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Firepower!
March 8, 2009, 09:16 AM
Hello again,
I am in market for a 5.56 weapon. I have narrowed my choices down to Galil and AUG. I cannt seem to decide which one to pick. One is conventional and one is bullpup. I think they are pretty good in terms of reliability but not sure which one would be a more welcome to my collection.

What you think or recommend (and why)?

Thank you.

trippingpara
March 8, 2009, 09:44 AM
To me, that's definitely a personal choice. I don't like bullpup designs, so I wouldn't even consider the Aug, but many of my friends love them. However, price is a consideration as well. For a good Galil, you will want an original IMI not the recent Golani from CAI. A preban IMI will run you about $3,500 to $4,500 on GunsAmerica (which tends to be rather high any ways - my local shop has one for $2,800). Augs tend to run for a bit less - about $2,000 (again, my local shop has one for $1,500).

The Galil is definitely heavier than the Aug and is made from stamped metal and a heavier barrel. Meanwhile, the Aug is primarily made from synthetics. My friends claim that they have shot some wonderful groupings with Aug because of the forward grip is much further down the barrel than most traditional forward grips on a rifle. On the other hand, I too have shot some good groups with a Galil. I would go with the IMI Galil but then again, I guess I'm biased as I don't like bullpups.

KChen986
March 8, 2009, 12:39 PM
Since you tend to run around in a convoy of vehicles (judging from your other posts), I'd think the compactness of an AUG will be greatly advantageous in mounting/dismounting your vehicle.

Brian48
March 8, 2009, 01:37 PM
I like the lighter weight and compactness of the AUG. I'd get that if I were able.

Wildalaska
March 8, 2009, 02:56 PM
The AUG is a lousy combat weapon (I I understand it) best suited to ninjawannabes (and I like them and wouldnt feel unarmed with one, just know I could do better)

WildgalilAlaska TM

jughead2
March 8, 2009, 05:56 PM
not in the fa group but the 2 augs i have fired have convinced this old man it would be his choice. maybe they just fit my hands better but there were 4 different brands there and out to 300 yrds i was hands down better with the aug.:D

chilie23
March 8, 2009, 06:15 PM
Galil

Ruthless4christ
March 8, 2009, 08:25 PM
I would go with the galil simply cuz around your neck of the woods , parts for the galil r gonna be alot easier to find.

hknut
March 8, 2009, 09:44 PM
And with the AUG there is always the flinch factor with the muzzle so close to your face.

Firepower!
March 9, 2009, 02:45 AM
A reservation I have with AUG is that it cannot be fired from your weak side. In car, and in situations where firing from your weak side is unavoidable, AUG's bullpup design is a problem.

Cost here:
AUG costs about 10,000$
Galil costs about 4,000$

lt dan
March 9, 2009, 03:36 AM
when i was in the army i used to be an instructor on the south-african variant of the galil the R4. in the few years i served there were very few problems with this rifle. although there must have been other problems the only one i can remember was my own rifle jamming once on the shooting range. it was a competition between the junior officers and the nco's. i was so amazed at this jam that the sergeant-major started laughing.

a lot of our training was done in the desert or semi-desert were sand and dust were a big problem. we never gave our rifles special attention.

i recently watched a movie by the name of "starship troopers 3" in the directors comments section he explained that the assault rifles the troops used was in fact R4's with some body kit over to suit the story line. he went on to say that this, the R4, was one of the most reliable rifles he had come in to contact with.

a former school teacher of mine used to be part of the citizen force of the new sa army and was part of the national masters(over 55 years)shooting team of the army. they often compete against the USA Britain Australia Canada and New Zealand. they have won and lost against all these countries.

so in my opinion the the galil is one of the best assault rifle's. having said that i have no experience of the AUG. for all i know the AUG might be better

Tamara
March 10, 2009, 09:29 AM
The ergonomics on the Galil are mediocre and it weighs a ton. It is reliable.

The ergonomics on the AUG are awful (malf drills and mag changes are awkward and clumsy) and it's light and compact. It is also reliable.

If you gave me one of either, I would thank you politely, wait 'til you left, and then sell it and use the cash to buy an M4.

matolman1
March 10, 2009, 10:13 AM
As an IDF vet, and with extensive usage of the Galil in the early 90's, i would have to say that the Galil is the single finest assault rifle on the planet. It is the AK 47 times 2.
The Israeli's took the AK 47 and made it much better, creating the Galil.

Listen, in combat you want a rifle that will not let you down, is accurate, moderately powerful, easy to handle and somewhat compact.

The Galil has a folding stock for when you are in an armored vehicle.

Hands down, no question, buy the Galil.

