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lookin71
December 20, 2008, 11:21 PM
Hello Guys,

I am new here, and a search of the forums didn't answer my questions, so I have to ask.

I live in Kentucky and we have a black powder season for deer. I have had the opportunity to shoot at more than one deer, but with my black powder rifle you can't possibly reload fast enough.

So what are your thoughts on a .44 Revolver? Are the ballistics strong enough?

In my rifle I shoot .44 bullets with a sabot: do they make stuff like that for revolvers?

I also use the pellets rather than the powder. Do they make pellets for handguns too?

What range would I be limited to? (Just curious, as I shoot mostly in the woods at 30 to 40 yards).

I am headed out for the last day of black powder in the morning, and maybe next year I can take the revolver out!! It shall be COLD in the morning, but you gotta love it!

Thanks for your thoughts on this,

Donnie

Fingers McGee
December 20, 2008, 11:49 PM
I've never tried (or wanted to try) hunting with a C&B revolver. These are my initial gut reactions to your questions.

So what are your thoughts on a .44 Revolver? Are the ballistics strong enough? A Dragoon or Walker with a heavy charge might be at short range

In my rifle I shoot .44 bullets with a sabot: do they make stuff like that for revolvers? Not that I'm aware of

I also use the pellets rather than the powder. Do they make pellets for handguns too? You can use pellets in a revolver; but their performance is problematic from what I've been led to believe.

What range would I be limited to? (Just curious, as I shoot mostly in the woods at 30 to 40 yards). I wouldn't try anything longer than that; and I wouldnt try any shot unless I was very experienced with the revolver in question.

JonnyReb
December 20, 2008, 11:50 PM
If i'm not mistaken, blackpowder revolvers were intended for round balls. They are fairly light and velocity is low. I don't think it would be a humane way of taking a deer although at very close range it might do the job. Others who know more than i will chime in but i'd see it as a good way to finish off a dying animal, already shot with your rifle, than as a way of hunting..J.R.

Hawg Haggen
December 21, 2008, 04:15 AM
Personally I wouldn't do it. I don't think sabots would work very well out of a revolver but they do make conicals which require a reduced powder charge to load. Pellets from what I've heard are problematical in a revolver. Loose powder is better not to mention much cheaper.

lookin71
December 21, 2008, 05:44 AM
Well, maybe I will get one just for the heck of it.

I still like the idea of having one, whether I use it to hunt or not.

Donnie

mykeal
December 21, 2008, 07:08 AM
Saboted rounds are almost never used in revolvers as the transition from chamber to bore is not well executed, and the barrel is too short to properly stabilize the round. It can be done but the results are not consistent from round to round.

Conicals have been used in revolvers with mixed success for over a hundred years. The issue is properly seating the bullet on the powder. If it can be consistently done properly (with the cone aligned with the bore) there's no reason they won't work. The down side is their weight and the short time they have to accelerate in the barrel; they do not achieve high muzzle velocities and are thus not as effective. Recoil is also higher, of course. Never seat a conical with the point down as this could lead to damage to the gun.

Round balls are the most popular and most effective deer hunting round in a revolver. At the short ranges you should be shooting they are very capable of delivering a killing shot; they expand well, better than conicals in most cases.

.44 caliber is the smallest you should use for deer sized game.

Now for the lecture: black powder handguns are good hunting guns, but their range is short. Most good handgun hunters shoot from 25-35 and always less than 50 yards with black powder due to their inherently lower muzzle velocity and on target energy. The skills necessary to hunt from those ranges are highly developed and not something most of us can do routinely. You already well know the obligation to deliver a killing shot; getting close enough to do so with a black powder handgun is no simple task. Unless you are very sure of your hunting and stalking skills you should avoid hunting with a bp handgun as your primary weapon. Save it for the day when you've honed your skills to the expert point.

bobn
December 21, 2008, 10:14 AM
have you considered a 50 cal large single shot pistol? i carry one with my hawken while blackpowder hunting. bobn

CraigC
December 21, 2008, 10:53 AM
I would say no, unless you are heavily experienced with more capable handguns.

long rider
December 21, 2008, 10:53 AM
OK i will come in on this one.
I shot my first white tail in ks with my 58 rem, 35 grns
of 3f real bp and a 454 rb at 20 feet, it went down like
a sack of spuds, if you hit in the right place most will go
down, so yes you can take game with a revolver.:cool:

Raider2000
December 21, 2008, 11:24 AM
A C&B Revolver is quite capable of taking Deer size game at reasonable "40 yards or less" range but the weapon & person has to be in unison when taking on the challenge of hunting Game with a C&B Revolver.

