PDA

View Full Version : Replica Percussion Revolver Manufacturers


bprevolver
February 22, 2009, 01:15 PM
For several years I have been trying to find out if anyone knows any of the following manufacturer's logo or markings.

PR Usually on the butt of FIE brass frame revolvers.

COM Found on several revolvers. Only other markings are the proofs and "Made in Italy".

DOM Same marking as found on COM revolvers.

MOFRA This has been found on Patersons sold by Replica Arms.

Two elongated Diamonds with side points touching. Also found on Replica Arms.

arcticap
February 22, 2009, 07:00 PM
I try to gleen hints of information from several reference pages in order to try to speculate which outfit any initials or markings might represent.
These pages include:

Gunsmiths in Italy 1945-1980:

http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/armieri.htm

Tradenames and Brands of Guns and Gunsmakers:

http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/brand_m.htm

Marchi commerciali USA - Trade names of pistols and guns:

http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/marchiusa.htm

Codes from the National Crime and Information Center (NCIC) 2000 standard:

http://www.ncsconline.org/D_Tech/wayfarer/showtype.asp?id=365

Assuming that the marks are Italian, my guess is that PR may represent either "PATRO di Palama Roberto - Verdello 1976" or "Pierino Ruschetta"

DOM shows up as "Dorman" on the NCIC list, but the information for Dorman's country of origin on the brands page is completely blank [ "Dorman - "].
So COM and DOM is still wide open for speculation. Just because NCIC assigns initials to a company doesn't mean that another individual or company couldn't have used the same initials.
For instance, one gunsmith's name ending with "M" that may correspond to COM is:

Cosimo Mezzolla - Sava (Taranto) 1969

However the origin of MOFRA seems to be very definitive on the Italian gunsmith page:

MOFRA di Mainardi A. - Brescia 1971

If there's a need to translate something on these pages from Italian to English, I use the free translation website at www.freetranslation.com :)

arcticap
March 2, 2009, 11:09 PM
Another listing for MOFRA is in small case letters and states:

Mofra (Mononi Gino)

http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/armieri.htm

sebou
September 15, 2010, 11:38 AM
hi all
BPrevovler this is what i found :

EIE :
hotgun was distrubuted by Excam Importers located in Hialeah, Florida. They have been out of buisness since around 1990. The owner was Tom Excam who built up the buisness importing and distributing mostly low quality inexpensive firearms. The only thing that I can tell you about your gun is that it is made in Italy by Faush Stefano but nothing else, I checked all my references and nothing on it came up

Read more: http://shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19889&start=0#ixzz0yvhhgLU7


EXCAM
Previous importer and distributor located in Hialeah, FL, which went out of business late 1990. Excam distributed Dart, Erma, Tanarmi, Targa, and Warrior exclusively in the U.S. These trademarks will appear under Excam only in this book. All importation of Excam firearms ceased in 1990.
All Targa and Tanarmi pistols were manufactured in Gardone V.T., Italy. All Erma and Warrior pistols and rifles were manufactured in W. Germany. Senator O/U shotguns were manufactured by A. Zoli located in Brescia, Italy.


EIG :
Eig Cutlery US EIG Importer of weapons mfd. in
Italy, Japan, Spain, and
Germany
EIG Importers of small pistols and revolvers in Miami, Florida, c. 1967

TITAN MANUFACTURING CO (TMC),
FIREARMS IMPORT & EXPORT (FIP)
AND
EIG CUTLERY (EIG)
All three companies make the Titan. An F for “fire” for the safety switch appears near the end of the serial number. The F is not a part of the serial number, much like S for “safety” on various pistols (including BROWNING [BRO] and BAUER [BAU]) is not a part of the serial number.

voir pages 19 et 20 :
Pistolet TITAN CA. 22 short avec le logo EIG en coeur de cible
Pistolet TITAN-MOD .380 CAL FIE - MIAMI, FL
Derringer EIG


FIREARMS IMPORT & EXPORT (FIP)
Firearms Import & Export manufactures a 2-shot, .38-caliber derringer model D38 that typically has a serial number on the side of the frame and another on the bottom of the barrel. They are often miscoded as DER or DEH because the FIE is not easily read. 19

page 21 :
EIG CUTLERY (EIG)
EIG makes a four-shot, 22-caliber derringer. It is frequently miscoded as STD because “Use std (standard) vel. ctg.” appears on the barrel. The proper type code on this gun is PX.
20

COM : Contrini Officine Meccaniche di Contrini Giovanni, Gardone VT, via XXIV aprile
Contrini Giovanni Gardone VT 1973

or

May be that's Cominazzo ( not the gunsmithing of XVIIème ) but, two of his little, little,little ..... sons : O. & M. Cominazzo. I have no idea of the son's nick name O & M.

