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Playboypenguin
January 31, 2009, 12:20 PM
It is amazing how many locked conspiracy threads I am looking at in here. They range from borderline paranoid to psychotic. Even when locked they still scream out to any visitor that graces these pages with a loud and clear message that this forum is full of "radicals and loons."

Instead of just locking these threads, and leaving them as land mines throughout the section, why not just delete them? They really do detract from the mission of this board to promote healthy and safe firearms ownership and to portray gun owners in a positive light.

hillbillyshooter
January 31, 2009, 12:31 PM
I like seeing them even if they are locked. Makes for some entertaining reading IMO. Pretty interesting how some believe whatever conspiracy they breifly glance at on the internet, then feel the need to "warn" the rest of us.

noyes
January 31, 2009, 12:33 PM
I'd rather see alot of different subject matter & make up my own mind than have to much sensorship. The Mediators do the most Excellent job on this forum.

What you do not know can hurt you.

Al Norris
January 31, 2009, 12:41 PM
Interesting comments. Completely off topic, but I'm inclined to see what everyone else has to say about this...

Personally, I can go either way. I have no clue as to where my co-moderators stand on this. Hmmm, adding a poll might help in a possible decision.

ETA: Added a simple two choice poll. The poll will remain active for thirty days and this thread will be "stickied" for that time. I've set the poll to tell us who voted which way (if you are a constant contributer to L&CR, your vote will likely count more than someone who just stopped by to vote.)

Comments should be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Wildalaska
January 31, 2009, 12:51 PM
Get rid of them on basis articulated by PP. Plenty of other places to find stupidity.

Change the motto "more signal, less noise" to "The Only Place on the Internet that Bars Stupidity"


WildihaveanexceptionofcoursesincestupidismynatureAlaska Tm

Mike Irwin
January 31, 2009, 12:52 PM
Come on, you guys, you know the first rule of Conspiracy Club.

You don't talk about Conspiracy Club.



"What you do not know can hurt you."

But in the case of so many of our conspiracy threads, what someone else supposedly knows can give you an annoying headache.

Alert
January 31, 2009, 12:52 PM
I'd hate to have them used as an argument for further restrictions on firearms ownership via psychological screening before each firearm purchase

Wildalaska
January 31, 2009, 01:00 PM
I'd hate to have them used as an argument for further restrictions on firearms ownership via psychological screening before each firearm purchase


That presupposes that

THEY

are watching:eek:

And that there is a

PLAN

by THEM

to use silliness on the net as a reason

To secretly impose Psycological

TESTING

On patriotic gunowners:cool:

WildolookthethreadonwahttodowithconspiracythreadsturnsintoaconspiracythreadAlaska TM

maestro pistolero
January 31, 2009, 01:02 PM
It is usually pretty straightforward to identify a conspiracy theory. Most of us who spend any time on the net will encounter them often enough to know.

If the issue, whatever it is, has been around for some time; there's no evidence of it's truth to be found, and it continues to be propagated, it is probably a conspiracy theory.

What if we were to have a category, read only that could serve as a reference for issues that have been already been de-bunked. Maybe call it BUSTED. That way when someone posts on a BUSTED issue, there's no gray area that can be claimed, and they will have been busted, too!

But what's the old saying? Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! :D

What about a new issue that sounds like a conspiracy, but there hasn't been time either to verify or de-bunk it? Should we write it off, or investigate first? If we do nothing, and the issue, turns out to be valid, then we may have lost some valuable time.

vranasaurus
January 31, 2009, 01:07 PM
I second what PBP said and they should be deleted.

The debate between gun control and gun rights often comes down to perception and image.

Having these threads remain for all to see does nothing to help the image of gun owners and creates a perception among non gun owners that we are all nut cases.

vranasaurus
January 31, 2009, 01:21 PM
What if we were to have a category, read only that could serve as a reference for issues that have been already been de-bunked. Maybe call it BUSTED. That way when someone posts on a BUSTED issue, there's no gray area that can be claimed, and they will have been busted, too!

So that we can stop the drive bys involving ammunition registration and HR 45 etc..

I think this is a good idea if it leads to the banning of individuals from the L&CR forum for failure to read the busted thread and starting a thread about an item contained within.

What about a new issue that sounds like a conspiracy, but there hasn't been time either to verify or de-bunk it? Should we write it off, or investigate first? If we do nothing, and the issue, turns out to be valid, then we may have lost some valuable time.