Loads should be on the heavy side to achieve the most effective energy required to take these larger game & ofcorse practice, practice, & more practice is in order for the person to know what he/she & their weapon is capable of at those maximum distances.

Round ball is the most popular projectile with a charge of 35+ grains of powder would produce very positive results but a good conical like the ones cast from Lee's molds "of Pure Lead" with a charge of 28+ grains of powder will produce a slightly heavier striking energy than a Ball would but like mykeal mentioned they do not expand as much as a ball would.

With this information, the person has to have a little more patience, & reservation like an Archer to wait for the closest shots so that a clean Killing shot is possible, I hunt with Archery gear mostly with only on occasion with my Muzzle Loader & for over 25 years I have followed a simple but effective rule in taking game with my Bow & would be a good one for the Black Powder Pistol hunter.
20 Yard Rule.
I can keep my broad heads in a 3" group nearly all day at 60 yards at the target range.
I refuse to try a shot at any animal past 40 yards.
I know that my Archery gear & I am very capable of taking even Elk out at the 60 yard range but in the woods there are variables that cannot be controlled like can be at the target range & lessening the range by 20 yards will give me the confidence & the know that I can cleanly take an animal with no regrets of me making that bad shot that I could have avoided.
Following a similar rule in Black Powder Pistol hunting will not only make you a more ethical & responsible hunter but will also make the hunt that much more satisfying that you got that close to your quarry.

4V50 Gary
December 21, 2008, 12:15 PM
I've been told that Indians take deer with 22 LR rifles. So, when it comes to a black powder revolver, it's a matter of skill with the gun and woodcraft. You either have to know how to stalk or remain in a hide and allow them to close the distance.

jaymag
December 21, 2008, 12:35 PM
If you own a nice kentucky rifle use that.It's leave you more room fo error,to make that pie plate shot.It would be a little bit tricky for a bp revolver.

long rider
December 21, 2008, 01:21 PM
TRICKY:confused::rolleyes:
Thats when your skill takes over,.:D

lookin71
December 21, 2008, 02:09 PM
I appreciate all your comments. Thank you very much.

You know, if you like firearms, then you like firearms. If you hunt, why not hunt with anything in your arsenal? As long as it is legal, and it certainly is in Kentucky.

I know about the skill issues. I have a great deal of experience and training with firearms of all kinds. It was sort of a "professional" thing at one time. I don't get to practice as much as I used to because a governmental agency used to pay for all the training and buy the rounds. It was more fun to shoot up a couple hundred bucks of taxpayer money than MY money.

So, skill isn't really an issue. I just want to be humane. And I had to stop my wife from buying me the revolver for Christmas. I wanted to be sure what to get first.

I also enjoy archery hunting, but I don't even pratice out to 60 yards. I wish. I have room in the front yard. I may have to think about that. For me, I stick to 20 yards with my bow. That is not likely to change for me.

Thanks to all,

Donnie

HOGGHEAD
December 21, 2008, 07:04 PM
I had one of the Ruger BP revolvers. The revolver shot well for the first 2 or 3 shots. After that the accuracy fell off drastically. I shot one deer(doe) in KY with mine about 15 years ago. The doe ran about 40 yards and died. Just as I suspected it would. A round ball through the lungs at 35 yards is a dead deer.

The BP revolver is not the most powerful firearm in your arsenal, I am sure of that. But as long as you keep your shooting inside a reasonable range(40 yards or less), and your skill level and hunting ability is up to snuff, then why not. Tom.

simonkenton
December 21, 2008, 07:53 PM
"I live in Kentucky and we have a black powder season for deer. I have had the opportunity to shoot at more than one deer, but with my black powder rifle you can't possibly reload fast enough."

You don't need to reload fast if you do a good job with the first shot.
I have killed 7 deer, and 6 wild hogs with a .490 patched round ball, from my Hawken and Tennessee Mountain Rifle. Eighty grains of black powder.
Every one, a pass through lung shot. None made it 50 yards.