DOM : I have nothing, but if someone have a pic, please, post it.
But my search found this : DOM = DORMAN
or Domino Italia.

2 elongaced diamonds:
Mofra (Mononi Gino)-----------None
MOFRA di Mainardi A.----------Brescia 1971
MOFRA This has been found on Patersons sold by Replica Arms. Two longcated Diamonds with side points touching. Also found on Replica Arms.
MOFRA was bought by Euromanufacture around 1980.

Hubertus : Manufacturer of barrel as Neumann, Orion or Hege.
HUBERTUS Tradename of Inman, Meffert Gewehrfabrik, Suhl, ms, Germany on sporting arms.
Hubertus EM HUB

Now, i need help to find this manufacturer :
IAF
I saw it on 1851 (1971) with Neumann logo and german proof marks, with "made in Italy" stamp on the barel :
http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/11/00/39/58/iaf_1810.jpg
http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/11/00/39/58/iaf_1812.jpg
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/iaf_1810.jpg

The proof house is the city called ULM
Eagle with L means the standard test able to fire with non solid bullet
But, over the gripps, the logo with IAF and a view of two barel's shotgun.
Is any one saw this logo or manufacturer ?
Thanks a lot
Seb

Rusty.it
September 16, 2010, 07:50 AM
The proof house is the city called ULM
Eagle with L means the standard test able to fire with non solid bullet


I have seen many junk navy replica from the '70 with cilinder drilled for caliber like 9mm flobert, back in that years the arms in small rimfire caliber was of free selling without any licence, they meet good market, anybody can buy one and play plinking figuring to be in a spagetti western:)
http://www.ruag.co.uk/?p=8_4&t=Ammunition&m=Garden%20Gun&menu=9
Ball 9 mm


Now this pistol are licensed arms here, exactly like a desert eagle in .50AE:)
Many old arm shop have safe full of this junk pieces and they are impossible to sell even a few euro, are "common arms" for Italian law, and you can have a maximum of 3 "common arms" so you understend that anyone buy 3 more modern arms instead of old junks, this close completely the market:mad:
Rusty

madcratebuilder
September 16, 2010, 08:57 AM
Excellent research sebou, thanks.

DOM=Dorman. This comes up on on-line searches because Dorman makes tens of thousands of automotive parts and DOM is a common part number prefix.

sebou
September 16, 2010, 12:03 PM
Hello all

Rusty.it
Yes, you are true, in France the law put down 12 at 6 handguns under license. There is a class system, first class at the third includes weapons of war (Colt M1911, P08 luger ...) and accessories (bayonets, grenades, gas masks ...), the 4th is weapon Poingt defense (Colt 357, S & W Cal 44), the fifth hunting weapon, the 6th & 7th are the weapons of leisure and knives, the 8th are the ancient arms (anterior to the system 1875, as black powder). The SAA 1883 is in 4th class. The 6th, 7th and 8th are freely available.
Then it's a serious problem because many weapons are not declared from the time it is forbidden to keep more than 6. But Black Powder are in free sell without authorization. in this condition, the market isn't closed is and you could have 50 BP.

madcratebuilder

Thx a lot, and i just found the manufacturer of the revolver, with the logo as double barel shot gun; That is :
Mavi di Salvinelli IT MVI maybe bought by ASM at the start of 1970.

DOM, yes, on the web i found DORMAN as automtiv parts, but i found it also on earm.it. But i will continue to search to be sure that or not.

