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Yankee Doodle
January 27, 2009, 11:04 AM
In the face of our fallen economy, and the probability of an increasing crime rate, what if any changes have you made in your home and self defense stratagies and equipment?
I live in a rural area, and for the first time in memory, I have started to lock all doors, vehicles, and windows. In addition, I have placed "powder actuated portable protective devices" throughout the house and all outbuildings.
My basic alarm system (Akita) has been supplemented, and I now have motion sensors, and trail cameras in the driveway, and CCTV on the house to warn of, and record any vehicles or people approaching from every direction.
My personal defense items remain the same, and I see no reason to upgrade them. They worked just fine for over 20 years on "The Job", and should continue to do so.
The world is divided into "haves" and "have nots". By virtue of the fact that we are even on this forum, I feel that we all fall into the "have" catagory.
So, the question remains. What, if any changes have you made, and why.
Thanks

Corpsman
January 27, 2009, 11:12 AM
I live in Government housing, on a military base. 2 weeks ago 12 cars were broken into and there contents stolen. We have no initiated a neighborhood watch. Which is a shame considering we are in gated property that is guarded. We now stop anyone we dont recognize and ask for I.D. Car doors are all being locked and so are houses. We use to be able to just head over to a friends hose and just cruise inside. Not anymore. I have noticed that alot more people are also carying firearms while outside. Not necissarily (sorry about the horrid spelling:confused:) open carry, but not really concealed. It is almost like a small show of force to let outsiders know we mean business.

Yankee Traveler
January 27, 2009, 11:16 AM
Our changes include:
Privacy Tint ont the window and door window in the garage basement - Keeps the creeps from peering in.
Angle iron bolted to the block wall inside the window (self made grating) - keeps the creeps from coming in through the window if they decide to break it anyway
Angle iron bolted to the wall - secures the door frame from being kicked in

I am fortunate to live in a nieghborhood that is predominantly military, 5th SFG, 160th SOAR....BG's haven't frequented this part of town...

Yankee Traveler
January 27, 2009, 11:19 AM
And the wife has decided it's time for her to armed and start shooting (at targets!), so we will be visiting some ranges to see what she likes, lucky me!!!
I'm thinking 9mm or .38 Super but we'll see.

kiov
January 27, 2009, 11:20 AM
I just added a dead bolt to the back yard gate.

The Great Mahoo
January 27, 2009, 11:39 AM
I can't think of the last time my neighborhood has had any problems, so I still feel pretty safe. Besides, I've come to the conclusion that as many large glass, ground level windows/doors as I have, it would be impossible to make really secure the place from a determined assailant.

I've always kept all doors and cars locked when I will be away for a few hours. I have some guns stored in a quickaccess safe that I usually am near enough by when at home. I also tend to carry more often these days, as work and dress permit.

Hawaiian Eye
January 27, 2009, 11:54 AM
I now own an XD45 for me and will either be adding a 9mm for my wife or an AR if they're still available and in stock come tax return time. Battery powered night lights that have light and motion sensors to light up entry points are going in soon. I'd add a canine alarm system, but several family members have alergies affected by fur.

Dwight55
January 27, 2009, 12:12 PM
A few more mags, . . . some more ammo, . . . and more importantly, . . . an overall upgrade of the "stockpile" of food and supplies.

I don't anticipate having to hunker down and lay low, . . . but my parents didn't anticipate Pearl Harbor either.

Too old to run, . . . no real place to run to, . . . just planning on sitting tight and trying to hang on to what has been entrusted to my care.

May God bless,
Dwight

George PT-111
January 27, 2009, 12:52 PM
I too started to lock doors even if I step out to get rid of the garbage for lest then a minute.

freakintoguns
January 27, 2009, 01:42 PM
ive been carrying a lot more lately and got a couple nice knives for myself and my mom. i also tought her how to shoot my XD if im not home and she needs to use it. plus i got baseball bats and poolsticks stashed throughout the house

donato
January 27, 2009, 01:46 PM
Ease up guys. The world is not ending. In fact, with the new administration, everything is now going to be free in America - no more crime.