When an issue moves out of the realm of near impossibility into the realm of possibility I think we, as in the non conspiracy theorist, will all know. Say a bill has a great many co sponsors, is scheduled for a committe hearing, or is voted out of committee then I would venture a guess that it is an appropriate topic for discussion here.

Remember any nutty congressman can introduce any bill they want to, just like any nut can worry about a ban on guns, but that doesn't mean either is going to become law. We all know what many elected officical's position on gun laws are. Their positions are not secret but this forum is about the actual law, cases before the courts, or bills that could actually become law and not the fact that there are politicians that want to ban guns(which is very old news).

noyes
January 31, 2009, 01:26 PM
"What you do not know can hurt you."

But in the case of so many of our conspiracy threads, what someone else supposedly knows can give you an annoying headache.


Haaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaa very true.

a few experts in the matter C.I.A., D.O.D

Alert
January 31, 2009, 01:27 PM
I doubt they see it as just silliness on the net

don'tyouwishyoumadethatmuchsense

Creature
January 31, 2009, 01:29 PM
Having these threads remain for all to see does nothing to help the image of gun owners and creates a perception among non gun owners that we are all nut cases.

As if they needed another reason to validate their suspicions, right?

Give us a break.

There are conspiracy theorists galore on both sides of the 2nd Admendment fence.

Shut them down and let them sit there, dead, for all to see....as a warning to all who enter Rome.

Alert
January 31, 2009, 01:31 PM
There are conspiracy theorists galore on both sides of the 2nd Admendment fenceso what is the leftist version of a black helicopter theorist?

vranasaurus
January 31, 2009, 01:33 PM
Maybe instead of calling it BUSTED we should call it CHECK YOUR TIN FOIL HAT AT THE DOOR.

kirpi97
January 31, 2009, 01:35 PM
I voted to lock them. This made the voting 5 to 5. I don't really give a rats patooty what is done. They are out there and will always find a small mind to repeat them. Then they will be shared for all of us to enjoy, laugh at, agree with. or just tune out as the ravings of a loony.

Aside from gumming up the internet, what harm do they have? Stone has made millions making movies to entertain the loons with his conspiracy theories. Why not give the wannabees a forum here to float their ideas. I only ask that they provide some facts with these ideas.

The next vote will break the deadlock. Enjoy.:D:D:D

Darn, I see that it is 7 - 5 favoring deletion. Where are my conspiracy theorists now???

vranasaurus
January 31, 2009, 01:37 PM
As if they needed another reason to validate their suspicions, right?

Give us a break.

I'm not talking about those who are avowedly anti gun. I'm talking about people who don't care either way and seeing stuff like this could push them to the other side of the fence.

BrunoNorway
January 31, 2009, 01:37 PM
Close them and delete them. We dot want to turn into this:http://www.davidicke.com/forum/:p:eek:

Maybe the mods should see what is firearms related and whats not. Just a thought.

ron8903
January 31, 2009, 01:45 PM
Not only delete them , Id go as far as making
a forum rule, No conspiracy theory threads.

Al Norris
January 31, 2009, 01:55 PM
Earlier, I said: Comments should be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Maybe I should have said: Comments will be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Oy, try to be haimish and the schleppers come out of the woodwork! :rolleyes:

Al Norris
January 31, 2009, 02:01 PM
Not only delete them , Id go as far as making
a forum rule, No conspiracy theory threads.
Another member who doesn't read the rules posted in a "sticky" (now) near the top of the forum he's posting in.... sigh.

...the types of posts/threads that will not be tolerated:

Drive-by cut and paste posting.
Puerile Bickering.
Political Advocacy posts, or any purely political topic.
Conspiracy Threads/Posts.
Posts/Threads on Race, Religion and Sexuality will remain off topic.
Posting invectives.

gc70
January 31, 2009, 02:15 PM
I voted to lock the conspiracy threads, but leave them as a warning to others. However, my vote was based on actively enforcing the following section of the L&CR rules:

At the other end, we will be lowering the exit bar, as it relates to who will be allowed to post here. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At best you will receive one warning.

goodspeed(TPF)
January 31, 2009, 02:22 PM
It may be better served to actually HAVE a "Conspiracy Theory" "Fiction" dedicated thread, and LABELED as such. Seriously. Then posts that fit the criteria could simple be moved there. The mods should consider this option. -Goodspeed

Playboypenguin
January 31, 2009, 02:29 PM
I doubt they see it as just silliness on the net
"They" do not just see it as internet silliness. Unfortunately, "they" see it as a reason to do all the things we are trying to prevent. "They" see the radical ranting as a reason to restrict guns even further because of the radical, unhinged people that seem to be leading/populating the gun owning community. Sadly, the "they" in question is the general population and not some black-ops government agency.