That is the point of muzzleloading season, you have to get real good with your rifle, and focus on making that first shot a good one.


I have done a good bit of shooting with cap and ball pistols, but never at big game.
I am not surprised to read of the accounts of those on here who killed a deer with this pistol.
You may notice, nobody has needed two shots.
Whatever the pistol will do the rifle will do much better.

lookin71
December 21, 2008, 07:57 PM
What about ond of THESE???

LOL I knew I had seen them in catalogs or online. I had to find it again.

1858 New Army Target Carbine
341200 Carbine .44 18" Blue Steel Frame, Brass Trigger Guard and Buttplate $549

NOBOBY else would have one of these in the woods or at the range. Different.



Found on another website:

Re: revolver rifle 44/40

I've got one of the Uberti cap and ball .44 revolving rifles. It's a replica of the Model 1866 Remington revolving rifle, but in a carbine length. You don't hold it with one hand out in front of the cylinder supporting the barrel unless you like powder burns and shaved lead pieces hitting your arm, wrist and hand. I use a 2 hand grip on the stock utilizing that spur on the trigger guard and is quite surprising how steady it is. There's a pamplet that comes with the gun that demonstrates the grip position. These guns are pretty light and the usual two handed grip isn't required or desired. And their accuracy is surprising too.

lookin71
December 21, 2008, 08:08 PM
"You may notice, nobody has needed two shots."

Thanks for your response. Maybe I wasn't specific enough. Last year, on the last day of black powder, just at dusk, a line of does came into view. I shot the lead doe, then the rest scattered, with some standing broadside at about 75 yards.

What to do???

If I had a repeater, I could shoot another doe.

This year, I shot the lead doe of three, and the other two ran off to the edge of the woods and stared at the downed doe. Again, what to do???

I could have shot one of the two others. If it was modern firearms I don't have to tell you what would have happened: MORE venison. Three so far this year for me and the inlaws. Oh, he got one too.

I don't need a second shot on a single deer, I need to shoot the second deer if the opportunity is there.

arcticap
December 21, 2008, 08:32 PM
Yes it is different.
The issues with these is that the shooter should always wear safety glasses to protect the eyes from blowback gases and flame. The face is being placed closer to the back of the cylinder than with most other BP revolvers.
Also the hand must always be kept away from anywhere in front of the loaded cylinder so it doesn't get blown off if there's a misfire.
Is it truely a handgun?
Not that it really matters, but it's more of a carbine.
What does keep it closer to the pistol class is the fact that the cylinder holds the same finite amount of powder as the C&B revolvers do.
That's why the Walker, Dragoon and Ruger Old Army pistols were mentioned because they do have a larger powder capacity.
Anything legal that you choose to hunt with is fine with me.
But you probably want something that will be fun to shoot when not hunting too.
The Ruger Old Army is a stronger pistol and isn't as prone to breakage over time either, and in some ways is considered to be indestructable simply by shooting it. Plus they just may shoot some conicals better due their tighter spec's. When some revolvers are loaded with 777 powder, they can become quite potent even with the right conicals. So a strong one that will last a lifetime and also hold its value is desirable.
The Ruger OA was recently discontinued so their values will only go up over time.
All of these revolver cylinders can be bored out a little to hold more powder, but IMO the Ruger is probably the one that an American hunter would appreciate the quality of the most. Plus it's more powerful to begin with because the bore spec. is closer to its chamber diameter, the cylinder gap is tighter and it holds more powder because it's chambers are .457 with a more modern design and made from stronger steel.
Good luck and enjoy whatever you do decide to purchase. :)

whosyrdaddy
December 21, 2008, 08:48 PM
Have you considered a double rifle? It may be better suited for the stated purpose. This one is being offered for about $800, but less expensive examples can be found. Click the picture for the details.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/products/REX-100_L.jpg (http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=REX-100)

Raider2000
December 21, 2008, 10:03 PM
"You may notice, nobody has needed two shots."

Thanks for your response. Maybe I wasn't specific enough. Last year, on the last day of black powder, just at dusk, a line of does came into view. I shot the lead doe, then the rest scattered, with some standing broadside at about 75 yards.

