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View Full Version : Why I carry at home, and why I wish my wife would........


rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 11:58 AM
I was talking with one of my employees this week who is a volunteer firefighter. His Assistant Chief's wife was home alone earlier in the week when a man wearing a mask and gloves broke into their back door. She managed to get her hands on a baseball bat and beat him badly enough that he ran away. This was Tuesday or Wednesday I believe.

Fast forward to Friday. The same fellow (to believe otherwise is stretching the odds) came back and again gained entry to the house while she was home alone. She was stabbed twice in the abdomen. Last I heard yesterday she was in stable condition. No major organ damage. No word on whether there was any further assault beyond the stab wounds.

Speculation among the officers responding was that the first attack was an attempted sexual assault and the second was revenge for the beating she gave him the first go round.

Both of these attacks happened in broad daylight. Friday's was at around 9-9:30 am. This happened in rural Orange Co. NC. Not a high crime area to be sure.

These incidents obviously have me wondering what else I can do to "harden the target" at my house. My wife had surgery a couple weeks ago and will be out of work and home alone during the day for another two weeks. Beyond that there are the odd days where she's off and I'm not, though we try to coordinate our vacation days. 2-3 times a year I'm away on business over night for 1-2 nights at a stretch. She often takes the kids and stays with her parents when I'm away though.

Currently....

Deadbolts......check (and they stay locked during the day too, if I'm not home)
Monitored Alarm............check (yes my wife keeps it armed during the day if she's home and I'm not)
Exterior lights.....check (high output flourescents at opposite corners of the house and by both doors, dusk til dawn sensors/always on at night. Motionactivated flood at corner by driveway. LED Solar powered landscape lighting scattered about the property that minimizes dark spots in shrubbery/trees, etc.)

What else am I missing structurally?

We don't presently have a dog. Lost both of ours a couple years ago to old age. Haven't been quite ready to take on the responsibility of a puppy lately.


Beyond the prevention measures, my wife knows how to use the various firearms in the house (except for the AR-15 which we've not really worked on yet). She does not carry a handgun either in the home or while out. She has no interest in getting her own carry permit, but is very glad that I have mine and carry regularly. My problem with this, though is that I cannot always be there.

When I'm away I keep a Mossberg 500 with tube full of managed recoil 00 buckshot and unchambered outside of the safe for her use if necessary. It's kept in the closet, with one of those child proof doorknob covers keeping the door closed and the little ones away from it. Beyond that, there's the slide release and safety to manipulate to make it ready to go boom. It's enough of a safety layer that I'm comfortable with it now with where my kids are, may not be the case in the next few years. Beyond that we're doing the obvious safety training with the kids.

Any advice on how to get my wife to come around on the carry issue? Pax, I'd like your input here in particular, please?

LordJohnWarfen
March 14, 2009, 02:17 PM
Rantingredneck,

I share your concerns. My thoughts are as follows:

Deadbolts......Excellent

Monitored Alarm….Good but have heard response time can be somewhat problematic. Do you have signs stating your home is alarmed and I would make sure it includes an exterior siren.

Exterior lights….understood to be a pretty effective deterrent if a burglar is looking at one house over another.

Dog….best alarm / deterrent, preferable a loud guard dog. Gives you time to take action, call 911, hold up till help arrives. I concur on the puppy issue, plus it does nothing in the immediate. I would suggest contacting one of the breed specific rescue groups. You can get a grown dog that someone had to give up. As to breed, I’d leave that to experts, I have a 125 pound lab, he can be aggressive but best thing is he raises heck if anyone comes near the house. We have actually never heard our door bell in 6 years.

Mossberg 500…..I’d suggest a safe or at least an easy access lock box for the shells. Kids are resourceful and if and when you have a sitter I’d be real nervous of a loaded gun secured with only the kid door knob. Might be some liability issues as well, although I am not an expert on that.

Also, neighbors are an excellent resource, if they are close enough, get to know them, a nosey / watchful neighbor is priceless.

In the end, sounds like the Mrs. is comfortable with firearms, the dog might give you the peace of mind you seek.

Hope my amateur ramblings are of some help.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 02:24 PM
if and when you have a sitter I’d be real nervous of a loaded gun secured with only the kid door knob

No worries there. We don't do sitters. My mother in law lives 3 miles away and sister in law lives 1.5 miles away. We need childcare we have drop-in options ready at hand.

Thanks for your suggestions, though. Will look into breed specific rescue groups.

fisherman66
March 14, 2009, 02:33 PM
We don't presently have a dog. Lost both of ours a couple years ago to old age. Haven't been quite ready to take on the responsibility of a puppy lately.

You don't have to go with a puppy, although I have always preferred that route personally. Many shelters are overflooded with dogs due in part with the economic "downturn" and people moving out of houses and into apartments with strict rules or high deposits on pets. Odd are you could find a very family friendly, already house trained dog that would act as a deterrent, alarm and possibly even a defender. Crate training is very easy for juvenile though adult dogs. I couldn't imagine what it would be like without a dog or two around even though I doubt they would attack. They would definitely alert.

chris in va
March 14, 2009, 03:01 PM
Deadbolts......check (and they stay locked during the day too, if I'm not home

Deadbolts are surprisingly flimsy. The weak point is the door frame, easily kicked in. You may want to reinforce that area and get a door brace bar.

This should give her decent time to get to the shotgun or whatever she feels comfortable using for SD.

You may want to enlighten her to the police response times. Point out a similar 911 time (usually at least 5 minutes), sit down and have her count out the minutes until the 'cops' show up. It's a real eye opener.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 03:14 PM
You may want to reinforce that area

Yep, did that when I installed 'em. It'll take a bit of effort to gain entry for sure.

We live out in the country so it's Sheriff's Dept response times. Which of course is dependent on where the closest deputy is when the call goes out. 13 miles outside of town.

There is a substation in a neighboring community about 5 miles away though.

She has no illusions about response times, she's just stubborn about the carry thing :rolleyes: (among other things :D).

Keltyke
March 14, 2009, 03:19 PM
Deadbolts......check (and they stay locked during the day too, if I'm not home)
As mentioned, the weakness here is the frame. Reinforce the frame and use at least 3" screws to drive into the 2 x 4 behind the molding. Mount a second deadbolt high up, maybe at head level. It's harder to kick a deadbolt that high up.

Monitored Alarm............check (yes my wife keeps it armed during the day if she's home and I'm not)
WITH 2-3 keypads and panic buttons on all of them. You can also get a personal panic button worn around the neck. We have CPI, and their response to an accidental opening violation is about 5-10 seconds. The whole house microphone/speaker allows them to communicate with the homeowner wherever they are, and to listen in on what's going down.

Exterior lights.....
The more, the better. You need a couple of switches in easily accessible spots that don't endanger your wife. A switch beside the back door does no good. A switch at the top of the stairs is great. Cut back the shrubbery around the doors. Yea, makes the house look a little sparse, but it gets rid of the "close to an entrance" hiding places.

A tape recording of a savage dog barking will work - once.

Put that shotgun out in the open, too high for the kids to reach and chamber a round. Put the safety on. When under attack, seconds count, and you don't want your wife fiddling with child-proof doorknobs and racking a round.

Try to get her to wear an empty holster for a few days. Once she sees how comfortable a GOOD rig can be, she might come around to toting one full time.

