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Larry Spencer
January 20, 2009, 07:03 PM
I am new here. Has this been posted before? This guy uses a great tactic when 2 punks hold him up with a Tec-9!

Movie Clip: 70yr old man shoots and kills armed robbers (http://www.wlky.com/video/16509601/index.html)


.

vytoland
January 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
dont mess with the old folks wearing glasses:D

ZEBRARANGER
January 20, 2009, 08:46 PM
Powerful story straight from the victims mouth, like he said, there was no other option. Bottom line is you never know who your messing with, young or old.

Lavid2002
January 20, 2009, 09:01 PM
lol

Only S&W and Me
January 20, 2009, 09:36 PM
I couldn't understand him...was his gun concealed in his waistbelt or on the counter? He said just by chance he brought it in with him from the car.

This is such a cool story!

Larry Spencer
January 20, 2009, 10:10 PM
Only S&W,

He said he usually takes it out of his waistband and puts it on the mantel and leaves it there while he is working inside the apt.

He said that when he went to get the furnace filter from his vehicle, he decided to put it back in his waistband because the vehicle was a block away from the apt.

When he came back to the apt. he started working on something, without putting it (luckily) back on the mantel as he usually does.….. that’s when he had the nice visitors.

regal
January 21, 2009, 11:38 AM
perfect example of why you should always have a pistol on hand for home defense. A shotgun under the bed is of no good if you're in the kitchen.

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
quote:perfect example of why you should always have a pistol on hand for home defense

dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend.

SigfanTN
January 21, 2009, 12:54 PM
This has been posted before, but it is still a very moving story.

dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend.

If you watch the video you will see that this man was not at home, he was getting a rental property ready for new tenants. Also, as gun owners, each of us has to make a choice of when and where to carry. Some folks cannot move and no one can predict when and where they will need their weapon for protection.

He is very lucky that he made the decision to put his rig back on when he did or the story might have ended very differently.

RainbowBob
January 21, 2009, 01:01 PM
dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend.

Dude, are you aware that bad guys have cars - and know that the better neighborhoods have better stuff to steal?

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 01:24 PM
I realize bg's have cars, but I stand to what I said...If I HAVE to wear my gun while I'm in MY HOUSE, then I'm moving. My response might not have been about the present situation, I was merely responding to what regal said: "perfect example of why you should always have a pistol on hand for home defense.A shotgun under the bed is of no good if you're in the kitchen." I took that meaning as carry on you while at home.

RainbowBob
January 21, 2009, 01:47 PM
If I HAVE to wear my gun while I'm in MY HOUSE...

You don'y HAVE to carry a gun anywhere - it's a personal choice.

However, many people choose to carry at home, regardless of where they live.

I live in a nice neighborhood in North Seattle. Last year, while walking my dog, I was threatened by a guy who had just knocked down a mail-box while speeding down my street.

Not long after, we were "interviewed" by a pair of sleezy looking guys who drove up our driveway trying to sell us "meat" from their unmarked truck.

Several years ago, we heard helicopters overhead and saw police cars out in the street (in our "nice" quiet neighborhood). I looked out my slider and saw a man hiding behind my shrubbery within 15 feet of my door. I didn't even own a firearm at that time, and when I tried to call 911 on my land-line (this was before cell-phones) - I discovered to my shock that the line was dead! I hustled my wife to the garage and drove out of there - alerting the police I encountered that the guy they were looking for was in my yard. We left and I never did find out what happened to the fugitive.

Plenty of other questionable characters have stopped by over the years.

My routine is to have a firearm readily available in the winter when all the doors are locked 24/7 - and carry in the summer when doors are constantly opening and are often unlocked for one reason or another.

And I never leave home without it - not even to walk the dog.

My point is this: As far as I'm concerned, there is no place you can move that isn't vulnerable to predators.

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 02:03 PM
I know I'll get a ton of flack for this but....I think (me, not anybody else, so its MY opinion) that if people feel they MUST carry inside their house then its borderline paranoia. There I said it. Having a weapon thats "readily available" is different than having it on you at all times. What do you do in the shower? Are you constantly looking out the shower curtain for a BG? Also I really don't want to explain to my baby girl why her daddy wants to carry a gun in the house. "Daddy, why do you carry your gun at home?" "Well baby, I can give you a hundred answers, but it boils down to the fact that I'm paranoid".
I know bad stuff happens in all walks of life, but if I'm that afraid, I will MOVE!

abber
January 21, 2009, 02:10 PM
As an obviously decent man, he will carry this forever, as he himself said. HE is the victim here, and I pray the perp's families/friends do not seek to victimize him further. So often, these people see themselves as the victims in a situation like this one. I'm not sure that I agree with him doing an interview, however. Just my $0.02.

Perldog007
January 21, 2009, 02:12 PM
dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend.


