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jal5
March 7, 2009, 01:03 PM
I am trying to restore, to some degree at least, an old pistol, 32 acp, a 1908 Bayard "pocket pistol". I need to find a screw for the plastic grip, not such a problem I would guess. But the lack of maintenance took a toll: minor rust on outside frame and some pitting on outside of slide, near the muzzle. Any ideas of how to proceed? Internally its not bad, dirty as heck but no pitting/rusting. I think the rust externally resulted from storage in the leather holster over the years in damp conditions. Not a valuable gun just want to get it looking better.
Thanks,

Joe

Dingoboyx
March 7, 2009, 01:17 PM
What is its finish? blue, brown or nickle plate?

Lurch37
March 7, 2009, 01:27 PM
I like using a product called Flitz on blued guns when dealing with light rusting. I have also used #0000 Steel Wool very carefully. Take your time and be very patient. The Flitz is a polishing paste the does a great job of cleaning and polishing of blued surfaces.

As for the pitting, I'm not sure what you can do with that other than to clean up around it as best as you can. The pitting will always be present to some degree.

jal5
March 7, 2009, 04:31 PM
I forgot to tell you what finish...blued. I thought about Flitz but wasn't sure if it would take off the blueing?

What about trying to buff out some of the pitting with a dremel or other machine tool?

jmf
March 7, 2009, 06:11 PM
Before you do anything else, try soaking it overnight in WD40 or kerosene. Afterwards you should be able to wipe away a good deal of rust a rough rag.

James K
March 7, 2009, 11:48 PM
FWIW, I like a product called G96 Gun Treatment for rust removal, and brass or copper (not steel) wool. You can get brass and copper wool at the local super market in the kitchen wares area; it is used for scrubbling pots and pans.

Be careful with the grips; if they are original, they are not plastic, but rather a natural product called hard rubber or gutta percha. That substance grows very brittle over time and can break very easily.

Jim

Casimer
March 8, 2009, 01:17 AM
I've been able to remove raised spots of rust using a penny.

But I'd avoid a high speed rotary tool, like a dremel. You could very easily polish through the bluing.

There's also a product named Renaissance Metal De-Corroder that's like a museum-grade naval jelly. It's relatively mild and slow acting, but the advantage is that you have a lot of control over the decorrosion process, and it neutralizes w/ water. It'll remove rust from pitting and it stabilizes the surface to prevent further corrosion - though you'd want to apply a protectant as well, to seal the metal. http://www.restorationproduct.com/mainproducts.html

JohnKSa
March 8, 2009, 02:23 AM
0000 steel wool used dry and dusted out frequently will remove the rust without harming the blueing.

The steel wool won't hurt the blueing unless you really get vigorous. Carding the finish with very fine steel wool is actually one of the steps in the blueing process. The problem is that the rust particles are abrasive and if you rub them around on the finish they will damage it.

So keep the surface and the steel wool dry (so the particles won't stick) and dust everything off frequently--at least every few strokes.

Steel wool has some oil in it to keep it from rusting. I've never had a problem in this regard, but if you notice the rust sticking to the steel wool, you can wash it out with a degreasing cleaner like gunscrubber to remove the oil and prevent the rust particles from sticking to it.

Tom2
March 8, 2009, 07:59 AM
YOu can remove the surface rust but the pitting is permanent. If you try to cover it up it will show thru. Once you remove the surface rust, well you can just keep it oiled or something and arrest it from further deterioration. That is about it.

HisSoldier
March 8, 2009, 10:35 AM
Jal5, here's a site that shows how to remove rust without effecting bluing. Simple and cheap. I assume the gun needs to be absolutely clean of oil. You could try it on a blued part first, a bad part from a gunsmith maybe.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=62728

filthysavage
March 11, 2009, 04:30 PM
Try using muratic acid on rusted metal.But do it outside.O man does it work.Brush it on full strength and leave it sit for a hour.It will eat all the rust right off.But there will be pitting,no getting around it.Wash it off real well with water then neutralize with baking soda(lye is better)You must neutralize!Take all springs out of the gun or they will break.

dogzilla
March 19, 2009, 12:41 AM
first..

