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mshootnit
February 16, 2009, 12:35 PM
You don't see much about these any more but they really are getting to be a collector if they are a pre 64. Essentially they are just like the 88 in fit and form, but the 88 is a lever and the 100 is semi auto. They've gotten kind of a bad rap for reliability, but really the trick is to clean the gas system. You also have to get the new firing pin put in. Years of R&D went into them by the folks at Winchester. To me anything made pre 64 by Winchester is good. Like those old model 63 semi auto 22's. They sure don't make em like that any more. I am thinking about getting another 100, here is an example of what I am talking about: Lets here about your any nice 100's out there.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=122497394

Voyageur
February 16, 2009, 12:56 PM
I searched for an example at one point, in my checkered career, but I wanted it in a .284 Winchester chambering. It didn't happen so I lost interest.

mshootnit
February 16, 2009, 02:45 PM
here's a couple cool links on the 100..

http://www.chuckhawks.com/winchester_100_rifle.htm

http://store.valueweb.com/servlet/vi...del-100/Detail

dgludwig
February 16, 2009, 06:20 PM
Shot my first deer with one in .308 back in 1964. Worst deal I ever made happened when I traded it for a 1957 Chevy station wagon (and, no, not a Nomad). As I recall, I even threw in some ammo...:(

skeeter
February 17, 2009, 01:36 AM
My first real rifle was a Win. 100 in 243. Bought it new in about 1971. It was a great handling rifle but I think it was the factory magazine that would cause it to jam once in a while.

pilothunter
February 17, 2009, 10:23 AM
I really enjoy the model 100 as well and would simply recommend looking for a carbine model as well. The slightly shorter overall length makes it a really handy whitetail rifle, IMO.

Ruger4570
February 17, 2009, 10:56 AM
I have one of the 100 Carbines in 284 also. The Carbine does not have checkering on the stock either. Great gun and I never had a problem with it whatever.

mshootnit
February 17, 2009, 01:46 PM
The 284 rifle would be sweet to have especially in a carbine. A different note: On the post 64 rifles, the pressed checkering/ floral pattern doesn't really work for me, but I have seen some of these rifles with beautiful wood grain under that.

Picher
February 17, 2009, 02:58 PM
The 100 was a very nice handling rifle, though it did have a few problems that should be considered before purchase.

First, is the firing pin recall. The original pins were subject to breakage and in a particular manner that caused the guns to go full-auto. The replacement pins are okay.

Stocks are also prone to breakage at the pistol grip. I've seen four or five in a gunsmith's shop at the same time.

Gas pistons were prone to rusting if not cleaned after each shooting session or deer shot. The worst thing about it is that the rifle won't come out of the stock if the piston is seized up, so you can't easily squirt stuff in there to loosen it.

Next is the accuracy problem. Some would shoot close to 2" groups at a hundred yards and some would shoot about 12" groups. I think it may have to do with the bedding, but don't know for sure.

The Winchester 88 lever action "cousin" is one of the finer deer rifles around. It seemed to shoot more accurately and have fewer problems for folks we knew who had them. Taking them apart and getting them back together right was a real trick, though. I never saw a rifle mechanism that could go together so many wrong ways.

Picher

pilothunter
February 17, 2009, 03:00 PM
Unlike other winchester rifles, I believe the checkering to be the only difference between the pre and post '64 models in the mod 100. I do like the impressed checkering, if only because it's a bit different. I ended up refinishing both the rifle and carbine I own, both in .308 and although it does lower the collector value the outstanding wood found beneath is well worth it for my eyes.

I shot the two biggest deer I've ever shot with those two guns and they'll likely be with me forever, anyway. The mod 88's slightly trimmer stock is very close in style to the mod 70 Featherweight's and the barrel is the same contour as the older Featherweight's. Both models are easy on the eye and my 100s and 0ne 88 all shoot well enough to be great whitetail rifles.

dgludwig
February 17, 2009, 03:28 PM
Stocks are also prone to breakage at the pistol grip.

Same with the 88.


The Winchester 88 lever action "cousin" is one of the finer deer rifles around. It seemed to shoot more accurately and have fewer problems for folks we knew who had them. Taking them apart and getting them back together right was a real trick, though.

One thing you never want to do is to "open the action" of an 88 once it's out of the stock. You'll have a devil of a time reassembling the bolt if you do.

Unlike other winchester rifles, I believe the checkering to be the only difference between the pre and post '64 models in the mod 100. I do like the impressed checkering, if only because it's a bit different.

