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BMW Racer
January 29, 2009, 10:07 AM
I was driving on a local interstate last night, in the middle of three lanes. Heavy traffic but everone was moving along, doing their thing. I saw that the far right lane was ending just ahead and the Magnum wagon to my right (his rear bumper was about at my passenger door) needed to move into my lane pretty soon so I looked in the left side mirror to move over one lane. There was a car just ahead of me in the middle lane, and just behind me so if I move over to the left lane, the Magnum can have my spot in the middle lane. The Magnum then turned on his left turn signal.

I see a Mercedes coming up in the left lane but he's still about 10 car lengths behind. I signal left, let it flash twice, and move to the left lane (still signalling) to make room for the Magnum, which immediately sees me move over and then takes my spot in the middle lane. It takes a few seconds for the Merc to catch up and he drives right up to my rear bumper. There is a car right in front of me but it is moving past the slower cars in the right lane. I see that the Merc driver wants to get past but I'm boxed-in. I then turn on my right signal to let the Merc driver know that I'm planning to move to the right lane as soon as there is room. After we get past a couple of cars in the right lane, I move over. The Merc starts to pass me so everything's cool. After a few seconds, I notice that the Merc is matching my speed, right besdie me. I glace over and the Merc driver is looking at me, mouth going fast. I guess he's angry that I moved into the left lane but I didn't "cut him off," I signalled, and I was making room for the Magnum.

I teach high performance driving, teen driving programs, and sports car racing and we always tell teenagers to ignore a "road rager" because it's the best way to defuse the situation. So, I looked back at the road and continued at about 5 over the speed limit, in the right lane. The Merc stays right beside me for several more seconds. I then look over again (no gestures, not talking) and the guy swerves at my car. Having years of racing experience, I have driven door-handle-to-door-handle at over 130 mph so this guy's move didn't faze me at all, although I did smoothly move to the right just a little. He probably thought he would intimidate/scare me but I didn't flinch.

Then, I cooley looked over at him again. Well, my lack of reaction to his swerve really ****** him off and he started weaving, just because he was in such a rage.

I slowed down a little, to get some distance from him. He exited at the next ramp.

Interestingly, I had picked up my CC Permit that morning and had my Ruger P89 in the driver door pocket. But I never considered pulling it out, and I'm a little glad to know that I reacted that way. By nature, I'm not a "hot head" but none of us knows exactly how we are going to react in certain stressful situations. And while I wasn't scared or nervous, it was definitely stressful.

thawntex
January 29, 2009, 10:31 AM
You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?

I'm no driving instructor, but I know that making eye contact with a road rager is a definite no-no. If ignoring him would've defused the situation, we can only assume that acknowledging him would escalate it, right?

No sane person would produce a gun under the circumstances you describe, so exactly what kind of response do you expect from your post?

-T

Dustin0
January 29, 2009, 10:33 AM
I have had things like that happen to me. I only had to pull my pistol out once. Kind of the same thing but on surface streets when we got up the light the guy got out with a knife. He did learn dont bring a knife to a gun fight. I did not have to fire. He lost his will to fight when found out I had a weapon. Just remember to stay calm. If you do pull your weapon be ready willing and able to us it.

DieHard06
January 29, 2009, 11:05 AM
You handled the situation very well. Be thankful you don't live in the northeast where stuff like this happens a lot. It is great that your first thought wasn't reaching for your gun.

You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?

I'm no driving instructor, but I know that making eye contact with a road rager is a definite no-no. If ignoring him would've defused the situation, we can only assume that acknowledging him would escalate it, right?

There are going to be times when you have to look. I don't know what you are talking about. Had he not looked he might have been too late when the guy swerved toward him. What it the other guy had produced a gun? He wouldn't have known it if hadn't looked. Checking out what the other guy is doing is often necessary. Also, ignoring a person who is trying to get your atttention will infuriate some, not that starring him down will be much better.

NavyLT
January 29, 2009, 12:03 PM
Interestingly, I had picked up my CC Permit that morning and had my Ruger P89 in the driver door pocket. But I never considered pulling it out,

That's good, because you had NO legal basis to "pull it out". You could have found yourself without that CC permit rather quickly.