LordJohnWarfen
March 14, 2009, 03:27 PM
I have convinced my wife to carry the car key fob, she can set off the car alarm in the event of any problems. Guaranteed to have the neighbors at their windows.

cubsin2079
March 14, 2009, 03:28 PM
Get a rescue dog!!!!! My best friend was found at the Austin German Shepherd Rescue. A big loud dog is always intimidating for a BG. I know this from experience. Months ago I was working on my Jeep in the garage with the door open. The dog is always by my side. I went in for 2 minutes to get a drink and when the dog and I came back there was a guy in the garage checking out my tools. Boy if you could have seen his eyes when he saw the dog come out the door after me. That is engrained in my head. I will never forget it. I grabbed the dog and told him I would let him go if he moved. He backed out slowly and took of down the street. This was the reason for my first gun purchase and for me getting my CHL. Turns out that same guy tried the same thing in the next neighborhood a week later but pulled a gun on a guy and his neighbor who both had CHLs. Well it was a bb gun and he damn near got killed. His name was Christopher Montemayor and he was charged only with making a terroristic threat. I wish I wouldve let my dog tear him up!! A GSD is your best friend and the most loyal you will ever have. Also great with kids!!!!

ckd
March 14, 2009, 03:29 PM
Making your house less desirable as your neighbors is a big factor.

You have a good start, make sure that shurbs etc., around the first floor are low a prevent hiding.

Signage is effective and cheap - criminals hate dogs. Buy a beware of dog sign even without one and a bullet decorated target near the entry doors cuts down on solicitors too:)

Cheap simple door wedges (with alarms for under $20/pair at Sportsmansguide.com) are cheap and very effect delays and can be brought along when traveling.

A good can of wasp/hornet spray has good range and is very effective.

Now getting your wife to shoot and carry is a whole seperate and unique challenge that often requires a direct threat to motivate most. People that call it paranoid to be prepared for violence probably wear seat belts and have a first aid kit and fire extinguisher -same logic, but harder to sell. Start all new shooters with a 22lr and they won't be so adverse.

Long guns as a primary is generally not logical in a typical household because it is rarely in arms reach and is difficult to manuver for most, and recoil is often an issue with a SG.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 03:31 PM
Yeah, I hate shrubbery. We completely did away with the boxwoods around the house a few years ago. They were planted when the house was built. I never liked 'em. A pain to maintain them and surprisingly hard to kill. Resorted to ripping them out of the ground with my Dodge 4x4 and a tow strap. I'm sure the neighbors got it on video and filed it under "you might be a redneck if" :D.

We do have rosebushes planted under the windows, but they are not of the size that you could hide behind. Just big enough to aggravate the hell out of someone trying to crawl in the windows. Our windows are also double pane with metal bars between the panes. You'd actually have to raise the window to get in through it, not just break through. Good window locks and wireless contact sensors for the alarm system.

and chamber a round.

I am a firm opponent of storing chambered shotguns inside the home for 1 simple reason. Shotgun safeties (Mossberg, Remington, doesn't matter) do not render them drop safe. It only blocks the trigger, not the hammer or sear. Combine that with "up high" and it's setting up for a potential tragedy. As it is chambering a round quickly is a software issue that we've worked on. She's more comfortable with the Mossberg setup which is why it stays out when I'm not here. I like Remington's myself, but I've used both enough that they are second nature.

The door knob spinner deals are fairly easy for us as well. We have them on the exterior doors to keep our son from exiting without supervision.

mav88
March 14, 2009, 05:52 PM
have a sitdown/talk with her on a serious level..and tell her that by carrying a handgun on her while home, itll be the best for your children's safety as well as hers. Also, show her more crimes happening in the area..as some type of proof that everything is not always safe as most assume.

Brian Pfleuger
March 14, 2009, 06:02 PM
Do you have the signs up indicating that you have an alarm system?

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 06:03 PM
Yep.

Signs by the walk leading from driveway to front door. Sign on front door. Sign on back door. Sign on front livingroom and back livingroom windows.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 06:14 PM
and recoil is often an issue with a SG.


Let me be clear. My wife is comfortable and competent with a shotgun. She has fired Mossberg 500's and 835's (mine and her dad's) quite a bit over the years. She has even fired 3 1/2" magnum 00 buckshot without complaint.

That being said I keep managed recoil rounds in the gun for faster followup and better patterning. The gun liking that particular load has as much to do with the choice as recoil management.

She was raised around rifles and shotguns as her dad is a lifelong hunter. Never had a handgun growing up in the house though (for that matter neither did I, got my first one when I was 21 and in college). Her comfort level is with the shotgun.

Though I would prefer she carry a handgun both at home and while out, it just ain't happening yet. We've had the talks, she knows the statistics. Repeating it repeatedly hasn't changed anything. The closest she came was a couple years ago a friend of hers was going to take the concealed carry course and the two of them were talking about doing it together. They procrastinated. Her friend took another job in another city and they've drifted apart. Seems like a missed opportunity.

Brian Pfleuger
March 14, 2009, 06:19 PM
Have you considered those door bars that wedge under the handle down to the floor? Easy to use and add just that much more deterrent. Are your doors steel?

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 06:29 PM
Have you considered those door bars that wedge under the handle down to the floor?

I've considered them but that's about as far as I've gotten with that. May take another look at them as I've seen several people recommend them here.
Any particular model anyone's using on those?

Are your doors steel?

Front door is steel, back door is steel, but with a window going almost the entire length. It is double pane glass with metal bars between though (same as the windows). The deadbolts on both front and back doors are keyed on both sides. Breaking out the glass doesn't get you access to the house unless you breakthrough the bars and both panes and come all the way through. Gonna hurt and gonna be noisy/time consuming. We also have a full lenght blind on that door so to the person coming in it's a big mystery what they'll find on the inside. Might be a Mossberg 500 :eek:.

JohnRaven
March 14, 2009, 07:00 PM
Someone may have mentioned it already and I missed it...

As for dead-bolts... Great! A crappy deadbolt is better than no deadbolt.

However, if you want the toughest deadbolt in the world....

THIS is what you need!

http://www.mul-t-lockusa.com/productlist.asp?catid=22



On the bolt itself there are ball bearings... Once the bolt is fully extended and goes into the strike, the ball bearings stick out on either side and the bolt becomes connected to the strike.



http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9638/img1517r.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1517r.jpg)

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8630/img1518o.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1518o.jpg)

My father and I are Mul-T-Lock dealers and we have sold TONS of these deadbolts... They are the toughest deadbolts we have ever encountered.

We have a customer that owns a local car wash that had us install one of these deadbolts on the room that holds the change machine.

Before this deadbolt had been installed, the coin room had been broken into.


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/952/img0720x.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0720x.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3514/img0721f.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0721f.jpg)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3351/img0722c.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0722c.jpg)

Between the frame, the door and the lock itself my dad counted about 30 strikes.

Since the above pictures, another break-in has been attempted without success. :cool:

NOTE: This lock is still fully functional.

djohn
March 14, 2009, 07:22 PM
I wouldn't chance an unlocked gun in a closet with ammo in it with children around.Never under estamate the intelligence of a child.My oldest son just turned ten and some of my firearms have a lot of tention to rack the slide and just for an experiment I had Him try to rack one of them unloaded of course and he racked it as well as my self and he is a skinny little thing.Another experiment was to have Him try to load the mag with 9mm with out showing Him,it took him about 15 seconds to figure it out and he was loading the mag.He even counted the holes on the mag and told me close to what it holds in the mag,he was off by one or two rounds.