Seb

Rusty.it
September 17, 2010, 08:26 AM
Sebou, at this moment (because laws can change like the wind in a spring morning) every arms licence in italy, self defence, sport, hunt, allow you to buy 3 "common arms" 6 "sports arms" 8 "antique, illimitated hunting arms"
There is a mixed techincal-political commission that examine every new firearms imported or produced and list it in a one of this group.
For us "common arms" are all the pistol with standard sight used for self defence, the sport are fron .22 to all, is enought the importer or producer ask to commission to set like sport arms, so you can have a uberti colt '73 common and a uberti '73 sport changing only a screw!
The lucky thing is that all military rifle bolt action and many semiauto like ar15 zastava m76, ak 47, dragunov ecc are hunting rifle, is request only the shell longer 40mm and/or the caliber bigger than 5,56mm :)
Only caliber forbidden to civilian is .50BMG and 9mm luger parabellum
Rusty

bullet bob
September 19, 2010, 11:56 AM
Attached are some photos of my Navy Arms, 44cal, Remington New Army 1858 replica with factory target sights I purchased this pistol in 1979. I would very much like to know which Italian arms company manufactured the gun for Navy Arms.

The gun’s serial number is 032251 and is stamped on the back strap at the bottom of the grip. The top of the barrel is stamped with “Navy Arms Co. Ridgefield N.J.”. The gun is stamped with Italian proof marks which seem to indicate the gun was made(?) in 1978 [AD]. There is also a maker’s mark(?) that I don’t recognize (enclosed in a circle).

A local “expert’s” opinion was that the gun was made in the USA (assembled?) for the Navy Arms Company in the 1970s by Replica Arms Company in Palmer, Massachusetts ( at that time, a division of Navy Arms).

Could the gun have been fitted and assembled in the USA using Italian made parts? If so which Italian manufacturer made the parts?

Thank you very much for your help in identifying the gun’s manufacturer!

Doc Hoy
September 19, 2010, 12:21 PM
....Do I remember correctly from some previous conversations that Navy Arms got some of their replica revolvers from Armi San Paolo?

Hawg
September 19, 2010, 12:22 PM
Makers mark is Navy Arms logo. Or maybe not NA logo but is on box.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/bp%20stuff/navyarms.jpg

madcratebuilder
September 20, 2010, 09:30 AM
Makers mark is Navy Arms logo. Or maybe not NA logo but is on box.

I think you got it! Cool old box, that logo is a new one on me. Thought it was Palmetto when I first looked.


A local “expert’s” opinion was that the gun was made in the USA (assembled?) for the Navy Arms Company in the 1970s by Replica Arms Company in Palmer, Massachusetts ( at that time, a division of Navy Arms).

Navy Arms did buy out Replica Arms. The revolver was "made in Italy". If it was assembled in the USA it was as a "kit gun".

mykeal
September 20, 2010, 02:09 PM
My 1851 Navy came in the same box:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201851%20Navy/P7180041.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201851%20Navy/P7180042.jpghttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201851%20Navy/P7180043.jpg
It was made in Italy by Pietta; it has an FAP stamp on the bottom of the barrel assembly just forward of the trigger guard; this is an old Pietta logo. The gun was made in 1977. Sorry about the quality of the picture.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201851%20Navy/P7180044.jpg

sebou
September 21, 2010, 10:11 AM
Hello all
Navy arms is the importer n1 in USA. The Italian producers are Pietta , Uberti , Pedersoli , Armi Sport et Euroarms ( i have saw their models from collectors and friends).

I just need some precision about Navy Arms and maybe you should help me :
I saw on several BP the mark " Navy Arms co Ridgefield N.J" and some other with the mark : "Navy Arms Co inc Bogota N.A USA".
Should that is the same firme ?
Thx
Seb

bprevolver
September 21, 2010, 10:42 AM
The logo, RA in circle over a gun sight is the Replica Arms Logo. When Navy Arms bought out Replica Arms they did not simply eliminate Replica Arms from existence, but changed it to Navy Arms over a period of time. This was to establish Replica Arms and Navy Arms as one and the same. Replica Arms was the chief competitor of Navy Arms at this time.

The first marking change was “REPLICA ARMS RIDGEFIELD NJ” on the barrel. After a short period this was changed to “NAVY ARMS RIDGEFIELD NJ” on the barrel but retaining the Replica Arms Logo somewhere on the gun, the frame, under the loading lever, etc. Replica Arms first used Armi San Marco as its manufacturer, and new info also indicates that Palmetto was also very active in the early 1960’s as well. Navy Arms used Uberti in the beginning for the 1851 Navy, Leech & Rigdon, Remington New Model Army, and the Griswold & Gunnison. Replica Arms was the first company to sell the 1847 Walker, the Dragoons, the Baby Dragoons, and the Pocket Models. These were made by Armi San Marco and possibly by Palmetto.