Bud Helms
January 29, 2009, 12:09 PM
Tactics & Training ... moving.

csmsss
January 29, 2009, 12:14 PM
That's good, because you had NO legal basis to "pull it out". You could have found yourself without that CC permit rather quickly.He had no basis to display it to the other driver. But he could very well have had good reason to position the pistol in a more accessible position in case he needed to quickly exit the car. For all he knew, the other driver could have pushed him off the road and attempted to further assault him.

hogdogs
January 29, 2009, 12:16 PM
I ignore road ragers until they get "frisky" like threatening to ram my ride... I assure you I can find room for some extra scratches on my trucks so them folks may get more than they bargained for... I wouldn't pull the gun either but I would fall for his attempts to get his mug rearranged!:mad:
Brent

thawntex
January 29, 2009, 12:25 PM
There are going to be times when you have to look. I don't know what you are talking about. Had he not looked he might have been too late when the guy swerved toward him. What it the other guy had produced a gun? He wouldn't have known it if hadn't looked. Checking out what the other guy is doing is often necessary. Also, ignoring a person who is trying to get your atttention will infuriate some, not that starring him down will be much better

I'd be happy to clarify my statement, DieHard06.

I was referring specifically to eye contact. You can observe a vehicle without looking directly at the driver. We do it all the time by glancing at our mirrors and using peripheral vision. The OP stated that he looked at the Mercedes driver three times. It might seem non-confrontational, but to me it contradicts his own instructions that it is best to ignore a road rager.

It only took me a second to find this article from a Wisconsin Sheriff's office about road rage. About two-thirds of the way down you will see the "Do not make eye contact" rule.

http://www.danesheriff.com/road_rage.html

-T

NavyLT
January 29, 2009, 12:29 PM
I tend to agree with thawntex, not that it's worth anything more than what you are paying for it! (and agree with csmsss, except that if I am going to carry a firearm, there would never be a need to reposition it to make it more readily accessible as that is where I carry it to begin with).

anythingshiny
January 29, 2009, 12:29 PM
your reaction was spot on...de-escalate and leave the situation. even brandishing a nug in that situation would have bad things headed your way...

rage drivers are the worst..and it sounds like you really did not do anything unusual and were actually a thoughtful driver to move over...nc is terrible for short merge lanes.

NavyLT
January 29, 2009, 12:40 PM
even brandishing a nug in that situation

"Back off, or I will give you one he** of a noogie!"

Main Entry: noog·ie
Pronunciation: \nu-gē\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1972
: the act of rubbing one's knuckles on a person's head so as to produce a mildly painful sensation

SW1911CT
January 29, 2009, 12:44 PM
If someone intentionally rams into your car, especially more than once, I think you outta be able to start firing back! Wouldn't that be assault with a deadly weapon? When I'm watching police chases on tv and the perp makes a move like that at either a cop with spike strips outside his car or at the pursuing officers they take that as an escalation to either ram them off the road or shoot at them

George PT-111
January 29, 2009, 12:49 PM
I would never pull out a pistol in such situation, only and only if the situation would get more severe like the driver would come out of the car at the trafic light or something even then unless I feel I am in a real trouble i wouldn't pull it out.

DieHard06
January 29, 2009, 01:15 PM
I'd be happy to clarify my statement

Thank you. I understood what you were saying. When I read his story, I took it as he was glancing over to see what the driver was presently doing not necessarily making eye contact. I am sorry if I came off as rude.

kinseyd
January 29, 2009, 01:41 PM
BWMRacer, good story. I've wondered how I would react in a similar situation, and have not yet gotten a CCW, partly for this reason. It sounds like you made good decisions - maybe not perfect in hindsight, but good job. I wonder about the home that guy was going back to.
Don

Bailey4765
January 29, 2009, 02:34 PM
I carry a 1911 in condition 3 and probably would have gone to condition 1. Whenever things just don't seem right, I go, mentally, to condition orange. I am almost always in condition yellow.


For the overly politically correct types:

I would not brandish the pistol, the slide would be cycled out of road ragers view.

I am perfectly within my rights to employ condition 1 on my carry gun.

I would apply deadly force only as a last resort.

NavyLT
January 29, 2009, 03:30 PM
Bailey4765,

Just curious as to the reasoning for carrying condition 3? My reasoning for condition 1 is:

1. What if my weak hand/arm is injured or otherwise unavailable?

2. Time and extra motion required to rack the slide will give more opportunity and reason for an armed BG to shoot first. IE: they see me rack the slide so it clues them in that I intend to shoot them. If I can draw and fire without racking the slide, it may be that I get the first shot away before they realize that I intend to shoot them.

