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bob88144
December 10, 2008, 11:28 PM
how would you fill about some bring and Assault Rifle platform weapon into hunting camp to use? Would you be O.K. with it or have a hard timing stomaching that decision. Honesty is welcome. I know ethics is a questions so i will i throw in a couple of factors. .308 caliber, scoped, single shot: no burst or fully auto. five round mag hunting deer out to 200 yards

johnnypi45
December 10, 2008, 11:37 PM
I just bought a Remington R-25 (it was available and in my price range....and the camo has actually really grown on me).....sounds awful familiar:).....I have absolutely no problem with it, as i see this no differently than using a military designed bolt action (mauser variants etc.). Just my opinion, and i find that most military rifles can be made extremely accurate in some really cool chamberings.

Petey

wpcexpert
December 10, 2008, 11:47 PM
Why not?????

armedandsafe
December 10, 2008, 11:49 PM
If you do your part properly, the deer never sees what rifle you are using. The platform is only that: a platform to store the cartridge and fire the bullet.

Pops

mavracer
December 10, 2008, 11:56 PM
I'd feel ok since it's likely to be me.
planing a boar hunt and considering my M1A.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 12:07 AM
While I do not own nor plan to own an EBR, I have no problem with them. I have known many folks who shouldn't be hunting with even a slingshot but it is not the weapon's fault! Florida does have a 5 shot magazine rule for rifles...
Brent

Scorch
December 11, 2008, 12:14 AM
Fillings on AR style rifles in camp?Myself, I don't like fillings except in cream donuts. Oh, and jelly donuts, too. Oooh, ooh, and those Bavarian creams, and . . . oh, never mind. I think ARs are just fine.

FrontSight
December 11, 2008, 12:31 AM
Please, use the proper terminology & don't be bamboozeled by the media & politicians: It's only properly called an "assault rifle" when it is full auto. :D

onthejon55
December 11, 2008, 12:38 AM
i voted Go Ahead but i do have some warnings:

dnt be surprised if people call u Rambo

dnt be surprised if it gets handled by everyone checking it out

dnt be surprised of all the people who make fun of you show up the next year with the same gun :D

New_Pollution1086
December 11, 2008, 02:06 AM
I have filings in my teeth:o

I feel its all good.

T

HiBC
December 11, 2008, 05:04 AM
I suppose the same dilemna occured when a man showed up in a camp full of muzzleloaders with a Sharps or a Rolling block.Then those dang repeating lever guns.If that wasn't bad enough,folks started using those bayonet handle bolt guns from the war!!Then city slickes from Abercombie and Fitch got scope.You'd think a man with eyes could do anything with iron sights.
Brother bought an AR about 1965.SN in the 3000s range.That is only 44 years ago I started shooting one.Shooters can be a little slow to get used to new ideas.How would you feel about an 03 springfield?A rem 742?
Townsend Whelen"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

A freefloated AR that shoots less than 1 MOA is to be expected.They can have a good trigger,and mount optics well.A well placed .308 round,does it matter?

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 05:11 AM
HiBC, I do not know the exact model but my grandma loved her Springfield .30-06. From my memory I am gambling it was a 1903 with a sporter stock on it....
Brent

HiBC
December 11, 2008, 05:36 AM
More than likely a DCM Springfield sporter.That was back when the Government considered citizens to be good people and encourage us to be good shots.

Bitmap
December 11, 2008, 04:29 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if it's legal in your state and county, then full auto and a suppressor would be great!! Unfortunately, that combination is not legal for game animals in TX, but it is for wild pigs. I would love to be waiting with a beltfed when 50+ wild pigs come along in a bunch.

ETA:

If you do your part properly, the deer never sees what rifle you are using.

I have always wanted to hunt with a rifle that is so scary the deer just drop dead from fear at the sight of it so I don't even have to shoot them.

Just for the heck of it I'll post this pic of my 7 year old son with his first deer. If you search you can find the original thread down there somewhere.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q241/Bitmaps_photos/2008-2009%20hunting/Thanksgiving2008256.jpg

bclark1
December 11, 2008, 06:22 PM
I brought the SOCOM-16 out this year :D

Friend's dad made a comment about it when we went for a last-day drive, but hey, it's a heck of a bush gun.

Stealff
December 11, 2008, 07:41 PM
As far as I'm concerned I dont care as long as its a legal caliber, I aint gonna give you crap about it, to each his own, if your more comfortable hunting with an AR platform rifle cool.

zahnzieh
December 11, 2008, 08:55 PM
As long as it shoots straight, who cares!:D

Yithian
December 11, 2008, 09:52 PM
1: Your spell checker is working fine.
2: Your English needs a tad more work. Feelings, rather than Fillings, etc.
3: An "Assault Rifle platform weapon " doesn't exist if there is no assault taking place.