And I hate the impressed "checkering" -there's just no accounting for tastes! :)

pilothunter
February 17, 2009, 03:51 PM
My first mod 88, a .308 with shortened barrel did, in fact break right at the wrist. And by the looks, it was not the first time either...lol. I traded it away about 20 yrs ago for a pump shotgun. The mod 88 I found for a really good price about 4 yrs ago is a much nicer, all original one (about a '72 model if I remember right) and it's a very good shooter as well. As they say, "it all works out...."...lol.

When I win the lottery, I'd like to build a nice mod 88 in .358 with 20" barrel and a Mannlicher stock. I'd prolly be the only fella on my block with one of those....:D

dgludwig
February 17, 2009, 05:41 PM
Of course, it might be a lot cheaper to get a Savage 99 "Brush Rifle" in .358 cal. Or not. ;)

pilothunter
February 17, 2009, 09:56 PM
It may be a lever .358, but it wouldn't be that striking 1 piece stock. Damn my taste...lol!!

dgludwig
February 17, 2009, 11:06 PM
Well, look at it this way: the stock of the 99 wouldn't be so prone to break at the wrist. :eek:

My first (and last, for that matter) experience with the Model 88 stock breakage phenomenon happened in 1963 while I was stationed @ Anderson AFB on Guam. I had ordered a new 88, chambered in.358 Winchester, from the states and it arrived with the stock broken right in the wrist area. The Base Exchange "policy" at the time was that I could not reorder the same firearm and had to order something different (don't ask me why-I've never understood their purported "rationale"). In any event, I ended up ordering the Model 100 in .308.

Mark whiz
February 18, 2009, 05:23 PM
I have an old M100 that I reworked the stock on a few years back - it had a really gorgeous piece of walnut on it - once I got off someone else's refinish job.

Here's a link to some of the step by step refinish pictures:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/70411986zVFpIF

mshootnit
February 19, 2009, 09:15 AM
with all those broken stocks and refinished rifles, the ones that are kept clean and in good shape might be worth more someday.

bg7m
February 19, 2009, 02:43 PM
The first deer I shot, was with a Win. M100, 308. Always had problems with the spent shell hanging in the chamber. Sold that gun about 20 years ago and regreted it ever since.

mshootnit
February 20, 2009, 09:11 AM
The first time I became aware of these was looking through my dads NRA guide to disassembling rifles, and there it was. I thought it looked pretty cool. You know if you look through one of those books, there are alot models that are out there, a person might not even know about.

pilothunter
February 20, 2009, 10:30 AM
The model 100s and 88s are still great looking rifles to my eye. It's a shame that many have not seen nor ever even heard of either, but it's been 35 yrs since they were produced. I enjoy searching out older models in good shape vs simply buying NIB and having a "typical" deer rifle. My last "find" was a Husqvarna model 4100 in .270($400). What a great lightweight and handy rifle! There are lots more out there, if you search some of the internet auction and sale sites and look for something outside the box.

dgludwig
February 20, 2009, 02:20 PM
Because I like the 88 so well (I hope I'm not straying too far from the subject of this thread), I've always been intrigued with the long discontinued Sako "Finnwolf". If I ever find one in decent condition that I can afford, I'll buy it.

pilothunter
February 20, 2009, 02:45 PM
The Finnwolf looks to be a pretty neat rifle, but I think the barrel is like 2" longer (24") than the 88, so a bit longer than I like my rifles, especially levers. There's a fella on another forum who recently bought one, minus the magazine, and he cannot seem to find one anywhere. So, at least for now, he's got a single shot lever rifle!

mshootnit
February 21, 2009, 10:20 AM
Model 100 variations:
It seems to me in reading that the carbines may have been a little more reliable. Is that true?

dgludwig
February 21, 2009, 01:11 PM
Never heard that nor do I have any idea why the shorter barreled 100 would differ at all from the rifle version in terms of reliability, accuracy or anything else that comes to mind. It would, of course, have a louder bark.
Do you know what the theory is based on and/or what evidence there is from your reading?

mshootnit
February 22, 2009, 05:41 PM
I've just been reading threads here and there, and the posts from the carbine owners seem to indicate that they are pretty reliable, so just wanted to verify. Also the carbines seem to be commanding a higher price.

dgludwig
February 22, 2009, 07:06 PM
If Model 100 carbines command higher prices it's because they are scarcer, not because they are more reliable. And if rarity is the biggest determining factor, I would imagine that the Model 88 carbine would likewise fetch a higher resale than the rifle version. All that said, there is a caveat: because the carbine versions of the models 100 and 88 were not introduced until 1967 and 1968 respectively, the "pre-64" positive value indicator might trump scarcity in terms of collector's monetary worth.