3. A SAO such as, for all intents and purposes, my PT145 or a 1911 is designed to be safely carried in condition 1 without fear of AD.

(Yes, I know the PT145 will fire DA, but there is no way to decock it)

Bailey4765
January 29, 2009, 04:37 PM
Just curious as to the reasoning for carrying condition 3?

I just do not like a Cond 1 SA auto in my pants and am somewhat lazy about going from 1 to 3, 3 to 1 when going from my car to concealed and back again.

+1 on one handed manipulation of weapons. I practice this.

One handed manipulation.
One handed racking is easy. I know you know what this is, at least they used to teach it in the Navy. If you have a Novak rear sight on your .45, one handed racking is not so easy. There has been quite a bit of discussion on this and that is why I would never use stock Novaks on a pistol, even on a DA auto, which I have no problem sticking in my pants cond 1. Any auto may jam and if I only have one arm, I am going to do everything possible to get my weapon back into the fight.

Presentation, 3 vs 1
Here's what I do
As the pistol is presented to the target, instead of the non firing hand going to it's normal position with a two handed hold, the slide is grasped and the non firing hand stops as the pistol continues its forward movement, effectively slingshotting the slide and the trigger is instantaneously pulled. It is very fast but takes practice to be nearly as fast as cond 1.

a 1911 is designed to be safely carried in condition 1 without fear of AD.

I agree with this, but I really do not like a cond 1 SA auto stuck in my pants.

To each his own and I respect your reasoning for carrying cond 1.

#18indycolts
January 29, 2009, 04:43 PM
troll alert

thirdeagle
January 29, 2009, 05:02 PM
Not sure who you're referring to as a "troll." Everything here seems to be on the up-and-up.

I'd say it's obvious that brandishing a firearm would have been a poor choice. You did good to maintain awareness of the situation without being overtly confrontational. A driver who is not constantly scanning and checking mirrors is, IMHO, NOT a very good driver. That includes maintaining awareness of other vehicles, and if need be, other drivers.

NavyLT
January 29, 2009, 05:32 PM
They don't teach single hand racking the slide anymore. In the Navy or Army. I went to Army basic training in 1984 with the 1911. Navy training from 1988 to present with the M-9, including an active weapons issuance card from 2004 to 2007. Then prior to deploying Iraq, Army combat training again at Ft. Dix in 2008. I would be curious to know what it is, though, and wonder if it was actually a procedure specified in the manuals or just an instructors "extra knowledge" :D

KLRANGL
January 29, 2009, 07:31 PM
Carrying a firearm has certainly calmed me down. Before, I would play along with road ragers for my own personal enjoyment. The best is waving at them with a big smile. They HATE that :p... Using the rear windshield cleaner is a good one too...
But now, I just ignore them... No sense getting myself in trouble at the same time...

I am curious about the law behind threatening to ram someones car with your own, and whether it is considered assault or the like... Either way, if someone did that, the police would be called and their plate number given asap.

ActivShootr
January 29, 2009, 09:03 PM
I am curious about the law behind threatening to ram someones car with your own, and whether it is considered assault or the like...

It is considered assault in most jurisdictions, however, starting a rolling firefight in rush-hour traffic would be frowned upon by the same courts.

I think evasive action is the first order of business. Try to outrun/outdrive him first. If the other driver blocks your escape and is attempting to harm you, only then should the use of firearms be considered.

Remember, a vehicle can be just as powerful a weapon as a gun. It can provide cover, concealment, and a means of escape. In a road rage situation, I would use my car first, my gun last.

gollbladder13
January 29, 2009, 10:22 PM
IMHO (which probably isn't worth too much ;) ... ), you probably didn't think of it since you just got your CC that day. There's no telling whether the road-rager was carrying, either, and although clam and collected is far better than enraged, you never know. The guy might have had nothing to lose, and showing may have just worsened everything.

I don't know how LEOs down there handle driving down in NC, but if that happened here in WI, the driver in your position probably would have caught the plate numbers and made a call to the cops (I've been on both ends of that one!).

Bailey4765
January 30, 2009, 08:23 AM
Try to outrun/outdrive him first.
If I was sure the road rager was trying to ram me and that was the only viable option due to the positions of other vehicles, that may be the only course of action. Letting him get past you may give you the tactical advantage though. Lots of options in this situation.