If the Wildlife Management in your area allows it, why fear it?
A Browning BAR in 308, is no different, in its end-use, than my AK chambered in 308.
The AK is just far more comfortable to shoulder and fire than a Browning.
The Browning is probably far more accurate. In heavy brush, that means little.
Here in Texas, if I run into 15 pigs and piglets, my AK is going to 'down' more meat than the Browning, due to magazine size.
An AR-10 is accurate and comfortable. Best of both worlds. And still a 308Win.

Just because some military in the world uses 'it' to shoot people, does not make it more dangerous than any other rifle.

Try it once yourself.
Shoulder a "Hunting Rifle" like a Browning. Then shoulder an AR or an AK.
Which is more comfortable for you to hold?
Cocked wrist and limited finger mobility of the Browning? Or straight wrist and full range of motion with the pistol grip rifle?

publius
December 11, 2008, 10:12 PM
I feel just fine about AR's in my camp, you can put it next to mine and fill it with whatever you like.

MeekAndMild
December 11, 2008, 10:39 PM
Honesty is welcome.

First of all, semiautomatic rifles are not assault rifles and it P.O.s me to see otherwise intelligent people refer to them as such. Deer hunting has nothing to do with the jungles of Viet Nam nor the streets of Bagdad nor mall ninjas nor any form of assault and I resent people bandying around a military term that has been so misused by the radical antigun press. If you want to call them ugly black rifles go ahead, or even homeland defense rifles but please lose that terminology! Having said that I'll move on. Sorry for the abrasive tone but there are certain defamatory terms that should not be said in polite company.

Now, concerning the AR platform and deer hunting, I've not hunted with anything but my Grendel this year, as I consider the 6.5mm 120 grain Nosler ballistic tip to be the perfect whitetail cartridge and the rifle to be solid, water resistant and easy to carry. To date I've killed deer with .243, 6.5mm, .270, .35, .45 and .50 bullets but this little AR is the best compromise between preserving meat and knocking the deer down.

I consider the .308 to be bigger than needed for southern whitetails, but I like the concept of the Remington R-25 which has a nice Realtree camo finish. proving to all the room temperature IQ observers that even though its ugly it's not an ugly black rifle.

As for FA, burst, et cetera, my state allows semiautos but not machine guns, and allows 10 round magazines.

BTW, welcome to TFL. :D

jrothWA
December 11, 2008, 11:47 PM
is competent with its limitations.

Used to do a deer control hunt out on N. Manitou Island in L. Michiagn, run by the USNPS on it.
The last year I went there was one gent with a AR-15, proper mag and to two deer with it.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 11:54 PM
Knowing there is a guy in the woods with a .300 win mag BAR that never fires just one shot at RUNNING deer scares me far worse than a responsible hunter with an ar or even an ak out there...:rolleyes: Yes I know the man with the BAR and I hope to heaven he is on some private lease and not in the public woods I will hunt...
Brent

HAMMER1DOWN
December 12, 2008, 12:03 AM
Why not, i do?!? I use my stag for everything from little whistle pigs all the way up to deer, haven't tried elk but i don't think i will up in my area a .223 is just a little small for the ranges i would shoot. but yeah IMO go ahead.
Bones

texfar
December 12, 2008, 09:33 AM
Bitmap....you are my kinda guy!!:D OK, it's a battle rifle, so what, my M14 with traversing pod and a 20 round mag does just great on a field full of pigs. Get another guy down the field when they run that way and it sounds like Pork Chop Hill all over.

Got no probems with any AR style firearms in a hunting camp.

Bitmap
December 12, 2008, 02:20 PM
Bitmap....you are my kinda guy!!

Just trying to stir the pot.

OK, it's a battle rifle, so what, my M14 with traversing pod and a 20 round mag does just great on a field full of pigs. Get another guy down the field when they run that way and it sounds like Pork Chop Hill all over.

That sounds like fun.

We ought to organize a military rifle hunt - only military style rifles allowed. We could put out a mineral block and call it "the assault lick".

armsmaster270
December 12, 2008, 02:31 PM
I got a Remington 740 30-06 semi-auto. It's basically the same as the AR-10 High power, Semi-Auto, magazine fed but for some reason mine is politacaly correct because it is not military and "scarey looking" Its all hype if it shoots, it's an appropriate calibre it's ok.

BeCoole
December 12, 2008, 03:49 PM
There's no reason to be stuck in 1890.

johnwilliamson062
December 12, 2008, 06:10 PM
I plan on hunting with my Garand.

Beretta16
December 12, 2008, 06:25 PM
My DPMS was in the stand with me this past November, and my SOCOM 16 will be with me next year.

wogpotter
December 12, 2008, 06:51 PM
I'd be far more offended by the term "platform" being used in camp than by the presense of an EBR.
Probably because I'm the lad that brings a semi-auto .308 MBR into camp whenever I go there.
This isn't usually a problem with my camp buddies because they have more EBR's than I do.:eek:

On a serious note. I would check the regulations for caliber & season. I haven't had a problem with rangers, but in some areas the caliber is dependant on the hunting season, and the game being hunted.
Some areas don't want .30 cal semi-autos with 20-round mags in the area during hunting season, so be aware of the local regs. The rangers also know us, from repeatedvisits & know that we won't go hog wild (sorry, bad pun) & that helps too.

