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View Full Version : I think I smell a RAT!!!


GoldenRoyBoy
January 31, 2009, 01:27 PM
Here we go again!
I hate doing this.

Last month, Dec. 28 I agreed to purchase 1500 200 grain 45acp Missouri Bullet Company cast bullets from DaveInPa (Dave Minnich). I wanted to add a link to his ad; but the site's records only go back to January 1. For $100, I honestly thought I was getting a fair deal.

I paid by PayPal; Dave Minnich got his money immediately. I received the bullets on Tuesday, Jan. 5. Even though I requested Dave pay particular attention to packaging such a heavy box, he obviously ignored my wishes. When I took the flimsy box out of the hands of my mail lady, a corner was ripped and bullets were literally falling out! When I got to the house, I discovered one of the three boxes of 500 had bursted open. There were only 413 bullets. I IM'ed Dave immediately; complaining about the poor packaging and the shortage. I tried explaining how the remaining bullets had rattled around so much, most of the hard blue lube had fallen off. To use any of them, I would need to resize/lube.

Anyway, after much "back and forth", and not receiving any "promised" replacement bullets, I again contacted Dave. Here are Dave's last two IMs to me; dated Thursday, Jan. 22; my last day of contact with him.


(one letter)
Things have been busy. One last time? One last time or what? I didn't short you. USPS did.

(2nd letter)
They'll be shipped when I have time to get to the post office. I've been working during their business hours. Nothing I can do about that. Being pushy isn't going to make it any faster. I didn't do anything wrong and I don't HAVE to send you a thing.

Today, realizing I will never see my 87 bullets, I opened the other two boxes, counting them. Guess what I found? One was short 28; the other, 32. Pictures are attached.

In all honesty, I think Dave Minnich; or DaveInPa knew exactly what he was doing. The two boxes had been opened, and retaped. I can understand one box being short. But, really now; all three? Avoid this guy; if he'll do this to me, he will do it to you.

Be careful out there,
GRB

Alert
January 31, 2009, 01:42 PM
well at least now you know why people are so hesitant to join the world of e commerce, but then strangers have been ripping off strangers since long before now

firstluff
January 31, 2009, 02:54 PM
File a claim with PayPal, and with your credit card issuer...you did fund your PayPal payment with a credit card, I hope.

Mal H
January 31, 2009, 03:38 PM
GRB - I'm not sure why you say "the site's records only go back to January 1." Our records go back to the very beginning of TFL. Perhaps you didn't change the "Find Posts from" time interval to greater than 1 month. (Use "Go Advanced" instead of the mini search window.)

GoldenRoyBoy
January 31, 2009, 05:44 PM
Thanks Mal H!
I did a search of Mr. Dave Minnich's posts and found the link! I felt comfortable with DaveInPa; knowing he's been a member here long enough to accumulate over 1000 posts. Guess it goes to show, one never knows. His attitude is what bothered me the most.

**Mal,
I came back to explain why I wrote "The site's records only go back to January 1".
If you look at "Buy,Sell and Trade: Handguns" hitting "last" page, you'll understand. The last page only goes back to the 1st of January; or so.

Here's the link ---

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328111

Thanks Guys!
Yes, I know I have recourse through PayPal. It's just not my way. Although, I'm still considering it. Chances are this guy has a BIG O balance with them. I could make it a little hard on him I suppose, if I filed a complaint.

GRB

firstluff
February 1, 2009, 03:27 PM
GRB said: "Thanks Guys!
Yes, I know I have recourse through PayPal. It's just not my way. Although, I'm still considering it. Chances are this guy has a BIG O balance with them. I could make it a little hard on him I suppose, if I filed a complaint."

Using PayPal to help resolve the problem helps not only you, but future customers of this vendor. Letting him get away with short-changing and inadequate packaging only reinforces his use of shoddy business practices, and hurts the next guy who buys from him.

Mal H
February 1, 2009, 06:28 PM
If you look at "Buy,Sell and Trade: Handguns" hitting "last" page, you'll understand.I think you've probably set your thread display time period to one month. If you go to the bottom of the forum (any forum), you can change the Display Option time period in the "From the ..." box. I'm willing to bet yours is set to "Last Month".