They don't teach single hand racking the slide anymore...........................I would be curious to know what it is, though, and wonder if it was actually a procedure specified in the manuals or just an instructors "extra knowledge" :D

I guess for a lot of instructors it would just be extra knowledge, depending on the level of instruction they are trained to administer. The liability involved in teaching concealed carry presentation, much less one handed weapons manipulation, requires a somewhat advanced combat pistol instructor.

I believe the earliest use of one handed racking started out with the old M1917 holster with personnel carrying cond 3. The pistol is partially drawn and the grip is turned 90 degrees with the top of the slide towards the body. The pistol is then pushed in toward the body then downward. The rear sight digs into the flap of the holster, holding the slide captive as the grip frame moves downward. The pistol is then quickly drawn upward effectively chambering a round and the presentation to the target is continued.

This method was further modified by using anything available that could capture the rear sight with enough of a purchase to cycle the pistol.

All the Gunners Mates I have talked to that were active during the era of the .45 in standard service knew this technique, but I do not believe I ever asked them where they learned it.

Kind of long winded on this, but you asked and I felt the least I could do was provide a reasonable explanation of the technique.

KLRANGL
January 30, 2009, 08:51 AM
Try to outrun/outdrive him first.

I have to question the logic of outrunning someone with road rage. First off, that means you end up breaking traffic laws. Second, there is no guarantee you will end up being able to evade said person. Thirdly, add more speed with someone trying to potentially drive you off the road, and you could end up in a bad accident.
I think it would almost be better to pull over to the side of the road. If they were just angry, they would just drive on. If they intended you harm, it just seems that being stationary with a gun is safer than speeding in a car around innocents.
Now if you can loose the person by, like the OP did, taking an exit or what not, running away is always the better option. I just dont feel like speeding away is the best move...

Glock_fan
January 30, 2009, 03:37 PM
You guys are right; it was entirely the OP's fault for
1. Being a courteous driver
2. Watching to make sure the other driver didn't escalate things more than they already were
3. Keeping a cool head

The OP was simply sharing a story, and you guys try to flip it on him like he made some kind of mistake. You are reading too much into this story. I've seen this happen on TFL before. Everybody needs to relax.

OldMarksman
January 30, 2009, 10:31 PM
The OP was simply sharing a story, and you guys try to flip it on him like he made some kind of mistake.

If there has been a mistake, it lies in his having posted this on a gun forum. Antis have for years expressed concern about road rage resulting in gunfire. Didn't happen here, but if it hadn't been within the realm of possibility, what was the point of posting this in the first place?

Guns aside--had there been an accident, how might the OP's actions be judged in terms of contributing negligence, or worse?

The OP's post is indelible and as the saying goes, "can and will be used against you." Or us, as the case may be.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

We need to consider what we say here--beforehand.

chinpokojed
January 31, 2009, 10:49 PM
Good to see another instructor around here! Do you drive a Spec E30 in NASA-MA?

Not sure what everyone's getting so worked up about, it sounds like everything turned out alright. No bent up sheetmetal, no holes in you (or the other person), and no police involvement.. I've had worse days!

Nnobby45
January 31, 2009, 11:08 PM
You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?


I'm not sure that completely ignoring someone who pulls up next to you is a wise thing. He's already escalated things whether you look at him or not. Can't speak for everyone, but looking to see what he's up to seems like common sense to me. Maybe check things out and then ignore him.

We've all got stories like that. A gun shouldn't be an issue. Can't tell you how many times a driver got impatient with me when I was going just as fast as the car in front of me. Some people get mad when you leave a safe cushion and aren't tailgating the car in front of you like he's doing to you. I've been running into some pretty agressive gals lately, also.

I agree, that guns shouldn't be part of the discussion. However, things have escalated to something serious over less.

I too, have changed lanes in what I thought was plenty of time, only to have the driver behind me indicate his displeasure by coming up fast behind and tailgating---just like happened to BMW.

Nothing usually comes of it because the driver probably does that all the time to many people---but you never know.:cool:

jesus5150
January 31, 2009, 11:39 PM
Carrying a firearm has certainly calmed me down. Before, I would play along with road ragers for my own personal enjoyment.