I would serious have a sitdown with her and stress the safety of the children and how much safer it would be for her as well with something of immediate access to her.Even a nice pocket piece would better then running to the closet for a shoot gun that takes time to get and bring to a pointable position.just my 02 anyways.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 10:17 PM
It's enough of a safety layer that I'm comfortable with it now with where my kids are, may not be the case in the next few years. Beyond that we're doing the obvious safety training with the kids

This is where we are and I'm comfortable with it FOR NOW. Constantly reevaluating, but I'm comfortable with the various layers of safety I have built into this particular system.


We've had the talks, she knows the statistics. Repeating it repeatedly hasn't changed anything.

This is still true and apparently bears repeating..........

Again, the last thing my wife needs from me is a lecture on this. I'm hoping Pax will weigh in on this (or some of our other female members). Valued perspective that I feel I need on this.

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 10:20 PM
I also ran out to Lowe's a few minutes ago and picked up two of these:

http://www.google.com/products?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS266US266&q=Masterlock+265DCCSEN&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=sXO8SZ-gENbgtgfBnsT4Cw&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

Seem to be sturdy units and simple to use.

LeopardCurDog
March 14, 2009, 10:26 PM
it sounds like no amount of talking will convince her that it would be best for her to arm herself with a handgun. she knows the possibilities and still refuses. nothing you can do about it. i hear this story alot over time and have come to the conclusion that most women would rather be raped and beaten then defend themselves. i can't understand it, but that seems to be the case.

pax
March 14, 2009, 11:08 PM
RR ~

Why won't she? What's she say when you ask her about it?

pax

rantingredneck
March 14, 2009, 11:26 PM
She never really gives me an answer. Often it's just a roll of the eyes or "I don't want to talk about this". I don't push, because she doesn't respond well to pushing.

She has told me (years ago) that she didn't like handguns. She hasn't directly said that in near 10 years though. Since then, she has shot with me at the range, not alot, not enough by my standards, but she has made an effort. Handguns, shotguns, and rimfire rifles. It takes a lot to get her to go and she doesn't go often. She knows how the various firearms here function (Ruger P-series autos and revolvers when it comes to handguns). We've worked on malfunction drills with the autos, but when it comes to handguns, she's more comfortable with the point and click nature of revolvers. That does not translate into her being comfortable enough to have a revolver on her or accessible when I'm away. The shotgun she's comfortable with.

I actually made the mistake of buying her a handgun about 5 years ago. She never took the class/got her permit or even carried it in her car. It stayed locked up in the safe until we sold it about 2 years ago.

Basically I'd like her to be more interested but I don't know how to get here there. I don't worry so much about her not knowing what to do, it's more of a worry about her being caught in a situation either at home or while out with nothing readily at hand.

As another measure, I'm considering adding a quick access safe to the mix and putting a GP100 loaded with .38+P's in it.

pax
March 15, 2009, 12:26 PM
Okay. Then I'll give you my pretty-much-standard advice.

1) Stop lobbying. She's an adult & can make her own choices. Just because they aren't the choices you or I would make doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to make those choices for herself. It's frustrating, it's scary, it might even be heartbreaking ... but it is what it is. She's a grownup and she gets to choose how, when and whether she wants to protect herself.

2) Quit preaching about self defense. Ask questions instead. (Again, don't lobby! Questions get asked only when the subject comes up naturally, such as when talking about your co-worker as you're telling her about your day.) Ask stuff like, "... what would you do?" and "... what do you think?" and "... how would you respond if?" And then shut up. Don't ever, ever, ever answer those questions yourself unless and until she asks you; if she does ask you, say something vague and change the subject. Ask the questions, listen to her answers, move on. Don't provide the answers, because the goal here isn't about answers. The goal is simply to get the questions into her mind. If you answer those questions, she'll struggle against your answers instead of struggling with the questions. Ask the questions, move on. Don't preach, don't give the answers, don't argue.

3) When you invite her to the range, and she agrees to go, make it fun. Don't talk about self defense while you're at the range. Talk about how much fun it is. Shoot bull's eye targets. Or (depending on your wife's sense of humor) invading zombie targets. Or reactives like Necco wafers or Saltine crackers or jugs of water. Whatever seems most fun to you and to her. Don't let it be grim or negative. The goal is to get her as much practice as you possibly can, since she apparently doesn't mind shooting but has an aversion to self-defense talk. Better to let her learn in a fun playing-a-game atmosphere rather than preventing her from learning because she doesn't want to deal with self-defense topics.

Also, in terms of making it fun, if you can find another couple who are willing to visit the range with you, that's your best bet for an enthusiastic happy response from her. There really is something magic about getting other women to shoot alongside you, when you're new and otherwise reluctant. (Nobody ever outgrows peer pressure. ;) )

4) Continue to do what you do. Carry! Don't let her choices affect yours. Don't hide it, either. There will probably come a time when she is grateful you are there & prepared (not necessarily because something happened, but because something could have happened, or just because she realizes she feels "safe" with you). But it's quite likely that she won't be able to admit it aloud even if she feels like that. So don't get discouraged and don't hide what you do from her. Just matter-of-factly do it.

5) Since she does know how to shoot, do have a gun accessible at home for her. Make sure she knows where it is and how to get it, and then shut up about it. Don't expect her to use it, though. Again, she's an adult & gets to make her own choices, and you really really really really want to avoid pushing her (when someone pushes, the natural human inclination is to dig your heels in). So make it available but otherwise keep mum about it. Respect her right to make her own choices.

If she ever, even once, expresses concern about how safe you are with a firearm, ask her if she'd be willing to take a safety class with you, and follow through if the answer is lukewarm or better. Emphasize that you enjoy her company and it would be something fun you could do together. Meeting other couples and other women at the range really does help. If you play your cards right here, she'll think the class was her own idea, and be charmed that you took her concerns so seriously -- a win all the way around...

Hope some of that helps. Meanwhile of course, beef up security around your house, lights & locks etc. Be sure everyone in your home knows that the locks need to be used even during the day, not to answer the door without looking through the peephole, and so on. None of the passive security measures really help much if they're not used.

pax

justinicus
March 15, 2009, 02:20 PM
My ex was something like that. More communicative about it, though. It just boiled down to the fact that she was afraid of guns. Similar to a previous post, she would rather be victimized (though not raped/beaten) than defend herself. I was able to get her to carry pepper spray, but beyond that, she truly believed she could not shoot another person, no matter what. I believe she would use pepper spray against a rapist, but while she wouldn't admit it, she was afraid of that too.

Being mugged at knife point didn't change her perspective at all. I got her to shoot my 1911 a couple times, and she was actually quite a good shot. No problem at all hitting the bulls-eye at 5yds, from her very first shot on. But she would NEVER let me load more than one round in the mag. The idea of confronting her fear and taking responsibility for her own safety was absurd. That's what we pay the police for, she believed. Some people truly are sheep, I guess.

-Justin

pax
March 15, 2009, 02:38 PM
The idea of confronting her fear ...

