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View Full Version : Musings on a Recent Carjacking/Murder


andrewskaggs
March 10, 2009, 12:53 PM
Our quiet west TN town got shaken up this weekend when a 61 year old lady got carjacked in the middle of the day from the parking lot of Fred's (about a mile from my house). Her body was found about an hour later and her car was found in a blaze about 20 miles away.

Despite the fact that I preach to my wife constantly about how bad things can happen anywhere, it was still kind of a shock to think that this happened so close to home.

Murders are horrible, horrible things but some good can come from them--not the least of which is prompting a community to examine the precautions they do/should take to avoid putting themselves in a position where this could happen to them.

I've always tried to be aware of my surroundings (checking mirrors often at red lights to make sure no one is coming up behind me, looking around a parking lot on the way to/from a vehicle), but in light of these events I've found myself being more and more cautious. I'm trying to be more diligent about locking the doors as soon as I get into a vehicle, etc.

This incident has also allowed me to open a dialog with my wife about her getting her carry permit. She hasn't said no outright yet, which is farther than we've gotten before.

So...some questions for the collective:

1. Where do you draw the line between caution and paranoia? I love to drive around with the windows down (specifically, I love the sound of my Mustang's exhaust when I take off from a stop). Does this put me at enough of a risk that I should think about not doing it?

2. What do you do with your carry piece when in your car? I'm pretty confident that I could draw my .40 from my IWB holster while seated in a car, but I'm doubtful that I could make use of my .357 in my front pocket holster in a timely fashion (which I tend to carry in warmer weather).

3. Without trivializing this tragedy, what is the best way to go about using these events to persuade my wife to more seriously consider CCW?

A link to the story:

http://jacksonsun.com/article/20090310/NEWS01/903100319/1002/rss

Brian Pfleuger
March 10, 2009, 01:01 PM
I love to drive around with the windows down (specifically, I love the sound of my Mustang's exhaust when I take off from a stop). Does this put me at enough of a risk that I should think about not doing it?

Not particularly, glass is not much of a barrier. Don't go to places that you don't feel safe driving with your windows down.


What do you do with your carry piece when in your car?

Stays in my Crossbreed Supertuck IWB, typically at about 3oclock.


what is the best way to go about using these events to persuade my wife to more seriously consider CCW?


www.corneredcat.com

Mello2u
March 10, 2009, 01:01 PM
To rise to the level of paranoia your fear would have to be irrational or excessive. Those are somewhat subjective criteria.

Is it irrational or excessive to maintain situational awareness when you are "out and about"? I think not. I've been maintaining condition yellow for decades when "out and about". Is it irrational or excessive to get insurance? Insurance is having something to reduce the risks of whatever the insurance is for. A gun can be insurance; assuming proper mindset, training and use.

I agree that www.corneredcat.com contains information valuable to women written mostly by women.

Creature
March 10, 2009, 01:06 PM
Not particularly, glass is not much of a barrier.

Wanna bet?...I have seen side windows take multiple hits from PR24 batons and ASP's...and not break. Still not a believer? I once threw a brick at the side window of a Chevy (dont ask why) only to have that same brick promptly bounce back at me...narrowly missing hitting me in the jaw!

It takes a large amount of force concentrated at a very small area to break tempered glass.

andrewskaggs
March 10, 2009, 01:12 PM
Not particularly, glass is not much of a barrier. Don't go to places that you don't feel safe driving with your windows down.

I suppose I should have explained my question a bit better. My concern was not whether or not the glass would provide any protection against handgun rounds (they certainly won't). It was rather about negating the primary benefit of locking doors (denying access to the inside of the car).

Also, in this particular situation I would have felt a comfortable level of safety in my car (a low-crime area in the middle of the day with a lot of people around). I suppose you could argue that nowhere is safe (and the argument would be valid).

As an aside, I also use a SuperTuck for my Sigma .40 at about 2:00.

Brian Pfleuger
March 10, 2009, 01:19 PM
My concern was not whether or not the glass would provide any protection against handgun rounds (they certainly won't).


Wanna bet?...


Point being not to go places wherein you are uncomfortable with your windows down. I know glass offers SOME protection. To me it's very much like my behavior when carrying a gun, sure it makes me "safer" but I still don't go where I don't feel safe without it.

andrewskaggs
March 10, 2009, 01:23 PM
Point being not to go places wherein you are uncomfortable with your windows down. I know glass offers SOME protection. To me it's very much like my behavior when carrying a gun, sure it makes me "safer" but I still don't go where I don't feel safe without it.

I think I may have edited my post above after you started writing your reply.

For convenience:

Also, in this particular situation I would have felt a comfortable level of safety in my car (a low-crime area in the middle of the day with a lot of people around). I suppose you could argue that nowhere is safe (and the argument would be valid).

Bauer
March 10, 2009, 02:11 PM
1. Where do you draw the line between caution and paranoia? I love to drive around with the windows down (specifically, I love the sound of my Mustang's exhaust when I take off from a stop). Does this put me at enough of a risk that I should think about not doing it?
I draw the line when my life starts to be affected negatively because of my paranoia. I look at it the same as OCD and just little ticks. There are some rituals I have but they aren't OCD because they don't negatively affect my daily life. Being aware of what is around you and carrying a pistol in the first place isn't paranoia. If you move to the hills and hunker down with automatic weapons and copper wire everywhere, well maybe you have crossed into paranoid. You may also be a meth addict. Driving with your windows down is plenty fine as long as you are aware of what is near you.