This type of behavior falls under the "self fulfilling prophesy" category.

Like I have said in the past, I have tried to initiate many friends to this forum. They have all decided in the end that they do not want to be associated with such nonsense after reading a lot of the radical posts.

maestro pistolero
January 31, 2009, 02:40 PM
It may be better served to actually HAVE a "Conspiracy Theory" "Fiction" dedicated thread, and LABELED as such. Seriously. Then posts that fit the criteria could simple be moved there. The mods should consider this option. -Goodspeed

Respectfully disagree. There is no shortage of sites on the internet for this subject. Entertaining it here serves no purpose to our cause, IMnevertobeHO

Mount their heads, and one or two examples of their particular folly, for all to see on a read-only BUSTED thread! ;)

dm1333
January 31, 2009, 02:57 PM
I voted delete them. I'd like at least one internet forum to be free of conspiracy theory.:rolleyes:

BrunoNorway
January 31, 2009, 02:59 PM
Earlier, I said: Comments should be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Maybe I should have said: Comments will be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.


Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it? ;)

Webleymkv
January 31, 2009, 03:10 PM
I voted to lock them for lack of a better option in the poll. Some of the conspiracy threads, while they violate the forum rules and should be closed, still contain useful info about current legislation etc. However, I have no problem with deletion of threads like the one in this link as they have no useful information in them. I guess I really wanted to vote to lock some and delete others.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335136

azredhawk44
January 31, 2009, 03:16 PM
Some of these "conspiracy" posts have turned out to have at least a kernel of truth to them.

One in particular that comes to mind, earlier lamented as intertard ramblings, was The Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP), aka the North American Union.

It is now actively being fought for and against on both sides, and incorporates such concepts as currency and identification standards.

My vote was to leave them visible if they are locked, since a large number of them by different users could indicate that something indeed is worthy of our attention.

Hirlau
January 31, 2009, 03:23 PM
Conspiracy threads are as worthless as "Tits On A Bull !":eek:


http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk73/typhoonwinds/Bull.jpg

alloy
January 31, 2009, 03:46 PM
it must be a question of degrees, because i see the conspiracy thread as equal to the SHTF threads. Which i see equal to the topping off the magazine threads and carrying a hi cap with two spares, what would you do if gangbangers raid your farm threads and my caliber is bigger than yours. all i figure at about 1,000,000 to 1. (unless someone is a police or soldier)

but i do get a kick out of them so i voted to keep locking them.

Alert...a left wing version of a conspiracy theorist says "its a right wing conspiracy"

grymster2007
January 31, 2009, 03:50 PM
I voted to lock and leave, but don't lock 'em too soon. Allow us a little entertainment by leaving them open long enough for some of our funnier members to respond. WAs recent commentary, that had him doing things like taping a Seecamp to the back of his neck in case SWMBO gets frisky, amount to good, cheap fun. Don't deny us that.

Tennessee Gentleman
January 31, 2009, 04:22 PM
I voted to delete them off the forum. The first reason is because I do not believe they (conspiracies) are true. The second reason they should be removed is that they make gun owners look like kooks when people read them. Tom Gresham won't discuss them on his show Guntalk and I think he presents a good face for gun owners. We should be too.

Al Norris
January 31, 2009, 04:31 PM
Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it?;)
What? You mean I lost control, so soon? :p
Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it? ...cheap fun. Don't deny us that.
That would be, this thread, yes? ;)

kirpi97
January 31, 2009, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by:Tennessee Gentleman
because I do not believe they (conspiracies) are true.That is why they are conspiracy theories. They hold little truth and then create a fictional realm of possibilities.
Originally Posted by:Tennessee Gentleman
they make gun owners look like kooks when people read themTo those who see gun owners as kooks, the conspiracy theories provide no additional ammunition. They already think that. And any theory, conspiracy or not, will not change their mind.

Conspiracy theories are the realm of possibilities. Unless they are backed up with facts, which they rarely are, they survive only to amuse the believer. When they become of a nature that they expound hatred, bigotry, anarchy, etc., then they cease to be theory of any sort. And become a platform of ideology. Which then I agree should be removed and stamped out.