Yeah, that one strikes a chord.

One woman I know (close relative) is terrified of firearms, and has been ever since she & her boyfriend were mugged 15 years ago. She's steadfastly refused to face that fear, never has talked about it. She'll talk about everything else in the entire world, but that fear and that subject are entirely off limits. I've watched over the years as her fear has gotten bigger and bigger and more powerful, like a smoldering cigarette stuck under a mattress that eventually flames into a huge out of control conflagration that burns down an entire neighborhood. It's ... there are no words to describe how sad it is to watch, or how frustrating it is to see it happening while being powerless to prevent it. All my words, all anyone's words, are meaningless against her fear. If she'd confronted it early, before it started to grow ... but she didn't. She piled fuel on top of it, and thought she was hiding it, when all she was doing was setting the stage for it to take over her life.

She broke her ankle last year, leaping wildly out of bed in the throes of a nightmare. She blames the gun that was in her dream...

:(

pax

Agent_of_Empire
March 15, 2009, 02:58 PM
Your wife seems to be comfortable around firearms but I think a bigger issue here is the reason to have her carry a weapon around the house.

There is a huge psychological step that you have to take before you can shoot another human being - you can't coerce her to take that step it is something she will become comfortable with (or accept). Do you really want her to point a loaded weapon at someone, **** him off, and not have the ability to pull the trigger?

My wife will throw things at an attacker, but the reality of a gun is that it is a tool used for killing. You aren't going to aim at a leg in the heat of a moment, you put rounds center mass. You kill people. My wife is not comfortable with that.

I am writing from Iraq now, so if she has a problem I just have enough faith that our deterrents will hold but you just accept some risk.

And there honestly isn't a door that will hold a determined attacker. Deter, yes. I also assume you have windows though... we can play out los of outlandish scenarios... Make yourself a hard target, understand how to defend yourself, accept risk that you choose not to mitigate.

rantingredneck
March 15, 2009, 03:56 PM
Good stuff as always Pax.

I totally agree with this and this is pretty much where I am and have been for about a year or so. I stopped the gentle prodding to take the CC course. She really dug her heels in on that one. I was hoping that she and her friend would take the course together but that's not likely any longer.

I'll keep plodding along and beefing up the passive defenses. She went with me to Lowe's last night to pick up the bracebars. She thought it was a good idea and even mentioned that they'd be handy to take along for travel/hotels and such.

She's cool with me carrying, and actually feels safer (so she says) for the fact that I do. And I do carry EVERYWHERE that it's legal to do so. To the point of finding a postoffice with on street parking nearby and parking across the street from my daughter's school (at my church) so as not to have to leave it at home.

I looked at some additional lighting options last night too and will be upgrading/installing some new stuff soon. She is very good about keeping deadbolts locked and the flip latches we have up high on the door (forgot to mention those in the OP). Hopefully she'll use the brace bars regularly when I'm not home too. We've only had the alarm system for a few months, but she's been religious about keeping the perimeter sensors alarmed when we are home.

Thanks for everyone's input, and particular thanks to Pax.

Any additional passive security layers anyone can think of, throw them out there. Can't hurt to have too many layers. (Moats, alligators, etc.) Just kidding there of course............maybe.......:D.

ttman
March 16, 2009, 01:36 PM
dead bolts don't really do anything. the average home has wood frames around the doors. a swift drop kick will rip the door from the frame.

dabigguns357
March 16, 2009, 03:10 PM
My home security goes like this.
1/Cars always locked with alarms on them now.
2/front porch light on at all times
3/solid wood door,deadbolt's,and chain lock at the top so the kids don't get out.
4/ 6 night vision security camera's around my house with 2 of the 6 facing the either the cars or front porch.Every tv can be flipped over to video to see whats going on out side from any angle.
5/shotguns'loaded by the bed
6/I have a shogun belt with 25 rounds of 12 gauge on it along with my primary handgun,that i keep strapped around my waist at all times.
7/ my cell phone also clipped to my belt oh and a blue tooth head set on as well(keeps the hands free).
8 security alarm as well.

armsmaster270
March 16, 2009, 03:25 PM
As far as keeping a round in the chamber not a good idea even cops normally don't do it. First of all there is the safety issue and second you can possibly weaken the hammer spring by keeping it under full tension all the time. keep it safety off, hammer down, that way its easy to chamber a round and she does not have to fumble for the safety.

Cowart
March 16, 2009, 03:26 PM
<<What else am I missing structurally?>>

It may be too late now, but keep in mind that even a sturdy door can be kicked in. It's better to hang the door so that it opens outwards. It's pretty hard to kick a door out rather than in.

<<She has no interest in getting her own carry permit>>

She probably would not need one to carry in the house.

rantingredneck
March 16, 2009, 04:01 PM
She probably would not need one to carry in the house.

She wouldn't but she has no interest in carrying in the house either. I'd like for her to get her permit for carry outside the home, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.

jgcoastie
March 19, 2009, 03:52 AM
It may be too late now, but keep in mind that even a sturdy door can be kicked in. It's better to hang the door so that it opens outwards. It's pretty hard to kick a door out rather than in.

Bad idea... What happens when the perps take the hinges off the outside of the door, since it would open outward?

A much better bet would be to use a heavy solid wood core, or metal core door with at least one really strong deadbolt. Replace the wood door frame with metal studs. They ain't cheap, but then again neither is a casket.

scottaschultz
March 19, 2009, 12:46 PM
My wife doesn't carry a gun and I am completely OK with that.

One of the first things I learned about firearms was: NEVER POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY. (or something like that)

That being said, I think that some people do not use this simple rule when considering using a weapon for defensive purposes. The bottom line is that if you ever need to draw your weapon on another human being, even if that human being wishes to do you harm, you should not do so unless you are prepared to kill that person.

If you are hoping that a stern verbal warning while displaying your weapon will be enough to scare that aggressor, it won't.

If you are hoping that a stern verbal warning plus the sound of a hammer being cocked will be enough to scare that aggressor, it won't.

If you think your marksmanship skills are good enough to fire a wounding shot that will only subdue the aggressor without killing them, especially under extreme stress, they aren't.

I know this sounds like a "Well, duh!" comment, but DEAD IS FOREVER! Not everyone has the psychological makeup or stomach for killing another human being, regardless of the circumstances. Rest assured, when you kill another human being, even with the legal issues aside, your life will change forever.

The first thing you need to determine before insisting your loved one use a lethal weapon for self defense is to find out where her head is at when it comes to the issue of ending a human life by her own actions.

Whew!
Scott

bababooey32
March 19, 2009, 02:13 PM
I'm a newb here, this is my first post...I am in the same boat as redneck. My wife is not interested in having guns in the house and won't engage when I bring it up. You suggested:

Stop Lobbying.......She's a grownup and she gets to choose how, when and whether she wants to protect herself.

This is not entirely the case when she is responsible (by virtue of being a stay-at-home mom) for the safety and protection of OUR children. Her strong-headed refusal to acknowledge her powerlessness in the event of an incident like the one described imacts OUR children as much (or more) than just her.

This doesn't make it any easier to convionce her, but I think it is my responsibility to lobby for the protection of OUR children, even if it is annoying to her.

scottaschultz
March 19, 2009, 02:32 PM
Bababooey32 (and everyone else),

Using lethal force to subdue an aggressor should be (IMHO) the LAST line of defense. Sure, your wife is responsible for the safety of your children, but as has been mentioned, what steps have you taken to secure your home to keep an aggressor out in the first place?

