View Full Version : Need to figure out a new caliber?
December 19, 2008, 11:33 AM
Just took the plunge into the T/C world. I just bought a blank Endeavor frame. When I receive it the frame will be registered as a pistol. My friend who I sometimes hunt with from NY State has hunted with Contender pistols for years and is the one who has got me interested in them.
I bought my frame as a pistol so I could use it both as a rifle and as a handgun if I wanted to. Not as an SBR or anything but in the proper configuration as a rifle or pistol.
I figure I'll get a varmint caliber first until I get the hang of shooting this pistol so I'll probably go with a .223 since I already load for that caliber. I want to do a .30-30AI as well but there are not any commercially made barrels in this caliber for the Encore frames so I'll have to save for a custom barrel. So I've been thinking of normal calibers for specialty pistols and going with a .338, .358, or .375 JDJ or just trying an oldie but a goody like the .250-3000 Savage.
December 19, 2008, 11:39 AM
Are you allowed to put a full stock on a pistol without ATF taxes?
December 19, 2008, 11:57 AM
As far as what I've read and understand you can take an T/C pistol Contender or Encore and make it a rifle. You can't make it a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) without paying for the Federal tax stamp. As long as I meet the minimum length requirements for a long gun I'm OK. You can not however take a rifle frame and turn it into a pistol legally.
What I understand is I can put a rifle stock on the frame and go with a 16" or longer rifle barrel and be legal. With a minimum total length on the firearm of 26". I can not put a rifle stock and use a 15" barrel and be legal without paying the taxes and having the firearm registered as such.
The actual length of the barrels of a long gun are subject various laws in many jurisdictions, for example by the National Firearms Act in the United States, which sets a minimum length of 16 inches (40 cm) for rifle barrels and 18 inches (45 cm) for shotgun barrels. Canada has a limit of 18.5 inches (47 cm) for either. In addition, both countries put a minimum fireable length for long guns with detachable or folding stocks of 26 inches (66 cm).
December 19, 2008, 03:51 PM
Latest issue of Shooting Times has an article by one of their regular writers on what he thinks are the seven best Contender calibers.
December 19, 2008, 04:48 PM
I have 2 .223 rifle barrels ( one from TC and the other from www.eabco.com )and they are the ones that spend most of the time on my encore frame. Next up are the .243 win ( also an www.eabco.com barrel ) and the .308 win factory barrels. I would like to eventually get a .45/70 barrel. I figure you can do just about anything with the above four cartridges in North America.
I have three more rifle barrels but don't use them much anymore ( .22-250, .270 win, and .30-06 ).
edit: You requested info on Pistol barrels....I should learn to read more slowly...
My two favorite pistol cartridges are the .223 and the .243 win in 15" factory barrels. I also have a .44 and a .308 with a factory muzzle tamer brake but it is a bit obnoxious to shoot. A .243 win with 95 or 100 grain bullets is all you need for deer. BTW, you CAN NOT bring a handgun frame into NYS unless you have a NYS pistol permit, which you can not get unless you are a resident. Sorry...
You'll need more room in the safe!!! have fun
December 20, 2008, 01:27 AM
"...want to do a .30-30AI..." Buy a .30-30 barrel and have it re-chambered. You'd be looking at reloading and there's not much 'improvement' over a .30-30. Have a look at this. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/3030atext.htm
December 20, 2008, 04:19 AM
BTW, you CAN NOT bring a handgun frame into NYS unless you have a NYS pistol permit, which you can not get unless you are a resident. Sorry...
Thanks for the heads up, I already knew about this law as I hunted deer there earlier this year with my friend around Fillmore. I watched him take a bear in AK with a .358 JDJ at 200 yards and a Pronghorn here in CO at 250 yards with a .30-30 AI. I have no problems hunting with a rifle just that he has got me interested in what pistols can do by seeing what a specialty pistol is capable of doing.
Buy a .30-30 barrel and have it re-chambered. You'd be looking at reloading and there's not much 'improvement' over a .30-30. Have a look at this.
Thanks for the link, I already hand load so doing the .30-30AI isn't a problem. When my friend came out from NY and I got to try his pistol out on Prairie dogs I was hitting them on a fairly regular basis at 200 yards with this cartridge. The AI may not give me much extra but I'll take 200 +/- extra fps where ever I can get it out of a 14-15" barrel. The problem right now with the .30-30 AI is the frame I chose, I can't find an off the shelf barrel in .30-30 for an Encore.