But as I protect my 2nd Amendment Rights, so I honor the 1st Amendment. As long as it doesn't infringe on my right to speak.:D:D

KChen986
January 31, 2009, 06:01 PM
For some reason, the uninformed think touching a gun will turn people in to raging maniacs.

I say delete them, so that people who come across here see us for who we are: balanced, thoughtful people who enjoy guns.

Leaving up the conspiracy threads may help anti-gunners confirm their bias, and I'm not for that.

Playboypenguin
January 31, 2009, 06:31 PM
To those who see gun owners as kooks, the conspiracy theories provide no additional ammunition. They already think that. And any theory, conspiracy or not, will not change their mind.
You are making the fatal mistake of assuming "everyone hates us already, so why care how we come across." The vast majority of people have no opinions regarding gun control what-so-ever. Like the people I have introduced to shooting and then tried to introduce to the forums. They come here with a positive opinions of guns but then leave with a negative opinion of gun owners.

IZinterrogator
January 31, 2009, 07:29 PM
Delete them. They're nothing but noise, put gun owners in a bad light, and take up valuable space on the server that could be used to discuss important manners such as 9mm vs. .45ACP or 1911 vs. Glock. ;)

Vanya
January 31, 2009, 07:45 PM
I voted to delete them.

What PBP said in his first post:
They really do detract from the mission of this board to promote healthy and safe firearms ownership and to portray gun owners in a positive light.

I'm often amused by them, but that's not really the point. Leaving them up, even locked, gives some of these nutty ideas more exposure, and so more credibility with the faint-of-mind...

And, yes, ban repeat offenders.

Mike Irwin
January 31, 2009, 08:31 PM
I'm just going to say one thing in general about conspiracy theories.

Large, overreaching conspiracies are always false.

Until they are proven to be true.

Two that pop immediately to mind...

The Government's testing of nuclear materials, including plutonium, on unsuspecting citizens in the 1950s.

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, where syphilis suffers, most of them poor and black, were denied treatments that could cure them simply because government doctors wanted to watch the disease progress naturally.

We've talked about conspiracy theories here before, and one thing I cautioned then was don't be so quick to label every outlandish sounding conspiracy theory as being total hokum.

Yes, they probably are, especially when they're "backed up" with "proof" like The Towers were brought down in controlled demolition blasts, not by the airplanes, because the air planes would have caused them to tip over like trees, or it's a conspiracy because no structural steel building has ever collapsed because of fire before.

But we know that our government keeps secrets. And it's always good to ask what might those secrets be hiding.

nate45
January 31, 2009, 08:46 PM
Since it was reopened to the unwashed masses, in general, the overall quality content of the Law and Civil Rights forum has declined.

This decline includes the starting of threads that clearly don't fit the guidelines and parameters of the new L&CR forum (conspiracy, blatantly political, etc). However, the quality has also been diminished, by some persons, who feel the need to post even though they clearly lack sufficient knowledge of the subject and/or the writing skills needed for making lucid, meaningful contributions.

So while the moderators have been doing a good job, especially since the addition of Mike Irwin to the staff, my suggestion would be to delete the offending post and to PM the offender with a stern warning and a strong suggestion that they read and understand the rules. I also think the same should be done with off topic posts and ones which contain an embarrassing lack of command of the english language and/or knowledge of the subject at hand.

kirpi97
January 31, 2009, 09:17 PM
PlayboypenguinYou are making the fatal mistake of assuming "everyone hates us already, so why care how we come across." The vast majority of people have no opinions regarding gun control what-so-ever. Like the people I have introduced to shooting and then tried to introduce to the forums. They come here with a positive opinions of guns but then leave with a negative opinion of gun owners.
I never once assumed or believed that "everyone" hates us. That in itself would be a conspiracy theory. Only that those, who are already predisposed to want to ban guns, reading, a little conspiracy thread, is not going to sway them one way or the other.

Here I beg to take exception. I do not believe, in the world in which we live today, that a "vast majority" of Americans have "no" opinion concerning gun rights. If that were the case, the NRA and others just as well fold up their tents and go home. The majority of Americans do have an opinion. And thank God it is for the right to own and bear arms. The day that changes your conspiracy theorists may have a point.

