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Gbro
February 4, 2009, 11:56 PM
I see most of the replacement nipples at Track of the Wolf for C&B Revolvers are for the #11 caps. Is this something that is happening out of availability of caps or what?
A shooting friend of mine dressed up the nipples on all his revolvers this week. That was around 60 nipples. and He did mine also. We were going to replace all the poor fitting ones but that would have been to costly.

Fingers McGee
February 5, 2009, 01:13 AM
I see most of the replacement nipples at Track of the Wolf for C&B Revolvers are for the #11 caps. Is this something that is happening out of availability of caps or what?

It is what the manufacturer of the cone believes is the right size. That being said, all caps are not creaed equal, and not all #11s are the same size between manufacturers. There is another thread around here somewhere that lists them by size, and I'm sure someone will list it again here. #11 Remingtons and #11 CCIs are not the same size.

The best combination I have found and use in all my shooting C&Bs is Treso cones and #10 Remington caps applied with a Ted Cash revolver (snail) capper. The Treso cones have smaller and more uniform flash holes that reduces blowback and the likelihood that the cap or fragments will fall off and jam the gun.

Bottom line is, you want the cap to fit tightly on the cone and stay there after it has ignited the chamber so it doesnt fall off and jam up the gun. Whatever combination of cones and caps will accomplish that on your pistol is what you should use.

FM

mykeal
February 5, 2009, 07:42 AM
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/CapSizes.jpg
The numbers are inches. Each is the statistical average of 20 or more measurements, with a SD of .002. The measurement of the opening was quite difficult and while the SD is the same, I have to say that I do not have confidence that those data are as reliable; the Remington #10, for instance, surprised me enough that I repeated many measurements on those. But that's what the results were, for what it's worth.

That said, it should be noted that the caps not only vary considerably between brands, they also vary considerably between batches of the same brand. After all, you don't get consistency to thousandths of an inch for $0.03 per item.

Buy the nipples first, based on material properties. Then try different brands and sizes of caps to see what fits best, and keep in mind that the next batch you try may not work any more. You can also modify the nipple cones, but with the variance in cap sizes extant, you may end up with nipples that won't fit anything any more.

Gbro
February 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
You can also modify the nipple cones, but with the variance in cap sizes extant, you may end up with nipples that won't fit anything any more.
I do hope this isn't what is going to happen with all our revolvers.
We (MJ and I) each had 1 revolver that Rem #10's fit very nicely. all the rest were turned down.

Next question,
Is there a standard clearance between hammer and nipple w/o cap to prevent nipple damage?
I have seen nipples that were damaged to the extent that the hammer must have hit them during a dry fire action.

mykeal
February 6, 2009, 01:42 PM
Yes. Half the thickness of the cap metal enclosure, about 0.02". Or so.

However, most of these replica percussion guns are not made with anywhere near the precision necessary to achieve that considering the tolerance stackups between the hammer size and location and the nipple/cylinder sizes and location. Keep in mind some small amount of cylinder end play is required also to prevent jamming the cylinder and achieve a minimum distance between the end of the chamber and the barrel forcing cone.

Original percussion revolvers were hand fitted to ensure the tolerances came together to result in such clearances in the hammer/nipple area, bolt/cylinder, cylinder/forcing cone, etc. With enough patience and a good set of stones and needle files, or a big box full of spare action parts, frames, nipples and cylinders we can also.

Or, a better, or rather easier, idea is to just not dry fire the gun. I believe most tutorials and texts on learning to shoot bp contain such a statement.

Gbro
February 6, 2009, 04:25 PM
Or, a better, or rather easier, idea is to just not dry fire the gun. I believe most tutorials and texts on learning to shoot bp contain such a statement.
I agree.
However many of these revolvers are pawn shop guns, or bought used through other means and may have damage resulting from dry firing. The two I have seen to have some clearance. As for replacement nipples, i see thread sizes, but really nothing pertaining to length. Is there an Industry Standard on nipple length?

mykeal
February 6, 2009, 05:35 PM
There is no 'industry standard' with respect to anything about percussion caps or nipples. Nipples threads do generally, but not always, conform to one of the common thread specifications, but there are at least 10 different ones in common use (meaning you can find them in a catalog):
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/nipplesizes.jpg

The catalogs will sometimes specify 'rifle', meaning a fairly long cone, or 'pistol' or 'revolver', meaning a shorter cone, but that's all.

Gbro
February 6, 2009, 11:34 PM
Thanks Mykeal,
Another question if I may.
What is meant by oversize with nipples like on this page in Tracks catalog?
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(tkciz555w5mgaa553peoft45))/categories/tableList.aspx?catId=1&subId=9&styleId=984&PageSize=25&Page=2

Smokin_Gun
February 7, 2009, 12:28 AM
First oversize means replacement cones in case you need to drill out and retap to first size over... i.e. stripped threads, ect...

SG

mykeal
February 7, 2009, 06:09 AM
Hmmm. I don't know what the oversize refers to. It could be, as SG says, a thread major diameter that's oversize by the specified amount. But where are you going to get a .275x32 tap?

Smokin_Gun
February 7, 2009, 05:00 PM
Mykeal here's what I got from Track of the Wolf as an example of sizes... I wonder if they may also offer taps for the sizes below... you have a valid point.

RNA-05 Oversize nipple, 1/4-32 thread .005" oversize, for Numrich, for #11 cap, Ampco bronze
RNA-10 Oversize nipple, 1/4-32 thread .010" oversize, for Numrich, for #11 cap, Ampco bronze
RNA-20 Oversize nipple, 1/4-32 thread .020" oversize, for Numrich, for #11 cap, Ampco bronze
RNA-25 Oversize nipple, 1/4-32 thread .025" oversize, for Numrich, for #11 cap, Ampco bronze

SG

Gbro
February 7, 2009, 08:31 PM
They do have the taps. $13.xx each or set of 5 $67.xx.

Looks like good old Smokin Gun cut the X Ring;)
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(kzp5iu55mq3llk45coqitizw))/categories/partdetail.aspx?catid=15&subid=87&styleid=320&partnum=tool-retap

mykeal
February 7, 2009, 10:30 PM
Cool! I need a set of those.

None of your business why.

Smokin_Gun
February 8, 2009, 01:52 AM
That's a good idea to be able to get those and the taps... at least they have um available in 1/4 - 28 & 1/4 - 32, Thanks Gbro :D
... don't know where you'd get the 6Mx.75 ect... Never did have one I couldn't get out. Been lucky I guess. I jus' snug up the cones anymore after bustin' a couple Nipple wrenches.

Well I won't ask as it ain't on a need to know basis. But I am glad that the info helped Mykeal...

SG