That's Perfect.... I can't describe how many times i've had someone road bully me. And it would always end in either a Freeway race (once you rode my bumper, i'd floor it and let my turbo spool to it's content when you try to pass... Which has resulted in a $1100 ticket for going 141mph), or a Fist fight at the nearest light(which i've won and lost countless times). But NOW those things don't even enter my mind. I'm no longer on a quest to prove that i'm the toughest or the fastest... If someone flies up on my bumper, i'll just pull over. They flip me off, or call me names... But I know that if i get out or encourage them, the odds of them pulling a weapon and putting me into a self inflicted defense situation sky-rocket. And i'll shoot to defend myself, but only if theres no other way out. I may get hot headed but I when think about having my USP in my posession I immediately feel sobered and humble. Period.

Cobra_Jet
February 1, 2009, 12:31 AM
I agree with Glock Fan, you guys are acting like he actually shot the guy trying to ram him off the road. I wouldn't think a bunch of guys who own guns (who I hope are level headed) would be so aggressive to a person just posting a story. We are supposed to be the cool heads of society, not the furry fingered internet bullies that torment forums.

I think the rule "If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" should be applied here.

DieHard06
February 1, 2009, 09:30 AM
I'm not sure that completely ignoring someone who pulls up next to you is a wise thing. He's already escalated things whether you look at him or not. Can't speak for everyone, but looking to see what he's up to seems like common sense to me. Maybe check things out and then ignore him.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to say, and Glockfan speaks the truth. We tend to flame a lot of people on their stories and this was his first post that wasn't a "gun for sale" post! Welcome to the forum.

thawntex
February 1, 2009, 04:12 PM
I agree with Glock Fan, you guys are acting like he actually shot the guy trying to ram him off the road. I wouldn't think a bunch of guys who own guns (who I hope are level headed) would be so aggressive to a person just posting a story. We are supposed to be the cool heads of society, not the furry fingered internet bullies that torment forums.

I think the rule "If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" should be applied here.

I would characterize many of the responses as constructive criticism, not aggression. No one has resorted to name-calling, threats, or personal attacks. How can you correlate a critical post with gun ownership? I'm certainly not going to shoot someone just because I disagree with him.

When you post a story on a forum, you solicit responses from the entire world. Not everyone will give you a big high five. The beauty of this forum is the opportunity it gives us to evaluate the actions of others, and to learn from their experiences. Conversely, we can learn from how others evaluate our stories.

You can be nice and still disagree with someone.

-T

ActivShootr
February 3, 2009, 02:41 PM
If I was sure the road rager was trying to ram me and that was the only viable option due to the positions of other vehicles, that may be the only course of action. Letting him get past you may give you the tactical advantage though. Lots of options in this situation.

Exactly. You don't have to be in front of someone to out drive them.

Milspec
February 3, 2009, 06:00 PM
While traveling through Wisconsin many years back we pulled into a rest area and were almost immediately blocked in by another car. The three passengers jumped out and starting yelling for us to get out of our car. We didn't have our CCW's back then...but I did have a really cherry M1 carbine... :D

My wife turned on the inside light as I locked and loaded a 30 round magazine. When last seen the other folks were exiting the rest area at high speed, leaving us with a new tire iron and a ratty aluminum baseball bat. Sometimes it's just handy to have a gun in the car... :)

Milspec

Mannlicher
February 3, 2009, 06:17 PM
Interesting thoughts, for a new member's second second post...................

dmwphoto
February 3, 2009, 06:22 PM
this is looking like a troll post to me...

BMW Racer
February 3, 2009, 10:43 PM
"this is looking like a troll post to me..."

Not at all. I've been away for a couple of days. I tried to get on last night, a couple of times, but couldn't. Was the site down for maintenance?

ps I looked for a "quote" button and couldn't find it so I did the cut-paste thing.

Socrates
February 3, 2009, 11:04 PM
Knowing that you have the edge, and, that if you use it, your chances of ending up in jail are about 100% tends to make for a polite society. For awhile in LA guys were opening up with Mac 10's, and that also made for much less road rage bull.

I've actually watched 3 kids hit my car, drunk, with Dad's van, in a parking lot, right in front of me. I played it through my mind, and, the dent in the car was far less painful then loosing my right to protect myself in Kali.

I NEVER want to pull a gun, period. But, I don't want to be the 1 in 17 every year that is a victim of violent crime, or less, in a couple major cities around, in which I work...

BMW Racer
February 3, 2009, 11:13 PM
"You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?

