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View Full Version : CCW When you Ride... Paranoia?


jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 08:02 PM
I just got my dirtbike fixed and plan on taking back woods riding trips with my pops. I'm a little concerned about getting my bike stolen at gun point or rushed by a bear/moose... Would carrying my USP be an un-needed risk (Injury) because i'm being paranoid? Or is there a good enough chance that i'll need to defend myself up on the back-wood trails? I'm especially worried about having a breakdown or something and having to walk alone to get assistance.

Brian Pfleuger
March 3, 2009, 08:05 PM
My initial assessment is mild paranoia but I don't know your area.

I wouldn't be worried about animals at all. If those sorts of thefts have happened in your area then, by all means, carry away. Just put it someplace where you won't land on it.

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 08:09 PM
WOW I used the term paranoia for the 2 legged critters. HMMM, I thought my biggest worry would be a Mother bear or Male Moose! I'm in North Eastern Washington. Well I didn't really plan on doing it, and it seems like i'm just worrying about nothing. I've never trail ridden before so I don't know what to expect. I'll just rely on the old guns *Flexes Muscles* lol.

hoytinak
March 3, 2009, 08:11 PM
When I ride the 4-wheelers I still carry IWB like to do any other time.

#18indycolts
March 3, 2009, 08:13 PM
I'm a little concerned about getting my bike stolen at gun point or rushed by a bear/moose...

and where do you ride? Remind me NOT to ride where I have to worry about thieves AND scary wildlife!:)

kraigwy
March 3, 2009, 08:16 PM
I dont ride motor bikes but I do ride horses. I'm not really conserned about mother moose or father bear getting me.

How ever I do live in snake country and they like to hang out where I ride. I still keep my 642 in my pocket, but during season, the first two rounds lined up are snake/bird shot.

I'm not a good enough pistol shoot to shoot snakes in the head from a dancing horse, but snake shot does work quite well.

I do wonder out into moose/bear country but normally while I'm hunting. My pistol stays in my pocket because I have my rifle.

partemisio
March 3, 2009, 08:18 PM
I carry everywhere I legally can. You never know who you might encounter.

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 08:26 PM
and where do you ride? Remind me NOT to ride where I have to worry about thieves AND scary wildlife!

Well there's not really any public motocross tracks, so my dad suggested we find some state land and go "Tear it up" but people also get drunk and "Camp" out there too so i was just concerned about some drunk guy making me hand over my Kawi... That would suck.

#18indycolts
March 3, 2009, 09:11 PM
so i was just concerned about some drunk guy making me hand over my Kawi...

hey, screw the drunk guy...its yer bike, right?! Run his hillbilly face over with yer knobbies!

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 09:14 PM
hey, screw the drunk guy...its yer bike, right?! Run his hillbilly face over with yer knobbies!

THANKS FOR THAT!!! Now i'm cleaning Coffee off of my Boss's PC Screen. (LOL My computer sucks so I use hers after she goes home. She doesn't care usually but i'll have a tough time explaining why her Keyboard smells like French Vanilla)

Buckskinner Bart
March 3, 2009, 09:18 PM
It is always better to have your weapon and not need it than need it and not have it!


all who wander are not lost.

Ifishsum
March 3, 2009, 09:22 PM
I agree with partemisio - it's not about paranoia at all, I just like being prepared for whatever (yes I was a Boy Scout). Until I can see into the future to know when something bad might happen, I carry wherever I legally can. Most things happen when and where you least expect them - but chances are you'll never need it.

gotguns?
March 3, 2009, 09:23 PM
Around my area I carry In the woods on my bike or horse. There are a good number of meth lab busts around here so I worry about stumbling over some meth head while riding. so when I go riding i take out the .38 specials and load the sp101 up with .357 mags.