The 1860 Army revolvers were only produced and manufactured by Centaure of Belgium, at this time, and imported by Mars Equipment Co. and distributed by Centennial. (visit http://www.1960nma.org ). It was not until the later part of the 1960’s that Navy Arms added the 1860 Army made by Pietta to their offerings. It was not until the early 1970’s that Navy Arms offered the large frame revolvers after Uberti started producing the parts for these revolvers to Colt. It was as this time that Uberti decided to enter the market with a complete live of replica percussion revolvers. Exact time that each of these events took place is impossible to know because there are no surviving records found at this time.

The SA Logo found on the Navy Arms boxes before the merging of Navy Arms and Replica Arms is the old Service Armament originally started by Val Forgett in the late 1950’s-early 1960’s.

arcticap
September 21, 2010, 07:19 PM
I saw on several BP the mark " Navy Arms co Ridgefield N.J" and some other with the mark : "Navy Arms Co inc Bogota N.A USA".
Should that is the same firme ?

I had never heard of the Bogota marking before but after looking up Bogota, New Jersey I found that it's only about 4 miles or 10 minutes away from Ridgefield, New Jersey. They must have moved from Bogota to Ridgefield.

sebou
September 22, 2010, 04:41 AM
HI
Thanks a lot BP revolver for your notification about Replica arms & Navy arms link story.
Here a pic from a 1858 remington made by Uberti with the marker from Navy Arms Bogota...
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/pic_0010.jpg

However, should i guess right that's the Navy arms co & the arms arms ridgefield are the same firm ?

Seb

arcticap
September 23, 2010, 04:12 AM
"You bet your sweet bippy!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan_%26_Martin's_Laugh-In

sebou
September 23, 2010, 07:53 AM
"Here Comes The Judge" redirects here. For the 1968 song

What the link with our thread ? :confused:
I don't understand why...
But it's an interesting time of tv show.

arcticap
September 24, 2010, 12:52 AM
What the link with our thread ?
The link is there because the TV show invented the phrase "You bet your bippy" and it was a funny show at the time.

It's also funny to think that there could have been 2 completely different Navy Arms companies in the world only 4 miles apart from each other. Agree? :D

Maybe Navy Arms just moved down the road because they needed a larger building so they bought some property instead of leasing it and paying rent.
I visited their Ridgefield store once. It consisted of a gun shop and a warehouse operation downstairs and in the back. Even though it wasn't a huge place, it served them well for many years.

sebou
September 24, 2010, 03:44 AM
ok arcticap... :o
I understood,
well, i didn't really know if they are 2 firms, and i think that's certainly only one. Then, their marks has may changed time after time as "Navy Arms Co", to "Navy Arms Co bogota" and finaly "Navy Arms Co Ridgefield N.J"
When i'm seeking on NCIC, i only see one firm.
According to BP revovler's notification ( The first marking change was “REPLICA ARMS RIDGEFIELD NJ” on the barrel. After a short period this was changed to “NAVY ARMS RIDGEFIELD NJ” on the barrel but retaining the Replica Arms Logo somewhere on the gun ) there is no mention about "Navy Arms Co" (alone only) or "Navy Arms Co Bogota". That's the reason for the question about those firms (or only one) is still open.

Friendly,
Seb

sebou
October 2, 2010, 10:18 AM
Hello Gents,
Many of us are thinking "PR" means Pierino Ruschetta.
I have seen on other Italian forum, Ruschetta made some Shotguns and it's stamped "PR" nearly the "break barrel" (i hope you understand me...).
Then, it's appears evidence that's the Ruschetta Pierino marks.
But, i didn't found any informations about the start date of this firm.
I had search on "earmit", "NCIC" ect...
I just can tell that's the more oldest revolvers i have seen are :
PR 1973
EIE PR 1972
FIE PR 1971

Then, it would be great that someone could find the date of start of this firm to be able to affirm that "PR" mean Pierino Ruschetta.
Thanks.
seb

sebou
October 7, 2010, 02:07 PM
Hi
I'm coming back soon here, just to tell you, i just bought a 1851 (.44 !!!) made by D.O.M and when it comes at home, i will take and put some pics here.
Other thing, who Know "KONIG", have only one pic from Rogers & Spencer with this marks :
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/marqua10.jpg