#18indycolts
January 27, 2009, 01:47 PM
trenches and claymores around the house.

grymster2007
January 27, 2009, 03:07 PM
No changes. I still like to keep the vehicles fueled up. We, by nature, have a huge stockpile of food, keep some water on hand and know where to get more, close by.

I keep the same weapons handy along with more than adequate ammunition. Keep an Urban Disaster Survival Pack in each automobile and on the quad. No room for such provisions on the motorbikes.

We've always locked the doors and we have an alarm system. I shop and dine at the nicer establishments. This is one area I will work with the missus on. She insists on doing some of her grocery shopping at a particular store that's cheaper, but in a rougher neighborhood with clientele to match. I don't consider the cost savings worth the risk.

David Armstrong
January 27, 2009, 06:40 PM
So, the question remains. What, if any changes have you made, and why.
No changes made, none needed.

Dustin0
January 27, 2009, 06:45 PM
Nothing changed here. Stocked up on ammo when I can find a deal. But thats getting harder to do these days.

Eskimo
January 27, 2009, 06:56 PM
Ease up guys. The world is not ending. In fact, with the new administration, everything is now going to be free in America - no more crime.

The day we have no more crime is the day our government has too much control over us.

The novel "1984" helped me realize this..

Slopemeno
January 27, 2009, 07:00 PM
How am I dealing with it? I gave my leftover Hue style Vietnamese soup to an 80 year old guy diggning through a garbage can the other night, and thought to myself "There but for the grace of god go I..."

ElectricHellfire
January 27, 2009, 07:10 PM
Bought a ton of AK ammo and mags. Waiting for the Zombies to come. :D

JasonG
January 30, 2009, 04:30 PM
Yankee Traveler
And the wife has decided it's time for her to armed and start shooting (at targets!), so we will be visiting some ranges to see what she likes, lucky me!!!

Mine is nearly there herself.

guntotinguy
January 30, 2009, 04:49 PM
Bought more AK and AR mags and ammo,a LOT more...a lot of food and water...2 tents,cooking supplies,etc.Trying to 'secure' our perimeter and mapping out 'escape routes'...going to the gun show this weekend to find what else can be acquired.

besafe2
January 30, 2009, 05:09 PM
No changes here either. We do have a fairly strong community watch & we watch out for each other.

Not resting on our laurels but nothing worse than property crimes in my community & none on my street.

Bob F.
January 30, 2009, 09:15 PM
Kinda between the haves & have nots! Solid house and some guns, and some ammo. 2 big dogs, good deterrents/alarms. Need more food and ammo. Got a load of firewood coming this weekend. Like to have the CCTV but not yet.
Carry at home or one within reach, always. Rural setting, not much problems, but neighbor, 2nd house up, 1/4 mile, has been broken into a few times. Inside job, IMHO.

Stay safe.
Bob

AZAK
January 30, 2009, 10:41 PM
The world is divided into "haves" and "have nots". By virtue of the fact that we are even on this forum, I feel that we all fall into the "have" catagory.
So, the question remains. What, if any changes have you made, and why.

Well, our country is sliding toward the "have nots" end. Simple math. How many items that you normally buy say, "Made in the U.S.A."?

When I purchase a gun, ammo, reloading components these days I try to keep my money with in this country; buying American made goods by American companies. The same goes for other goods. First supporting locally and then State and then Country.

I am not as concerned about being overrun by the homeless mobs, as I am in doing what I can to keep American workers from becoming homeless in the first place.

curt.45
January 31, 2009, 11:36 AM
the moat froze over in November so I'm rethinking that move.

it costs a small fortune to keep the oil vat at a boil.

I think one of the hounds ate the neighbors kid.

the cars speed up passing my house when they see me on the parapet.

still working on the catapults.

thawntex
January 31, 2009, 12:31 PM
We have not made any major changes in our home defense strategy. I do not believe that the recession will cause the crime rate to increase.

With a small number of tragic exceptions, good people continue to be good people despite adversity. My family has dealt with unemployment, the depletion of savings, and the threat of losing a home. However, at no point have I considered turning to crime to make ends meet.