SigfanTN
March 3, 2009, 09:26 PM
I'm with partemisio on this one. I got the permit so I could legally carry. And I legally carry...Everywhere it is legal:)

Wouldn't you just kick yourself if you happened to to have that miniscule chance you might need it happen when you didn't have it for fear of seeming paranoid? :barf:

If your worried about injury by falling on it, how about putting it in a backpack or something?

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 09:31 PM
how about putting it in a backpack or something?

That's the kind of answer I was looking for! I'm really worried about falling on it and breaking my hip or back I plan on riding hard so if i don't dump it then i'm not trying. I'll go find a nice tight fitting backpack tonight.

Tamara
March 3, 2009, 09:32 PM
Y'know, I find it's easier to just carry all the time, period. My crystal ball is in the shop.

Besides, "paranoid"? What does a gun have to do with being paranoid? It's just a gun; not a voodoo charm or a pet rattlesnake or something. It's no big deal. Just because you put a belt on this morning doesn't mean you're paranoid and obsessed about your trousers falling down, does it?

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 09:39 PM
No not at all. I just don't want to be viewed as a "the sky is falling!" gun nut that thinks i'm always going to be in a gun fight. Now, I will say that it's a ridiculous statement, but I am constantly being told "Dude we're just going riding, put the gun away." I remind my buddies that bad things happen all the time, but they still give me that "Look". That's why in the title I wrote Paranoia with a question mark. I've often wondered when is it appropriate to carry. Some say All the time, others say only when you think you'll need it. I tend to fall closer to the Let's bring it just incase group. I love having it with me. I guess i'm just worried about how socially acceptable it is to be wearing a helmet, chest pads, and a gun. I'd never forget the first two, so why the last?

ihctractor
March 3, 2009, 09:52 PM
I ride dirt and street and I carry IWB the same as I normally do any other time. I don't worry about falling on it and getting hurt because I figure if I go down that hard its going to hurt anyway, just make sure you have a properly fit holster with some kind of retention.
As far as full grown moose and bears, unless you commit to carrying a full size .44 magnum you'll likely just p1$$ them off if you shoot one:)

Tamara
March 3, 2009, 09:52 PM
Some say All the time, others say only when you think you'll need it.

Dude, if I think I'll need it, I just stay home. :o

orionengnr
March 3, 2009, 09:53 PM
I don't know how you ride.
I am now 50+ but have been riding my whole life. When I was younger, I rode dirt bikes (and street bikes, and race bikes) like a fool. Seems that I could never go 30 minutes without crashing. Best part about it was, being young and in good shape, I'd just get up, dust myself off, laugh, kick-start the beast and wheelie away.

And man oh man, have I got the scars, aches and pains to prove it.

But I'm still riding. :)

pax
March 3, 2009, 09:58 PM
If you find a way to keep it concealed, you never have to worry about social pressure to leave it home.

pax

Re4mer
March 3, 2009, 09:58 PM
Hey man I'm with you on carrying in the woods. We all saw deliverance :eek: and guns in the woods are a good thing.... LOL

Webleymkv
March 3, 2009, 10:04 PM
I don't think it's paranoid at all. In my area, people who partake in less that lawful activity and who usually don't appreciate witnesses to their passtimes often choose to carry out their nefarious recreation in remote wooded areas.

Greg_TX
March 3, 2009, 10:07 PM
Carrying on my motorcycle is, among other things, a significant reason for my plan to get a CHL. I plan to keep it in my tank bag along with the GPS, duct tape, phone, etc. It's typical for me to be on a highway or farm-market road in the middle of nowhere - whichever direction the ride takes me. If something were to happen out there they might not find me for weeks, if ever. My bike will outrun everything but a radio, but I have to stop for gas sometime. The nice thing is that my riding gloves fit the grip and trigger guard of my .40 M&P perfectly. :)

But trouble's gotta catch me first:
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff337/grendel_99/zzr-small.jpg

jesus5150
March 3, 2009, 10:46 PM
Wow, pretty bike! Love to hear from my Kawasaki Brethren! Ok so, I'm on a dirtbike with riding pants, gloves, big heavy helmet and goggles, and a chest plate. My options are pretty much only to have it in my backpack. But if I were to need it, could I get to it in time? I don't have a belt so i'm not sure where else to put it... Any other cool ideas?