Sasquatch in MN
February 1, 2009, 07:09 PM
careful using PayPal as a recourse....using PayPay on bullets is the same as loaded ammunition in their eyes and is against their acceptable use policy. They will close your account and possibly kep your funds for 90+ days. I know as they closed my account for accepting payment on a leather 1918 dated M1907 Sling....claimed it was an assault weapon accessory because it coule be attached to a dreaded AW and closed my acct..

Unfortunately you have no recourse if the shipper did not insure the package.

Don

GoldenRoyBoy
February 1, 2009, 07:10 PM
Brilliant!
Thanks!

And, you were right again; one month! :)

GRB

GoldenRoyBoy
February 6, 2009, 09:52 AM
I tried PM'ing this Guy, Dave Minnich from PA won't respond. Goes to show, some people are no better than their word. He promised me, no less than twice free replacement bullets. I was hoping he would; so I could modify this post.

It's sad; DaveInPa has lost my respect; and the respect of others. All over less than 200 bullets.

Easy on the trig!
GRB

9mm1033
February 10, 2009, 09:33 AM
I don't know if it's the same guy, but a DaveinPA is a registered member on THR forum. FWIW

GoldenRoyBoy
February 10, 2009, 05:58 PM
Yes, DaveinPa; it's so originally unique who else would claim it but a rat? :eek: :eek:

GRB

DaveInPA
February 10, 2009, 06:17 PM
I did nothing wrong. You paid me for bullets, and I shipped them. Simple as that.

GoldenRoyBoy
February 10, 2009, 06:32 PM
About time.

You're absolutely right about one thing; I paid you.

I trusted you to hold up your end of the bargain. I did not receive what I paid for. And, you act as though you did nothing wrong; that somehow it's my fault. Or, the post office's. My only fault was trusting you; Mr. DaveInPA--Dave Minnich.

GRB

DaveInPA
February 10, 2009, 06:33 PM
I've sold a lot of things on this forum and others (I'm not on THR, by the way), and I've never had an issue. Your package wasn't handled properly and I'm a bad guy? Give me a break.

GoldenRoyBoy
February 10, 2009, 07:03 PM
Question:
How many times did you write, telling me "you" were sending replacement bullets? Those statements in themselves, and lack to follow through are indeed a reflection of your character. Fact is Sir, you just don't give a **** what I, or anyone else thinks.

As far as the other deals, with other people; all I can say is, "Those people were indeed luckier than I!"

GRB

GoldenRoyBoy
February 11, 2009, 07:11 AM
A thought.

"I've sold a lot of things on this forum and others (I'm not on THR, by the way), and I've never had an issue."

So Dave, do you believe with all sincerity since you had so many "issue-less" sales, you somehow gathered up enough "good sale" points to not do what you promised me?

To some, this is issue between you and I is no big deal; most likely because it happens way too often, and not to them. Let me tell you, it's big to me. Any time anyone sells something, specifying a quanity, IMO the count should either be exact; or preferably over.

GRB

DaveInPA
February 11, 2009, 09:34 AM
Drop it. I wasn't about to sit there and count 1,500 bullets. Apparently the manufacturer didn't count them either since I shipped them as I got them. USPS damaged the box. Please, just drop it. :rolleyes:

GoldenRoyBoy
February 11, 2009, 09:45 AM
""Apparently the manufacturer didn't count them either since I shipped them as I got them. USPS damaged the box""

I guess the manufacturer makes it a habit to seal-unseal-retape their boxes too? Why must you keep lying; always pointing the "fault" finger at someone else?

I'm going to drop this matter; but not because of your request. It's easy to understand I'm fighting a losing battle here. I'm a nobody; meaning I have no power. And, by the actions/pms of others, it's now perfectly clear nobody cares.

See you around,
GRB

DaveInPA
February 11, 2009, 09:55 AM
""Apparently the manufacturer didn't count them either since I shipped them as I got them. USPS damaged the box""

I guess the manufacturer makes it a habit to seal-unseal-retape their boxes too? Why must you keep lying; always pointing the "fault" finger at someone else?

I'm going to drop this matter; but not because of your request. It's easy to understand I'm fighting a losing battle here. I'm a nobody; meaning I have no power. And, by the actions/pms of others, it's now perfectly clear nobody cares.

See you around,
GRB

Go ahead and place an order with them. See what the boxes look like when you get them. They'll be TAPED WITH PACKING TAPE. Missouri Bullets is a Mom & Pop operation, not an uber-fancy factory. You got the bullets from me that I got from them. Not my fault. I love getting called out when I did nothing wrong.