I heartily agree, IF - one has the means. Somebody has to cook your lunch, sweep the floors, clean the restroom, wash the dishes..... you get the idea.

Avoiding trouble is always the best option. No matter where you live trouble can find you and it happens more often in some places than others. I think most of us have our families and ourselves in the best places we can find and afford according to our situation.

If I wanted a mortgage I COULD move, but I consider the stress of a mortgage and living in tract housing more hazardous than the occasional madness that visits my modest 'hood. We keep the means of legal defense handy in this house, and have done so living in a pricey townhouse in much more upscale surroundings.

I am glad that the system worked for the good guy here. When every law abiding citizen can make the choice for themselves whether or not to carry a defense tool, we have won. Until such time, more work to be done.

OldMarksman
January 21, 2009, 02:23 PM
I know bad stuff happens in all walks of life, but if I'm that afraid, I will MOVE!

If you can and want to live in a gated community that might help. Otherwise, the question is "where?"

If you live in a high crime area and can move, do so, but don't count on that to keep you safe.

About 35 years ago, a restaurant worker carried his carving knife with him after work and somehow got into a third floor apartment down the street from where I lived. Looked to me like something that only Spiderman could do. He announced his intention to rape the occupant. Somehow the arrival of her room-mate scared him off.

The police advised them to acquire a firearm. To them, that was anathema, and they moved...

...to an apartment in the peaceful, "safe" community in which I live now. Shortly after that they heard the resident in the adjacent apartment being brutally attacked.

We have had three home invasions, one resulting in the murder of a resident, in good neighborhoods in our area in recent weeks.

Having related all that, carrying in the house is something I do not want to do, for several reasons. Having a gun readily available but safely stowed is my preference.

Repeating an earlier post, the intended victim of these perps was not carrying at home, but in a rental property in an apparently questionable area.

RainbowBob
January 21, 2009, 02:49 PM
I think (me, not anybody else, so its MY opinion) that if people feel they MUST carry inside their house then its borderline paranoia. There I said it. Having a weapon thats "readily available" is different than having it on you at all times. What do you do in the shower? Are you constantly looking out the shower curtain for a BG? Also I really don't want to explain to my baby girl why her daddy wants to carry a gun in the house.

#18indycolts:
I understand what you are saying, and a few years ago I would probably have agreed with you. Particularly your concern about your baby girl.

But consider this: A gun that is readily available (and I mean really ready) can't be locked away some place unloaded. And you don't want a loaded, unlocked firearm in the house with small children.

If an individual makes the decision to have a ready firearm - there is nothing more ready than carrying - even in the house. There is also nothing safer (short of locking them away) around small children. When you are carrying the only loaded firearm in the house, you can be CERTAIN that curious hands are not going to find that loaded weapon in your nightstand or closet.

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 02:54 PM
thats why I like these forums, because everyone is allowed their opinion. Everyone had good reasons here, even if I don't agree totally, but thats the point or we wouldn't debate.;)

bclark1
January 21, 2009, 03:12 PM
It is open to debate, but it's not relevant to the topic, as it wasn't about the shooter's own home. Moreover, I certainly wouldn't come to Indianapolis unarmed. :p

It boils down to abstracting in one direction or the other. On one hand, you can abstract a particular instance in favor of calling it paranoia - in which case, why own guns for defense at all? If I have to carry in my car, I should change my route. To work, I should find a new job. And so forth.

The other direction to abstract is what I'd call the airbag argument. Do I plan to crash my car? No. Is it likely I will? The chance may indeed be astronomically small if I am very careful, avoid traffic and hazards, drive defensively, etc. But in the event that those long odds play out, I certainly wouldn't want to be without an airbag. No matter how secure your house is, no matter how good the neighborhood is, there is no immunity. Folks I know on one of the most quiet, expensive, homogeneous blocks in the Chicago suburbs came home to a burglary late last year. There is no perfect safety.

I also think it's detrimental to ever question anyone's good faith motives on the subject. Creating or supporting stigmas like that is the exact divide-and-conquer strategy the antis have been relying on for years now to chip away at gun rights. Casting someone in a critical light for behaving within the bounds of the law only lowers the barriers to broadening that law and further constricting the rights it addresses.

To the original post, good for this guy. When I saw how long the video was, I thought "I'll never make it through this." But it was gripping. He's a great guy and I hope he can spend the remainder of his life in peace knowing he's been a good example of how to act in tough circumstances, protected the people he cares about, and sent a message to lowlifes who would prey on those they consider weak.

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 03:46 PM
quote: I certainly wouldn't come to Indianapolis unarmed.

Hey now.;) I'm not sure where in ohio you're at, but I think cinci has worse areas than indy.:cool:

#18indycolts
January 21, 2009, 03:54 PM
quote:you can abstract a particular instance in favor of calling it paranoia.