You can't see it very well, but that's what it looks like, no packs or zipper slots lol.

(Ignore my Beater winter truck and the ugly horse stable.)

Tamara
March 3, 2009, 10:50 PM
Maybe a fanny pack? Good place to keep a wallet and stuff when riding, too.

garryc
March 3, 2009, 10:59 PM
Why the CCW carry? Out in the woods I carry open. In your case I'd carry a stainless 357 in a vertical shoulder rig, on the outside of my cloths. Maybe in a vertical full flap if your in mud. As far as a big critter, if you need it you don't want it buried.

Sevens
March 3, 2009, 11:01 PM
This is a no-brainer, IMO.
If you have a carry permit, you want to carry as much as legally allowed. If it were me, my biggest worry would be finding a way to affix it to the dirtbike or my person where it won't come out, fall off, or otherwise separate from me. Carrying on my person is fine on a motorcycle... but NOT a dirt bike or 4-wheeler when tearing up trails. Trail riding means that you might get tossed. You aren't riding hard if there's no chance for you to get tossed, it's part of the game. You don't want to land on it, and you don't want it to fall off your person and you don't want it to have a chance to somehow discharge or get damaged.

I'd find a secure way to attach it to the bike.

I wouldn't be worried about any kind of an animal while on a dirt bike. The noise would keep most of them away. The speed and power will get you away from the threat. Unless you are off taking a leak, I just don't see animals being a problem. Drunks or crazy hill-jacks, perhaps, but even then, your best bet is to flee. Any decent dirt bike makes you *GONE* in seconds. Not much on earth that can catch one through the woods.

My final bit: The biggest reason I'd want the carry gun with me while out trail riding is because I want it with me when I'm away from my home, and there's few things in this world I hate as much as leaving a handgun in my car. A handgun in the car is a potential stolen handgun. There's a very few people who have a serious safe that's through-bolt mounted to the frame, but most folks simply have the little metal box with the cable. It'll stop the smash & grab teenage punk who steals CDs, stereos and change from the ashtray, but anyone with a couple of tools is going to take that box. Hell, if they SEE that box, they are going to REALLY want that box. And if your car or truck is sitting next to the woods out in the sticks, they really have the time and space to make sure that little metal box leaves with them.

vox rationis
March 3, 2009, 11:03 PM
Personally, if I was out biking in the back woods, I'd carry, most probably concealed in a fanny pack, but if it was real back woods with little chance of other people to be around I'd probably open carry. Anyway, better to have and not need, then to need and not have type of thing as far as I'm concerned. Especially since you'll be pretty much on your own.

R1145
March 3, 2009, 11:07 PM
...I think being armed is a way of life, or a mindset. So, yes, I would carry.

Some comments:

- Only carry if it is legal for you to do so;

- When you carry, your own behavior must be above reproach. Obviously, no drinking, drugs, fighting, etc.

- You mention "tearing up some State land...". That doesn't sound too responsible. I would not carry if I was going to engage in any illegal activity, and there are plenty of rules to follow when riding.

Finally, it always makes me smile when I read about the hardy outdoorsmen needing to get strapped when going into the boonies. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! The further you get from the parking lot, the safer you are.

I think the main threat is still the two-legged critters. Grizzly country might change the equation, but I think any weapon one would reasonably carry for self-defense would be adequate. Not for hunting, mind you, just for saving your life.

Can anyone cite a case where a person was killed by an animal after defensively using a handgun, any handgun?

Leave the poor snakes alone...