I'm no driving instructor, but I know that making eye contact with a road rager is a definite no-no. If ignoring him would've defused the situation, we can only assume that acknowledging him would escalate it, right?

No sane person would produce a gun under the circumstances you describe, so exactly what kind of response do you expect from your post?

-T"

Actually, I should have written it a little differently. I glanced over and then looked right back at the road, each time. He was right beside my car so the only way to have proper awareness was to briefly check his car's position, every few seconds. Yes, I did look at him very briefly but I was mainly watching his driving. And, it was at night so it's hard to know if he thought I was confronting him by looking over.

And we tell teenagers to ignore a road rager because teenagers tend to make more-emotional decisions than do mature adults, and thus get sucked-into bad situations.

You are correct that no sane person would produce a gun in this situation and I didn't produce my gun, or ever considered producing my gun. Nothing real deep about that statement; that's just what happened.

So why did I post this experience? Certainly not because I was expecting any specific type of response. I was just curious about any type of response, and I was hoping others would share their experiences as well. I like to learn from others, especially when I'm new to something.

Also, I didn't get offended at anything you wrote - although I didn't agree with it all. I'm a big boy and can take alot worse.

:cool:

BMW Racer
February 3, 2009, 11:27 PM
"BWMRacer, good story. I've wondered how I would react in a similar situation, and have not yet gotten a CCW, partly for this reason. It sounds like you made good decisions - maybe not perfect in hindsight, but good job. I wonder about the home that guy was going back to.
Don"

Right. And I agree that I didn't react perfectly. I was just interested to know what others would have done, or have done, when they were facing the same-type situation. Not whether they "pulled out their weapon" which no sane person would do, but just their general reaction.

BMW Racer
February 3, 2009, 11:36 PM
"Good to see another instructor around here! Do you drive a Spec E30 in NASA-MA?..."

Good catch!

:)

Socrates
February 4, 2009, 12:18 AM
Things have changed. Friends were going hunting, did pretty much the same thing you did on Highway 80, going to Nevada. Very quiet, soft spoken guys. Guy with a Porsche got angry, and, was diving under their bumper, keeping pace with them, etc. They were in a pickup, and, it did have gun racks, and they did have rifles, so, the Porsche driver was having serious sanity issues. After a few minutes of being harassed, trying to get away from the guy, etc. the passenger had enough. He pulled his 1911, and, racked the slide, ejecting a round onto the Porsches' windshield. This had an immediate sobbering effect, and, the guy dove for the nearest freeway exit.

These days, the guy would use his cell, call the CHP, and have both of the guys arrested, and, probably get off scott free.

Socrates
February 4, 2009, 05:56 AM
Found this article by Mas Ayoob. It's on topic for your situation:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_174_29/ai_n8968386/pg_3?tag=content;col1

These situations are always reported the same way in the media: "Unarmed Motorist Slain by Police." A full size automobile at fifty miles an hour generates half a million foot pounds of energy. Compute it downward for a small car like a '91 Cavalier and for the lower speed involved--the prosecutor's own expert admitted that the vehicle was accelerating rapidly as it came toward the patrolman--and you still have more body-destroying force than could be mustered if every officer working the midnight shift had fired every round of ammunition in every magazine on their duty belts. Any police officer who has responded to an auto/pedestrian accident knows the sort of horrendous, mangling trauma that such an impact causes. The term "he was strained through the grille" is not just a figure of speech. Avulsions--field amputations--are commonplace when cars slam into humans. Flattened torsos. Skulls literally crushed like eggshells. The cops know what's about to happen to them if they don't use the greatest force available to them to stop it. That's why they shoot at drivers who try to run them down, and that's why the courts generally rule them justifiable for so doing.

I LOVE this quote:
The great Oliver Wendell Holmes had phrased it perfectly in the first half of the 20th Century: "Detached reflection is not demanded in the presence of an upraised knife." Nor should it be demanded in the face of a drawn gun, or an onrushing motor vehicle.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_154_25/ai_77824395?tag=rbxcra.2.a.11

There is no question that American Handgunner helped change that.

JAYBIRD78
February 7, 2009, 04:47 AM
So why did I post this experience? Certainly not because I was expecting any specific type of response. I was just curious about any type of response, and I was hoping others would share their experiences as well. I like to learn from others, especially when I'm new to something.

You have to realize Bmwracer that there are a bunch of jackasses on the internet that will do anything to get a rise out of you. Safety behind the keyboard works both ways here in internet world. You do not have to apologize for their stupidity.