December 21, 2008, 05:09 PM
Since you handload you can always buy a .308 win and load it down a bit to make it more manageable.
Another great option would be the 7mm-08, i have shot one and the recoil wasn't noticably more than a .243 win.
IMO you can't go wrong with any of the .308 based rounds in the encore.
December 21, 2008, 08:37 PM
Nut'in wrong with the 250-3000. It's everything you need for Whitetail at any reasonable distance. The 7-30 Waters is another moderate cartridge and last trip to the ammo depot I saw factory fodder that could serve as a brass source. The 300 Savage is another moderate and it might work well in a shorter carbine with a high efficiency rating (similar efficiency as the 7-30).
December 22, 2008, 06:53 AM
Nut'in wrong with the 250-3000. It's everything you need for Whitetail at any reasonable distance. The 7-30 Waters is another moderate cartridge and last trip to the ammo depot I saw factory fodder that could serve as a brass source.
7-30 is defiantly an option, I don't currently own any 7mm cartridges in my safe. I'm still waiting for my .25-06 to get home from the smith's so I figured a .250 Savage might be fun to play with in a quarter bore as a 15" pistol. I got the Encore to play with cartridges that would be too expensive to play with in other configurations. We will see how it goes.
December 22, 2008, 08:25 AM
You can make a pistol into a rifle (not a short barreled rifle. 16" minimum), but if it's listed as a rifle, even though it's the same action, you can't make a rifle into a pistol.
December 22, 2008, 12:02 PM
taylorce1, where did you get/order your encore frame?
im still looking for a decent price.
http://www.bullberry.com/ ive been looking at these guys bbls too.
midwayusa has a $25 rebate on factory bbls too.
im planning on getting .204 ruger for varmint.im also thinking about 30-06, and .300 wisper as well.
actualy ive got about a dozen bbl on my list so far. lol
December 22, 2008, 12:48 PM
I think you should reconsider the 3030AI and JDJones choices.
The only thing the 3030AI gives you is couple hundred feet per second.
This is good in a contender but unneeded in an encore since you can mount a factory 300 rem mag on this reciever. You can push a .308 bullet at any speed up to magnum speed.
The jdJones cartrideges are designed to get the most velocity out of the contender frame. They do not extend the capabilities of the encore frame.
You will be buying a custom barrel,forming brass and reloading when you could buy a stock barrel, standard brass and use factory ammo.
Example: .35 whelen or .358 JDJones
December 22, 2008, 01:30 PM
I no longer own a Contender, so some of this may not apply, but here it is anyway.
Rimmed cartridges work well in single shots due to extractor/ejector design (on Contenders, Encores may be different), so if it were me, I would choose a rimmed cartridge. The JDJ cartridges are rimmed, and .30 JDJ or .375 JDJ would fit with the calibers you already load for. Right?
30-30 is not a bad round, especially with BTSP bullets, but you gain very little in the AI chamber.
250 Savage is a neat round, and it's all you need for deer up to big bruiser mulies, my Dad hunted with a 250-3000 Savage for 40+ years, and he never had issues with it.
For an all-around carridge, maybe a 7mm-08 would be the ticket, or a 308?
December 22, 2008, 01:40 PM
bcarver, bad choices? I understand what you are saying but I thought the JDJ cartridges were great choices in the pistol length barrels am I wrong? I don't want to burn unnecessary powder if I don't have too. Besides I already have .338-06, .358 Win, .35 Whelen and .375 Ruger.
The whole reason I got this frame was to play with cartridges that would be to expensive to play with in bolt rifles. Sure I could buy some old Savage 340 or H&R single shot in .30-30 and have it reamed to .30-30 AI for the same amount of money as a custom barrel. 7-20 Waters, 6mm-223 and a few others would be a lot more expensive to have built in a bolt action to play with than an Encore. I'm kind of bored with standard calibers why not do something a little different?
taylorce1, where did you get/order your encore frame?
im still looking for a decent price.
I found a guy posting this on another forum:
Ed Contender's ordered 50 Endeavor frames and will sale you an Endeavor frame. Cost $325 frame only plus $6 shipping. Also, Ed will due a trigger job for and additional $30. Pull would be around 2 1/2 pounds.
I just googled it and found Ed's web page, called him and ordered.
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