So me dressed as Rambo in my house...grenades and .50 cal machine gun, lets throw in the bazooka in there also....is that paranoid? or you just gonna write that off as protecting my self?

Socrates
January 21, 2009, 04:40 PM
Areas of LA, Oakland, D.C., San FRancisco, and Richmond
where the above is not unreasonable.

In fact, the way things are going in Mexico, that might need to be standard issue for folks on the border...

Whiteboy67
January 21, 2009, 05:04 PM
Sounds like Clint Eastwood's brother.

dabigguns357
January 21, 2009, 06:09 PM
First and for most let me mention that while i seem paranoid by carrying a gun while i sit here typing a post to tfl,i'm not.Infact i stood up and took this picture of what i'm wearing as i type to ya'll.
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp354/dabigguns357/Picture030.jpg

I lived in a town where the only thing that happened in the last 4 years was a house fire next door,but 4 years before that a nice little old lady lived across the street from the then owners and was brutally attacked and shot in her home,they still haven't got who did it.No one is safe in any urban,rural,country,or city setting.If they want something they will do what they can to get it,whether it be from you or someone else.

I have a 10 year old,a 16 month old and one on the way,and that gives me even more reason to carry in and out of my house.What are you going to do if 2 b/g's come to your door and instead of knocking they let them selves in.Are you going to have time to gather the kids and run to safety and a gun or are you going to have the means to defend your family on your hip.My motto is this
____________________________________________________________
it's better to have a gun on your hip than one to your head.

SW1911CT
January 21, 2009, 06:12 PM
I carry almost all the time. Friends and family who notice (most don't because I'm low key about my CCW) have asked me why I always need to carry my pistol. I tell the the truth and say it truly is not an inconvenience to me. I have a very comfortable holster and if I'm sitting in a car or on the couch reading or whatnot and it is pressing into my side I might take it out and leave it sitting beside me. And when I stand up again I just put it back in it's home, my right hip! I just never feel like it's a chore or that I have to go out of my way to have it on me. When a BG breaks into your house they might just kick the door down and barge right in. If you don't have your rig readily available you might as well not have it.

I'm glad that with CCW I don't have to make the choice, but if open carry was the only option then the inconvenience factor would possibly rise enough to limit some of my carrying opportunities. I don't like the attention that would surely draw.

SW1911CT
January 21, 2009, 06:15 PM
it's better to have a gun on your hip than one to your head.

edzachary said the chinaman!

45Marlin carbine
January 21, 2009, 06:40 PM
interesting, this fella has acting ability that Clint may should take notice of. just proves that you need every edge you can get these days.

Larry Spencer
January 21, 2009, 06:43 PM
This video interview is undeniable proof of the value of carrying... NOT "having it handy".

.

SigfanTN
January 21, 2009, 11:35 PM
This video interview is undeniable proof of the value of carrying... NOT "having it handy".


+1

That having been said sometimes I carry at home and sometimes I just have it handy, but I don't have kids. If I had kids, I would certainly have it ON me, not near me. Children are some of the most inquisitive, resourceful and agile humans around. I would not underestimate how "handy" might be too accessible in my house for a child. As far as questions...children should receive honest answers about firearms so the taboo and curiosity is removed.

So me dressed as Rambo in my house...grenades and .50 cal machine gun, lets throw in the bazooka in there also....is that paranoid? or you just gonna write that off as protecting my self?

#18indycolts, prepare for some flack :p
Up to this point you stated your opinion and that was okay since everyone gets to make that choice for themselves how secure they feel and to what lengths they will go to protect themselves. I feel the above statement is unfair, though, because you are comparing someone lawfully carrying in their own home (which is legal in the vast majority of our country) to someone who may have gone off the deep end.

You made it clear it's not your choice, but to portray someone who chooses otherwise in their own home as a maniac is just weak IMO. Does the difference of opinions bother you that much?

So, with that out of the way, what did you think of the video interview of the man's story? Keep in mind he was not at home.;)

Rich Miranda
January 22, 2009, 09:31 AM
There's nothing you can do if you don't react quickly and have something to defend yourself with.

Exactly.

If you notice the sequence in which he shot the criminals, it was perfect. One shot to the guy holding the gun. One shot to the other guy. Back to the first guy and one more for the other guy.


Some famous ancient writings come to mind also. You may have heard of the man who said this:

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Rich Miranda
January 22, 2009, 09:42 AM
...If I HAVE to wear my gun while I'm in MY HOUSE, then I'm moving.

#18indycolts, I am not going to flame you. I certainly understand where you are coming from. It is a SAD, and TRAGIC day when we have to carry a firearm in our homes to defend ourselves in our own home.

But here's the rub. It has ALWAYS been that way, and will continue to be that way. It doesn't matter where you live (except maybe 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.) or how safe your neighborhood is. Criminals target homes and people at home. Even more perversely, they often target homes in 'safe' neighborhoods because the homeowners likely aren't prepared for them.