How many of your friends have entered this forum with a positive opinion of gun owners and because of a conspiracy thread they left with a negative opinion? Not one friend, that I introduced to this forum, has left this forum because of a conspiracy theory thread. If they don't wish to read it, they don't. And most of the time, like myself, we don't even find the silly thread to begin with. Please provide specifics. If we have lost members due to these threads, then you have grounds to show cause.

The only clown I am aware of that left the forum in a huff was a clown who posted a conspiracy thread and was shot down by the members. The members themselves are the best policing we have. They will do more to show that we are not kooks. And when these clowns leave, we have lost nothing. We granted them their rights and we exercised our rights.

So as you can see. I am for neither option. I could care less if they are deleted. But I really do not wish them to remain on the site "locked" from retorts from the members. If we cannot respond to demonstrate the foolishness of their premise, then there is no benefit with the post even being displayed. The right of the people to condemn ignorance is a right I support.:D:D:D

Here is an example of what I mean. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335136This thread has been terminated. So leaving it hanging there does no real service. It may give the impression that we have a few loons. But by not allowing a rebuttal, one is left with only one side. We can limit conspiracy theorist and theories to their own forum. And place up a caution sign, "Check aluminum foil hats, common sense, and your intelligence at the door." And then let the members choose to indulge or not. I think for the most part, there will be hurt feelings. But we will weed out the kooks.

I am beginning to change my mind to deleting them all together as I am beginning to see no real solution.


We can agree to disagree concerning these points. That is what I love about this site and this country.:D

Dust Monkey
January 31, 2009, 11:10 PM
I say leave them for everybody to read. When folks on this forum debunk said discussions, it speaks volumes, letting any lurkers know that we pro gunners do not think in that manner. It will serve to bring attention that we will not tolerate tin foil hat material. Let's show them who we are by policing ourselves.

Al Norris
January 31, 2009, 11:32 PM
This thread has been terminated. So leaving it hanging there does no real service.
Actually, most closed threads do serve a purpose. It lets the general membership know what is acceptable and what is not.

Many people don't need to be told. Some need an example ... or two. Some few others simply won't get it and end up being shown the door.

Then there's always the nube. They blast onto the scene with their hyper important news, only to be shot down, because they haven't bothered to look at the thread titles on the first index page, let alone do a search.

Then there are the type of folk who absolutely have to argue about what someone else said, when the topic of the thread is what do you, the general members of TFL, want us mods of L&CR to do with conspiracy threads.

You kirpi97, don't agree with PBP. So? That's off topic, and you've done your best to drag the thread with you.

Ordinarily, I would just delete your post and send you a warning. But since this entire thread is off topic (and an experiment, to boot), I'll just leave it as is. Any questions or responses, should be sent via PM, not this thread.

Wildalaska
February 1, 2009, 12:31 AM
Oy, try to be haimish and the schleppers come out of the woodwork!

Actually Al the correct term would be kibbitzer instead of shlepper. To shlep is to move slowly :)

You are a heymish mensch though :)

WildtheresidentschtarkerAlaska TM

Sorry to argue with you, but wouldnt want Chuckie Schumer to think we are not only conspiracy loons, but poor yiddish speakers too ;)

Shell
February 1, 2009, 01:06 AM
I agree with: they take up space and we can't respond, so.....

hillbillyshooter
February 1, 2009, 02:15 AM
so what is the leftist version of a black helicopter theorist?= www.BradyCampaign.org

voted to lock and keep them, but would rather like to see them argued and dispelled

Big Don
February 1, 2009, 02:29 AM
I voted to leave them twisting in the wind. We will always have the ham-handed types that, as Al said, can't wait to get the latest news onto the forum and don't bother to do a search first. Let them learn by having the thread locked, pronto, so their public embarrassment is there for all to see.
Yes, we will have those who don't care and they'll be shown the door, hopefully to never darken it again. I receive gobs of emails concerning the latest "outrage" and have used TFL to debunk some because of the number of people who read and contribute here. The locked threads help me with that chore and if they're cast into the ether, I won't necessarily know what the status is of that particular "outrage."
Leave 'em hanging at the castle gate and run the OP through with a sharp PM from the mods. :eek:

Fremmer
February 1, 2009, 03:07 AM
Instead of just locking these threads, and leaving them as land mines throughout the section, why not just delete them? They really do detract from the mission of this board to promote healthy and safe firearms ownership and to portray gun owners in a positive light.