DISASSEMBLE THE GUN

PUT ALL THE PARTS IN A BOWL SO YOU DONT LOOSE THEM

>I need to find a screw for the plastic grip

# PLASTIC WASNT INVENTED IN 1903..

ITS BONE OR BAKELITE (or some early similar product)

THE POINT TO THAT IS IF THEY ARE ORIGINAL GRIPS, THEY ARE GOING
TO BE VERY BRITTLE.. BE VERY CAREFULL TIGHTING A NEW SCREW ONTO THEM


THIS IS A TOTAL REFINISH.. DONT WORRY
ABOUT SURFACE BLEMISH..YOU NEED TO GET A GOOD POLISHING BUFFER
ONTO THAT METAL AND TAKE IT DOWN A FEW THOUSANDTHS ON THE
OUTTER SURFACES...TO BARE MIRROR SHINNY METAL...

RESEARCH THE INTERNET ON POLISHING PROPERLY... ITS A SCIENTIFIC ART..
AND ITS GOT STEPS THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED.

DO NOT POLISH DOWN ANY BEARING SURFACES, (SURFACES THAT MATE TO
ANOTHER SURFACE FOR TIGHT FIT) JUST LIGHTLY REMOVE THE PATINA TILL
METAL SHOWS..EVENLY..

you could take the pieces to a local machine shop and they would proably
polish them for $10

soak all the moving parts in one of the reccomended methods people have posted here...

after its all together and functional agian.. have you local smitty look it over
and see if he can tweak it anywere for better action...

BE CAREFULL WHEN SHOOTING IT... IT WAS NOT DESIGNEED FOR TODAYS
HI POWER LOADS !!!!!! YOU COULD EXPLODE IT WITH THEM...

OH.. DONT FORGET TO GIVE IT A NICE BLUE OR BROWN FINISH.. YOU CAN GET THE KIT AT ALMOST ANY GUN SECTION ...THE COLD BLUE AND WARM BROWING KITS DO VERY NICELY... AND THEIR CHEAP..

Bill DeShivs
March 19, 2009, 01:20 AM
He said MINOR RUST. This is not cause to suggest muriatic acid, naval jelly, or buffers!
0000 steel wool, used lightly, is what should be used.
The grips are not bone. They may possibly be pressed cow horn, but are more likely gutta percha.

Doyle
March 19, 2009, 07:19 AM
This gun may be a candiate for GunKote. I've seen some really poor looking guns brought back to life with a GunKote finish.

Wuchak
March 19, 2009, 09:42 AM
Evapo-Rust
http://www.evaporust.com/

I'd call them and check before putting a blued gun in it though, just to be safe. There is a story online of a guy who documented the abuse of his Glock then buried it in the garden for a few years. He has pictures of it coming out of the ground and then after spending the night in Evapo-Rust. It was amazingly effective.

Keep steel wool away from your guns. Small pieces of it break off and embed themselves and then rust quickly. Use bronze wool instead if needed.

Bill DeShivs
March 19, 2009, 02:47 PM
Steel wool doesn't imbed in gun steel. You should, however, clean it all off when finished. Bronze wool is fine, too.

Wuchak
March 28, 2009, 12:32 AM
I was thinking of stainless. Steel wool with stainless guns is a big no-no unless you want a rusty stainless steel gun : ). Bronze will will do everything steel will for cleaning purposes like this and there's no risk.

Bill DeShivs
March 28, 2009, 01:08 AM
Steel wool won't imbed in stainless, either. Myth.

bamafan4life
March 28, 2009, 01:34 AM
i agree about not putting the screw for the grips on tight. put blue locktite (dont use red unless ur plannin on keepin that screw in there tight for 1000 years) and just get it snug. i use steel wool on my guns and a old toothbrush (if its really bad i pull out a wire brush) and a differnt gun oil every time (i bought a gun kit that has hundreds of bottles of oils in it from a guy a few years ago) but if u dont have nuthing else 3 in 1 oil will work. or good ol wd-40 will work.