One more thing Who know what does mean "GU" stamped over the Uberti replica sells by Navy Arms ?
this pic from Remington model
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/pic_0011.jpg
This pic from Colt looks like 1851 model
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/pix32710.jpg
Umberto Gitti ?
Uberti Gregorelli ?
Guillio Uberti ?
Or someone else ?!?
Thanks for help,

Friendly,
Seb

Fingers McGee
October 7, 2010, 03:25 PM
Sebu,

Here's Dr Davis' (bprevolver) reply on GU marked guns from the Replica Percussion Revolver Collectors forum: http://blackpowdersmoke.com/revolvers/index.php?topic=40.0


The Navy Arms with the “GU” initials are Very, Very, Very collectable. The “GU” stands for Gregorelli and Uberti. Gregorelli made the steel parts and Uberti assembled the revolvers. On the 1851 Navy, the first revolver to be marketed, the “GU” will be found into the 5000 serial number range. The highest number in the RPRCA collection is 5080. The “GU” can also be found on the first Griswold & Gunnison, Leech & Rigdon, Remington New Model Army and New Model Navy.

On the Griswold & Gunnison and Leech & Rigdon the “GU” appears on the right side of the barrel flat the same as on the 1851 Navy. NAVY ARMS is on top of the barrel and on left side of frame. Our Leech & Rigdon #6546 does not have the NAVY ARMS on the left side of the frame but only on the top of the barrel.

On the Remington New Model revolvers the “GU” is located on the bottom of the barrel under the loading lever. These revolvers will also have the Navy Arms Bogota, NJ address.

The Navy Arms replica revolvers have been collectable almost from the beginning. Since Navy Arms is no longer in the revolver import business these guns will definitely become harder to find and much more expensive. Also, keep an eye out for the Navy Arms Powder Flask. These are Very rare. I “stole” one of these in a cased set with a Leech & Rigdon “GU” initialed revolver on Gun Broker. I was the only bidder at $350 starting, No Reserve auction.

FM

Bootsie
October 8, 2010, 02:04 AM
Sebou: regarding the "KONIG" mark on the R&S barrel that should actually be KÖNIG.
König was (might still be around) a barrel maker in Germany. They offered exchange barrels made of famous Krupp steel for the demanding bulls eye shooters. This included barrels for Italian R&S and Remingtons C&B revolvers. If memory serves it was ASP/Euroarms who launched the first Rogers & Spencer during the early 1980s and I had to have one. But was not happy with the factory barrel. So, I had König install one of their accuracy barrels into my R&S. She came back proof tested with a load recommendation, target and new front sight adjusted for that load.
In line with German proof testing regulations the new barrel was marked KÖNIG.
Very accurate pistol.
Bootsie

sebou
October 8, 2010, 06:59 AM
Fingers McGee : Ok that's great info, thanks you !
i had some impresive idea, but i didn't know if i was right or wrong. Now, that's clear. :D

Bootsie Thanks to you also. You tell me more as i knowing. I didn't find anything at this time about Konig. It might to me that's a German name,and you confirm it. You gave me some interesting info about it. :D

Vous êtes vraiment très sympathique les gars !!! * ;)

* you are really nice guys !!! :D

Sebou

Last Calls
October 21, 2010, 11:56 PM
I came into possession of a poor condition Repo 1851 BP Revolver recently. Tho the quality is a bit off, a little TLC got it ready to fire. My addition to the thread is to ask if anyone could recognize the "BG" stamp on the butt of my Revolver.

I know that manufactures of FIE Pistols are notoriously unidentifiable, but Ive never heard of this stamp on a pistol in any thread before. Other stamps on the receiver reveal that it is 1971, otherwise this is all I've got to go on. Thanks all for any help.