What to do???

If I had a repeater, I could shoot another doe.

This year, I shot the lead doe of three, and the other two ran off to the edge of the woods and stared at the downed doe. Again, what to do???

I could have shot one of the two others. If it was modern firearms I don't have to tell you what would have happened: MORE venison. Three so far this year for me and the inlaws. Oh, he got one too.

I don't need a second shot on a single deer, I need to shoot the second deer if the opportunity is there.

Um in this situation a C&B Revolver would not be the weapon to try for any of those deer that had ran off because the range would be way too far for a clean shot even with the Uberti copy of the Remington Revolving carbine due to the lack of energy that these weapons would not posess at that range, remember that these revolvers are capable of taking deer size game but the range has to be 40 yards or less to be sure of suitable penetration for a clean kill.

whosyrdaddy has a good suggestion for your situation, a dubble rifle like that or the Kodiak dubble rifle would be a better suitable weapon for those situations where a possible second deer on the ground at those ranges is possible & would posess sufficient energy for up to 150 yards if needed.

lookin71
December 22, 2008, 07:31 AM
Thanks guys.

I like the traditions double rifle. I had no idea they made one of those.

AND I could have a revolver for a backup. How kewl is that.

Thanks to all.

I will find a revolver regardless, but the double rifle is the thing for me.

I knew the experienced members would help me solve my dilemma.

All I have to do is acquire some new toys. :D

Thanks,

Donnie

simonkenton
December 22, 2008, 08:40 AM
Thanks for your response. Maybe I wasn't specific enough. Last year, on the last day of black powder, just at dusk, a line of does came into view. I shot the lead doe, then the rest scattered, with some standing broadside at about 75 yards.

Do like Sergeant York.
When they are in a line, shoot the last one first, and the rest won't know what happened.
Well, Sgt. York did that with turkeys, I don't know if that would work for deer.

I will say, having hunted quite a bit with muzzleloaders, I have learned to reload fast. I carry those little plastic speed loaders, and one of them carries powder, bullet, and primer.
The instant I pull the trigger I am reloading.

45Marlin carbine
December 22, 2008, 09:44 AM
I have used both a '58 Rem 'Buffalo' model w/12" barrel and my ROA for takeing wild/feral hog. my nephew was in the blind both times w/me he had his H&R 20 ga Mag loaded w/3" #3 buck. 3 shots = 2 hogs. one took 2 shots I shot a moveing sow about 300lbs too far back and high and had a long track-down to finish it off. the other I got w/a head/neck shot DRT.
I would not hesitate to take a deer with either provided an ethical shot presented, but much rather have my .50 cal Hawken.

lookin71
December 22, 2008, 11:28 PM
Just a thought on why I shoot the first doe. The lead doe is usually exactly that: the leader.

In low light situations, I try to get what I am after. And that is pounds of venison. I don't shoot the baby deer, bucks or does. There will be more meat on the lead doe. She will likely be older.

I will always shoot the largest animal I can see. That is how I sort of figure things out on which one to shoot. If in doubt about that, the one front is bigger or as big as anything behind her.

Unless there is a large buck behind her. I like when that happens!!

hillbille
December 23, 2008, 08:27 PM
one more thing to consider, here in WV it is illegal to use a rifle or pistol which is not a single shot, double rifles are only legal if one barrell is loaded, if this happens to be the case in KY there is not much need to put out the money on a double rifle if you won't be able to use it. I would check your local law before buying.

Osage
December 23, 2008, 10:11 PM
A couple of years ago I killed a small deer with a Walker. Probably had at least 50 grn 3f black powder. It was an easy shot and the deer didn't run too far. Probably wasn't more than 25 - 30 yards away. I don't know if I'd personally try it past 30 yards but a lethal shot could be made. I made darn sure that a cap & ball was legal in Missouri first. the ball went clean through the lungs and out the other side but like i said, it was a small deer. I assume a large doe would have gone down if hit in the same spot but probably would have run farther. I didn't really bring the gun along as a primary weapon but when a golden opportunity presented itself, I couldn't resist. I just remember taking a deer down with a good shoulder shot earlier and then having it run off as i walked up to it. I brought the walker along for backup. Anyways, the lesson is ALWAYS RELOAD before approaching the deer.