Have you even asked your wife if she could, with a clear conscience, kill another human being?

Have you given any thought to the possibility that in a moment of extreme stress during an armed attack, she accidentally kills one of your children? The aggressor may not always cooperate by giving her a clear unobstructed shot. She will have a fraction of a second to make her choice. This is why LEO's train for this over and over and over... and still they sometimes get it wrong.

All I ask is that you think long and hard before putting a lethal weapon in the hands of an amateur.

Scott

MDCREEKMORE
March 19, 2009, 03:01 PM
Just because you are home doesn't mean you are safe from attack. As the economy continues to worsen expect crimes such as home invasion to rise in a like manner. I live out in the "boonies" and while I don't carry a weapon on my person at all times I do keep one nearby just in case.

ZeSpectre
March 19, 2009, 03:16 PM
Any advice on how to get my wife to come around on the carry issue?

Sometimes you can't. In that case you need to have a good "plan B" (and "C" and even "D").

My wife agreed to learn the basics of firearms safety and we practice them regularly. She also comes (once in a blue moon) to the range with me and is a moderately decent shot (especially considering how infrequently she trains)
BUT
She believes that she could not shoot another human being.

Well, I've had to bow to reality and come up with some alternatives because she is strong in her belief and there's no point in me badgering her into an option she won't use.

Just because you are home doesn't mean you are safe from attack.
Yeah, I recently had a non-event (http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=406819&highlight=mrrj) that almost gave me a frikin heart attack before I learned what was really going on.

pax
March 19, 2009, 03:24 PM
bababooey ~

Okay, now turn it around: SHE has every bit as much right to decide how HER children are raised and protected as YOU do. That's the way it works ... and there you are back at square one.

If a man makes odious on the subject, then on the day his wife realizes she's tired of being lectured as if she were a child, she'll find herself a more pleasant companion. And when she leaves, the man loses almost all ability to protect his children anyway, because they'll spend most of their time somewhere else, under someone else's roof, learning someone else's values.

That's the reality.

Flies, honey, vinegar.

So if it's really important to you, stop lobbying. Don't give her a chance to dig her heels in. Do give her an opportunity to do her own thinking, ask her own questions, and come to her own conclusions, in an atmosphere where it doesn't cost her ego anything to change her mind.

pax

bababooey32
March 19, 2009, 03:36 PM
Have you even asked your wife if she could, with a clear conscience, kill another human being?

My wife and I have talked about defending our children in general terms. neither of us are violent people, but we both agree that in defending each other or the kids we would have no problem dipatching with a BG(s). I don't think that's the hang-up. I think her hang up has to do with being unfamilar with guns (as I am as well) and never having spent time around them. As is mentioned often here, that "mystique" or aura of the unknown creates a bit of fear. I think if we can get them past that, we can successfully encourage them to defned themselves.

...what steps have you taken to secure your home to keep an aggressor out in the first place?

I believe our home is quite secure. There's only 2 entrances to the home on the ground floor. One is a solid metal door the other is a solid-core doior, both deadboltyed and alarmed. All windows are alarmed and off the ground (10ft or more). Ample outdoor lighting. gated community. Neighborhood watch. Add common-sense behavior and awareness (sometimes she aggravates me with her paranoia), and I feel we are in good shape. I bet if someone tried to break in, they would fail and/or be scared off by alarm. I am not, however, willing to bet my life on it, so I chose to bring in one last line of defense.....

Have you given any thought to the possibility that in a moment of extreme stress during an armed attack, she accidentally kills one of your children?

No...but there are an infinite number of potentails and "possibilities" that I don't give much thought too. I could stumle and trip and the BG could close on me....I could shoot and miss and hit the stove and cause a fire. I could.............The reality is that there are far more dangers to my children than me or my wife accidentaly shooting them. More kids are run over by their parents then are accidentalyy shot by them. But we still both drive.

All I ask is that you think long and hard before putting a lethal weapon in the hands of an amateur.

Most of us are amateurs. I know LEOs and military patrol these boards, but unless you're being paid to shoot or carry, you're an amateur. Why do you assume that I am taking this lightly? It is a serious decision that has serious implications. I am in the process of learning to safely operate a firearm before I purchase one, what makes you think we wouldn't do the same for my wife. Someone put a firearm in YOUR hand for the first time once too.

rantingredneck
March 19, 2009, 03:36 PM
My wife and I had an interesting conversation Tuesday evening.

She asked, "How's Joe's friend's wife?" (the lady who was stabbed).

I said, "Last I heard doing well but I forgot to ask Joe about any updates today".

She said, "You keep that shotgun out for me in the closet, Do you keep any other guns out?"

Me, "No, I don't leave any handguns out because of the kids. Even putting them up on a high shelf isn't a good solution. I could get a quick access safe and put a revolver in it, maybe."

She said, "how much do those cost?"

Me, "Not much"

Her, "Where would you put it?"

Me, "I don't know, maybe in a closet or something. Somewhere out of plain sight"

Her, "Put it behind that door (pointing at our bedroom door)"

Needless to say there will be one behind that door ASAP.

America's1stFreedom
March 19, 2009, 05:17 PM
Withoutout nagging, keep on her about carrying. lol

Having weapons locked up does nothing for your/her protection.

Training children is a MUST!!! I was raised with loaded firearms throughout the house and was shooting since 4 or 5 years old. I was taught from a very early age that they are not toys. They can be dangerous, etc. The standing rule that was drilled into my younger brother and I was..."if you want to see one you ALWAYS ask me(my dad) and you can see it any time". More than once I woke my dad at 3am and asked to see one. He'd tell me to hold on a minute and then got up and asked which one I wanted. We were also drilled on safety. Muzzle awareness, etc. "The most dangerous firearm is the one that's not loaded!!!" Teach your children!


I'm kinda new around here and don't know if this made the rounds here...

...lock bumping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRtSikCqWIg


I can't vouch for this. Probably best to consult a pro.
...how to stop lock bumping without changing locks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGX6jyyIkPk&feature=related

pax
March 19, 2009, 06:52 PM
rr ~

Excellent! :)

pax

MothersLilHelper
March 19, 2009, 10:29 PM
Pax, seriously, you need to do the world a favor and get a talk show host gig on prime time. You're awesome.

My story uses much of Pax's 'pretty-much-standard advice'.

My wife/best friend/partner in crime didn't much like guns a few years ago--to the point of "Guns kill people: why do you even want one?" She's pretty good with them now--because I kept asking her "Why do you think that?" when she objected to me doing a CCW class, hunting, etc. And then I shut the hell up and listened to her answer. More often than not, I responded with "Honey, I love you very much and I hate to sound like a two year old, but why do you think this other thing that follows?" And if she started getting heated, I'd say "Honey, I love you very much and I'm so psyched to be talking about this with you but I don't want you to be mad at me. Can we table this, or can you help me understand why you're mad? Let's go for a walk together and get some ice cream." And I only said "Why do you think that?" when she brought it up.

Moral thinking is painful for everybody but a great way to grow a marriage, especially if you're not committed to being right. Our minister told us "You can choose if you'd rather be married or right," and I think it is great advice.