Tamara
March 10, 2009, 10:31 AM
If the Galil is so great, why is it only "substitute standard" for Zahal REMFs, while most fighting units use M16's and M4's?

B. Lahey
March 10, 2009, 10:48 AM
Probably because they can buy M16s from us on the cheap and use the production capacity that frees up to make more armored bulldozers, Merkava tanks, and other useful, specialized gear they can't buy from us.

And because there is nothing wrong with the M16, it's all gain for Israel.

Tamara
March 10, 2009, 11:14 AM
And for that matter, the Australian army uses the AUG, but Aussie SAS uses the M4...

ttman
March 10, 2009, 11:38 AM
haven't seen a stamped galil yet. only MILLED ones. maybe u were thinking Valmet (which comes in both flavors)?
The Galil is definitely heavier than the Aug and is made from stamped metal

many M16s were offered for free or for very cheap to Israel. simple economics. but the M16 doesn't take to the dustbowl known as the mid east as well as the AK/Galil guns.
Probably because they can buy M16s from us on the cheap and use the production capacity that frees up to make more armored bulldozers, Merkava tanks, and other useful, specialized gear they can't buy from us.

And because there is nothing wrong with the M16, it's all gain for Israel.

Firepower!
March 10, 2009, 03:07 PM
1. Tamara: I dont see how you find AUG ergonomics aweful. You are not getting one for xmas!
2. I have M4. Its a great gun, but jamming issues are there.
3. Does anyone know what other 5.56 rifles aussies use beside Aug and M4?
4. Cost wise Galil is working out better for me.
5. My dealer has told me that he has an Australian rifle (he doesnt know the name) which has bolt like g3. I am confused as to what in the world is that? Do you know? He claims that is pretty good.

AirForceShooter
March 10, 2009, 03:09 PM
Before you even consider any Bull Pup design shoot one.
They are very different.

AFS

Tamara
March 10, 2009, 09:19 PM
Dude, buy what you want.

You asked for opinions, and you got mine, but it's your money. :)

Firepower!
March 11, 2009, 01:18 AM
Does anyone have any data on how they perform when kept uncleaned?

matolman1
March 11, 2009, 09:53 AM
As mentioned, Israel received a huge quantity of M16's from the USA. It was cheaper to use them than build the Galil.

The Galil will function like the AK47 will function when not in the cleanest form. But, there is no excuse not to clean a rifle every couple of days.

It will work in the rain, it will work in muddy conditions and sandy conditions. But, like any machine, it should be clean and lubed.

Ben

Willie Lowman
March 13, 2009, 08:28 PM
Firepower, You are an AK man.

Get the Galil. It is a 5.56 milled AK. You will like it.

Firepower!
March 19, 2009, 03:50 PM
Willie why do you think I am an AK man. Although I have close to forty AKs.

Willie Lowman
March 19, 2009, 04:16 PM
Ummm... perhaps because you have... close to forty AKs:eek:

No that can't be it. Must be a mistake.:rolleyes:

Creature
March 19, 2009, 04:18 PM
A reservation I have with AUG is that it cannot be fired from your weak side. In car, and in situations where firing from your weak side is unavoidable, AUG's bullpup design is a problem.

Negative. The AUG is an ambidextrous rifle as the bolt is replaceable and the ejection port may be moved to either side of the receiver. Even the carrying strap swivels may be repositioned for convenient port-side carry. Excellent weapon.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/AUG_A1_508mm_04.jpg

http://www.62infantry.com/images/Steyr_AUG_Stripped.jpg



And with the AUG there is always the flinch factor with the muzzle so close to your face.

http://www.military.ie/army/equipment/weapons/inf/steyr/steyr.jpg

??????

Para Bellum
March 19, 2009, 04:38 PM
The AUG is a lousy combat weapon (I I understand it) best suited to ninjawannabes
:barf: never held one obviously.

The AUG gives you a 20" barrel (you need that for getting the best out of the 5,56x45) AND the ability to open doors with your weak hand while aiming or pointing. Can't beat that. It is simply the best combat weapon for ranges from 0,5 to 400m.

A reservation I have with AUG is that it cannot be fired from your weak side
:barf: never held one obviously.

Of course it can! If you had to change hands and eyes (bad idea anyway), all that would happen is a little warm brass that might touch your face. That's absolutely no problem. That changing sides never convinced me anyway. If I have to shoot from a weak heand corner I shoot as always. Makes me a little bigger target, but one that disappears much faster again as if I had to fumble with my weak hand on the trigger and my weak eye in the sight! :eek:

BTW: US Coast Guard uses the AUG. Guess why.