Do I believe we should have the right to feel safe at home? Of course. I keep the doors locked and my SP101 on my right hip. That, coupled with vigilance, makes me feel safe.

KCabbage
January 22, 2009, 10:08 AM
Greetings everyone,

Indy, where do you suggest I/we move? I live in a somewhat crowded city

that has shootings everyday. Even if I moved outside the city to a secluded

area with little or no neighbors I still wouldn't feel totally safe. Just months

ago a older couple that lived in the middle of nowhere were robbed and

tragically murdered by a twisted boyfriend/girlfriend couple.

Something to roll over ;)

Take care

jmf_stl
January 22, 2009, 10:26 AM
I hope this man is left alone, but I can't help but think there is a bunch of "slip and falls" salivating about getting at him. In my experience with lawyers and lawsuits I have sat in disbelief at the tactics these leeches get up to. :mad:

vytoland
January 22, 2009, 10:46 AM
If I HAVE to wear my gun while I'm in MY HOUSE, then I'm moving.

where are you going to move.........is there a safe haven on this ball of mud that is void of trouble ............please name one

bclark1
January 22, 2009, 11:05 AM
So me dressed as Rambo in my house...grenades and .50 cal machine gun, lets throw in the bazooka in there also....is that paranoid? or you just gonna write that off as protecting my self?

If it's legal and you can handle it responsibly (and afford it), I'm going to try to become your new best friend, 'cause that's pretty cool. But again, you're really doing a disservice to gun owners by conceding that stereotype to those that would take our firearms away. That sort of thinking is exactly where we get killed in public opinion. Because we're all just a bunch of dumb, redneck, wannabe operators, right?

Dental student in Indianapolis always rags on Cleveland, but I never put forth the claim that I was in the green zone. I generally try to stay prepared regardless.

Quite frankly I almost think a home invasion would be more frightening than an encounter in the street because you have much more to lose and much less chance of a passerby assisting or calling the police. But I'm not saying that you should feel the same way. You attenuate your defense to suit your own tolerances. I just don't think you should criticize someone else for doing what makes them comfortable so long as they're not doing anything illegal or dangerous.

doc540
January 22, 2009, 11:34 AM
I can see several fundamental mistakes the elderly gentleman made:

1. he spent time working in a high crime area with a large amount of cash on his person

2. he let someone see that large amount of cash on his person

3. he allowed himself to become "involved" with a stranger at his door

4. after the event he talked too much in public

Otherwise, he did a good job with the situation and, in the end, was lucky as hell he was still alive.

for instance:
1. they could've come in blazing and spraying
2. when he feigned a heart attack they could have shot him in the head instead of just hitting him on the head

SW1911CT
January 22, 2009, 09:48 PM
That camera guy has ADD

SW1911CT
January 22, 2009, 09:56 PM
Do you guys think you would feel the same remorse as he does? Not exactly remorse for his actions but remorse for what happened?

I mean he did a good thing. Those were obviously bad bad guys who would not have made him their last victim. He probably not only saved his and his wife's lives but others down the road as well. Isn't that something to feel kind of good about?

I guess you really have to be there and have that happen to know how he feels. I'm sure it's awful after the fact but right now I know I wouldn't hesitate to try to end a situation exactly like he did (maybe sans heart attack act!). I guess the time for feeling bad about it comes later.

cchardwick
January 22, 2009, 10:51 PM
where are you going to move.........is there a safe haven on this ball of mud that is void of trouble ............please name one

I know of one place that you don't have to worry about getting shot, on a spaceship floating in space LOL.

Seriously, if you stick your head in the sand and think that your home or mall or Starbucks is safe then you are fooling yourself. Read up on the statistics in your area and see how many people have been shot or killed right in their home. Once you realize how many people get hit and how often it happens you will realize that no place is safe. Sure gun-free school zones seem safe until you read about Virginia Tech. All it takes is one trigger happy guy and you'll be glad you have a gun in your wasteband.

I carry at home more and more, not all the time and not in the shower and I for sure never leave my loaded gun 'on the mantle' or anywhere else where someone can get a hold of it. That's just plain irresponsible. I would NEVER leave a gun, loaded or not, out of arms reach. They all stay in my safe or on my person.

But I carry about 50% of the time. I'm sure if I'm ever robbed or shot or worse and I don't have my gun you better believe I'll be upping the 50% stat to somewhere around 100%! The more you know and the more you read (especially on this forum) the more you will carry, I guarantee it.

