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View Full Version : Albino Deer... protect or not...


hogdogs
March 10, 2009, 11:39 AM
Due to the antler restriction thread I am posting on this...
Who thinks laws protecting the albino deer is fair to the herd?
We are talking about a genetically inferior deer with a recessive gene. Possibly deaf, likely suffering sun issues due to zero/minimal skin pigment.
I don't think it occurs often enuff to interfere with an entire herd but some locales protect them as a "special" deer.
Then there is a dog breed (dogo argentina) where breed confirmation requires culling out the "non-white" puppies to maintain a white breed. Thus they are prone to all the recessive gene tendencies. Not to mention how many superior hunting dogs are gone simply due to too much color...
Brent

Kreyzhorse
March 10, 2009, 11:47 AM
I've never heard of protecting albino deer before. Since its a genetic trait that can manifest itself whenever, I'm not sure I agree with protecting them. They are rare, but certainly not in danger of going extinct.

Anyway, saw my first albino this past deer season. Didn't get to see her alive, but a hunter had shot a doe and was going to have the hide tanned. We were all trying to talk him into having it mounted. Very cool deer. The hunter who took it said he had seen a lot of piebald deer in the area, but this was his first albino.

Brian Pfleuger
March 10, 2009, 11:50 AM
I don't think they should be protected and they're not in NY state. There is actually a herd of almost entirely albino deer north of Syracuse. I think it's part of the military base up there. Besides those, we see very few albinos but I do hear of someone shooting one every so often.

fisherman66
March 10, 2009, 11:54 AM
I don't understand why there should be any urge to protect an inferior genetic code. If anyone has that desire they can high fence and domesticate a piebald herd. Then they can dye them pink fer Easter and green fer St. Patty's day and let the kiddos get their picture taken with them. Silly.

Brian Pfleuger
March 10, 2009, 11:59 AM
I don't understand why there should be any urge to protect an inferior genetic code.

They're pretty, why else?:barf::rolleyes:

Buzzcook
March 10, 2009, 12:05 PM
I've never heard of albino deer being protected.

pilothunter
March 10, 2009, 12:05 PM
Albino deer are protected in Tennessee, but not piebald. I don't see any reason to not include them among the rest of the deer population, and have them governed by the exact same hunting regs.

There is nothing correct in protecting an animal, or making it "unshootable" simply because it has a lack of pigment, IMHO.

OLNfan
March 10, 2009, 12:15 PM
I certinally agree I know theirs white bears, white elk, Now Im not talking polar bears but brown bears with an irregular genetic make up giving them the white coat. As for the elk? Im not sure if they are unshootable aswell. Either way its like Oh im aloud to shoot the black and brown ones..not the white eh? I guess they have become domesticated. Lol just playin here folks, but I certinaly agree coat/skin/hyde pigment should not bring just cause for the animal to be unshootable. I agree they are gorgeous and fun to look at..but they will be alot more fun to look at in my house as a rug thats for sure! I do live in B.C. Canada and its not often we here of an albino game let alone any one shooting one. Im not exactly sure what the regulations are cause when I think of it. The series I watched on albino brown bear was in alaska lol if my geography is right that makes it U.S.A lol so I beleive ill have to check in to this topic for Canadian b.c. hunting regulations.

Ruger4570
March 10, 2009, 12:19 PM
The Military base that has the white deer is the old Samson site in Romulus, NY. I have a friend living there and get there a lot. The deer are NOT albino deer as they all have black noses and dark eyes as opposed to pink eyes as in true Albinos.
The area was always fenced as a Military Base therefore colored deer could not get in to breed with the white ones. There is a local effort and group trying to "preserve" the herd but I don't know how sucessful they will be.
A lot of the fence is down or gone so colored deer can easily get in the area and cross breed with the white deer. (this almost seems like a racial thread now :D)
There has been "rumors" that the Military stored a lot of radioactive stuff there and that is what caused the white deer to evolve. Who knows if it is true or not?

Brian Pfleuger
March 10, 2009, 12:33 PM
The deer are NOT albino deer as they all have black noses and dark eyes as opposed to pink eyes as in true Albinos.

I do remember hearing that before, now that you mention it.