Conversely, I do not see how a bad economy could affect a career criminal. You can't get fired from being a burglar, mugger, or rapist (barring a prison sentence, of course). I doubt that most outlaws have a 401K, a mortgage, or health insurance to lose. Criminals are opportunistic and will always have victims to exploit. Therefore, a robber is a robber despite the Dow Jones industrial average.

As others have stated: if you already consider self-defense a priority, just keep doing what you're doing.

-T

Creature
January 31, 2009, 12:47 PM
I do not believe that the recession will cause the crime rate to increase.

good people continue to be good people despite adversity.

With a small number of tragic exceptions, good people continue to be good people despite adversity. My family has dealt with unemployment, the depletion of savings, and the threat of losing a home. However, at no point have I considered turning to crime to make ends meet.

Good for you...

Many otherwise "good" folks have turned to crime when faced with financial or economic ruin.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1558814

thawntex
January 31, 2009, 01:28 PM
Two can play at that game, sir.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97234406

-T

Creature
January 31, 2009, 01:35 PM
ooookay...did you actually read the whole article you cited? Or was it the first article that popped up after you searched the web?

thawntex
January 31, 2009, 01:46 PM
I had read the article in its entirety well before this thread started. Here's another one for you, from my hometown. Are you going to make any valid arguments, or continue to try and taunt me?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/010608dnmetdallascrime.3f66bb1c.html

I never denied that some people will resort to crime when faced with economic hardship. On the other hand, I highly doubt that the 1300 people recently laid off from Nortel are set to descend upon my house in the form of an angry mob. Let's get real.

-T

Webleymkv
January 31, 2009, 01:47 PM
I started carrying two speedloaders for my revolver instead of one. Other than that, I haven't changed much.

grymster2007
January 31, 2009, 03:58 PM
good people continue to be good people despite adversity. Most yeah, but some only until they get hungry.

thawntex
January 31, 2009, 04:10 PM
I decided to do a little more digging after the friendly exchange between Creature and me.

A simple Google search reveals that college enrollment is up in several states. Call me an optimist, but I believe that this helps to affirm my original premise. A great many people deal with hardship in a positive way. I have two small children and only enough savings left to pay the bills for one more month. My wife and I are both struggling to find employment. We would never consider harming another human being to make ends meet. My wife currently attends night school to gain a medical billing and coding certificate. Good for us? You bet.

From now on I will leave this debate to the economists and criminologists. My feelings on the matter stand. If you are already sufficiently armed and ready to defend yourself and your home, there is no need to ramp up your efforts. Some of the increased crimes consist of scams and frauds anyway, a matter that no amount of stockpiled ammo will solve. Plus, it proves my original point that career criminals seek opportunity. Unfortunately the opportunities have increased. If you weren't an easy mark to begin, however, you have no reason to increase you level of preparedness.

-T

Creature
January 31, 2009, 04:13 PM
I do not believe that the recession will cause the crime rate to increase.

Are you going to make any valid arguments, or continue to try and taunt me?

According to this report, the FBI doesnt agree with your assessment: http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=316653238215116

To put it into perspective, answer these questions: has your state and local government met their financial goals this year? Does your state and local government expect to reach their goals next year as the economy continues to slide?

"Why?" one might ask. Well, more and more we see reports of economic short falls in which state and local communities have to cut back on police and other budgets. Will that not have an impact on crime?

How about the mortgage debacle? Will that have an effect on how crime will rise or fall as the poor become homeless?

Pushed hard enough in hard times, the bottom rung will do what it perceives it has to do to survive. It might be apparent on your street or even your neighborhood, but based on FBI reports going back to 1972 and the business cycle chart compiled by the National Bureau of Economic Research, it looks as if violent crime trends upward at the beginning of a contraction and generally stays up through the initial phases of a recovery. The same pattern emerges when you overlay historical statistics for robbery alone from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Holdups increased noticeably in 1973, 1980, 1981, 1990, and 2001, years in which recessions began.

Creature
January 31, 2009, 04:17 PM
A simple Google search reveals that college enrollment is up in several states.

So what? Explain to me how college enrollment numbers has anything to do with crime statistics?