Our members are intelligent enough to realize what constitutes a "conspiracy thread", and to make up their own minds about how seriously to take every thread. They do not require additional deletion, content review, or any additional post-locking limitation on the expression of ideas, as unpopular as they may be. We are free men who can make up our own minds without the purported aid of a deletion-babysitter.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, especially the mods or the owner of this Forum. But I would respectfully assert that we've got plenty of thread-locking already, and additional action is neither necessary nor beneficial.

By the way, the mainstream media and/or those who hate guns are not going to be swayed by the the content of this Forum, rational, irrational, cospiratorial, or otherwise. And many Americans are simply ambivalent about the Second Amendment/guns/hunting/etc. But we should not censor the content of our ideas in a vain effort to satisfy people who really are not worried about what we say here in the first place. And the others are going to want "sensible" and "common-sense" gun control, no matter what we say.

Locking a conspiracy thread (especially with a mod comment about the prohibition against conspiracy threads) is the perfect remedy, and additional censorship in the form of deletion is both unwarranted and harmful to the free exchange of ideas in a dedicated firearms community.

JMHO. And thanks for letting me freely express my opinion on this matter.

OuTcAsT
February 1, 2009, 01:16 PM
I voted in favor of deleting the posts for reasons someone else put quite eloquently:


I really do not wish them to remain on the site "locked" from retorts from the members. If we cannot respond to demonstrate the foolishness of their premise, then there is no benefit

Tom Servo
February 2, 2009, 02:44 PM
I voted for deletion. They don't really add any real knowledge that people can use, just alot of finger-pointing and "what ifs."

Of course, the Mayan calendar ends on 2012, and some asteroid is going to hit the earth. If you're not already in league with the Secret Alien Cabal That Runs Everything, you're out of luck, anyhow, so it's all moot. :)

Glenn E. Meyer
February 2, 2009, 02:48 PM
I originally was for locking but seeing how the Revolution thread went down the drain - I'm switching to deleting. They just bring out the worst.

Wildalaska
February 2, 2009, 03:16 PM
I'd like to see the endless and duplicative "ALERT-HR (insert number here) to Confiscate all Guns Introduced in House" threads deleted too

One is OK, 15 trillion are boring

WildboringAlaska ™

44 AMP
February 2, 2009, 11:26 PM
which most aren't. I will admit a small degree of frustration not being able to reply to a closed thread, especially when I have a killer answer that is sure to make all of them see the light. Oh well.

Leave them or delete them, I care not, there are equally valid arguments both ways.

I would like to point out that conspiracies have, and do exist. That cannot, and should not be denied. Where the trouble comes in is those theories which have the "root cause" as something beyond what we consider reasonable or rational. Those are the ones called kooks. And most are. BUT...

As pointed out already, some of the things that have been done, and are being done are conspiracies, even if they are not being done by giant space ants.

bclark1
February 2, 2009, 11:46 PM
I abstained from voting, because as was pointed out, it's ambiguous what a "conspiracy thread" is. WA put it well in that worrying that someone's watching is paranoid in and of itself. Mike Irwin goes to the other side but makes an equally strong point - just because it's far-featched doesn't mean it's not true. If you'd have told me two years ago that we'd be throwing around a trillion dollars, fast-tracked to try to hide that 3/4 is baloney, I'd have probably looked at you a little funny. Ultimately, reasonable people will differ (same ol', I know :p). I would certainly like to see the more detrimental (for lack of a better word) threads - revolution, 9/11 "truth", alien coverup and anything suggestive of an honest politician in Chicago - deleted outright. But then again, I may be an inadequate judge of what is detrimental.

So I'm no help. But if we're doing something with them, I guess I would favor deletion over locking, because a prompt locking does not allow the board members - who I would aggregate as reasonable - to "wash" the thread and inject some well-thought counterpoints into it for the record. While merely locking it makes the point that it's not tolerated, it still leaves an otherwise undisputed negative artifact in the archives indefinitely. I didn't vote it though because I'm not convinced that it's necessary to do something unless they otherwise violate the board rules, which they tend to do anyway.

OnTheFly
February 3, 2009, 12:02 AM
I voted to lock but keep them. It might have a few benefits...


These posts help define limits and may allow us to measure our ranking in the world of sanity.
When others who visit TFL see that the mods don't allow posts from left field, they understand that the drive of the forum and the majority of the members are not that radical.