My wonderful wife still doesn't want a carry permit. She's taken some handgun classes and has been to the range with me plenty of times. She shoots as much as she wants (or not at all) on her terms as she wants. She taught my little sister how to shoot--I started sis with a big, heavy .45 with the saying that "Big calibers are for little girls!" and the nice slow push of the .45 is comfier for many than the snap of a .380. Sis was shaking like a leaf and Mrs. MLH made shooting a really fun game for her. (For would-be objectors, sister still greatly prefers .45 to so-called 'lady calibers.') She also called me 'jerky boy' for a week when I was jerking the trigger on a new handgun.

Mrs. MLH loves taking me to the woodshed on sporting clays and beating me like a dog, and no longer even thinks "paranoid reactionary" when she sees me carrying around the house. She just thinks "he's different from me and I love him" and I think it right back at her flipped around.

But I didn't preach or dictate or plead: three very male approaches. I just asked questions. Same deal: when she invites me to change my mind on something, it's an invitation and a discussion. We've got two weapons where she can reach them in the house, she knows the manuals for them both (her doing, not mine) and her shots go where they're aimed.

Mrs. MLH has asked for a refresher course at an outdoor range with clean-range ammo (breastfeeding) and asked me the other day "Do you think I'd be OK with myself if I shot a deer?" and she left a browser open to Gunsite's page....present for me? Present for her? Oh, how the times do change...but I can't bring it up. Sheer torture. No chance she did it accidentally. I think she's actually training me to buy her jewelry, but we'll be married another 50 years at least--I'll figure her out eventually. Maybe. God, I love that woman.

Anyway. My two cents.

This should be on a wallet card for men:
Okay, now turn it around: SHE has every bit as much right to decide how HER children are raised and protected as YOU do. That's the way it works ... and there you are back at square one.

If a man makes odious on the subject, then on the day his wife realizes she's tired of being lectured as if she were a child, she'll find herself a more pleasant companion. And when she leaves, the man loses almost all ability to protect his children anyway, because they'll spend most of their time somewhere else, under someone else's roof, learning someone else's values.

curt.45
March 19, 2009, 10:53 PM
I think I posted this before.

when I was married I had a gun hidden in the house for my wife if she needed it.

one night a bunch of us (her sister and brother in law, they carried 24/7) were talking about things and she said if she was ever attcked she wouldnt shoot she would just show the gun and hope that stoped them, the room got quite for a few minutes.

later that night after everyone left I locked up that gun, and explained to her it wasn't for show and I didnt want to come home and find my wife shot dead by my own gun.

I also began to think she might use it on herself (but thats a whole nother story)

bababooey32
March 20, 2009, 08:11 AM
Okay, now turn it around: SHE has every bit as much right to decide how HER children are raised and protected as YOU do. That's the way it works ... and there you are back at square one.

You are absoultely right. However, your solution to this is that we both silence our opinion on how to raise and protect the children, whereas I say we both have a right to advocate for our position (within reason - no badgering our brow-beating). Two martried adults should be able to have a reasonable discussion about an issue on which they disagree. If she feels strongly that there should be no guns around, let her make her case. If I feel strongly that we should be armed, I should make my case.

Now, from a strategy standpoint, I t hink you are probably right. Continuing to bring it up will only cause her to shut down further on the subject. In any case I feel better that I'm not the only one struggling with this.

ECHOONE
March 23, 2009, 09:50 AM
No Deadbolt Lock is safe....There selling keys on E-bay to anyone that has the money that along with a hammer can open just about any dead bolt in seconds and it shows no signs of forced entry, Nice huh!!! If you can a Dog ,An Alarm system, and as crazy as it may seem try to get in practice of carrying a compact defensive handgun in house,let's face it we live in bad times and things are getting worse! if you have kids sit them down truly educate them about guns in the house as early as you can avoid a horrible tragedy.Make your home a safe home for the guns to be in so that when you do need them there ,there to do the intended job if need be.

vox rationis
March 23, 2009, 10:52 PM
No Deadbolt Lock is safe....There selling keys on E-bay to anyone that has the money that along with a hammer can open just about any dead bolt in seconds and it shows no signs of forced entry, Nice huh!!!

what's worse is that all you need to adapt a regular key to a key that you are describing is a simple file and 20-30 minutes of your time..and you don't even need a hammer, just the handle of said file, or the handle of a screw driver...

video 1 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7849885287713677821&ei=VlTISeSGOYbQ-wH72sg9&q=bump+key&hl=en)

video 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5177213949300140850&ei=VlTISeSGOYbQ-wH72sg9&q=bump+key&hl=en)

Heepstress
March 24, 2009, 09:39 PM
RR,

You're right, Pax offered invaluable advice. I have another suggestion or two to add, or more support for a couple of her comments.

1. Try the splatter targets at the range. Wally World sells them, Dicks (and I'm sure other places) sell Dirty Birdies - those are really cool because the rings are different colors - lots of options. I love using splatter targets at the range. Helps me see where I'm really hitting (my progressive bifocals don't help!), and it's kinda fun to get the immediate feedback. (Not to mention, when I'm "on", it's a rush to show off a little. ;))

2. Ask your local range if they would consider special shooting days, times, contests, pricing, classes, etc for women. One of our favorite ranges has different, fun activities all the time. Valentine's Day was a CCW class for women only. They offer the "girlie colors" (I don't like em, though) for firearms, safety equipment, carry options, etc. It's fun. We've asked them to add a couples' shoot. My hubby (better half on the range :D) and I love to go shooting together. It's one of our favorite shared hobbies, and we think a couples shoot would be a blast.

3. WHEN she decides to take the next step toward CC, follow all the suggestions from the previous "what gun for my wife/girlfriend/sister/mother/fillintheblankwoman" threads - covertly guide her to all the right places where she can pick out her choice.

Good luck!

Re4mer
March 25, 2009, 09:23 PM
The dog was the best idea I read besides the obvious gun. I would love a big German Shepard but both the wife and I are allergic.

KingEdward
April 28, 2009, 11:43 AM
if she will not "carry" at home, what about this...

if she can shoot a shotgun, then she should be able to shoot a 4" barrel revolver loaded with .38 special ammo.

my mom was 78 yrs old and could shoot my smith model 19 with standard
.38s all day.

as opposed to "carrying" one, you could get a couple of blue steel used smith model 10s at a gun show and keep each loaded in areas of the house where she stays or just two good locations (maybe one in kitchen and one in living room).

These weapons can sit in a gun rug in a drawer and can be quite handy.

anythingshiny
April 28, 2009, 12:09 PM
i think i posted up our story of my wifes 'interview' at crabtree mall this past holiday season...

opened her eyes a little but she just generally is not the watch dog type. granted she would tear your eyes out with her thumbs if you threatened the kids..but her own protection is something i have to continue to gently work on.

i was able to 'trade' the 5 weeks of salsa lessons i took 'for her' and hooked her up with fighting pistol at Tactical Response in TN in a few weeks...one of the frequent flyer gals there is gonna work with her and hopefully it will be a fun weekend and she will get a lot of trigger time and a great mindset speech.

ill post up an AAR on the experience after class

LordofWar
April 28, 2009, 12:16 PM
Leaving a shot gun with her is a good idea. The best thing for a female alone at the house is to let the BGs have what they want and just get over with it but you dont know what their intention is these days.

