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View Full Version : can i buy a mac-10 with a suppressor?


scottycoyote
December 24, 2008, 05:21 PM
a buddy of mine says he has a friend whos looking to sell an ingram mac-10, has a threaded barrel and suppressor. My question is, can i legally buy this, or can he legally sell it to me? I thought i was supposed to buy some kind of stamp and be approved by my local leo to own something like this. If i was to buy it, can i then go and get the proper paperwork for it after the fact, or would i be in trouble?

PTK
December 24, 2008, 06:23 PM
The tax stamp must be obtained on a Form 4 prior to taking possession of an NFA item from another individual.

RJay
December 24, 2008, 07:00 PM
Sounds awful shady to me, about 6 years in Club Fed shady

Hkmp5sd
December 24, 2008, 07:03 PM
Person to Person transfers of NFA items are perfectly legal if you both reside in the same state. As stated, the paperwork (and 2 tax stamps in this case) must be completed and approved prior to you taking possession.

If he has no paperwork (a completed FORM 4 for each item), then they are illegal and you should stay far away from them. If legal, he should be asking $3,000 to $4,000 for them.

jmorris
December 25, 2008, 01:33 AM
Person to Person transfers of NFA items are perfectly legal if you both reside in the same state. As stated, the paperwork (and 2 tax stamps in this case) must be completed and approved prior to you taking possession.

If he has no paperwork (a completed FORM 4 for each item), then they are illegal and you should stay far away from them. If legal, he should be asking $3,000 to $4,000 for them.

correct $200 each for the stamps and if you get everything together and sent in right away you might get the form 4's back in time for some summer shooting.

Al Thompson
December 26, 2008, 04:41 AM
Sounds very fishy.

444
December 26, 2008, 11:38 AM
I have never understood why every time someone mentions an NFA weapon a couple people have to say there is something illegal going on.

1) Many people in this country own MAC-10s. Many people own suppressors. Many people own both and it is perfectly, 100% legal to do so. Always has been from the beginning of time to the present day.
2) Many people who own MAC-10s and suppressors buy and sell them. Happens ever day. There is nothing illegal about it. It is 100% legal to so.
3). Individual sales of NFA weapons within a given state is legal.

So WHY do we immediately jump to the conclusion (and post on a world wide forum) that something illegal is going on when we have absolutely NOTHING to base it on ?
Is it possible that this isn't on the up and up ? Could be, but nothing posted on this thread points in that direction. So why do you have to be negative ? Why do you have to make accusations of illegal activity instead of assuming that the members of this board and gun owners in general are NOT criminals until PROVEN otherwise ?

What really ****** me off is that this ONLY applies to NFA weapons. If some guy gets on here and asks about buying a pistol nobody immediately assumes that something illegal is going on. People don't trip over themselves to accuse the seller of being a criminal. But post something about buying a perfectly legal NFA weapon and SEVERAL people can't wait to start accusing people of being felons.

So if you are the owner of an NFA weapon and you want to sell it, job #1 is to defend yourself against all the clowns accusing you of being a criminal before you can do anything else. You see, we don't have enough problems defending ourselves against the media, and all the lefties: we have to defend ourselves against our own ranks.
NFA owner = criminal.
That isn't Diane Feinstein, that isn't MSNBC, that isn't Charles Shumer: it is our own people immediately assuming any mention of the buying or selling of an NFA weapon is criminal activity.

JohnKSa
December 26, 2008, 11:40 AM
If i was to buy it, can i then go and get the proper paperwork for it after the fact, or would i be in trouble?You would be in trouble. You need to comply with the law prior to taking posession of the NFA items.

cpaspr
December 26, 2008, 06:00 PM
SC -

Allow me to sum up the legal stuff from several of the above posts:

If the current owner of the Mac-10 and suppressor has all the requisite paper work and tax stamps that are required for him to legally own this particular Mac-10 and this particular suppressor, then you may fill out the requisite paperwork for both the firearm and for the suppressor, which are separate NFA regulated items both requiring a $200 tax stamp and approved paperwork for you to own.

You complete your paperwork, get the chief law enforcement officer for your area to sign off, and submit with your $200 to the BATFE. Sit back and wait. And wait. And wait. Times two.

Only when you have the approved paperwork and the requisite tax stamp in hand can you actually take physical ownership. For each. You cannot take possession of the Mac-10 with the suppressor attached until you have both sets of paperwork with attached stamps. If you get the paperwork for one first, you could take possession of that one item, but not the other.

I think that about sums it up.

Oh, yeah. The cost of the gun and suppressor are in addition to the $400 in tax stamps, and as others have mentioned, will be in the 4 figure range. Other NFA items can get up into the mid 5-figure range, depending on their rarity.

MGRacer
December 26, 2008, 11:14 PM
Quote:
If i was to buy it, can i then go and get the proper paperwork for it after the fact, or would i be in trouble?
You would be in trouble. You need to comply with the law prior to taking posession of the NFA items.

Actually it is standard practice to buy it or purchase it prior to filling out all the paper work. I had to pay at least 50% down and most of the time 100% to start the paper work which is started by the current owner or dealer. What you cannot do until the paperwork is approved is take possession of the Title II item (MG or suppressor etc).

My Mac10 -- BTW -- it is the MG that Jamie Lee Curtis "used -- or rather dropped" in the movie "True Lies" -- still has the bent sights from bouncing down the stairs.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/Racer351/Mac10withSuppressor.jpg

Al Thompson
December 27, 2008, 03:50 AM
444, when some one approaches a FA transaction is such a cavilier manner, I'd hope someone would (as y'all have done) give him the correct information to keep him out of trouble.