#18indycolts
January 22, 2009, 10:53 PM
quote:where are you going to move.........is there a safe haven on this ball of mud that is void of trouble ............please name one


I'm going to end this in a positive note, I value everyones opinion and their right to do what they want as long as their not hurting someone else. But my answer to the above statement is this: When I picture someone saying they have to carry at home to feel safe, I don't picture a nice neighborhood. I picture downtown LA during the riots, or some african countries where there is still civil wars going on. The reason I don't feel like I have to carry at home is because I live in a quiet neighborhood, where bullets aren't flying and thugs aren't roaming the streets...my weapons are very handy and my 2 dogs alert me to just about any noise out of place...again, if i needed to carry at home I would move because I wouldn't feel safe if I thought I had to.

cchardwick
January 22, 2009, 11:06 PM
Dude, you better look at some stats, just found this on the Internet:

Indianapolis was ranked as the 33rd most dangerous city in the United States in the 2008–2009 edition of CQ Press's City Crime Rankings.[18]

I sure wouldn't want to live there unarmed! Any city in the 100 or less ranking would be too dangerous for me.

doc540
January 22, 2009, 11:07 PM
"Do you guys think you would feel the same remorse as he does? Not exactly remorse for his actions but remorse for what happened?"

Oh, absolutely.

I'd seek professional help and counseling if I had to take a life even to protect myself or my family. To kill another human would rattle me to my core.

I don't even kill to eat, but I carry my Colt and stay proficient.

I live in a quiet, well-kept neighborhood, but it's sad that the world's come to this, random violence exists even in my little corner of Southeast Texas.:(

cchardwick
January 22, 2009, 11:22 PM
I kill to eat but still killing another human being is a different story. Your killing someones son, brother, father, friend, etc. all at once. True he did something bad that deserved it and it left you no choice, but still I think that would haunt you for life. Can't say that I could really relate until I was there.

grymster2007
January 22, 2009, 11:37 PM
You can't count on being completely safe in your home regardless where you live, but the neighborhood can make a huge difference. For the last 7 1/2 years I've lived only about 10 miles from one of my former homes. There, we we burglarized a few times (one of the thugs stole my Lorcin :D), vandalized, and threatened. We had neighbors who were assaulted, maimed and killed. Felt like we lived in a prison.

Our current neighborhood is not gated, but is considered one of the most exclusive areas in the county. The only crime happening here (that I'm aware of) was the murder of a wealthy business man, shot to death about five years ago in his $5M estate. The crime has not been solved, but the DA has been investigating his daughter-in-law for years. That's it. Oh.... the Sheriff's department once shot a high speed chase suspect who pulled a gun on them on a nearby dead end road.

So... an eighteen hundred person community on the fringe of the 7 million people in the Bay Area.... two incidents in 7 1/2 years is worth every penny of the mortgage I pay, thank you.

Rich Miranda
January 22, 2009, 11:46 PM
...and my 2 dogs alert me to just about any noise out of place

Yes, dogs are one of the best early warning systems.

#18indycolts
January 23, 2009, 08:39 AM
quote:Indianapolis was ranked as the 33rd most dangerous city in the United States.

I don't live in the inner city, or in a crappy area. Most cities have a few sides of the town that are nicer. Anyone familiar with indy knows that the far northside is much quiter than other areas.

Larry Spencer
January 23, 2009, 12:16 PM
Thanks Indycolts,

It's good to know there are no home invasions or burgalries on the northside of Indianapolis!

By the way, do you rent?

#18indycolts
January 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
i NEVER said that there wasn't burglaries on my side of the city, I DID say that it isn't the inner city and meant that there was A LOT less crime. Please sir don't assume I said something when I DIDN'T. And I don't rent.

KCabbage
January 23, 2009, 01:07 PM
It's about being prepared, no matter where you live!

Rocked
January 23, 2009, 01:30 PM
If you can and want to live in a gated community that might help. Otherwise, the question is "where?"

Gated communities with a gate watchman are much safer than communities with an iron box and a scan key or pin number. The latter in my opinion only appears to be safe which could actually make the people in it less safe.

I used to have a girlfriend who lived in a unmanned gated community. The gate and driving distance was about half a mile. The easier method was to park in a parking lot next to the community and hop a fence. Then I was about 50 yards from her house. Most of the fence was iron with points on top, but near the dumpster it was all wooden fencing.

I dont know of any crimes ever commited in there, but it wouldnt be too hard.

Theres tons of ways to get into unmanned communities anyway. The easiest is just follow the person in front of you in once they open the gate. The gate has a sensor so it wont close on a car, if youre quick enough slide in behind them. I used to do this alot and no one even questioned me about it.

Plus the automatic gates break alot. I regularly go to about 3 different communities to visit friends and family and the gates are broken Id say 40% of the time. At each one. Not very safe.

Larry Spencer
January 23, 2009, 03:27 PM
IndyColts: "NEVER said that there wasn't burglaries on my side of the city, I DID say that it isn't the inner city and meant that there was A LOT less crime."