I'd say leave a Glock 26 with Speer Dot HPs as well. Keep it somewhere it can easily come in handy.

MikeGoob
April 28, 2009, 12:28 PM
RE: Lock Bumping--I spent about $100 for a Medico deadbolt. The newest generation is as close as you can get to 'bump proof'. Some claim to be able to do it, but only after having access to a high quality scan of the key first. Blank keys for this kind of lock are useless.

You talking about your wife recovering from surgery while at home reminds me of this terrifying video of a break in. The woman had no real defense and the cops took way too long to get there. She was at the guys complete mercy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags

rantingredneck
April 28, 2009, 12:39 PM
Some updates.

I've installed a quick access safe with keypad in a location that she chose.

She's faster into that safe than I am. We had a little competition.......I lost....:D.

The gun in the safe is not what I would have chosen for her, but what she chose for herself. I basically opened up the gunsafe and asked her what she'd rather have in the quick access safe. She handled and fondled the various revolvers and semi's and dryfired them. She settled on the Ruger P90 because it has the best trigger and a safety. She doesn't like the trigger on the GP100's (surprising as she'd never said that before, but oh well........P90 it is......)

She's shot it before and did well with it, but I never thought that would be what she would have chosen. Live and learn. 9 rounds of .45ACP beats 6 of .38 SPL.

I've also added some exterior lighting and we are using the masterlock door bars at night or when I'm away from home.

pax
April 28, 2009, 12:50 PM
rr ~

What a great story! Glad things are working out.

:cool:

pax

rantingredneck
April 28, 2009, 01:39 PM
Funny from my perspective I would have chosen the P90 for the extra capacity and .45ACP oomph over the revolver shooting .38's (.357's indoors is not my cup o tea). I was too busy trying to think of it from her perspective instead of just leaving it up to her............Men.........:rolleyes:........:D.

Thanks again Pax for all the help........

Dismantler
April 30, 2009, 07:11 AM
I have had the gun talk with my wife and have had mixed results. I do not carry in the house, and I am sure that she will not. We have no children, and she knows where the guns are.

Problem is that we live in a small town/wooded area. We have had men on our property and she just struts up to them and asks them to leave. I have asked her if she took a gun and she never does. I keep telling her that she is going to regret this at some point, but she blows me off. So this is a closed subject between us.

Now, before you all tell me how to best communicate with my spouse...save your time. She has made her decision and will have to suffer the consequences if there are any to suffer. I don't like this careless attitude, but she reads the Armed Citizen every month and was once even on a jury that heard a home invasion case. Go figure.

OldMarksman
April 30, 2009, 09:56 AM
I've installed a quick access safe with keypad in a location that she chose.

Good start. Now, how about situations in which someone enters violently and suddenly and is then between your wife and that location?

I remember one writer discussing keeping guns in more than one location.

i thought about that but with our layout it would be problematical. If I were anywhere downstairs, and entry through the front would cut me off tfrom the stairs to the bedroom. If we were in the kitchen, any entry would be a disaster.

Unless of course we had comb safes in a number of places.

She's probably a long way from being ready for my solution, but you may want to think about the issue and discuss it with her.

My solution? A gun in a pocket holster. Never thought I'd and up doing that.

KingEdward
April 30, 2009, 10:15 AM
my mother and father in law are similar.

He is NRA life member, goes to range, has carry permit, has layers of security at home. wears either a John Deere or Remington cap, even in the house.

She could care less about guns. But she does realize there is danger and crime even in "safe" neighborhoods.

He does not "carry" at home. What he decided to do was arrange the house for defensive purposes as follows:

The Master bedroom has keypad which controls the security system. There is a Rem 870 in condition 3 along with a Taurus Tracker .357 and a mag lite should he need them in/around the bedroom. Also upstairs along with the master BR, there is a double barrel 20 gauge loaded in the guest BR which is the first room to the left up the stairs. It stays in the closet behind a garmet bag. Downstairs, he has reinforced all 3 entry doors with chain locks, extra deep dead bolts, and all the doors are solid (no glass).

Also downstairs in each of the main rooms (living room, kitchen, den, bath) he placed a Smith and Wesson model 10 heavy barrel revolver in a soft case in a drawer along with one reload each. The LR it's in the secretary. The kitchen it's in the china cabinet. The den it's in an end table. The bath room it's in the closet in a shaving kit case.

They are retired and keep the alarm on all the time. He figures if it goes off, he will retrieve an SD weapon where ever he is and go from there. They have been in the same neighborhood for 34 years and there have been two burglaries in the area over that time. One was in 1987 and one was in 2004.

My father in law is about the most practical man I know. Wouldn't hurt a fly either, but would protect himself and his family.

Solvo Pium
May 3, 2009, 09:18 PM
I think Pax is right. My wife is the same, she'll go shoot with me, but that is about it. She has even commented on "If something happens to me, then it is my time." Well, I promised my father-in-law to protect and take care of her. We have an alarm system, 2 dogs, good neighbors, put new deadbolts on the doors of the house when we bought it in December, with a rating, which I cnannot remember what it was, but it was a high rating in order for someone to beat he door down to get it open. We have a gun safe, shotgun loaded, 1st round bird shot, the rest of the 7 is OO buck. She has to rack it before she can fire. Pretty much I don't force it on her. She still shoots with me and a group of us in my unit. I do think that if the situation arises, and she makes it to the closet, someone on the other end of the barrel is going to have a surprise. We have a little one on the way , so I am sure I have another round of convincing to her pertaining to weapons in the home. Good luck to you. Keep it safe.

Kyo
May 3, 2009, 09:29 PM
Best convo ever I had a while ago.
"Listen, let me know when you aren't afraid of guns anymore, and I'll teach you to shoot the 45"
"Ok, that will be never"
"What about when you have kids? How are you gonna protect them if no one is there?"
"Then I would shoot the guy, those are my kids!"
Say the word kids and its over lol.
Won't touch the gun, but likes me having it.

petemo
May 4, 2009, 03:06 PM
Your wife is making decisions. I would worry about her safety too. I am not sure if this will help but my wife was resistent to shooting clay birds. She did not mind watching but she wold have nothing to do with the shooting part. I asked her why and she never really answered my question.
Since I reload all different types of ammo I loaded some Tripple A' with a lower charge of powder and shot and she loved it. It was all about blast noise and recoil of full power loads. After that she got pretty good with a shotgun. Did the same with several handguns backing down from bone breaking loads. Just a thought. Maybe this will help

threegun
May 6, 2009, 05:09 PM
Deadbolts are surprisingly flimsy. The weak point is the door frame, easily kicked in. You may want to reinforce that area and get a door brace bar.

Bingo! I had a burglar kick in my front door while the family was at school and work. My monitored alarm system did its job quite well as they ran when they heard the alarm go off stealing nothing. My neighbor heard a single bang (the burglars kick to my door). A single kick completely exploded my door frame instantly. This left us feeling unsure that we would have the time necessary to get to one of several guns around the house. Now we have installed iron bar doors similar to those sold at home depot for 350 bucks. Now we have time to react.

PS. The inside bar can do the same however the iron bars work while we are gone also.