As far as your post goes. Seems to me you did fine. No one got killed and that's a plus. If I am truly at fault during a driving incident ( my opinion of course) I will truly tell the other driver that I am sorry for not paying attention and take the ass chewing. However I personally don't take bull**** from other drivers either if they were at fault. Pride I guess. :o

Stevie-Ray
February 8, 2009, 05:03 PM
If there has been a mistake, it lies in his having posted this on a gun forum. Antis have for years expressed concern about road rage resulting in gunfire. Didn't happen here, but if it hadn't been within the realm of possibility, what was the point of posting this in the first place?Umm....the title of this thread is Didn't even consider my gun. Seems as if he is (correctly) saying that the antis don't have a leg to stand on, as usual. Any of the "gunplay" they are so afraid of will more than likely be of the illegal type between criminals. So naturally, they think to disarm US.:rolleyes:

I've been in some minor tiffs since I started carrying, and like him, I never considered my weapon. And no, you don't have to be a hothead, sometimes you are forced into it.

pacomdiver
February 13, 2009, 10:37 PM
it would've ended badly for him if he tried to ram my vehicle, my f350 is considerably more sturdy than his car and my 8 years of short track racing would help, many times ive gotten rubrails hooked and the other driver tried to rub me off and every time ive been on the winning end.

diehard, hey glad to see someone local on here, im about 15 miles south of you. my brother in law lives on ferry st up by you

john in jax
February 16, 2009, 02:22 PM
I'm very thankful you kept your head and did NOT pull the gun or think about it.

Just a week or two ago down here in FL two cars were northbound on I-95 and each got a case of road rage. The swerving, cussing and gestures quickly turned into one ignorant moron displaying his gun and then you had 2 cars shooting at each other while driving at 70mph up a crowded I-95.

And they each had the nerve to call 911 on the other car. Luckily the 911 operators and police had them pull over (separate places) and each driver/shooter is facing felony charges.

Para Bellum
February 16, 2009, 04:00 PM
your car is a more powerful weapon than your handgun. I'd only consider my gun when I can't drive.
E.g. fall back with your front axle to the height of his rear axle and then give his car a little tip with your's and off he spins. Couldn't do that with my Glocks.

Brit
February 16, 2009, 09:03 PM
BMW Racer

If you drove the way you did in Orlando? Moving over twice to allow people to move in to your lane?

The Police would escort you to the border, which ever border! The Ocean?

Check your license to see where you received it from? Cornflake Box?

etc;etc The favorite lane movement here? See your exit ahead? lots of room on your right? Indicate! Gap gone! Everybody closes ranks, then they drive an inch off the guys bumper in front! Everybody!

You want to have some fun? indicate when you do not want that space!

Hilarius!

Actually it could not happen to a local, they have the turn signals taken out when they buy a car!

Old Wanderer
February 17, 2009, 12:15 AM
Interesting thread.....I ride a motorcycle a lot. Not one of them big noisy Harley, or fat cruising bikes, but either a crotch rocket (Aprilia Falco) or one of my Dual Sport bikes...I also carry. (Usually my Kimber Ultra).

When I was in SoCal lane splitting was just the normal way off life, and most drivers understood it was legal (and IMO the safest way to ride a bike). However when I move to soggy Washington last year, what a bunch of temperamental drivers. Even the slow Harley riders have an attitude that they want to slow and block as much traffic as possible. I think drivers training teaches to never move to the right lane. :confused:

I have been riding bikes on the road, track, and desert for over 50 years, (yeah I'm a really old guy), and nothing much intimidates me. I have had people that just scream and yell at me because I change lanes and accelerate right by them in a second. (They were thinking about it, but no signal yet if ever). Probably because of my age (you know when you get this old you are just cantankerous by nature) I sometime throw a little napalm on the situation. :rolleyes:, but having the skills and performance allows me to have the confidence I can accelerate out of any situation.

Never once have I even given a thought to reaching for a weapon while riding. Twice I have called 911 when people were trying to steal a race bike off a trailer in a motel. I then stepped outside with my weapon and put the people on the ground until the police arrived. (I have a vibration monitor that alerts me in my room if the bike is even touched.)

I guess I got an overdose of that competitive gene, because in these "road rage" situation, I do not get the least emotional. I am pretty much in my Zen mode, but will play with people that seem to get upset over nothing.