep from snapping their necks and tossing them in the trash can every time I visit.

Giraffes? I don't think so. Never tried the meat, though. Maybe that would change my mind.

I don't really get killing bear cubs. I don't know, if you're gonna eat them, fine. If you're gonna try to brag to me about killing one, I don't want to hear it.

I used to have a thing about doves. I wouldn't kill them no matter what. I think it has something to do with my mom telling me they were "god's birds" when I was a kid. I shot a few last year, and it felt odd. They were good, though!

I had a problem with killing squirrels when I was about 10 or so. Not so much a problem with shooting them, I just didn't like finishing them off with the butt of a gun. I always would, though, and I got over it pretty quick.

Never had a problem with deer. They are a lot of food, and the dam things are everywhere. They're so stupid, too.

Somebody earlier mentioned condors. Hmmm.. That's a good one. Being endangered, no. If they were everywhere, you bet your ass I would. We already have tons of vultures. I'd shoot the vultures first.

Snakes... yes and no. Rattlesnakes/copperheads....dead. Black snakes, depends. I've seen sooo many black snakes (I mean HUGE dens where they've taken over entire houses and barns) Yes, they eat mice and other pests, but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of them. If I see like 5 black snakes together, I'll shoot a couple of them for target practice. King/milk snakes... never. Never ever. I almost smacked a guy once..... :)

FrontSight
April 11, 2009, 09:46 PM
sc928porsche: if you think anyting the moves is edible, then I'd advise you to rethink that if you ever happen to see a poison arrow dart frog & get hungry... :D

impact
April 11, 2009, 10:05 PM
Snakes! people kill snakes on sight. Snakes are good to have around. And I will no way kill a Hawk or Owl. These are just some of the animals I leve alone. I don't kill soft shell turtles or snapers.

I'm not no MR do gooder. I will kill hog and coyote on sight. and I love to do it!:)

Para Bellum
April 12, 2009, 02:15 AM
I'd need a very very good reason to kill a(nother) predator like a wolf, bear, lynx, puma or other big cat or bird of prey.

I feel they are hunters like me and do the same job. I'd only kill one of these if there'd be an environmental or security related urge.

Dragon55
April 19, 2009, 09:24 AM
However, Mr. Eatman since you didnt choose to take your personal argument to my email and decided to scold me on the forum I'll just say it like this. I hunt and enjoy it. I also recognize that biology existed before biologists, forests existed before forestry, nature existed before science.
It is fact that has been proven that essentially a squirrel could jump from tree to tree from NC to the Mississippi and never touch the ground. This is no longer possible. Is this a bad thing? I would not go so far as to qualify it as bad or good. It is what it is. Yes, man whether pre-historic, Missippian tribes, or more recent have all had an impact on nature. Ask the Sioux about the buffalo.
I would never want anyone to think I am anti hunting. My grandpa would roll over in his grave. It's just that I don't view hunting as 'managing the population'. I don't view it as a way to acquire food. I view it as a sport. Which it is.
Again, sorry about the my last post it was a little stupid. .... and now this is WAy off topic from the OP and I will bow out to those much more knowledgeable than myself about what animals they would not shoot.

lt dan
April 19, 2009, 12:14 PM
i red this thread with a lot of interest. i know a lot of dedicated local hunters that share my view on this thread.

i cant see myself hunting elephant, lion, cheetah, giraffe, leopard, rhino and a couple of other species.

the reason? simple, i have been brought up in the understanding that what you hunt you eat. that is not to say that i condemn the hunting of above mentioned animals. how can i when the revenues of 1 elephant hunt will pay the antibiotics of the total elephant population of the Kruger National Park in South-Africa for a year.

a couple of people said that they wont hunt giraffe, me nether. how ever i will concede that due to the popularity of giraffe hunting the giraffe is not a endangered animal.