Greg_TX
March 3, 2009, 11:08 PM
There may be a way you secure a leather bag or something similar on your handlebars, maybe. Carrying on a bike presents some unique problems; in your case you bounce off a tree, in my case I slide 100' down the road or off into a ditch. Either way, carrying a gun on your person can be a bad thing if you go down. A fanny pack or backpack would probably be two reasonable solutions, but quick access is a problem.

... for some reason I'm thinking of that biker in Raising Arizona - now THAT's a way to carry!

Buzzcook
March 3, 2009, 11:47 PM
Tracks in Washington State http://www.hometownmotocross.com/htmxtrackdata/statetracklist/watracklist.html

http://www.toesmxp.com/

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/35284_cycles16.shtml

Basically if you can't find a place to ride your bike in Washington you aren't looking

Don't people google anymore?

If you see a bear, or any other animal, while out on a motor bike I'll be very surprised.
I have yet to have seen a bear in the wild and I've hunted (Not for bear) and hiked all over Washington.

As far as bad guys, I don't think they're waiting in the wild to jack you and your bike.

jesus5150
March 4, 2009, 12:04 AM
when i say tear up state land, i mean that figuratively. Dad wanted to go somewhere without a beaten down motocross trail. Somewhere i'll have to work around downed trees and creeks. It's totally legal where we go.


But i think i'll try to find an easy way to attach it to the bike, or just put it in the camel pack and make it readily avail.

Stevie-Ray
March 6, 2009, 08:16 PM
I'm especially worried about having a breakdown or something and having to walk alone to get assistance.This is pretty much why I carry a 10mm in the Hiawatha National Forest. The "roads" from the main drag to where my relatives are are all pretty much 12 miles of winding dirt and gravel, not much better than a two-track. I figure I could have 6-8 miles of walking in a worst-case scenario, as cell phones are questionable at best in this area. And I've been vacationing there since long before cell phones. The mountains of Tennessee are another favorite vacation area with the same problems, though last time I noticed decent cell-phone reception. I always carried my Colt Delta Elite, but will now switch to the smaller and more carry-friendly Glock 29 that I got for Christmas. You're not paranoid, just cautious. Just brush off any naysayers, telling them they can do whatever they want.

troy_mclure
March 6, 2009, 11:00 PM
jesus5150, i ride dirt and street too, i used to just keep my xd in my camelbak, but a guy i ride with has a nifty pouch attached to his chest protector, he carries sigma in it. he is even wreckier than me(thats alot!), and has never been injured by it, or had it come out/off. it also Velcro's onto his tank bag for his street bike.

Willie Lowman
March 6, 2009, 11:33 PM
If you carry a gun when you ride, carry it where you can draw it.

If it is in a tight fitting camel pack sorta thing your gun is going to be 5 seconds to late.

I ride mountain bikes (sometimes) in places where the city folk don't lurk. One day I stopped on the trail to relieve myself, only to find (with the wrong gun in hand) that I was standing about 6 feet from a timber rattler. The snake and I made and unspoken agreement not to bite each other and we went our separate ways. I realized that my gun being in that little pouch on my back was worth ****all when the pack wasn't off my back and in my hand.

Whiteboy67
March 7, 2009, 12:50 AM
Hehe, not going to lie I never even thought about carrying while in the woods. It doesn't seem THAT paranoid because the woods where I ride with friends on my KX250F is pretty, uh, sketchy. It's a forest land, but there are some houses near the entrance to the forest and since they're in the middle of nowhere I'm assuming they don't like people all that much. Also we've seen some scary people up there...one guy was balls deep in the woods walking around by himself. We saw him and just went the other figuring it wouldn't be smart to mess with someone in the middle of the woods walking by himself. If I did carry, I'd put a small handgun into my camelback where I shove my handheld GPS/food/knife/small rope.

tshadow6
March 7, 2009, 09:07 AM
My favorite motto is."It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." If you can legally CCW, then go ahead and do it. Every day, as often as you can. You never know when the Bad Guy is going to show up. Caliber, make and model are NOT important.