I'm not too passionate about the subject either way because I've already mastered the mind control techniques necessary to thwart the government experiments which employ aliens to read my thoughts. :rolleyes:

Fly

JuanCarlos
February 3, 2009, 03:23 PM
Assuming this sub-forum is indexed by google (and I assume that, like the rest of the forums, it is) I'd say we should be mindful about how much junk we let our crazy uncles leave in our front yard.

I'd say the optimal solution would be to leave them until they drop off the front page, both so we can all share a good double-u-tee-eff and to serve as an example to any new members who might need an example of what not to do.

No need to leave them longer, because if said newb isn't going to read the rules sticky he's not going to go much past the front page looking for cautionary notes (and wouldn't get it even if he did). Leaving them longer just raises the odds that TFL will come higher up when somebody punches "black helicopter" into google.

However, that's probably more a pain in the butt than it's worth (keeping track of them, that is) for the mod staff, so I say we just nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Creature
February 3, 2009, 03:29 PM
I'd say the optimal solution would be to leave them until they drop off the front page, both so we can all share a good double-u-tee-eff and to serve as an example to any new members who might need an example of what not to do.

I agree with this sentiment and the solution.

coltncat
February 4, 2009, 10:41 AM
Put them in their own spot, and if anyone wants to view that type of thing; they can get all they want there. Let's not mix them into laws and rights. They are opinions ...

Al Norris
February 4, 2009, 12:58 PM
TFL has never been a conspiracy board, regardless of the number of posts, and opinions, that might cause someone to think otherwise. There are many places on the interwebs where you may go to read and/or comment upon such. TFL is not that place.

With that, firmly in mind, we are not entertaining even a hint of a place to put such... except perhaps the trashcan. Hence the advisory poll for this thread.

kirpi97
February 4, 2009, 01:10 PM
I will not add anything here because it gets me in trouble. But as I read through this thread, I realize we are no closer to a resounding resolution. Back in the beginning, when I voted, it was 5 - 5 for and against. Now it is 33 - 34. Good luck taking this one to the board for a decision. I hope you have an odd number on the court. 'Cause I am seeing a 5 - 4 decision.:rolleyes:

34 to 34 I like it.

Al Norris
February 6, 2009, 08:52 AM
Ah, but remember kirpi97, those who voted who do not post regularly in this area of the board, will not count as heavily as those who do post in this section, regularly.

Like all data points, some votes are given more weight than others.

Big Don
February 12, 2009, 07:24 PM
;) As in "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others?" :D

kirpi97
February 13, 2009, 02:25 AM
OK, where are the hanging chads? :eek:

Here I thought the idea was to vote and vote often. This way one person could sway the outcome. And now you are telling me it ain't so. That is so unAmerican. Even "Dancing with the Stars" gives one five votes. I learned my politics on the east side of Chicago. And with a few more deceased members voting and I could be a contender.:D

If I gain a little more weight, will that help my vote carry more? :rolleyes:

Are we getting any closer to a decision on the initial question? I see a few Staff members voicing their position.

EricReynolds
February 18, 2009, 09:25 PM
I must admit that I find them entertaining, but it perpetuates the stereotypes of gun enthusiasts being paranoid delusional people. Gun people who believe that the government is trying to control us all, are not our best representatives.

OuTcAsT
February 18, 2009, 09:33 PM
it perpetuates the stereotypes of gun enthusiasts being paranoid delusional people

The voices in my head tell me otherwise.

OnTheFly
February 18, 2009, 09:40 PM
The voices in my head tell me otherwise.

Don't worry. You're not paranoid or delusional. You're schizophrenic! :D

Fly

Glenn E. Meyer
February 20, 2009, 11:05 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,496309,00.html

Prepare for the robot conspiracy. Now can you imagine that thread. What round for robots? Do we need FA for robots. Is Cheney the first wave? Is Arnold really Ar-nuhld? I fought the robots when I was a Navy Seal.

Gaxicus
February 21, 2009, 06:08 PM
Seems to me that if the board is sanitized, people running into conspiracy stuff wont have a decent place to learn the truth. Just the kook boards. Is that helping?

Being afraid to discuss this stuff here or anywhere else is volentarily silencing ourselves.

I dont blame the moderators for being burned out with the same threads coming up so often. Instead of closing threads and forbidding people to talk about this stuff, make a sticky thread that fleshes out the details of the particular issue and, if they come up, people can refer them to the sticky.