Well at least you have the ability to know in advance, if and when someone is going to break down the front door your high-end home, or burgalrize it.

You must understand... Most of us do not have your ability.

NAKing
January 23, 2009, 04:45 PM
dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend.

I really take issue with that. My father lives in an apartment in an area where there are shootings on a weekly basis. In fact, last summer there was a shooting every day for 16 days in the area. The area wasn't bad when he moved there, but it's been in a downhill spiral for some time. He's not quite the age of the man in the video, but uses a cane because he now has a steel bar holding his leg together (he was in Vietnam). He owns no weapons. He's basically a sitting duck.

He can't and won't move from that building. He's a grown man, it's not like I can just carry him out and bring him to my place. What am I supposed to do, call him up and say, "hey dad, I'd really like to visit, but won't because the neighborhood is bad enough to make me feel the need to carry. The next time I'll see you is at the funeral. Have a nice life." ?????? I think not.

There are good people that get stuck in rat holes. It's sad, but true. Some people can't just move when they feel like it. Your comment strikes me as slightly snobish. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but that's how I see it.

Anyway, that video was very educational. You can tell how difficult thinking about it still is for the poor guy.

cchardwick
January 23, 2009, 05:08 PM
The only crime happening here (that I'm aware of) was the murder of a wealthy business man, shot to death about five years ago in his $5M estate.

Yes, in some areas the odds are in your favor, but I bet the wealthy business man wishes he would have carried the night he was shot!

By the way, do you carry a spare tire in your vehicle? I don't. If I felt like I needed to carry a spare tire I'd sell the car for something more reliable.

:D

#18indycolts
January 23, 2009, 05:23 PM
quote:Your comment strikes me as slightly snobish.

If snobbish means that I wouldn't raise my kid in a high crime area, then brother I'm real friggin snobbish.:mad:

Larry Spencer
January 23, 2009, 05:48 PM
....methinks he doth protest too much.

Most likely a rented mobile home.

NAKing
January 23, 2009, 06:12 PM
If snobbish means that I wouldn't raise my kid in a high crime area, then brother I'm real friggin snobbish.

I don't wish to offend. I agree completely, it is best if children are not raised in an area with a high crime rate. My point was simply that some people can't just move.

Hard Ball
January 23, 2009, 06:56 PM
Good for him!

#18indycolts
January 24, 2009, 09:41 AM
quote:Most likely a rented mobile home.

hey, trailers need love to, ok?:D

grymster2007
January 25, 2009, 12:01 AM
Yes, in some areas the odds are in your favor, but I bet the wealthy business man wishes he would have carried the night he was shot!

Maybe he was carrying, but I don't think he was expecting his daughter-in-law to shoot him.

hey, trailers need love to, ok?

Yeah.... my first four houses had axles rather than basements. :)

Larry Spencer
January 25, 2009, 12:23 AM
Indycolts: "I live in a quiet neighborhood, where bullets aren't flying and thugs aren't roaming the streets.......... dude, If I live in a neighborhood where I have to carry my gun while I'm at home, then its time to move my friend."

Really? I've always heard trailer parks aren't so safe.

.

vytoland
January 25, 2009, 06:08 PM
Most likely a rented mobile home

does it come with skirtin & a pink flamingo??

Eskimo
January 25, 2009, 06:44 PM
I think it's a little irresponsible to remedy living in a bad area with carrying a gun. You first priority should be to MOVE.

Sure, you're in trouble if you're unarmed in a bad area. But even when you are armed in a bad area, you are forced to shoot and maybe kill a perp - something that you (...some of you) want to avoid.

SW1911CT
January 25, 2009, 06:46 PM
There are good people that get stuck in rat holes. It's sad, but true. Some people can't just move when they feel like it. Your comment strikes me as slightly snobbish. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but that's how I see it.

I don't think he meant it that way but that's the same thing I was thinking. A LOT of people are just plain stuck in their living situations. Most people living in bad areas would love to move if they had the means, don't you think that's obvious?

grymster2007
January 25, 2009, 07:13 PM
Most people living in bad areas would love to move if they had the means, don't you think that's obvious? No, not so much. I see a lot of people living in a dump somewhere surrounded by chain-link fence with bars on the windows and doors. But, dadgummit' they got them a Ford F350, 4X4, SuperDuty, club cab, long bed dually in the driveway and a sparkly bass boat on the front lawn. Got the 400 channel cable TV subscription and the 60" plasma screen. Go out to eat 4 or 5 times a week and have the $300/month cell phone bill, the 3 gym memberships and season tickets for the local hockey team. Seems these folks have set their priorities.

Not to say some folks really would get out of the rathole if they could, but seems a bunch just don't really care all that much.