Chris_B
March 28, 2009, 06:59 AM
>I need to find a screw for the plastic grip

# PLASTIC WASNT INVENTED IN 1903..

ITS BONE OR BAKELITE (or some early similar product)

You're 100% right. Plastic was not invented in 1903. The History of plastic in the USA began in 1878, with the advent of celluloid (cellulose nitrate). It's how Eastman (remember Eastman Kodak?) made the first motion picture in 1882. It was originally developed for replacing Ivory in billiard balls, in case anyone feels celluloid was a weak plastic.

Plastics actually debuted in 1862, with a product called Parkesine, and it was in Europe

The first patent for phenolics was issued before 1900. There's a lot of different plastics, but Bakelite wasn't around until 1907, and Bakelite was the first widespread success story for plastics. PVC was also around before 1900, which might surprise folks. It wasn't patented until around 1913 though and it wasn't a worthwhile product for some dozen more years

But plasticizers were being used in 1903 and for decades before that. Just a general FYI :)

Chris_B
March 28, 2009, 07:02 AM
i agree about not putting the screw for the grips on tight. put blue locktite (dont use red unless ur plannin on keepin that screw in there tight for 1000 years)

Don't use loctite on plastics. It may eat them. Make sure it will not damage your plastic first! :)

bamafan4life
March 28, 2009, 06:27 PM
yea locktite might eat the grips. puting elmers glue on the screw will keep it in there and easy to unscrew to.

Chris_B
March 28, 2009, 09:37 PM
Good idea on the Elmers, I never thought of that. I would have suggested nail polish actually; I used to use that to keep the oil from wicking up the head studs on my hot rod's engine, but the Elmers seems like a much better choice for a gun, thanks for the tip :)

guntotin_fool
March 28, 2009, 10:27 PM
amazing to me how many people do not read the whole OP.

Minor rust, some 0000 steel wool used dry or dipped in something like Hoppe's as long as its a blue finish. Nickel plating (which he did say it was not) can be damaged by using Hoppe's by the ammonia eating away the underlying bonding plate of the finish.

Keep the steel wool fresh and it will work over time. Use compressed air or a good natural fiber paint brush to remove the debris. If you have some fading on the edges of the gun, a good cold blue from Brownells will work to touch up what you have. then re oil the gun.

Call brownells about the grip screw, they very possibly have one in stock.

B.L.E.
March 29, 2009, 12:23 AM
Do not use Naval Jelly or similar chemicals. These chemicals are strong reducing agents, they actually take the oxygen away from iron oxide and turn it back into iron again. Since bluing is a form of oxidation, it also will un-blue the steel turning it white. I learned this the hard way.

An expert gun appraiser once told me that if you want to ruin a gun's collector's value, go ahead and have it re-blued and have the stock re-finished.

Chris_B
March 29, 2009, 07:33 AM
No point in discussing, post deleted

Bill DeShivs
March 29, 2009, 01:04 PM
I'm sure that refinishing that Colt WILL seriously reduce it's market value.
BTW- it's not rusty.

Chris_B
March 29, 2009, 02:02 PM
No point in discussing, post deleted

JohnKSa
March 29, 2009, 03:40 PM
I think you should show the gun to a serious collector in its current state to get his opinion. I think you'll be surprised at what he says.

Chris_B
March 29, 2009, 05:27 PM
No point in discussing, post deleted

HisSoldier
March 29, 2009, 05:55 PM
Having the advantage of having seen and handled jal5's Bayard I do believe I would use Bill DeShivs suggestion. A bit of very fine steel wool and some gun oil and careful elbow grease action. jal5's gun is a family heirloom and it's right on the cusp between needing that or refinishing.

Chris_B
March 29, 2009, 06:05 PM
How about a photo or ten? :) Not a commonly seen pistol