Driving people to kook boards and silencing people looking to this board for decent info isnt helping gun owners, it is silencing them and feeding the conspiracies.

Wildalaska
February 21, 2009, 06:14 PM
Seems to me that if the board is sanitized, people running into conspiracy stuff wont have a decent place to learn the truth. Just the kook boards. Is that helping?

If a person is visiting "kook boards" for information then any debunking here makes no difference.

Its the GreenCheese Conundrum.:D

I would hope this Board remains a place for normal gunowners to hang out. Plenty of places for the "others" to go

WildrobotsatemyfleshAlaska ™

El Paso Joe
February 21, 2009, 07:43 PM
I voted to lock but leave in view. After a number of years as a mental health professional in an isolated rural area, I think I have heard them all. But clearly I haven't. I know the Air Force is not spraying mind control agents from high flying aircraft. And I don't often give much credence to folks with tinfoil hats (actually had one as a colleague in grad school - until he was arrested for contraband herbage). But I would rather that everything be in the open and let folks read them for whatever reason.

TheNatureBoy
February 21, 2009, 07:50 PM
Conspiracy theory threads are entertaining for a few minutes but after that..... I pay more attention to the responses than anything else. Kooky and scary at the same time because these people are serious. I say allow for responses but lock them if it gets too crazy. It takes so called experts and kooks to make this whole thing work anyway. This board is filled with both.

Hey El Paso Joe, are you sure the Air Force isn't spraying mind control agents from high flying aircraft? I live down the street from Langley, AFB and I've heard rumors.

David Armstrong
February 28, 2009, 03:27 PM
Lock them and delete them. There is enough bad information and phony reality running around the 'net without adding to it.

Double J
March 1, 2009, 11:04 AM
Just read all this stuff and still haven't a clue what a Conspiracy Thread is?

kirpi97
March 1, 2009, 11:40 PM
Okay, you win. I have my tin foil hat on, two uncoiled metal coat hangers for my antennae, and a kazoo to signal the mother ship. All I need now are the flashing lights. And those cute men in the funny white coats.:D

computerguysd
March 2, 2009, 11:14 PM
I've haven't been as active on the board lately as I probably should be, but still consider this one of my main forums. That said, I would have voted to delete them, because I don't want to see the board tainted by anything that lessens our credibility as responsible gun owners. The anti gunners are LIARS and regularly twist reports from the MSM to their liking. If TFL is presented as a conspiracy board and we have plenty of threads that give credence to the claim, we lose ground.

The anti gunners will use and abuse any source they find to promote their cause. Observe the following quote from the anti gunners, the reference in USA Today that's SLIGHTly more accurate and then the following links for further details of "James Ramsey", the "money quote" they all use regarding the sale of fully automatic weapons at gun shows (the GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE).

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence & Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:4ANe948334AJ:www.csgv.org/atf/cf/%257B23E96A35-4C75-41EE-BDDD-4BD3A3B59010%257D/CSGV%25202007%2520Gun%2520Show%2520Memo.pdf+James+Ramey+gun+show&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
James Ramey, a gun show vendor from Texas, has described how gang members purchase firearms at gun shows in border cities: “They send over a scout on Saturday to see if there’s anything they want, then they show up on Sunday with a big wad of money and somebody who’s got a clean record, who’s legal to buy.”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-01-18-mexico-arms_x.htm
James Ramey of Little Rock, works about 50 U.S. gun shows a year, selling $30 gadgets that turn any assault rifle into a machine gun. He explained how the Mexican gangs buy their weapons at weekend shows in border cities.

"They send over a scout on Saturday to see if there's anything they want," he said. "Then they show up on Sunday with a big wad of money and somebody who's got a clean record, who's legal to buy."

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=13097.0;wap2
James Ramey of Little Rock, Ark., was selling Hellfire and Autoburst trigger activation devices, $30 gadgets that turn any assault rifle into a rat-a-tatting machine gun.

Ramey works about 50 gun shows a year. He explained how the Mexican gangs buy their weapons at weekend shows in border cities.
"They send over a scout on Saturday to see if there's anything they want," he said. "Then they show up on Sunday with a big wad of money and somebody who's got a clean record, who's legal to buy."

Al Norris
March 2, 2009, 11:46 PM
The poll closed this morning, and I've forgotten to close the thread, until now.

The L&CR mods will take into consideration the poll and your responses in making our decision. Thank you all, who participated.