Is it not a fact that more and more jobs require a college degree now more than they have in the past? And has the college-aged population continued to grow since the tracking started?

thawntex
January 31, 2009, 04:24 PM
Quote:
A simple Google search reveals that college enrollment is up in several states.

So what? Explain to me how college enrollment numbers has anything to do with crime statistics?

Is it not a fact that more and more jobs require a college degree now more than they have in the past? And has the college-aged population continued to grow since the tracking started?

I'm not going to argue with you any further. I will recommend that if you quote me in the future, please do not chop my paragraphs into little pieces. I have elucidated my points thoroughly, and I refuse to gratify you by explaining one sentence taken out of context.

-T

kirpi97
January 31, 2009, 05:05 PM
I live in Government housing, on a military base. ... I have noticed that alot more people are also carying firearms while outside

Corpsman, unless the Military has significantly changed its policies from when I served for 20 plus years, you may have had break-ins on the post, but I doubt there are any individuals openly packing heat of any sort on post/base. I don't believe you meant it the way it came across.:o

I live in a rural area in the west. And I see more movement by some to buy ARs and others high capacity clip weapons. But I do not see any more individuals carrying weapons. And after talking with the sheriff's office, the CWs haven't increased that much either. Seems those who had in the past, still do in the future. But there are a lot of newbees clamoring to get an AR. And that scares the bajeebies out of me.:eek:

Creature and thawntexI am enjoying the back and forth. But the web site articles are getting harder to follow. A healthy debate is worth more than a good movie. So in the words of the UCF, "Let's get it on!"

But I am not so sure you are as far apart as you may think.:rolleyes:

Creature
January 31, 2009, 06:38 PM
I'm not going to argue with you any further. I will recommend that if you quote me in the future, please do not chop my paragraphs into little pieces. I have elucidated my points thoroughly, and I refuse to gratify you by explaining one sentence taken out of context.

It looks more to me like you are avoiding the questions with some form of pompous indignation. Answer the questions and prove to us that you have it right.

G-man 26
January 31, 2009, 07:40 PM
The local PD has an on-line map with the crimes shown by type, and flagged by date. Linked to the flagged event is a breif description. You all might want to check for this kind of resource, it would help you better prepare for what most happens in your area. It has sure helped us. We found on this site that the area we were renting in, had a lot of problems, and where we bought did not. This is the exact opposite of what we may have thought. We personally had 2 break-ins in the "better" area, and there are almost none at all in the "slum". I believe that "have-nots" tend to not rob from other "have-nots".

I have begun preperations for the coming of zombies.:eek: I know we are not supposed to talk on zombies; but have you been listening to the anti-gun party on the hill in the last few days?:barf: believe me, the zombies are comming! They're after your guns, not your brains, but if you have any brains, they'll be after those when they're done with the guns.

FyredUp
January 31, 2009, 09:36 PM
Changes made...Added more firearms and more ammunition. Still adding more of each when I can.

Food stockpile has been going on for months and is at about 2 months, maybe more. Bottled water on hand, probably should add more.

My girlfriend wants us to be more self sufficient. We are talking about adding an outdoor woodboiler for heat. I have 5 or 6 cords of wood on hand and access to much more I can cut. She wants to increase the garden size and add chickens and a cow or 2. Also she wants to stock our pond so we have our own fisheree.

Everything we are doing will benefit us whethe or not the SHTF or not so to me it all makes perfect sense.

Nnobby45
January 31, 2009, 10:49 PM
People should get prepared if they aren't.


The chances of criminal activity may or may not be more likely in our communities as a result of the world economic crisis.

In any event, why would the preparation be any different? I can name 15 gun forums that have, for some time now, been discussing the subject of defending ourselves from the criminal activity we have already. :cool:

Creature
January 31, 2009, 11:04 PM
I have elucidated my points thoroughly

Still waiting for you to do so. Perhaps you should have picked a better word...because you have yet to 'elucidate' your statements with verifiable facts which prove your point in this analysis.