ZeroJunk
March 10, 2009, 01:35 PM
We had an albino deer on the lease. It was not completely blind, but I could get within 30 yards of it most any time from down wind. Saw no reason to kill it. Absolutely no challenge. There have been albino deer around as long as I can remember, and they don't fare very well. So, I doubt your shooting one is going to irradicate them. Wolves, lions, coyotes, bears, haven't been able to. But, I don't see much logic in protecting them either, other than the sentimental fact that they are so easy to kill.

Hawg
March 10, 2009, 01:41 PM
There's a lot of white deer from further north in the state where I'm originally from but they're not albinos. We've got a lot of piebalds here. Got a piebald hide in the freezer now I'm planning on tanning.

Maromero
March 10, 2009, 01:52 PM
Then there is a dog breed (dogo argentina) where breed confirmation requires culling out the "non-white" puppies to maintain a white breed. Thus they are prone to all the recessive gene tendencies.

The Dogo Argentino or Argentinian Mastiff is not an albino breed. The color of the breed is white and spotted dogs do not conform to the standard. Even if they are culled out, the same happens with white boxers. Its the way to mantain a breed standard and the same happens in every single breed.

thekyrifleman
March 10, 2009, 02:24 PM
I always thought a true albino is sterile so there is no problems with it reproducing itself. The white phase or piebald occurs rarely and it will not necessarily reproduce white offspring. I watched a white doe for several years and she dropped twins two years in a row that were normal brown phase. Some youngster finally shot her in the 4th year. I was always taught that it was bad luck to shoot one, kind of like the "white buffalo". But to each his own.

DiscoRacing
March 10, 2009, 02:26 PM
not sure if protected here or not... tho i wouldnt shoot one.... guess i consider them rare.. special...

hogdogs
March 10, 2009, 02:28 PM
Albino is not necessarily impotent... I knew a couple of both albino humans that married and bred and produced... WAIT FOR IT... Albino children... Full albino humans with nearly pink eyes and had to wear full cover clothing and dark glasses in the sun...
Brent

hogdogs
March 10, 2009, 02:29 PM
I consider them weak for the gene pool so I would shoot one in a heartbeat... deer that is not the aforementioned albino humans that get a pass...
Brent

James R. Burke
March 10, 2009, 03:06 PM
They were protected in Michigan till about a year ago. You can shoot them now, I guess they finally figured out that it was just a defect, and why protect it.

JustKev55
March 11, 2009, 04:03 AM
Several years ago I managed to get a shot at what turned out to be a piebald buck. Nice 8 point rack. It was opening morning and he snuck up behind me then made the mistake of being curious about what I was. He started stomping his front feet and bobbing his head. The season wasn't even an hour old for me and I was already done. Would I do it again? You're durn tootin I would. That was the tastiest whitetail I ever ate. And on top of it all, it gave me an additional month of birdhunting that I wouldn't normally have had.

Double Naught Spy
March 11, 2009, 06:41 AM
The deer are NOT albino deer as they all have black noses and dark eyes as opposed to pink eyes as in true Albinos.

This statement would be in error. Albinism can occur in part or in total.

Albino is not necessarily impotent...
Right, albinism does not usually affect the ability to have an erection. If an albino deer is having trouble getting and maintaining erections for sexual reproduction, it is likely due to other causes.

With that said, albinism isn't associated with sterility either. If an albino animal is sterile, the sterility is due to other causes.

Albinism may have a negative affect on mating, however, as the visual clues used by some animals for mate selection may not be present and so the albino animal may have a more difficult time being accepted by a potential mate.

12GaugeShuggoth
March 11, 2009, 08:31 AM
I haven't encountered a true full albino deer yet, but there have been several of the partial albino/piebald deer killed on our property over the past decade or so. They all seemed to be relatively healthy deer, but just not quite right. No glaring abnormalities like 5th legs growing out of their backs or anything :eek:, but still enough to know that they were deformed in one way or another.

All of them have shared certain attributes though:
1--bent/crooked necks.
2--bent/crooked hoofs and the lower portion of their legs.
3--underdeveloped antlers, often being nothing more than long spikes.
4.--relatively small overall body size

All of them were alone when seen and/or killed. I don't know if they are effectively social outcasts or something, but I can't remember seeing one that was really mingling with other deer. Several years ago there was a piebald doe that was hanging around here, don't know what exactly happened to her but she only had 3 legs. She seemed perfectly healthy otherwise when we'd watch her, didn't seem to have any problems going about her daily activities. No one ever took a shot at her, just didn't seem fair. She was observed pretty often for about 3 years or so and then vanished.