Creature
March 19, 2009, 04:56 PM
Not much difference between the M4 and AUG in terms of OAL:
http://i83.servimg.com/u/f83/12/63/91/01/img_3210.jpg

.351winchester
March 19, 2009, 05:48 PM
"Does anyone know what other 5.56 rifles aussies use beside Aug and M4?
5. My dealer has told me that he has an Australian rifle (he doesnt know the name) which has bolt like g3. I am confused as to what in the world is that? Do you know? He claims that is pretty good."

Leader SAR?

FWIW, I love both but would pick the AUG. The Galil however is the Bentley of Kalashnikovs, a must have for your collection

http://www.imfdb.org/images/9/92/Heat-AK74.jpg

Creature
March 21, 2009, 08:45 AM
Any rifle that was designed with an integral bottle opener is worth a look in my book. And I thought that this Galil sniper rifle is very interesting. That flexible mirage deflector has me wondering though...

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/foreign/galil/sr99.jpg

cookhj
March 21, 2009, 09:50 AM
i've handled both weapons and fired a few rounds from the AUG. i would definately prefer the AUG to most other "assault rifles" out there. the ergos are good, it's quick handling and very controlable in FA.

Tamara
March 22, 2009, 06:44 AM
A reservation I have with AUG is that it cannot be fired from your weak side. In car, and in situations where firing from your weak side is unavoidable, AUG's bullpup design is a problem.
Negative. The AUG is an ambidextrous rifle as the bolt is replaceable and the ejection port may be moved to either side of the receiver.

Ah, so if I have to roll out from behind cover to my left, I'll just real quick-like field strip my weapon.

What hand signal do I give the rest of the guys to say "Cover my sector. I'll be with you in a minute. I need to take a knee and switch my ejection port."? :p

Creature
March 22, 2009, 08:12 AM
Ah, so if I have to roll out from behind cover to my left, I'll just real quick-like field strip my weapon.

Apparently sarcasm isn't your strong suit. The rifle is ambidextrous in that you will already set up your rifle for your preferred side.

Firepower!
March 22, 2009, 12:05 PM
That is not the case. Firing from the weak side means that you have setup your weapon to your strong side and for some reason you must end using on your weak side. AUG does not let you do that. The guy who made comment that I probably never held one doesnt really know what he talking about.

351 I agree.

Creature
March 22, 2009, 01:00 PM
That is not the case. Firing from the weak side means that you have setup your weapon to your strong side and for some reason you must end using on your weak side. AUG does not let you do that. The guy who made comment that I probably never held one doesnt really know what he talking about.

My statement is still correct. The AUG is a completely ambidextrous rifle. What I did not say is that the AUG was "on the fly" ambidextrous. I was very specific about what needs to be done to make the rifle a left side ejector vs a right side ejector.

Firepower!
March 22, 2009, 01:29 PM
True, but the issue of firing from the weak side usually means emergency cases where you have to use your weak side, left or right.

Creature
March 22, 2009, 01:34 PM
Yes, that is a problem that leaves the AUG shooter at a disadvantage.

.351winchester
March 22, 2009, 07:33 PM
Here ya go FP!, your mystery Aussie .223 series:
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=T2_MK5_assault_rifle
http://www.imfdb.org/images/3/37/LeaderT2Mk5Carbine.jpg
Kind of AR-18/180ish, but the bolt knob in HK location.
I remember the semi pistol and carbine being for sale a few years back, IIRC a low prices for pre-89/94 weapons in the years following. I think the pistol was more common than the carbine. I like it. Looks real simple and easy to maintain, though uncommon (though in your case, you have a fine assortment of other stuff to fall back on). I believe it accepts AR mags, unlike some of the Euro .223 rifles of the time frame (HK 93, AUG, AR-70, FNC, etc)

What a great site, IMFDB. Too bad no entry for the movie Normal Life featuring in fact a Galil AR .223 and a blonde, topless Ashley Judd getting freaky with assorted handguns

Tamara
March 22, 2009, 09:48 PM
My statement is still correct. The AUG is a completely ambidextrous rifle. What I did not say is that the AUG was "on the fly" ambidextrous. I was very specific about what needs to be done to make the rifle a left side ejector vs a right side ejector.

It would probably be more accurate to say that the AUG can be configured as a right- or left-handed rifle. A truly ambidextrous rifle could be used from either shoulder with equal facility, no?