Yankee Doodle
February 1, 2009, 10:10 AM
Creature and Thawntex
Although I have enjoyed keeping up with your mutual "hissy fits", they do not, in any way answer the simple question I asked. So, for your edification, I will repeat: What, if any changes have you made?
If you have not made any, simply say so. If you have, say so. Any other response is off topic, and simply a waste of all our time.
My opinion only. Others may differ.

Creature
February 1, 2009, 10:41 AM
By your very statements, you opened that door. Now you're upset that some have walked through it. :cool:

Yankee Traveler
February 1, 2009, 11:41 AM
Quote:
good people continue to be good people despite adversity.

Most yeah, but some only until they get hungry.


Good people will stay good and bad people will stay bad? I'm confused, because I always thought people could cahnge. Or good will stay good and only the bad can change?
What about the guy (or girl) that hung around the fringes of crime, when they were young, you know, smoked a little dope, KNEW some people that did a B&E now and then, maybe was an innocent bystander that got sucker punched into a bar fight...The whole running with the wrong crowd scenarioB but decided to turn their lives around. Married, 2.5 kids and all of a sudden, no job and still all the bills...Too much time on their hands and no money, maybe the wrong crowd is looking right again.

The old "buddy" may be looking to steal a flat screen to buy crack, but the "changed" guy may do it to put food on the table. And the "changed" guy is the old "buddy's" ticket into new nieghborhoods because his Malibu/Camary/Tuarus wont stand out as criminal. "Changed" guy has ethics and doesn't carry a gun, "buddy" is not so conscientious and all of a sudden...

Bad economy, your nieghborhood, my nieghborhood, stranger in the house with a gun...

Really not that far fetched

scorpion_tyr
February 1, 2009, 11:59 AM
The only change I've made recently is I've started to open carry around the house a lot more.

David Armstrong
February 1, 2009, 12:12 PM
Not going to get into the "let's see who cqan find the most obscure article with the most maybe, if, could, and might statements about crime" contest, but I will suggest that it is pretty easy to check this. Simply look at the UCR data and compare it to the economic data for previous time periods. What I notice is that we have had some of the highest crime rates during some of the best economic times and we have had some of the lowest crime rates during the worst economic times. If there is a causal link between crime and the economy, AFAIK no criminologist has ever found it. To stay on the topic, I personally don't see any reason to change my personal defense plan at home, work, or otherwise based on the economy.

Creature
February 1, 2009, 12:22 PM
I'm confused, because I always thought people could cahnge.

You're not confused. Individuals can change. And its usually not for the better when faced with financial ruin, desperation and hard times. Yet some here insist on keeping their head in the sand.

Crime rate increases have a tendency to precede economic downturns by a year or two simply because of the slow recognition of a full-blown recession by the reporting outlets. The current financial meltdown, which started back in 2006, saw murders in the United States jump 4.8 percent that year, and overall violent crime was up 2.5 percent for the year, marking the largest annual increase in crime in the United States since 1991, according to figures released by the FBI in June of 2006. There was a economic recession in 1993...which by the way began in 1991. So, its not just about petty theft and fraud when it comes to economic recessions and crime increases.

Creature
February 1, 2009, 12:25 PM
David Armstrong wrote:
and might statements about crime" contest, but I will suggest that it is pretty easy to check this. Simply look at the UCR data and compare it to the economic data for previous time periods.

Perhaps you missed this in my post #33:

based on FBI reports going back to 1972 and the business cycle chart compiled by the National Bureau of Economic Research, it looks as if violent crime trends upward at the beginning of a contraction and generally stays up through the initial phases of a recovery. The same pattern emerges when you overlay historical statistics for robbery alone from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Holdups increased noticeably in 1973, 1980, 1981, 1990, and 2001, years in which recessions began.

David Armstrong
February 1, 2009, 12:41 PM
Perhaps you missed this in my post #33:
Didn't miss a thing. "Looks as if", "generally", and so on don't do much for me in articles like that, particularly given all the other ifs and mights and maybes in the article. One could have picked other data points and gotten other results. I tend to look at the overall numbers for the period and overall economic issues, not just recession, not specific start or end points, etc .And if you give credence to that article, perhaps you missed in your post that we should have already peaked in robberies, according to many. My last comment on this, as again this is very much off-topic.