Re4mer
March 7, 2009, 09:34 AM
In all seriousness I agree with all the guys who said you should carry. It makes sense and if you choose not to and something awful happened you would never forgive yourself.

Maromero
March 7, 2009, 10:42 AM
"Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion."

If you want to CC b/c you want to be prepared in case the need to defend yourself arises or because there are a bunch of zombies, aliens or madmen out to get you?

scorpion_tyr
March 7, 2009, 10:59 AM
I don't ride, but not keeping it attached to your body sounds like a pretty good idea to me. The hard part will be finding a balance between easy to get to and safety.

I do agree with everyone who said you should carry. You never know when or where you'll need to protect yourself or your loved ones. Look at all the people who have been attacked by mountain lions and such while riding bikes. Read about the case of Mr. Harold Fish. He was hiking in Arizona when he stumbled upon a bad situation.

Statistically, you're probably safer from BG's in the woods, but there's still a chance, and as long as there's a chance and you legally can carry... then by all means carry.

okiebuckout
March 7, 2009, 11:37 AM
I think your best bet for accessibility and not being on your person, is to get saddlebags for your tank. Its right in front of you for accessing it, and you don't have to worry about landing on it if you get tossed. I would keep it in a holster inside the saddlebag also.

grymster2007
March 7, 2009, 12:22 PM
Not paranoid! Just carrying another tool.

Be happy that you can carry. Here in Cali, I'm pretty well restricted to no carry.... but I can open carry in the national forest... one of the places I'd least likely need a gun. Go figure. :mad:

So when I am in the national forest on one of my motorcycles or my quad, I do enjoy strapping a sixgun on my hip. :)

seaville
March 7, 2009, 02:43 PM
I regularly ride my 4 wheeler on the farm for work and play. I always have a long gun on the vehicle, and usually have a side arm.
A few years ago wild dogs were a problem. On one ocassion I spotted 8 in one pack. I was on foot, I had to hide to avoid them.
On another I was face to face with two small dogs, I was unarmed. They growled and showed their teeth. I threw rocks and yelled, but they held their ground. I probably could have taken them, but the bites and them possibly being rabid crossed my mind. I retreated and went for my rifle. They were gone when I returned.
Dogs are no longer a problem, but there's plenty coyotes, also cougers have been spotted in my area.
So I carry

relee
March 7, 2009, 11:12 PM
When I used to ride I was younger and didn't have any handguns but I always carried a possibles kit for breakdowns. A gun would fit in with the rest of the tools. After trial and a lot of error I found a fanny pack worn backwards so the pouch was in the front was the best solution. In a crash you could tuck and roll normally and if it comes loose you notice it pretty quick. You can move around on the bike as usual. Some of the latest types I have seen have a seperate pocket for easy gun access.

Keep it shiny side up!

Bob

gedenke
March 16, 2009, 11:37 PM
I have a solution to your problem, J. This way you won't have to interrupt your ride when dealing with those pesky drunken pot-growing northern bearoose types! (J/K) :D Sorry...couldn't resist! Seriously, though, I like relee's idea.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/gedenke/meankawi.jpg

Huntergirl
March 16, 2009, 11:44 PM
Not paranoia. Better to have one and not need it than......

jesus5150
March 18, 2009, 12:00 AM
So I experimented with a side pocket... I have a side pocket on my thigh that sit's like cargo pants and it fits in there. I Dumped it 4 times last weekend (it was rain/snowing so the ground was like wet play-doh) and my impact points are on my hips and shoulders, rarely my knees, and I almost ALWAYS contact the small of my back. (Because my powerband is crazy in higher gears so I love 3rd gear! That being said, when I go down i'm MOVIN! and I end up rolling.) So I am looking for a nice pair of riding pants that have a leg pocket or a way to put something on my chest would be great too!!!! but if my USP isn't covered, it WILL get dirt on it. How does mud affect a gun such as my USP? I won't ride in sand so that's out, just mud and grass.

mtnm
March 18, 2009, 12:16 AM
My husband carries in the woods because of man and beast and carries in church because we live in a crazy world. He has never needed his except for hunting.

