View Full Version : pattern way right
March 11, 2009, 01:40 PM
I put a synthetic stock on my 11-87 b/c I wanted a monte carlo comb and I was tired of dinging up my hardwood stock. Now it patterns off to the right. If I put some sort of wedge pushing the barrel left will that fix my problem?
If not, how do i fix it?
March 11, 2009, 01:42 PM
You'll need to shim your stock between stock and action. This will fix your problem. I'm not terribly up to snuff on fitting shotguns myself, but others will be along shortly to advise.
March 11, 2009, 04:22 PM
Wow - lots of issues ...
I'm assuming you're talking about a synthetic "monte carlo stock " ( so you replaced the whole stock ) ?
On the new stock, is the comb parallel to the rib ?
Does the new stock have an adjustable comb cut into the stock ?
How many shells did you fire / what choke did you use / did you use new factory shells ? Did you try more than one choke ? If yes, did the point of impact ( POI ) change ? Did you try a different shell - if yes, did POI change ? If no to all this - go back and do it again, use a full choke at about 25 yards / so you can really get a solid POI. Shoot at least 3 shells at a spot on pattern board - to ensure they agree - and you didn't flinch or something. If its still to the right / try a different choke - to make sure its not a choke problem.....
On the new stock - take it off the gun - is there an angle to it / or is the center of the butt pad on the center line of the comb - and the center line thru hte head of the stock going into the receiver. When you tighten it up on the receiver - does it move one way or the other ? What kind of stock is it / can you return it ?? Make the same measurements on the old wood stock - are they different ?
Is the length of pull different - that might be causing you to " yank " it one way a little ....
Like I said - lots of issues ...
March 11, 2009, 04:28 PM
I used one choke. Improved and it is pretty much the only choke I use in this barrel.
I fired about 15 rounds of the shell I use for trap
When I flinch I usually shoot low left. These were all right
lots of ideas in that last post. I will investigate further later tonight.
March 11, 2009, 05:27 PM
check the barrel connection too / make sure nothing changed there / make sure it seated properly.
I suppose it might be a good idea to check the 2nd barrel too ??
March 12, 2009, 01:11 AM
+1 to BigJimP's comments
Seems the new stock has changed your mount significantly. Before you do anything drastic, put a mid bead on you barrel (you didn't mention what type of barrel you have), even if just a temporary, to check your mount alignment. Are you seeing a Figure-8, or are the beads out of lateral alignment? Correct the stock as needed to get your mount centered.
March 12, 2009, 02:00 AM
Check the torque on the stock bolt and make sure you did not over tighten the stock.
March 12, 2009, 07:49 AM
Pretty busy last night so I did not get a chance to look at this. I think I have about 5 gunsmithing projects going at the minute and I need to sit down and finish them one at a time.
Are you seeing a Figure-8, or are the beads out of lateral alignment?
Actual the thing I thought was pretty odd was that I am getting a figure 8 when I mount it.
I very well may have over tightened it.
March 12, 2009, 12:06 PM
No figure 8 before / but there is one now .... now you know there is a difference in the center line drawn from the center of the barrel thru the center line of the comb on this new comb vs the other one.
Now all you have to do is figure out why ? Did you mount it wrong / is it bent / was some cast built into the new stock ...
If you only have 5 gunsmithing projects ....you don't procrastinate nearly as much as I do ...
March 12, 2009, 01:07 PM
The sights line up how I want them to now. Previously I was using a neoprene comb raiser that was pushing my chin left causing the figure eight to be canted. THe top of the figure eight was tilted to the left about 10*. From lining up two pens on my desk and analyzing how this would affect thing it makes me thing that the POA should be left of the POI in this case. So with my new stock where the beads line up correctly it seems the pattern should move left due to the change if anything.
Actually I redid my experiment and I am now convinced my shotgun patterned right before but my old neoprene comb kit balanced it out so I was right on. Now I am thoroughly confused as to what I should do. Maybe I should just put the old stock back on and not worry about it getting dinged up.
I used two button pens, the front with the tip out and the rear with tip not exposed standing up on my desk for my test. I had to look absolutely absurd but no one in my office seemed to notice.