JohnKSa
March 22, 2009, 10:06 PM
A reservation I have with AUG is that it cannot be fired from your weak side. In car, and in situations where firing from your weak side is unavoidable, AUG's bullpup design is a problem. Negative. The AUG is an ambidextrous rifle as the bolt is replaceable and the ejection port may be moved to either side of the receiver. Even the carrying strap swivels may be repositioned for convenient port-side carry.The original quote is very specific. It doesn't say the gun can't be fired from the left-hand side, it says the gun can't be fired from the WEAK side. It further makes the point that the issue is not one of a left-hander using the weapon by specifically stating that the problem is when one is put in a position when weak-side fire is unavoidable.

Regardless of whether the person is right or left-handed, the rifle is going to be a problem to fire from the WEAK side assuming that it's been set up to match the shooter.

The fact that it can be readily changed (by disassembly/reassembly) from right to left-hand configuration is not relevant to the original objection.

jonutarr
March 23, 2009, 04:14 AM
Shot about 200 rounds through the AUG over the weekend, functioned great and i really like the bullpup design, when weight closer to your body It helps a lot when carrying it all day the it feels much lighter that a rifle of similar weight
no as good for shooting burst but you can't have everything

And for that matter, the Australian army uses the AUG, but Aussie SAS uses the M4...


Different tools for different jobs & the SAS does use the AUG for certain operations
AUG is better for open areas

Firepower!
March 23, 2009, 04:49 AM
+1 JohnSka
+1 Tamara

351, Its amazing you found that 223 I was looking for. I could not find info on it for a long time. What do you think about it? Its available here in 70% condition.

jughead2
March 23, 2009, 02:26 PM
back when i was practicing a lot and a friend furnished the aug and the ammo. one sunday afternoon showing off a bit i took out 3 beer cans at a measured 400 yards with 5 shots. scoff all you want to i have 2 witnesses. i kept those cans in my shop for several years. still have a rail road spike that i dead centered 100 yards. it did take 6 rounds to do that. couldnt match it with anything else he had. he had five different styles of rifles in 223.:cool:

.351winchester
March 31, 2009, 10:02 PM
firepower, I don't know much about it. Looks pretty solid. Go for it

hank327
March 31, 2009, 10:32 PM
I have owned both an original pre-ban IMI Galil ARM and a pre-ban Steyr AUG. I long ago sold the AUG and I still have the Galil. While the AUG was a neat rifle, I found I didn't like the bullpup layout and the inability to fire the rifle from the weak side. My AUG also had a problem with failures to fire from light strikes to the primers. The Galil is just a refined AK. I have found that the thumb safety on the left side is virtually useless. It is EXTREMELY stiff to move and moves in the wrong direction. Much easier to use the standard safety on the right side than to struggle with the thumb safety. Mine is more accurate than my 7.62 X 39 AKMs. I haven't fired any other 5.56 mm AKs so I really can't say how the Galil compares to them. My Galil is as reliable as my AKMs so I have no complaints there. It is one heck of a pig though weight wise, especially for a 5.56 mm rifle. So of the two, I obviously chose the Galil. However I would choose a 7.62 X 39 mm AKM to take to the field over either a Galil or AUG as it is lighter, fires a more potent round at usual engagement ranges, and is accurate enough for the same.

Firepower!
April 6, 2009, 09:57 AM
Thank you ladies and Gents
I chose Galil SAR 5.56 over AUG.

Will post pictures soon.

aeropb
April 6, 2009, 11:04 PM
augs the better gun before looking at the price.

Firepower!
April 7, 2009, 03:10 AM
351 you are right about Galil being Bentley of Kalshni as we call Kalashnikov here in Pakistan.

Firepower!
April 7, 2009, 03:13 AM
Now next project included L85, FaMAS and G36.

B. Lahey
April 7, 2009, 03:14 AM
I think the Galil is more like the Land Rover of Kalashnikovs, Valmet is the Bentley.:D

Crosshair
April 7, 2009, 12:51 PM
Creature

Not much difference between the M4 and AUG in terms of OAL:

Not to be snarky, but put a 20" barrel on that M4 like the AUG has, then compare.

I have only handed both in the guns store, one concern I had with the Galil was mounting optics. I haven't seen any really good scope mounts or guns with the Soviet side rail. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.:confused:

aeropb
April 7, 2009, 08:47 PM
you should try for a scar

Crosshair
April 7, 2009, 08:52 PM
crosshair you should checkout a vepr. its the highest end ak. comes with a built in side rail and shoots 1.5 moa. available in 308 or 7.62x39
They were too expensive and hard to get when I bought my Saigas. I did try to get one in 7.62x39, but the cost was just oo much vs the Siagas. I paid $250 for my 20" 7.62x39, $340 for my 22" .308, and $225 for my 16" .223. (Try finding those prices now.) Conversion on the 7.62x39 and the .223 didn't break $200 for either one. The 308 is still stock.

Bang for the buck and all that.