I fell off my horse and landed on my glock and could not walk for 6 weeks. :D

Thinking of a shoulder holster or maybe a saddlebag or saddle attachment. One guy carries his on the front of his saddle. That works if the horse does not run off.

Sometimes people get shot accidently - I wonder about that in a wreck too?
My cop friend in Mancos Colorado shot himself in the backcountry when his gun fell off the dashboard of his truck. ouch.

Happy trails and stay safe.

Casimer
March 18, 2009, 12:27 AM
something on my chest would be great too

Have you looked at chest holsters? - http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&um=1&q=chest+holster&btnG=Search+Images

BTW I'm all for woods carry. The hairiest situations that I've encountered have involved dangerous strangers in the woods.

JasonG
March 18, 2009, 01:26 PM
Try www.safepacker.com
I had something similar to sarry my pda in.
Carry on body not on bike, same issues as a briefcase/purse/folder holster.
As for being paranoid, have you been keeping up with the changes to the NPS (national park service) weapon laws?
After a few incidents culminating with a murder on the AP trail, CC is now legal if your state allows carry in state parks.
Apparently the guvmint is as paranoid as you are.
Member of the "Pants on = gun on" club. Now offering, for a limited time, free memberships !

grymster2007
March 18, 2009, 01:35 PM
I Dumped it 4 times last weekend You must be a youngster. Us old guys try to keep the shiny side up. :)

vox rationis
March 18, 2009, 11:10 PM
I love this whole "paranoia" sophistry. Society at large has been sold a bill of rotten goods by a bunch of befuddled lemmings. Mankind has been going out in the wilderness armed ever since the advent of the opposing thumb and a sophisticated enough brain to use it. It takes an especially "advanced" individual these days to convince himself that being essentially helpless constitutes a superior mindset. ;)

Of course the concrete wilderness is often even more dangerous, giving the "cultural elites" amongst us even greater chances to demonstrate the trendy but confused notion that preparedness is paranoia.

Old Wanderer
March 22, 2009, 08:10 PM
I am an old guy that still rides a lot. (Own 7 bikes) . I also own more than a few guns...Why would I want to own a hand gun and have a CCW if I did not use it.

Sort of like that old pilots saying...nothing more useless than the runway behind you...same with a gun when you need it and it is setting safe at home.

MrNiceGuy
March 22, 2009, 08:16 PM
Y'know, I find it's easier to just carry all the time, period. My crystal ball is in the shop.

MINE TOO!

those damned lazy repairmen, always taking forever fixing our crystal balls O_o
dont they know i'm in need of seeing the future NOW
i guess they figured i'd have already looked into the future and had seen my need, so i would already have a backup in waiting... but alas, even with my crystal ball, i just wasnt thinking that far ahead.

bottom line, carry.
i try not to shop, live, or visit places where i have to worry about defending myself, but if it were that simple, then nobody would ever carry unless looking for conflict.

zonamo
March 22, 2009, 09:10 PM
I don't think the link in the post above works. Safepacker's are sold by Wilderness Tactical: Safepacker Holster (http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=70_51).

I have been using one for a couple years now-it attaches well to a pack or a web belt for hiking. They also have an accessory that turns it into a running pack, but not sure I'd want it in small of back for jogging much less while off-road riding. You could probably come up with a way to strap it down for your purposes.

Here's a pic from the link

http://store.thewilderness.com/images/zip567.jpg

BMSMA
March 28, 2009, 05:13 PM
Kawasaki all the way. (1979 Kawasaki KZ 400)

My opinion would be--you can't use what you don't have, if you have what you need you will be prepared.

Always remember think smart and act safe.