March 12, 2009, 01:19 PM
I would still recommend taking the new stock off / check the fit at the receiver and make sure it is seating properly ( and that you still have a figure 8 on top of barrels ) - and make sure its tightened properly.
re-pattern the gun.
If POI is still right ...
then check the pattern with a different choke and see how it looks / or borrow a couple of chokes from a buddy and test those.
If you have a figure 8 / and the stock is on straight .... it ought to shoot straight .... unless barrel isn't seated properly / or unless the choke is not bored correctly along the axis of the center of the barrel ? I suppose its possible - since you had an offset on the stock before / you were correcting for a barrel / choke problem.
March 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
Bigjim, I will take it to the range and do exactly as you have instructed a long with many of the other suggestions given in the thread this weekend. I am sure this will give me a better idea of what is going on if nothing else. Maybe I will get lucky and find a fix.
I almost always use this choke out of it, but I own and have tried/patterned the others I have with the old stock. I never noticed a significant difference between chokes before, although I know there sometimes is a difference.
I would be very surprised if the barrel is not seated correctly as the 11-87 barrel is fairly easy to install and the bolt usually will not close if it is not seated correctly.
I think I will have to make a more detailed inspection of the barrel and be certain the mid rib ball is centered and the there is no bend in the barrel.
March 12, 2009, 02:40 PM
The problem is we're all trying to help "remotely" without seeing you shoot or see the gun - but I'd be surprised if there is a bend in the barrel.
There may not be any issue with the chokes either .. and that would be good if they're all fine.
But once you've eliminated those issues - then we can concentrate on the stock. Based on what you've said / I think its proabably a stock issue - but eliminating the other issues, just in case, is a worthwhile exercize first.
I'm concerned about the old stock - where you said it was rolled ten degrees to the left ..... that's not good. But if this stock is straight ...I'm still scratching my head a little...( since you now have a figure 8 ) ...
March 12, 2009, 02:47 PM
I will try to explain that again.
The stock was straight I believe. The way my cheek was positioned when I looked down the sight the mid rib bead was slightly to the right of the muzzle bead, so the figure eight looked as if it was rolled slightly counter clockwise.
March 13, 2009, 08:06 AM
I went to the trap shoot at my local club last night and passed the gun around. No one could see any visible bend and this is what they came up with:
I overtightened the butt-stock screw as you guys suggested and I need to take it off and install a rubber washer so I can't over tighten it
the stock touches the right side of the barrel but not the left, so the barrel was bouncing around. It was agreed this would be extremely strange in a shotgun, but it was possible.
I bought some rubber washers, sand paper, and a one inch dowel to try things out.
I was there to sight in a pistol and the pattern boards are down range from the trap house so I couldn't test anything out.
March 13, 2009, 11:33 AM
But you're making progress - ( and some guys are there to help you - that can actually lay their hands on the gun ) - so that's a good thing.
March 14, 2009, 12:03 AM
If you’re mid bead is to the right of the front bead then your pattern will be to the left of the point of aim. If you have put on a cheek piece on your shotgun this will push the gun out throwing you bead to the right of the front bead. It is not to pricey to have the stock cut and an adjustable cheek piece put on I would suggest one that is adjustable to the left and right as well as up and down. Just a thought.
March 14, 2009, 08:17 AM
I had someone look at adding an adjustable piece to my wood stock and he said it was not a good idea because it was not a monte carlo stock. There was very little wood between the stock bolt and the top of the stock.
March 14, 2009, 11:01 PM
added the rubber washer tonight and did some sanding. I removed enough so that it does not touch under normal circumstances but the plastic in the forestock is not all that rigid and when I grip it the stock makes contact with the barrel. If that is the problem I am going to have to trash the stock. Should be able to get out and pattern the gun tomorrow night.
April 19, 2009, 02:53 PM
Finally went out to shoot some 5 stand today. back on target. Hit 17, which isn't too bad for the first shoot of the season. I am pretty sure the rubber washer is what did the trick.
April 19, 2009, 08:25 PM
Glad to hear its working for you finanlly - and for what its worth, I agree - don't put an adj comb on a stock that is not Monte Carlo/
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