Have a great life.

OuTcAsT
February 11, 2009, 10:08 AM
Not trying to defend or not anyones actions but you said...

When I took the flimsy box out of the hands of my mail lady, a corner was ripped and bullets were literally falling out! When I got to the house, I discovered one of the three boxes of 500 had bursted open.

If that is the case, then the shipper(USPS) not the seller would be responsible for damages. I receive quite a number of shipments, and if there is any damage you must file a claim with the shipping carrier. It is their responsibility. If the box was damaged during shipment (which it obviously was or USPS would not have accepted it for shipment) then your beef is with them.

DaveInPA
February 11, 2009, 10:17 AM
If that is the case, then the shipper(USPS) not the seller would be responsible for damages. I receive quite a number of shipments, and if there is any damage you must file a claim with the shipping carrier. It is their responsibility. If the box was damaged during shipment (which it obviously was or USPS would not have accepted it for shipment) then your beef is with them.

Thank you! I bought the box at the post office, so it definitely wasn't damaged when I dropped off the shipment. :cool:

Mike Irwin
February 11, 2009, 10:19 AM
I'm going to remind everyone of the new rule that is in effect here.

Unless you are directly involved in a disputed transaction, or have some bit of technical information about why a transaction may have gone wrong, STAY OUT OF IT.

If your only "contribution" is to say something to the effect of "well I'll never buy from XXX, either, what a tool!" then in fact you have nothing to contribute and your post WILL be deleted.

GoldenRoyBoy
February 11, 2009, 10:23 AM
It's not the fact the box was torn open which had me upset; it's the continueing lies. Things do get damaged in shipping; no doubt. This gentleman assured me, no less than twice he would make this right. He did not. He assured me, and now the rest of you the three ammo boxes, each labeled 500 quanity "were as he received them from the manufacturer". They were not.

Another lie --
Thank you! I """bought""" the box at the post office, so it definitely wasn't damaged when I dropped off the shipment.*

Flat rate boxes are free. :)

That's it.
GRB

DaveInPA
February 11, 2009, 10:32 AM
It's not the fact the box was torn open which had me upset; it's the continueing lies. Things do get damaged in shipping; no doubt. This gentleman assured me, no less than twice he would make this right. He did not. He assured me, and now the rest of you the three ammo boxes, each labeled 500 quanity "were as he received them from the manufacturer". They were not.

Another lie --
Thank you! I """bought""" the box at the post office, so it definitely wasn't damaged when I dropped off the shipment.*
Flat rate boxes are free.

That's it.
GRB
__________________

So now you're going to argue Semantics? Nice. You got the point.

I've never been neurotic enough to count every bullet in a box of 500. I shipped you those boxes with however many bullets were in them when I got them from Missouri.

GoldenRoyBoy
February 11, 2009, 10:38 AM
Dave, you asked me to drop this. I tried. Yet, you insist on keeping the thread going!

Here is my final post, regarding this matter; unless provoked.

"Either send me the 148 bullets you owe me; or zip it."

I suspect I already know what you will do.
GRB

Mike Irwin
February 12, 2009, 12:21 PM
THAT'S IT, FOLKS!

Apparently a lot of you just don't understand what "STAY OUT OF IT IF YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED" means.

So, here's how it's going to play out.

The next person who posts in this thread who is not TFL Staff, GoldenBoyRoy, or DaveinPA and whose only purpose is to throw in their (unwarranted) two cents will be banned from TFL.

YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM TFL. Is that clear enough now?

Consider that carefully before you decide that your comments about two people you don't know regarding a transaction in which you were not involved is so incredibly vital that you're willing to stick your neck on the chopping block.

GoldenRoyBoy
February 12, 2009, 02:02 PM
Guys,
I just wanted to step in this one last time (I hope) and thank everyone for their comments of support. Unfortunately, this deal is over; and, done. Nothing more can be said; or written. However, I'm disappointed others having similiar problems with this gentleman can't voice their dissatisfaction. If we can't speak, others won't know to avoid these types of individuals.

May you next deal make two happy people,
GRB

Mike Irwin
February 12, 2009, 02:15 PM
By request of both involved parties, this thread is closed.