Brian Pfleuger
March 11, 2009, 09:24 AM
All of them were alone when seen and/or killed. I don't know if they are effectively social outcasts or something,...

I've heard that the other deer are aware of how badly the whities stick out and therefore avoid them. Don't know if it's true or not or even how we could ever know the real reason, unless someone were telepathic.

Double Naught Spy
March 11, 2009, 11:06 AM
I've heard that the other deer are aware of how badly the whities stick out and therefore avoid them. Don't know if it's true or not or even how we could ever know the real reason, unless someone were telepathic.

Right. Folks who claim such reasoning or anthropomorphizing the animal's behavior with post hoc rationale of what they believe is going on.

As for them being spotted singly, I see lots of deer singly. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. No doubt that if a hunter spots a rare albino deer (which are about half as common as ablinism in humans), he will note the circumstances. If the deer is alone, he may attribute the loan animal being that way because of the color when in reality, deer may spend a good deal of their lives solitary, depending on the season, population characteristics, and individual behavior.

Here are a few shots of albinos and regular deer together...

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2007/03/04/albino-deer-captured-on-film/
http://blog.kb3lzv.com/2007/11/26/albino-deer-from-maryland-paper.aspx
http://www.caverun.org/images/Albino_Deer_Large.JPG
http://urngarden.com/cremationblog/tag/albino-deer/
http://www.nobodyasked.com/2005/12/19/whiter-shade-of-pale/
http://www.pbase.com/quailpointer/image/15646280
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rickarr/2327730694/
http://shewhoblogs.typepad.com/she_who_blogs/2009/02/twin-albino-deer.html
http://www.canpages.ca/blog/?tag=albino
http://www.arizonaandpacificrr.com/spot/attnw/attnw.html
http://localism.com/wi/boulder_junction

Vanya
March 11, 2009, 11:14 AM
They probably aren't very challenging to hunt, so folks who worry about what's "sporting" might not want to hunt them for that reason. The lack of pigmentation has a bunch of negative effects, apart from coat color.

We had an albino deer on the lease. It was not completely blind, but I could get within 30 yards of it most any time from down wind.

Yep, that's one of them. Albinos of any species (humans included) usually have really poor eyesight. They also tend to go deaf very early in life, or just to have poorer hearing. Don't know how true that is of albino deer, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were. So, hunting sight- and hearing- impaired game...? It seems sort of silly to protect them, but I'll pass on hunting them, myself.

Oh and yeah... there's a lot of research showing that people with very little skin pigmentation are a lot more susceptible to noise-induced hearing loss, so if you blond-haired, blue-eyed folks are gonna hunt them, wear yer E-muffs. :D

kyle663
March 11, 2009, 01:55 PM
true albino deer are protected in Illinois. as well as ablino squirels in one town in southern IL. see a brown spot on the albino deer and its on the wall though.

rantingredneck
March 11, 2009, 02:07 PM
They're not protected here. First I've heard of them being protected anywhere. Interesting. I do not agree with it personally.

I've seen one albino dead in the road. It was freshly killed and the hide was not messed up and I thought for a moment about skinning it out and tanning the hide. I didn't though. Came back through about an hour later on my way home and someone else must have had the same thought as it was gone.

I've seen one alive and on the hoof in a field on the side of the road. I've seen one piebald doe during hunting season. My father in law missed it on the run with a muzzleloader. I killed the buck she was running with. He was stupid enough to stop and look, she kept running......

shortwave
March 11, 2009, 02:50 PM
Have never seen an albino. Have seen a few piebald but never when hunting. They`re not protected here and IMHO, nor should they be.

spacemanspiff
March 11, 2009, 04:22 PM
Heeeeehheheheheh....I'm sorry but at face value, a thread about coloreds vs whites and which is genetically superior is just hilarious.

And no, I'm not racist. I know lots of white people. Continue on with your entertaining thread!

hogdogs
March 11, 2009, 04:29 PM
Spiff, That was a funny way to look at it...
My albino school buddy would laff his butt off when I would tell him my dark hair and skin made me the genetically superior human...:D He did know he faced many obstacles due to his recessive gene.
But he was as sharp as any other person...
Brent