CorpITGuy
May 16, 2009, 11:16 AM
I have a picture on my phone of my wife shooting an M60, so it's hard for me to "relate" on this subject; but, you've received some good advice here. Like they said, use psychology and make it about your kids... and make darn sure she is VERY well-trained. Make it fun for her to shoot. It probably is for you. :)

As others have mentioned, having her wear the gun she learns to use is important. It does no good sitting in a closet unloaded, or even loaded for that matter. You have a fraction of a second to react and clear leather in most instances.

FyredUp
May 16, 2009, 01:31 PM
My girlfriend has been home for about 9 weeks recovering from cancer surgery and chemo. I was very worried about her physical state and her inability to defend herself from attack. She is a shooter and I asked her which pistol she wanted set up for her and she picked the Springfield Loaded 1911 in .45ACP. I loaded it, cocked and locked it for her, and put it in the gun safe that way. She is very competent with this pistol and i felt good about her choice. Her first line of defense in her 2 dogs, a purebred German Shephard and a lab mix. Both are extremely loyal and very protective of her.

My choices for a woman for protection would be first a good dog, if she is not a shooter. Second, work with her on being comfortable with a gun. Practice, practice, practice, until it is second nature.

The dog is auttomatic, the gun is reactionary and depends on human intervention. People's reactions are different depending on mindset. The most important thing about having a gun for self defense is having your mind made up to shoot if you need to. If there is any question of that, forget the gun and buy a second dog.

output
May 18, 2009, 10:00 AM
I agree with Re4mer…

I’m a dog trainer…dog lover. I’m a firm believer that dog is mankind’s best friend without any doubt. Some people think that in order to have a ‘good’ guard dog, the dog has to be BIG and POWERFUL but that is not the case at all. A small dog is better then no dog at all, in fact some of the smaller breeds are some of the best ‘watchdogs’ because they hear everything, and are quick to alert. They aren’t much for protection, but they can let you know something is going on outside long before you would ever have known.

I have a two German Shepards that I would trust with my family’s life, and the same applies for the dogs. My dogs are protection trained, but if you treat your dog right and it comes down to it…it won’t need training to protect(some people might not agree).

I would rather be shot then attached by a dog that means business, or is protecting its family… If you have any questions about dogs just PM me, if I can I’m more then willing to give advise.

Here is a great quote…

I think we are drawn to dogs because they are the uninhibited creatures we might be if we weren't certain we knew better. They fight for honor at the first challenge, make love with no moral restraint, and they do not for all their marvelous instincts appear to know about death. Being such wonderfully uncomplicated beings, they need us to do their worrying. ~George Bird Evans

J.Smith
June 6, 2009, 08:28 PM
Holly Bushes under the windows are my favorite home defense mechanism. Even cut low having to walk through them is a painful experience. Secondly the HDTV security camera systems you can get through Costco and Sams club or security wholesalers online work great. On my town house I have the entrance door and the dowstairs windows and hall covered. Also going down the stairs. It is tied in via a cable tuner on my Computer so All I have to do at night is turn down the monitor light and leave the DVR recording.Third would be the shotgun. For someone like myself it is the perfect SD weapon for house close quarters. After that straight to 1911s and Speer and Double tap HPs. Also reinforced Steel doors and door frames are mandatory, along with Security monitoring. Have been considering when I build a house in a few years, of having a vault company come in and build a sliding vault door into my bedroom and using concrete block on that part of the house in order to create a bedroom with a walk in gun safe as well as turning my room into a safe room.

TRX
June 9, 2009, 12:21 PM
I'm going to avoid the gun/no gun issue for the moment and make a couple of different suggestions:

1) get some plastic squeeze bottles. Fill them with ammonia-based cleaner. With a little practice you can hit a face-sized target across the room, and you can practice with ordinary water.

2) I don't know the name of this thing, but I saw some elderly people carry them - they're an "emergency button" that hangs around your neck or clips to your belt. It's basically a cellphone. When you push the button, it calls a number and plays a message. Some call more than one number. They're used by people who have had strokes, and are likely to have them again. Stroke victims often lose the power of speech temporarily, and even if they can dial 911, the operator will give it low priority if nobody says anything.


If police response time in your area is poor - it is where I live - you might want to report a fire or heart attack instead of a burglary. Response time is usually much faster than police, and for someone unwilling to defend themself, they're probably going to need an EMT more than a cop anyway.

JohnRaven
June 9, 2009, 04:02 PM
RE: Lock Bumping

I've seen countless videos of so called ''bumping''. This technique has been around for over 30 years, it is just now coming to the surface. Also, the real term is RAPPING, not bumping.

Also, it is not as easy as so many videos make it out to be.

As far as bumping just about 'any lock'. B.S.

There are many locks out there that are simply impossible to bump.

If you want a REAL lock with REAL security, don't buy the worthless crap you can buy at wal-mart, home depot, lowes, menards, ect ect... If you think spending $50 on a lock is a lot of money, think again... So many people expect a $50, heck, even a $25 lock to protect every possession they own...
:eek: W.T.F.

If you are going to get a deadbolt for your home, and you want a GOOD one, you are going to spend WELL over $100, easily $200.

2 Suggestions, MEDICO & MUL-T-LOCK.

They are both VERY good locks, however, I prefer the MUL-T-LOCK over the MEDICO.

http://hackaday.com/2009/05/22/marc-weber-tobias-vs-medeco/

I personally know Mark Tobias, he was at my house just last week. He was NOT able to defeat the MUL-T-LOCK Cylinder my dad and I gave him to test out and defeat. He had this Cylinder for 6 months. Mark is the best in the business, if he can't defeat it, no one can.


As far as kicking in the door and the frame giving way, sure it can be done... You have to have a good frame, good door, and even a better lock.

my 2 cents...

FireForged
June 25, 2009, 12:15 PM
Its all about time and difficulty... as we already know that any house can be broken into. My idea if to make it as difficult as possible so that I have time to react.

rantingredneck
June 29, 2009, 11:10 AM
We seem to have gone full circle here on handgun selection for the quick access safe.

She initially chose the P90 based on trigger feel alone. A couple weeks ago while on vacation we spent some time at a gun range (HER IDEA!!!, I couldn't believe it) with several of my toys. She did not like the recoil of the P90. It just doesn't fit her hand well and because of that the recoil was beating her up a bit. She also said that with brass flying while she was shooting there was just "too much going on at once."

On to the revolvers........

She spent about an hour (and a boat load of ammo) with my SP101 4" .22LR. She really enjoyed shooting it (and my 22/45, but she like the wheelgun better). She then shot the GP100 and my 2.25" SP101. She did great with both but the GP100's grip was just a bit too large for her hands.

In discussion afterward she asked that I move the P90 out of the quick access safe and put a revolver in there for her instead. I asked her to pick one and she picked the SP101...........oops..........that's MY favorite carry gun............uhoh........:eek:. But being the loving, dutiful husband that I am, it went in the safe........

Fast forward a week and long story short, another SP101 (this one a 3" .357) joined our family on Friday. We haven't been back to the range with it yet, but she's been dryfiring it (as have I). It's got a pretty good trigger out of the box, better than previous examples. I'll have it set up soon with a meprolight front night sight for her and we'll make a return trip to the range.

This 3" .357 will be loaded with 125 gr. .38+P JHP's or 158 gr LSWCHP's and stashed for her.