Eskimo
January 25, 2009, 07:25 PM
No, not so much. I see a lot of people living in a dump somewhere surrounded by chain-link fence with bars on the windows and doors. But, dadgummit' they got them a Ford F350, 4X4, SuperDuty, club cab, long bed dually in the driveway and a sparkly bass boat on the front lawn. Got the 400 channel cable TV subscription and the 60" plasma screen. Go out to eat 4 or 5 times a week and have the $300/month cell phone bill, the 3 gym memberships and season tickets for the local hockey team. Seems these folks have set their priorities.

Not to say some folks really would get out of the rathole if they could, but seems a bunch just don't really care all that much.

I have NEVER in my entire life seen a person with wealth compared to this.. living in a bad area.

Mike in VA
January 25, 2009, 08:14 PM
^^^Weird pathology, but it's common. People been there a long time, they're settled, they're comfortable, they think it can't happen to them, etc. . . . And like Eskimo, I can't comprehend how some folks choose to spend their money. They ain't wealthy, but they have decent cash flow and their own priorities, and from thier POV, they are living well. Ignorance is bliss, and they seem happy enough, eh? It's a free country, 'common sense' isn't, and the only thing that appreciates change is a baby with a wet diaper.

I do go with the 'chance favors the prepared mind' group, though. I'm not strapped in the house, but there are pistols stashed here and there, and I do answer the door armed more often than not (I have a good view of the approach to the house & entryway from several positions). We live in a 'nice' neighborhood in Santa Fe, but there is a big gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots', the economy is down, and B&E is a popular past-time here. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Runswalking
January 25, 2009, 11:32 PM
I really felt for this man after watching that interview twice. He is suppling housing for people in a lower income area regardless of race (at least thats my take), realized there were risks & he prepared for them. The worst that could happen did & he was prepared to protect himself and his wife. He was trully hurt from having to kill these men. But as he said at least his wife wasn't killed.
As for living elsewhere. People sometime never even think that they can aspire to anything greater. They make adoptive purchases to make their existence there easier, nicer or more fun. I've seen houses that folks were living in that a single wide trailer would have been a great improvement. Having said that, others would never even want to think about changing where they live no matter the conditions.
Being safe. I can never remember the men in my family not to carry a pistol & a knife, maybe two if there was trading to be done. There were always guns around, but they were never loaded unless they were on a person. I was taught to respect every gun & treat it as if it was loaded. There has never been an accidential discharge.
Everyone wants to feel safe. I'm for whatever provides that safety.

B-Dubbz
January 26, 2009, 04:43 PM
Great interview; thanks for posting. Makes me want to go get my CHL now!

Brit
January 29, 2009, 03:15 AM
So many times we hear the advice "Do not draw against a gun in hand" but he did and won. It happens more than you think.

The same old distraction/action, he did it well. IMHO the fact you have not been shot yet is what is known as a clue! "He has a wallet full of money, do I want to put a bullet through it" or conversely "Do I want to search a body for it, blood every where?" BG's think practically sometimes as well.

If you go to classes on gun fighting, or at least self defense using a live gun (read a real one, or even air soft) it is universally taught the criminal fires his or her gun! Hence the step to the left etc; but it seems to me in every case I have seen of shots fired at the bad guys, hit or missed! They turn and run.

Not too hard to guess why, a fireball is unleashed from the not going to be a victim today persons pistol, huge muzzle blast of expanding gas, the sound!

We all wear ear protection, and eye protection on the range yes? And it is still loud! Imagine facing all that, with no eye or ear protection? Turn and run, why not. Action beats reaction? I seem to have played that game as well.

Old Wanderer
February 8, 2009, 12:18 AM
I have NEVER in my entire life seen a person with wealth compared to this.. living in a bad area.
__________________

Well Eskimo, it happens. I moved from Lake Tahoe to Inglewood, CA (Actually Lennox the un-incorporated area on the south edge), to take care of my mother. The doctors had told us she should have 6 to 9 months to live. (She wanted to be at her home, not mine). I was there for 8 years. Gun shots every night, my dog took down a felon jumping fences running from the police. Sirens every hour, helicopters hovering weekly. (This is the "hood" you hear about.)

I make a comfortable 6 figure salary, in a neighborhood of primarily "illegals". I bought the house from my mother the first 3 months I was there. Installed a security system, and carried both openly and concealed. When I would go to the range to shoot, I openly displayed my guns loading them in the trunk of my Mercedes. Everybody was aware my home was armed.

After my mother passed away, I was out of there, and now live in Washington. What a difference. My attitude, and being obvious that I was well armed, prevented any problems. Almost uniformly the homes on my block were either invaded, or burglarize. Cars were stolen, or broken into. Mine were not.

I am now 70 and still shoot competitively, and can run a mile. :barf: I carry when I go out, but not in my home. At night the tools I need are at hand in my home however. ;)

I feels sorry for you youngsters, and what the future looks like. I went from a society that I could look at an add, write a check and get a gun delivered in the mail, to now I cannot even mail a gun to my son. :confused:

The pendulum is swinging in the wrong direction.