Doc Hoy
October 22, 2010, 02:05 AM
I have an FIE 1851 and it does not have this mark.

sebou
October 25, 2010, 11:55 AM
Didn't see it before.
But that's good to open a new search.
Is it possible you put here more pics from your gun ?
(marks, date code, hammer, sight....)
About the pic i'd posted on page 1 from 1851 IAF with German marks, i'm not sure that s IAF really exist, cause i didn't found any info about it. The info comes up from the owner, and didn't saw any mention of IAF from the pics he gave to me.
Also, the logo, on the grip looks like a shotgun barel, now i know :

Mavi di Salvinelli IT MVI
Salvinelli & Tanfoglio

Seb

sebou
June 1, 2011, 07:12 AM
Hi guys,
Special post to BPrevolver :
After many research about COM and DOM
I ve bought some months ago a 1851 (.44) from DOM.
I look it and i wish to give my point of view.
I think DOM do not exist !
The letter "D" is made with a polyci style that's wrong the eyes.
In fact it's a "C" and the circle (is fully completed) of letter is nearly as the "D". Then, i look my model and i could see this. I also see this on the pics from other model called COM. It's really looks like DOM.
I never foud an interesting information avaible to believe DOM or COM are different.
I don't know if i'm understandable with my poor english language, but remember that's the "D" of DOM mean "C".
Then, it's mean Contrini as i told you befor. Do not confuse by Dorman.
Dorman activity is on Car industry supplies, and it's an American Firm.
The replicas are made in italy. It couldn't be possible to found the Italian marks on a material made in the USA.

Seb

Doc Hoy
June 1, 2011, 07:37 AM
Very interesting post.

I think this is the very kind of information a person who is intimately familiar with the language can provide.

We are fortunate to have you among us.

Gladio may be in a position to provide additional information or to confirm your opinion.

sebou
June 2, 2011, 04:33 AM
Thanks Doc.
however, i never heard about Gladio, but if you talk about him, i believe he could give us more informations about this post. Waiting for him... :)

Here somes pics from the marks :

COM is really marked nicely :
http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/00/39/58/03_phi10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=149&u=11003958)

COM should be DOM there :
http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/00/39/58/100_4110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=158&u=11003958)

Here the DOM i have bought recently, and it looks like a "D" but i think this a "C" :
http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/11/00/39/58/1851_a13.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=185&u=11003958)

I hope someone could give more info, or put some pics from COM & Dom marks revovlers. Then, we could made a compar.....

Sebou

bprevolver
June 19, 2011, 12:32 PM
Sebou,

I went back through all the revolvers(10) that I thought were marked DOM. I put them under a strong manifier and I am enclined to completely agree with your findings. Some of the DOM markings show the rounded edges on the front of the "D" but there is a very small break in the curver of the "D" that make it a C not a D. It is like there was an overstamp made. This information is very helpful as have your other postings. I am starting another thread concerning another marking that is a puzzle.

Doc Hoy
June 19, 2011, 01:14 PM
Good to read your post.

BTW, the Dragoon is super addition. Thanks.

sebou
June 24, 2011, 04:21 AM
Hello all
Last call :
Would you put there some other pics from your revolver "BG" FIE, with stamps, and any details to give us a way to search.
I never seen this logo. Only "PR" with FIE. This is an great and exciting research for your own model. Thanks a lot.

bprevolver
Nice to read you again on the forum.
Well, i understanding you get the same point of view than me about COM & DOM. You confirm the way there are not 2 but only 1.
We could be happy to clear this question:D
I am starting another thread concerning another marking that is a puzzle.
Ok that's great and tell us where you start this thread.

arcticap
June 26, 2011, 06:57 PM
sebou,
Last Calls hasn't visited this forum since November, 2010. Maybe he will respond to a private message if his email notification still works.
That info. can be found on his public profile page by clicking on his name, or follow the link below and click on "contact info" to send him a PM.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/member.php?u=108428

Fingers McGee
June 26, 2011, 08:44 PM
Sebou, Here is a picture of the backstrap from a 1970 vintage FIE nickel plated '51 Navy with the GB (or is it BG) makers (?) mark. I have a consecutive serial numbered pair of these with the boxes.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/FIENavySN40008015.jpg

bprevolver
July 4, 2011, 10:30 PM
This "GB" marking has puzzeled me for years. Recently I have studied a few very clear stampings of this logo and there appears to be a "BL" inside the "G". The line in front of the "B" goes under the "B" and turns up. This could be a "B" and "L" together. Trying to determine the correct letter representation for a company logo is difficult. It could be "GLB" going from large letters to small or "BLG" going from interior out.

Any thoughts??