i know a local game farmer that has a black rhino breeding program. (they are on the brink of extinction.) he finances this project with amongst other things leopard hunts. he often tells me the extend of the dislike he has in killing leopard. but the fact of the matter is no leopard hunt no breeding program.

in Africa if it doesnt pay it doesnt stay. i sometimes wish this was not true ,but in Africa we have the hunting fraternity to thank for the abundance of wild life.

ps. hogdogs i see you say you wont travel the globe for a hunt. any chance i can convince you other wise with a local Wart-hog hunt. free of charge

Dr. Strangelove
April 20, 2009, 03:07 AM
I've got two of the household version of the creature as pets, I never could shoot a bobcat, tiger, leopard, panther, etc. I suppose if a tiger was after one of my pet cats I would have a dilemma, but the tiger would lose in the end...

srt 10 jimbo
April 27, 2009, 11:30 PM
I got a 2 year old pet Squirral I raised from a baby(Hammy, kids named it) she just sits on my shoulder when I walk around and pretty much trusts me compleatly. I used to Squirral hunt with pellet guns and 22's. no way I could do it any more.:o

Xwrench3
May 9, 2009, 07:08 AM
i guess it would depend on the circumstances. under the right set of circumstances, there is nothing i would not kill. that is not to say that i blatently go around killing every animal i see. but if it was a life or death, or to protect my family, there is not an animal on earth that is safe. under normal circumstances, there are many animal i will not shoot. cougar, bald eagles, hawks, i could go on with this list for two pages. i am an ethical hunter, but if it comes down to survival, i will keep us alive first, and worry about the consequenses later. i would find it hard to believe that there would be serious trouble for shooting something to save a human life.

RangerHAAF
May 15, 2009, 06:39 AM
I only hunt for meat. I will not hunt lions and bears unless they move on me first. All other antelopes and ungulates are fair game.

4406v
May 15, 2009, 10:19 AM
When I was younger I would hunt and kill anything legal I had a license for.I did alot of small game hunting and would eat what I killed.I was constantly trying to learn as much as I could about deer hunting and shot my first deer at 16.As I've grown older(44) the deer hunting has become my main focus while in the woods.I have killed over 60 deer over the years and I eat all of it,I love venison and if it's legal it's going for a ride in the truck.

I killed a bear in 2000 and even though I ate every last piece of the meat I will never kill another one.It was a once in a lifetime thing I've done but don't feel the need to kill another bear.

I killed a moose in 2007 and I hope I get to experience another moose hunt in my lifetime.It is the best meat I have ever eaten.

I killed a 7x7 bull elk this past year and after the kill I felt terrible for killing such a beautifull animal.Even though that's why I was there it just made me feel "wrong" killing it.I will probably never elk hunt again and again my reason is personal.

T. O'Heir
May 16, 2009, 01:05 AM
"...Feral cats, no mercy there..." I'd be hard pressed to kill any cat. Feral or otherwise. It was hard enough having to put down a pet. Cats are the consumate animal. Domestic cats can hunt and kill then stay on your death bed for months except to eat and defecate.
In any case, Kitty that's out and about isn't necessarily feral.

hogdogs
May 16, 2009, 06:56 AM
In any case, Kitty that's out and about isn't necessarily feral.
I agree, but detrimental to native wildlife just the same...:D
Brent

Dingoboyx
May 16, 2009, 07:01 AM
P97 :D (post #2)

You nailed it absolutely spot on, mate, short, sweet & to the point exactly :D

+1 on Giraffes, elephants and 'trophy' animals.... just because you can isn't a reason to kill anything IMO :barf:

jhammer
May 16, 2009, 09:52 PM
For some reason, I could never shoot a cat or a kitten. I guess since we got our kitty I've gotten soft....:cool:

James R. Burke
May 25, 2009, 05:57 PM
We can not shoot wolfs in Michigan. No season on them, if we could I think a bunch or us would bring them back to where they were at about thirty years ago here. Coyote no problem. Game animals to eat during legal season no problem. Just to kill anything no.