Beats telling him "No problem! Just be sure to pay in cash and take your toothbrush with you when you pick it up!" :D

Beretta686
December 27, 2008, 08:46 AM
My Mac10 -- BTW -- it is the MG that Jamie Lee Curtis "used -- or rather dropped" in the movie "True Lies" -- still has the bent sights from bouncing down the stairs.

No kidding? How did you acquire a "Hollywood" gun? I figured any NFA toy in Hollywood was pretty much stuck there.

VUPDblue
December 27, 2008, 09:19 AM
Just a guess, but maybe he got it when Stembridge went out of business?

JohnKSa
December 27, 2008, 10:52 AM
Actually it is standard practice to buy it or purchase it prior to filling out all the paper work....prior to taking posession... ;)

444
December 27, 2008, 12:40 PM
"444, when some one approaches a FA transaction is such a cavilier manner, I'd hope someone would (as y'all have done) give him the correct information to keep him out of trouble. "


Giving correct information is terrific. That is what the guy wanted and needed. Which makes me wonder why instead of giving him any correct information you instead posted "Sounds very fishy".


Years ago, on this board, a guy came on and posted that he wanted to buy a machine gun. I saw that he was in Las Vegas and I sent him an IM. I told him that I was also from Las Vegas and that I had been to the local machine gun match the previous weekend and there was a guy there that had a brand new unfired Vector Uzi for sale. Long story short, he called the guy and bought it. Nice and simple: BUT, I knew I had to IM him instead of posting on his thread because I would be accused of being a felon. Instead of helping the guy, I knew from previous experience, we would have a number of people (most of whom don't own full auto weapons and never went through the process) accuse us both of being criminals. So, I handled it off the board because the board is counterproductive to our sport.

Instead of trying to scare people away from exercising their rights as Americans, why don't we support them ?
Instead of assuming your fellow gun owners are participating in criminal activity why don't you instead assume they are nice, responsible, law abiding citizens who are exercising their rights as Americans and enjoying their hobby instead of immediately assuming they are crooks ?

When I decided to enter the NFA weapons game I learned what was involved off the internet on various gun forums. I didn't learn a damn thing about it from all the people accusing each other of being criminals. In fact, for many years I was afraid to buy my first NFA weapon because of my fellow gun owners. It wasn't the media that scared me away from it. It wasn't the BATFE. It wasn't getting the CLEO signoff and it wasn't the price. It was my fellow gun owners.


Just one man's opinion that I know will never go anywhere because I have been complaining about this for years.
When you see our gun rights eroding day by day, realize that a significant part of the problem is not liberals, it is US. We can't band together. We instead attack each other like a pack of dogs. We can't wait to accuse each other or wrongdoing. We can't wait to rat each other out. And this is from people "into" the hobby enough to hang out on gun related internet forums.
Our days are numbered.

Snowmanx7
December 27, 2008, 03:21 PM
I def agree with 444 on this. I don't have the cash to get an NFA weapon or I would. Nobody ever posts anything on NFA weapons without someone bringing up Club Fed.

MGRacer
December 27, 2008, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by JohnKSa
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGRacer
Actually it is standard practice to buy it or purchase it prior to filling out all the paper work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
...prior to taking posession...


Reading is fundamental. :o


Originally posted by Beretta686
My Mac10 -- BTW -- it is the MG that Jamie Lee Curtis "used -- or rather dropped" in the movie "True Lies" -- still has the bent sights from bouncing down the stairs.
No kidding? How did you acquire a "Hollywood" gun? I figured any NFA toy in Hollywood was pretty much stuck there.

Some were/are fully transferable and were sold a few years back by the rental company -- VUPDblue got it right.

Originally posted by VUPDblue
Just a guess, but maybe he got it when Stembridge went out of business?

VUPDblue
December 28, 2008, 12:47 PM
I know it's a longshot, but I'd like to be in the front of the line if you ever want to part with it...:o

Hkmp5sd
December 28, 2008, 03:52 PM
Some were/are fully transferable and were sold a few years back by the rental company -- VUPDblue got it right.



I remember seeing the guns from HEAT when the sale was going on.

Socrates
December 28, 2008, 05:08 PM
444:

When I see such stuff, I think caution is the name of the game, not because it's illegal, but, because of prior actions by the BATF, which were illegal.

Also, Mac 10's that have altered bolts, and are not papered as machine guns, are illegal, IIRC.

PTK
December 28, 2008, 05:41 PM
Open bolt designs produced before a certain date are legal, IIRC. They have to be either papered as MGs or SA only.

Gun Trust Lawyer
February 17, 2009, 09:47 PM
As long as the Mac 10 was manufactured prior to 1986 and the current owner has a Form 4 for the Mac 10 and a form 4 for the suppressor you can purchase them. The process involves the following steps.
You will probably be asked to prepay for a portion of the item or all of it but may not take possession until you are approved with your form 4 for each item.

If you CLEO will not sign off on the form 4's you can use a business entity like a corporation, LLC, or a trust to make the purchase. If you do this it is advisable to create the entity first and have the entity purchase the weapons so that the paperwork you submit to the ATF matches the actual transaction. Most people make a mistake with this and technically violate the NFA. If you would like help filling out the form 4 I have instructions for a trust at http://www.GunTrustLawyer.com/form4.html .

Once you receive it the items it is important not to let others who are not co-trustees on the trust use the items as the NFA defines a transfer to include "loaning". In addition, you need to be careful to include your spouse or other family members, who are eligible, who know the combination to the gun safe or you would like to be able to shoot the items so you are not violating the NFA through constructive possession.

Most of all remember that just because you obtain a transfer permit, does not mean your trust is valid. If the trust is not valid you have violated the NFA and are subject to 10 years in jail and a $250,000 enhanced penalty that applies to NFA trusts. You might argue that the trust is not valid so the $10,000 penalty should apply.

Hope this helps clear up some of the issues on this.