JWT
February 8, 2009, 12:44 AM
Well said Old Wanderer!!

NickW
February 10, 2009, 12:22 PM
“Installed a security system, and carried both openly and concealed. When I would go to the range to shoot, I openly displayed my guns loading them in the trunk of my Mercedes. Everybody was aware my home was armed. “

Old Wanderer’s open display is often the key to self preservation.

For what it’s worth, this is a true story.

Many years ago when I was a young sailor, two buddies’ and I rented a small apartment in the most crime ridden drug infested part of Charleston South Carolina. Practically everyone that lived in that apartment block got broken into at one time or another and drug related shootings were common place. Why did we live there you may ask? It was either that or the barracks on Base, not very conducive to the way’s of sailors, we were broke, very young and indestructible too; in any event, the first night we were there we had a visitor knock on the door, my buddy looked out the peep hole to see a shady looking character, instead of asking what he wanted my buddy threw the door wide open, the shady character never missed a beat he confidently stepped into the apartment and promptly asked my shipmate if he wanted to buy some drugs, his smile soon faded when he turned his head my way, me and my buddy where both holding .45’s, on the kitchen table were two pump shotguns and the look on our faces said it all. Subject drug dealer promptly say’s “never mind, my mistake” and leaves very quickly. We were in that apartment for two years and never so much as had a broken window, our cars never got touched and we were often away TAD for weeks at a time. When we left the hookers in the corner apartment told us that we never had a problem because the word had been out on the street since day one: “Don’t mess with the white boys in 3B.”

Criminals prey on the weak not the strong. :cool:

weldonjr2001
February 12, 2009, 12:22 AM
Wow. Impressive delivery. The thing that really irked me was hearing the two deceased vermin referred to as "gentlemen" continuously.

But I understand it.

As for wearing a gun at home, I do. Home invasions are in the news every day. Often a wrong address.

Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not really out to get you.:)

Nnobby45
February 12, 2009, 01:10 AM
know I'll get a ton of flack for this but....I think (me, not anybody else, so its MY opinion) that if people feel they MUST carry inside their house then its borderline paranoia.

If you've ever studied home invasion robberies, it's hard not to be impressed with how fast they can smash down your door and be in your face. Had several in my community that happened in neighborhoods "where that never happens".

What kind of neighborhoods do you think home invasion robbers go to and hold a gun to your family members' heads while you go to the ATM and withdraw your savings?

New flash: Latest trend in Latin America is to kidnap the victim (home invasion?) and force him to withdraw funds by pc furnished by the high tech criminals. I mean ALL of your life savings. Bank. Brokerage accts: Everything. Survival rate for victims? Very low. Seems the bad guys don't like witnesses.

Don't worry, though. What's in Latin America stays there. Right?

Been lots of funerals for people who weren't paranoid enough. Guess they figured the odds were in favor of it not happening to them. Just other people.

I don't have to arm my self in my home, but I also see no need to immediately disarm myself when I get home, either.

In my living room, typing as I am at this moment, or watching t.v., I've got a gun in two steps. In the bedroom, a shotgun in one and a half, and a pistol within reach while in bed--the one in the living room goes with me.

I have a gun safe that's been seen by various utility workers while in my house--from CATV, to Telco, Power Co., etc. There are neigbors who've been in my home. I've had ammo delivered to my house on numerous occasions.

Might not be a secret that I have firearms in my house that Bubba might be interested in.

Call me that paranoid 'ol retired guy.:D

Oh, almost forgot. Congradulations to the ol' codger--for surviving.

FrontSight
February 12, 2009, 12:51 PM
HERO! I have sent this to everyone I know.

One question: What Police Dept has Tec 9's??? I'm guessing stolen from the evidence lockers?

mrclean77
February 12, 2009, 01:55 PM
Awesome distraction technique! Helps remind me that hitting the bull's eye is not where it ends in SD.


I feel bad for the guy, as he seems to be dealing with a good bit of grief over it, but am glad he did waht he did to protect himself and his wife.


Note to BGs: Even if you are trying to strike fear in the heart of your victims, might wanna go with, "Just cooperate and nobody gets hurt" rather than, "YOU'RE GONNA DIE! YOU'RE GONNA DIE!"




Oh yeah, I think Indy is taking too much mess over his comments, IMO.

I will understand & respect a person's decision to carry in the home, but also kinda side w/Indy that (for me) there is a difference between a home invasion being possible, and stary bullets seeming likely

JMO :)

Zulu343
February 12, 2009, 05:09 PM
I also happen to agree with Indi - 60-80% of my home is 4 seconds from a weapon. With that, my personal thought is that to carry all the time in my home is paranoia.
However- I have a large dog that would buy time for me, and I have no kids at home.