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johnm312
January 2, 2009, 06:29 AM
I am a civilian that works for the federal gov. My job requires me to travel 85% of the year and work in some very dangerous places (New Orleans). I have had no luck finding written laws concering the carry of a firearm in a government vehicle. Obviously this is a big NO in buildings and military bases, but do the same rules apply to vehicles? I have asked a supervisor and he told me he could not provide me with paperwork stating it was illegal, he said that as long as I was discret and didn't go anywhere off limits, such as a base that it would be fine. Any opinions? Anyone know for sure?

dm1333
January 2, 2009, 07:40 AM
Have you checked with GSA to see what they have to say? I'm in the Coast Guard and we also use GSA vehicles, but every where I have been stationed the SORM or ORGMAN has been pretty explicit about carry weapons onboard the station or base. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

vranasaurus
January 2, 2009, 10:08 AM
Army Regulation 190-14 says:

Only Government-owned, and Government-issued weapons and ammunition are authorized to be carried by DA personnel while performing official duties. The Secretary of the Army may authorize an exception to this requirement for Army investigative organizations.

I know this only applies to the army but your organization may have a similar regulation.

grymster2007
January 2, 2009, 12:28 PM
Probably dependent on the policies of the agency leasing the vehicles from the GSA. I don't know what the GSA's policies are for use of vehicles within their own agency.

blume357
January 3, 2009, 07:09 AM
I am sure if you go far enough somebody up the line will tell you absolutely not.

johnm312
January 3, 2009, 10:27 AM
Army Regulation 190-14

This is the answer to the question what I was looking for. But it is what I was afraid of finding. Now I have to decide what's best, don"t ask, don't tell or following the regs. I know that I'd be risking my job and possibly more because I now certainly know better. But, I carry because I work in honestly bad areas, and in areas where people hate and threaten my ageny. Though, I'd never be able to convince the folks up the coc who never get in the field of this. I suppose I'll stick with a can of spray and a whatever else. Thanks for all the help.

vranasaurus
January 3, 2009, 11:27 AM
Because you are a civilian empluyee I am not sure you can be prosecuted like a Soldier can, under Article 92 UCMJ (Failure to obey a lawful general order or regulation), for violating the provisions of AR 190-14. However it would certainly be grounds for termination of your civillian employment.

Gonzo4Hire
January 5, 2009, 01:52 PM
Courts have held that GSA vehicles are considered government property and the occupants to be "in or on government property". Therefore, it would follow that the CFR applies, hence, no firearms. It would be a might big risk if you were to be caught.
JMHO,
Gonzo

Jim March
January 5, 2009, 05:31 PM
Umm...stupid question but...did Heller change anything?

I mean yeah, you'd have to go to court but...this IS the Federal government we're talking about...the group specifically bound (so far, until we get incorporation) by the "personal defense is a basic civil right" part of Heller...

wpcexpert
January 5, 2009, 09:05 PM
Army Regulation 190-14

Are you contracted by the Army? If so, then that Reg might hold water. If not, then that one does not apply to you and you are still ignorant to the actual governing regulations.

Don't ask brother. Don't see where you would get caught unless trying to enter an installation with it.

vranasaurus
January 6, 2009, 09:18 AM
Are you contracted by the Army? If so, then that Reg might hold water. If not, then that one does not apply to you and you are still ignorant to the actual governing regulations.

Don't ask brother. Don't see where you would get caught unless trying to enter an installation with it.

Since he said that is what he is looking for I would assume he is a DA Civillian. My guess would be he works for the COE since he mentioned New Orleans.

Umm...stupid question but...did Heller change anything?

The government and other employers can make regulations and policies that deal with employees and firearms especially while at work. And owners of property, to include the government, can limit the carrying of firearms in or on their property. Heller did nothing to change that.

Beretta686
January 13, 2009, 10:12 AM
I've seen it done alot, especially here in Texas.

But it depends on your "command climate" (now that's a $2 word). Some people look the other way and some people may get all worked up about it.

Same thing as shooting Private Weapons on a .gov range. Your probably not supposed to but.....

hillbilly hippie
July 17, 2009, 09:50 PM
Umm...stupid question but...did Heller change anything?

I mean yeah, you'd have to go to court but...this IS the Federal government we're talking about...the group specifically bound (so far, until we get incorporation) by the "personal defense is a basic civil right" part of Heller...
___________________________________________

No worries friend, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

Heller clarified meaning of the the 2nd Amendment to include an individual right to possess a firearm for private use.

Individual rights and your rights as a government employee using government property are two totally different things. Because the gov't owns the rig, and you are their employee, the gov't has broad discretion to proscribe certain activities and behaior. (E.g., smoking, carrying a firearm, etc...)

For example, think of 1st amendment free speech protections. Political speech made by private citizens receives a high degree Constitutional protection under the 1st Amendment. Yet the gov't may proscribe political speech in the gov't workplace, or even speech concerning internal office affairs. See e.g. Connick v. Myers, 461 U.S. 138 (1983).

So to answer your question - no. Heller does not affect this issue.

HTH

mpd61
July 17, 2009, 10:22 PM
It might matter. AR's/CFR's/GSA Regs whatever. I am a DoD Civilian employee.
If you are traveling 85% of the time, is it local AO or are you going TDY and to various locations?