Ruger4570
February 22, 2009, 08:11 PM
I am actually thinking of selling my 284 Carbine if I can get a reasonable fair price for it. I sorta explored selling it several years ago and got offers from dealors wanting to steal it, I told them I would leave it to my kids before I gave it away. I am getting up there in years and mostly shoot my 35-284 for hunting.

ritepath
February 22, 2009, 09:31 PM
My Father has one in 243, it won't shoot 100g's for anything, but 80's shoot really fine. He redone the stock several years ago (15 or 20) and it looks new...Super sweet little auto.

pilothunter
February 23, 2009, 10:15 AM
I'd say, from my experience, that the value difference in a pre and post '64 model 100 is very small, being more driven by overall condition. The differences in production (building them) pretty much starts and ends with the checkering pattern, which had already gotten less than excellent in many mod 70s and other Winchesters by 1963, thus the reason Winchester made some changes. The carbine model is much more rare than the pre or post '64 rifle, and a pristine example is the most valuable of the model 100s(especially in .284). Remember, the carbine model has zero checkering, a completely slick stock, so being post '64 means little to nothing.

dgludwig
February 23, 2009, 01:05 PM
Remember, the carbine model has zero checkering, a completely slick stock, so being post '64 means little to nothing.

:confused: Well, I'd say that no checkering vs having checkering not only means something but because it's the only real difference it means everything when distinguishing between pre-64 and post-64 samples (other than no pre-64 carbines were ever made). I certainly agree that the models 88 and 100 were probably the least affected Winchesters in terms of differences between the two "eras". I also agree that condition and caliber, especially in the case of the Model 88 when chambered in .358, are the biggest factors to take into account when determining collectors value for these two Winchesters. Serial number ranges, so apropos when judging the worth of other collectable firearms, mean almost nothing when it comes to the 88 and the 100. Rifle "number one", however, might mean something in either case I suppose...:)

pilothunter
February 23, 2009, 01:44 PM
Heck, I'd even takes number two or three!...lol. I know a fella that has a post '64 he bought in about 1970 that he claims is unfired, but I don't think he kept the box. Nice rifle though.

mshootnit
February 27, 2009, 11:15 AM
Have any of you taken out the firing pin by yourself or have you all had gunsmiths complete the procedure? If you have removed it yourself how is it done?

Secondly, Is it worth upgrading to the gas piston from Brownells? Is that a stainless gas piston? The product description says that it restores reliable function. I went to Nu line to look at parts and couldn't find it there.

THanks for the help!

Mark whiz
February 27, 2009, 10:19 PM
I cleaned my bolt and gas system thoroughly a few years ago when I refinished the stock. I took the bolt down to pieces, but I don't remember if I took out the firing pin or not.

As far as the gas piston goes - if you clean the piston in the rifle REALLY well outside and inside (especially inside) that will help operation significantly without replacing the piston. If you look up how to clean the gas piston and system on a M-14 (M1A) you'll get a good clue how to do it as they have VERY similiar operating systems.

Parts for these things are almost non-existant, so you have to clean and baby every part of them to keep it going.

mshootnit
March 10, 2009, 03:26 PM
Just took mine down last night. Of all the auto loaders I have owned and worked on, this 100 is very unique. Pretty cool to finally examine how it works. Firing pin is a snap. Its a well thought out rifle you can tell someone started from the ground up trying to create a nice modern autoloader. I read a thread on disassembly that was very clearly written by some good samaritan saving me from having to buy a guide of some kind. Really pretty simple. The bedding of the rifle needs some work and I read another thread on how to glass bed these, think I will examine that some more.

gunn308
March 10, 2009, 11:29 PM
The first deer rifle I bought in 67 was a model 100 in .308 it wouldn't group less than 12 MOA no matter what the ammo was in 68 I sold it and got a model 88 carbine that one I still have it groups at 2.5 MOA if I do my part. The next year I picked up an 88 for $50.00 that one had been abused, only 3 yrs. old and the barrel was already pitted, had Bill Morrison put a 7mm Douglas barrel on it that's a real nice 7mm08 tack driver. My son laid claim to that one even after I bought him a 336 30-30 carbine, go figure, he told me I can't shoot 2 guns at once. Now he's eyeing my Mini 14 even though he has a Bushmaster in his cruiser.
Oh yeah that first 88 I paid $134.95 for it.

goddesshecate
February 2, 2011, 08:29 PM
I have been in the market for a Winchester m-100 carbine post or pre 64. I was wondering what the difference was between the coloring or the wood. Do they use the same stain or wood? I have been trying to look for the answers online but it is seemingly difficult to find these answers. If someone could help that would be great. Thank You

goddesshecate
February 2, 2011, 08:31 PM
I have been in the market for a Winchester m-100 carbine post or pre 64. I was wondering what the difference was between the coloring or the wood. Do they use the same stain or wood? I have been trying to look for the answers online but it is seemingly difficult to find these answers. If someone could help that would be great. If I get one, I would love to refinish it. If anyone has answers Thank You

PetahW
February 2, 2011, 09:16 PM
FWIW, the M100 Carbine version was introduced in 1967, the M88 in 1968 - so there's nonsuch thing as a pre-64 carbine.
IIRC, both were disc in 1973.