Also the letters PR which are most commonly found on the butt of FIE revolvers as also turned up on an 1851 Navy .44cal. revolver set with three different barrel lengths all numbered to the frame. This only has the PR on the butt and was sold by EMF in the late 1970's-80's. No EMF markings. I found an ad in a magazine by EMF about this set but did not think I would ever see one of these. I ask Boyd Davis, President of EMG about this but he could not recall it specifically but said it wouldn't surprise him at all. The marketing people were working overtime coming up with sales gimicks in this highly competitive market of the 1970's and 1980's. I realize for the shooter these things have little value but to the collector it is these weird offerings that make collectors drool. Finding one is almost like finding a treasure ship off the coast of Texas, or better still finding those 300+ 1847 Walker revolvers that were lost in their shipment to Texas.

junebug_01
July 5, 2011, 07:22 AM
http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/armieri.htm


It lists all Italian gun makers from 1945-1980.


There is a Pierino Ruschetta listed, and I think the PR is him! ;)

sebou
July 23, 2011, 04:04 AM
Hi all
Regarding about PR, i'm still in the answer : is it possible that's Pierrino Ruschetta. Actually, i'm not sure, but have no reason to say yes or not !

About, GB or GBL, well, i have no idea actually.
I will be on this search on the next time.

I ve some personnal troubles and less time to spend on the BP actually, sorry friends.

Seb

sebou
August 27, 2011, 12:18 PM
Hello friends,
About PR :

Didn't found anything about PIERINO RUSCHETTA handgun products. Only shotgun.
http://www.migratoria.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17292&start=45

I read somewhere that a guy had a 1863 Zouave model with PR. He says DART deal thoses firearms. (no photo)
I found RIVA ESTERINA (it) On earm.it 1971 Brescia, distribued by DART.
ESTERINA RIVER do not exist now.
Someone else told about a marks on the buttom of his own Dart's gun (i don't know which model, no photo) : DART mention wrotte over there.

Here some link :
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-339009.html (http://http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-339009.html)

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-438051.html

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/dinkydau/SideArmsR/SAI-R18.jpg

http://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-186800.html?


Regarding about PATRO DI PALMA ROBERTO 1976, i guess that's not the manufacturer we are looking for.
Here a gun made 1 year befor, 1975 :
http://gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10219502
the more oldest revolvers i have seen are :
PR 1973
EIE PR 1972
FIE PR 1971


hope it could help us :)
Seb

sebou
August 27, 2011, 01:08 PM
re
There also exist an other Italian manufacturer who made pistol replica and the initial are L.R
Someone know it ?

http://poudrenoire-free-fr.superforum.fr/t39-poincon-non-identifie-sur-pistolet-pn

Seb

sebou
February 19, 2012, 05:25 AM
Hi all.
I am always to find a piece of answer about "GB" or "GLB" or else... replicas revolvers. But didn't found anything. And you all ?
Thx

sebou
March 23, 2012, 03:26 PM
Hi all
Regarding the search about GLB, it appears that coulb be :
Giacosa Luciano Brescia who started Euromanuarms .
or Giscosa IT .
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/FIENavySN40008015.jpg

friendly,
Seb

sebou
March 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
I'm starting a new search from unknow manufacturer. It's marked FAGS over the buttom of the grip from 1851 dated 1969. Is anyone know this ?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79970&stc=1&d=1332534966

Thx for your comments.
Seb

arcticap
March 24, 2012, 03:11 AM
There's only so many companies that had their hand in building 1851's at the time.
What's interesting is that there was a person named Luciano Amadi who imported the first 1851 into Italy, paid for the tooling, and then presented the initial order for 250 1851 revolvers to a gunsmith named Vittorio Gregorelli (BTW there were 2 Gregorelli gunsmiths, Vittorio and Beniamino*). Then could the FAGS initials stand for Gregorelli?
The article linked below states that Vittorio wasn't licensed to make guns (only parts), but the Italian gunsmith's database indicates that he was a gunsmith since 1958. So maybe that changed.
And he was also a parts supplier/manufacturer.

Coinicidentally, the same Luciano Amadi was also a founder of Armi San Paolo in 1971 along with some gentlemen from the recently defunct handgun manufacturer named Gradoga closed. The initals for Gradoga just so happen to be Fabrica Armi Gradoga [FAG] and the gentlemen who all joined together to form ASP with him were named Giacomo Grassi, Giuseppe Doninelli, along with a person named Gazzola.
So maybe Vittorio Gregorelli and/or Luciano Amadi was having his parts and/or some guns made by Gradoga because of their close contacts with these gentlemen, or to increase the production of 1851's. And the initials were different because these were subcontacted guns being built for Amadi's gun trading company.