2. What do you do with your carry piece when in your car? I'm pretty confident that I could draw my .40 from my IWB holster while seated in a car, but I'm doubtful that I could make use of my .357 in my front pocket holster in a timely fashion (which I tend to carry in warmer weather).
Using your firearm while in your car should be a very unlikely last resort. Never underestimate the utility of a vehicle. You should be able to get yourself out of virtually any situation you will find yourself in, in an urban environment. I usually put my firearm in my special hiding spot that would be very difficult to find but also not the easiest thing to access. If I can drive away I can also find the time to retrieve it just in case I am not 100% in the clear now.

3. Without trivializing this tragedy, what is the best way to go about using these events to persuade my wife to more seriously consider CCW?
Baby steps. I didn't see if you mentioned it or now but perhaps try and push some spray on her and then possibly a smaller caliber pistol.

freakintoguns
March 10, 2009, 02:26 PM
it took our house getting broken into and my aunt getting robbed at gunpoint for me to convince my mom she needed to carry a pistol for protection. hoppefully your wife isnt as stubborn.

Ginger
March 10, 2009, 02:35 PM
What a neat lady and what a tragedy. It reminds me how important it is to be aware of surroundings, not just for one's own safety, but the safety of others. I sure hope they find whoever did this.

Quincunx
March 10, 2009, 02:49 PM
When out driving the Suburban, gun is out of the holster and laid down in the little tray at the bottom of the center console. Not easily visible from outside the truck, but quickly accessible in an emergency. This on the advice of a police officer I met here in the Jackson area.

Creature
March 10, 2009, 03:15 PM
When out driving the Suburban, gun is out of the holster and laid down in the little tray at the bottom of the center console. Not easily visible from outside the truck, but quickly accessible in an emergency. This on the advice of a police officer I met here in the Jackson area.

I think that is very bad advice.

I have personally witnessed several motor vehicle accidents and more than a couple were roll-over accident. Everything, and I mean everything that wasnt strapped down became a missile inside those vehicles during those accidents...especially the rollovers. And as those vehicles all came to a stop, darn near everything that moments before was airborne inside those vehicles was then left strewn across the roads and medians for many yards all around...even stuff that was "secured" in locked consoles was left laying all about (most console locks are pretty pathetic). Seeing the aftermath of these car wrecks really drove this home for me...no pun intended.

The point I am trying to make is that unless it is strapped to your side in a holster, consider your pistol as good as gone if you are ever involved in a serious car wreck. And a car wreck is far more likely to occur than actually have to access your pistol while seated in your vehicle. It is for this reason that I never unholster my weapon inside a vehicle. Its also the reason that I always keep my cellphone secured inside of my pocket while driving. I might need that phone and may not be able to move much...let alone trying to find it...if I am ever involved in a serious car wreck.

Ginger
March 10, 2009, 03:18 PM
think that is very bad advice.

I have personally witnessed several motor vehicle accidents. More than a few of which were roll-over accident. Everything, and I mean everything that wasnt strapped down became a missile inside those vehicles during those accidents...especially the rollovers. As those vehicles all came to a stop, darn near everything that was airborne inside those vehicles was left strewn across the roads and medians for many yards all around...even stuff that was "secured" in locked consoles was left laying all about (most console locks are pretty pathetic). Seeing the aftermath of these car wrecks really drove this home for me...no pun intended.

The point I am trying to make is that unless it is strapped to your side in a holster, consider your pistol as good as gone if you are ever involved in a serious car wreck. And a car wreck is far more likely to occur than actually have to access your pistol while seated in your vehicle. It is for this reason that I never unholster my weapon inside a vehicle. Its also the reason that I always keep my cellphone secured inside of my pocket while driving. I might need that phone and may not be able to move much...let alone trying to find it...if I am ever involved in a serious car wreck.


I agree. That is really good advice. I've been in a rollover accident so that's the first thing that came to mind when I read about the unsecured firearm, but I didn't think about my phone. Thanks!

Creature
March 10, 2009, 04:22 PM
All of the roll-over accidents that I witnessed were completely sudden and unexpected. All occurred at speed and all were caused by catastrophic tire failure. Worn-out tires kill.

Quincunx
March 10, 2009, 04:51 PM
Hadn't thought about an accident, probably because I've gotten too complacent in only living about 2 miles from work. Perhaps the LEO gave me that suggestion has his firearm secured there in some way that I missed him mentioning. I'll certainly make sure mine is better secured from now on. Thanks!

Ricklin
March 10, 2009, 04:52 PM
Every item in the car can also become a missile in the event of an accident. Be a bummer to have to have your handgun extricated from the back of your head. Cargo items in general can really make a bad wreck worse.

DanThaMan
March 10, 2009, 06:46 PM
It's important to be able to distinguish that line between caution and paranoia. The reason you conceal carry and take precautions with you and your wife is because you value your life and enjoy every day and don't want it to end. I'm sure that went without saying, but that is the basis for what I'm arguing. Once you start becoming infatuated with fear of the unknown, that enjoyment starts to slowly but surely dwindle. Live life with your windows down, and as stress free as possible so you don't forget why you carry. But by all means, train, and be able to draw that pistol fast and hit your target. Perhaps make locking car doors second nature so you aren't pondering the dangers of not doing so every time you get in your car.

Hope abstract response helped :).

Sparks2112
March 11, 2009, 08:56 AM
Didn't two of the FBI agents in the Platt and Matix fiasco loose their guns because they took them out of their holsters for easier access, then couldn't find them after they wrecked their car?