Every Carbine I ever saw, M88 or M100, had a light-colored walnut. The stock wood had visible grain, but no color contrast/streaking - almost, but not quite, blonde.

I bought a new .243 M100 Carbine in 1970, and sent it off to P.O.Ackley, w/o even firing it.

I got it back 3 weeks ( & $35 :eek: :D ) later, bored out & rerifled to .358", and the bluing touched up, where the gas block had been removed to resize the gas orfice, then resweated back onto the barrel.

It shot factory .358 Winchester ammo w/o a bobble for as long as I had it - about until the late 70's.

.

trooper3385
February 2, 2011, 11:53 PM
My dad had a model 100 in a 308. He sent it off for the firing pen recall and UPS broke the stock on it. The original stock was in excellent condition, but it wasn't the best looking stock around. It was a real dark color. The one that they replaced it with, looked exactly same with the checkering, but it was a lighter color. You could really see the wood grain in the stock and it looked great. The gun looked brand new, not a mark on it. The only problem was you could not hit the broad side of a barn with it. I'm not sure how the accuracy was with the gun before the stock was changed as it wasn't shot very much, so don't know if the stock had anything to do with it. We tried a few different loads but didn't mess with it as much as we should have. I ended up trading it for a new Weatherby Mark V plus $150. I pretty sure I got the better end of the deal. That was the only gun I have ever sold or traded. I wish I had kept the gun and just paid the cash for the Weatherby. I think the accuracy could have been improved with some more tinkering with it and I think it's going to be a pretty good collectors piece in the future.

dgludwig
February 3, 2011, 12:13 PM
It shot factory .358 Winchester ammo w/o a bobble

A Model 100 chambered in .358 Winchester! Now that's a combination I've always dreamed about. But didn't the larger bore make an already light barrel a little too light?

Wyosmith
February 3, 2011, 12:30 PM
I just repaired one last week.

The 100 has a T shaped lug on the front of the trigger housing that slides into a female T shape in the front of the receiver bottom. The ears of the T were sometime knows to break off. Such was the case in this rifle too.

The 100 is a good looking and feeling rifle, but it had more then it's share of problems. It's one for the collectors, not the hunters and shooters in my opinion. I am not a Winchester collector, so speaking for myself only, I would never want one.

bamaranger
February 4, 2011, 01:21 AM
I've wanted one for years.

The 100 has a very traditional look and feel to it. The early ones, pre-64, have all the quality features that one associates w/ the "old" Winchester Co.

Walnut stock, hand checkered, no monte carlo, cheek piece, etc. Deep bluing, etc.

They are not all that uncommon here in the south. Autos have been popular ( and legal) as deer rifles, may due to thick cover and the use of hounds to hunt, and the Win was a good and early option, far superior to the Rem 8 and 81.

NOt to hijack the thread, but a related question (s), what was the order of these three rifles on the market:Win 100, rem 740, and BAR?

PetahW
February 4, 2011, 11:54 AM
Keep in mind the the same Remington 740 has progressed through the years as the Model 742, then the Model Four/7400, and now is called the Model 750 - it's still ticking.

In order of inrtoduction, the Rem 740 was the earliest, followed by the Win 100, then the commercial BAR last.

In order of units sold, although that's proprietal information not released by the three companies, I would make a WAG based on 50 years of observation in field, forest, range & gunshows - that More Rem 740-series guns were sold, followed closely by the BAR, then by the M100.

In order of consumer cost, new, the BAR was the spendiest (hands-down), followed by the M100, then the M740-series.

.

dgludwig
February 4, 2011, 12:57 PM
So long as we're discussing "traditional" (as opposed to AR-15s and Mini-14s and the like) semi-auto, centerfire hunting rifles ("deer rifles", if you will), it would be remiss to not acknowledge the Ruger 44 Standard Carbine, made from 1961 to 1985, and, later, from 2000 until 2007(?) the Model 99/44 Deerfield Carbine. Harrington & Richardson also marketed a semi-auto hunting rifle called the Model 360 Ultra Automatic from 1965 to 1978.

bamaranger
February 5, 2011, 03:50 AM
thanks petahw