Since Armadi already had the gun trading company, had previously invested in making 1851's with Gregorelli, would it make any sense that he would have 1851's produced anywhere else in 1969 using his own tooling or parts?

Or perhaps by then someone else all together was producing 1851's?

https://store.bluebookinc.com/InstantAccess/Category.aspx?product=6&id=9

* http://www.earmi.it/A-Enciclopedia/G.html

sebou
March 24, 2012, 04:41 AM
Thank to you Arcticap !
I tought that the way to search and you gave me a reason to believe it !
Seb

spoonltz28
April 2, 2012, 10:20 PM
Sorry to raise the dead. BUT;
I was doing some research on a pistol that I found and it brought me here;

I know NOTHING about the Percussion guns, and I do not plan on using this gun. I was just looking for info about it.

I do know it is Italian mde and made in 1971. and it does have the LBG logo on it. Here are the pics; Can anybody tell me more about it ??

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2243.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2242.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2241.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2240.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2239.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/spoonlt1355/guns/Italian%20made%201851/DSCN2238.jpg

zullo74
April 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
I can tell you one thing. The wedge is in backwards. It goes in from the left side on that model, in fact, on all open top Colt types except the Walker.

sebou
April 3, 2012, 10:53 AM
Nice gun,
We are talking about BLG manufacturer and it should that right words to say who is it.
These gun was imported by Firearms Import Export.
Regarding the marks over the yellow frame : 1st time i saw the stamp & proof like that. I would tell ther are not vertical position as usual stamped, but Horinzontal.
It look like the Colt model of 1849 : U can see the famous diligence battle's picture.
If you want to know more about your gun, you can report to the 1849 pocket pistol section on this forum or simply on the google search.
Also to the FIE search.

Seb

spoonltz28
April 3, 2012, 09:12 PM
Thank you Sebou, this gives me more to look into.

What is the Diligence Battle?? The scene on the cylinder is that of a stagecoach robbery.

I was able to measure the inside of the barrel and it did measure .31
so that makes more sence.

Rifleman1776
April 4, 2012, 12:01 PM
Interesting thread. Clearly boatloads, literally, of replica C&B revolvers have come to the U.S. from Itlay in the past 40, or so, years.
The thread reminds me of when I had my muzzle loading shop in the 70's. Somehow I got onto the mailing list from and exporter. One offering was for a gross (that's 144) of brass framed Rem. Army .44 C&B revolvers. The total price to me, as a dealer, including shipping and import fees, was $575.00. That breaks down to under $4.00 per gun. :eek: Even at that time, $4.00 wasn't much money, especially for a new gun.
One has to wonder how much time and care went into manufacturing those when the factory, exporter both made a profit on them, not including shipping and fees. Not much, fer sure.
These same guns were retailed by many here in the U.S. for anywhere from $50.00 to well over $100.00 each.

ricko
April 21, 2013, 10:33 AM
I know I'm very late getting to this conversation, but I thought I would post this for the benefit of anyone who comes along later:

The best information that I've been able to dig up indicates that this logo is "LGB" and stands for Luciano Giacosa of Brescia, Italy. My father had two EIG replicas, an 1851 Colt .36 Navy that he bought in 1966, and a Colt 1849 .31 caliber that he bought in 1967. I don't know whether these had the LGB logo on them, as he engraved over any markings on the frame of the 1851 (which is the only one that I have in my possession).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26262745@N08/8587614108/in/set-72157633088956353/

Bishop Creek
April 21, 2013, 12:06 PM
Rifleman1776: These same guns were retailed by many here in the U.S. for anywhere from $50.00 to well over $100.00 each.

You're right. I paid $60 in 1969 for a brand new brass framed 1851 Navy. $60 was a weeks wages for me back then.

Doc Hoy
April 21, 2013, 07:18 PM
In the mid seventies I was buying everything through Shotgun News. EMF was a big volume vendor and steel frame Colts and Remingtons were going for 54.00 to 65.00 bucks. I bought my first ROA (SS 7.5 Target Sights) at the NATO sports store in Naples Italy for 85.00. Also bought a .45 Cal Hawken Flintlock Rifle for 110.00. I carried both of those firearms with me on the plane on the way home. The ROA was actually in my carry-on bag in the cabin.

Try that now.