Creature
February 1, 2009, 12:53 PM
Since the phraseology of patterns and trends isnt precise enough for you, maybe you should actually look up the other data points that you bring up yourself, since neither the FBI crime data or the National Bureau of Economic Research data are sufficient in your eyes.


My last comment on this, as again this is very much off-topic.

I very much doubt that...

FyredUp
February 1, 2009, 01:17 PM
Preparedness is a personal thing. Some feel prepared with a gun or two and a couple of loaded magazines and 6 cans of soup. Some feel prepared with
100,000 rounds and a gun for every imaginable scenario with sealed canned goods to last for 5 years. Most are like me and somewhere in between. It's all about comfort level more than anything.

I believe my signature line says it all. Also, I would like to dispell the feeling that being prepared makes you some sort of survivalist wacko. Preparation can be for all sorts of things, natural disasters, personal economic downturns(with my food supply on hand, other than a few perishables, I would not have to grocery shop for about 2 months, freeing my limited cash if I lost my job), AND if for some reason the SHTF. To me the last is the least of my reasons for preparedness, but still one I must at least minimally consider.

No ones method of preparing is really any more right or wrong han anyone elses. Unless you fail to prepare at all.

David Armstrong
February 1, 2009, 01:30 PM
Also, I would like to dispell the feeling that being prepared makes you some sort of survivalist wacko. Preparation can be for all sorts of things, natural disasters, personal economic downturns(with my food supply on hand, other than a few perishables, I would not have to grocery shop for about 2 months, freeing my limited cash if I lost my job), AND if for some reason the SHTF.
Good point, and why I said way back that we made no changes and didn't need to make any changes. IF one is properly prepared, you don't really need to change much as the situation changes. A tanking economy really doesn't change your safety and security needs much, if any.

thawntex
February 1, 2009, 02:25 PM
Creature and Thawntex
Although I have enjoyed keeping up with your mutual "hissy fits", they do not, in any way answer the simple question I asked. So, for your edification, I will repeat: What, if any changes have you made?
If you have not made any, simply say so. If you have, say so. Any other response is off topic, and simply a waste of all our time.
My opinion only. Others may differ.

Mr. Doodle,

Please refer to the first sentence of my first post (#25). I'd be happy to repeat it.

"We have not made any major changes in our home defense strategy."

Thank you for your time.

-T

pax
February 2, 2009, 10:15 PM
thawntex ~

Since you are -- as you said -- done posting any on-topic contributions to the thread, you're done posting in this thread at all.

thanks,

pax

Rourke
February 4, 2009, 09:09 PM
This thread started off well - something to really think about. I firmly believe the economy will continue to spiral downward - no matter what the government does - for at least the rest of 2009.

I definitely need to put more thought into changes needed on my property. Extra locks, motion lights, possibly inexpensive video surveillance in a few places. Desperate times will effect desperate people.

Take care all -

Rourke

73flyby
February 4, 2009, 09:43 PM
Since the subject is Economy In the Tank, as it pertains to firearms, I hope I would not be off base to suggest that a possible solution to jumpstarting the economy might be to offer a (big) tax break for buying American firearms. That's one thing Americans do well and the industry has not entirely gone overseas. Fat chance of it happening, but it would work as well as any of the other solutions I've heard. Any I don' think it would start any international trade wars in itself.

NickySantoro
February 12, 2009, 04:28 PM
In the face of our fallen economy....

I run a small home decorating business. I've never been busier this time of year, which is usually a bit slow. My customers all seem to have plenty of money to spend. My competitors, at least the ones who do quality work, are all busy too. Fallen economy? If you and the MSM say so it must be so. Me? I'm back to working weekends to keep up.

ZeSpectre
February 12, 2009, 04:43 PM
I've got the best security system available!
Older, retired, bored, neighbors on three sides of my property :D

On the fourth side, the cart path for a popular golf course with a steady stream of "witnesses".

It's hell on privacy but NOBODY gets on my property without scrutiny and Grandma Carpenter has 911 on speed-dial :eek:

Oh and we did replace a couple of windows with harder to break lexan/plastic ones.