I had to hunt feral hogs with a .22rf, because the only game legal at the time was restricted to that caliber. Squirrels with a .308 is a touch excessive anyway.:rolleyes:

HAMMER1DOWN
December 12, 2008, 08:40 PM
Hey Bitmap i have never shot a wild hog but god d**n you could count me in!!!:D

TheManHimself
December 12, 2008, 08:48 PM
A .308 bullet is a .308 bullet, regardless of what kind of rifle it comes out of. And FYI there's not "FA or burst" on ARs unless you have $15,000+ to spend on a registered M16 lower. And there are no select-fire .308 lowers in the NFA registry.

FrankenMauser
December 12, 2008, 09:06 PM
Hunt as usual, place the shot, make it count... nothing changes, except the weapon launching the bullet.

My family rarelly hunts big game with our "EBRs" (Mini 30s, SKSs, AR-15s) but we almost always have them as backup/brush guns.
The animal will be just as dead.

Bitmap
December 13, 2008, 07:32 AM
Hey Bitmap i have never shot a wild hog but god d**n you could count me in!!!

If I ever get $50k saved up for a beltfed I'll let you know. I've shot hogs but never with a beltfed and I didn't mean to imply that I had. I hope nobody is disappointed.

Art Eatman
December 13, 2008, 09:15 AM
What counts is the cartridge, not the platform. I don't want .223s or 7.62x39s in camp as primary mule deer cartridges in this wide-open desert country where shots may be very long and the deer may be running.

Daryl
December 13, 2008, 10:50 AM
I don't use AR's, but others are welcome to use whatever they want.

Illegal activity isn't tollerated around me, but others are welcome to use whatever firearm and tactics are legal, as far as I'm concerned.

As a note-

Way back in the mid-1980's a buddy and I invited a friend to go predator calling with us. We both used bolt action rifles, and the friend wanted to use an AR-15.

He started giving us a hard time about our rifles, saying we weren't going to get anything, because he was going to "rat-tat-tat on 'em", and we would only get one shot each before he killed whatever came in.

Long story short, I killed two coyotes in two shots on the first stand. We got nothing in on the 2nd stand, but called another in on the 3rd stand. Tony saw it first, and opened up with his AR.

We were on a mesquite flat, so I stood up to see what was going on. I saw the coyote running at about 250 yards, and heard Tony's rifle click, so his 15 or 20 round mag was empty.

Yep, I dumped the coyote with one shot from my .243. I hit it through the hind quarters, so it was still alive for Tony to finish off.

I know some fellas who hunt with AR's and make every shot count. I've seen them take doubles and triples on a stand, and it's a wonder to see. Personally, I still like bolt action rifles for hunting, and I'll continue to use them because I kill just as many coyotes as anyone else, and sometimes more.

Daryl

FireForged
December 13, 2008, 11:11 AM
Assault Rifle?

HAMMER1DOWN
December 13, 2008, 12:51 PM
The main reason i bought my AR was for coyotes and gophers and that but i did take it out deer hunting and shot a small fawn, just for good jerky meat, but other than that i haven't shot any other big game.

indy245
December 13, 2008, 01:27 PM
Sounds like a BAR but in an AR platform, who cares what it looks like. I personally wouldn't use that platform (ARs are restricted here so I couldn't even if I wanted to).

Indy.

texfar
December 13, 2008, 01:41 PM
Hey Art, lighten up. I believe it was a general question on the style rifle, not cal. Different strokes for different folks. Use come common sense on Cal. vs game. I got no problem with "style" of firearm.
Ken

op STATED .308 CAL AND OTHER FACTORS. Fair enough.
Ken

cornbush
December 13, 2008, 02:01 PM
not a problem in my camp. several use them and they work just as good as any other rifle if the shooter does his job.. i like my rock river in bad weather better than any of my other rifles.

Crankylove
December 13, 2008, 02:45 PM
If its legal to hunt with, it dosen't matter to me what you go out with. This last October it rained for 3 days straight on the elk hunt, so my older brother was walkin around with his Rock River, and my younger brother has his SKS. They are legal to hunt with in Utah, and the rain would do them no harm. If you aren't going rock-n-roll, instead of aimed shots, with your black rifle, I couldnt care less if you hunt with it or not.

FrankenMauser
December 13, 2008, 03:09 PM
What counts is the cartridge, not the platform. I don't want .223s or 7.62x39s in camp as primary mule deer cartridges in this wide-open desert country where shots may be very long and the deer may be running.

A good hunter wouldn't take a long, running shot with those cartridges.
Hell, I won't even do it with my .270 Win.

Hunting with .223 Rem is an incindiary topic, no matter where it comes up. I don't want to get into the "Should people hunt with a .22?" arguement.

7.62x39, however....
.30-30 Winchester usually produces about 2,300 fps with most 130 grain SPs.
.30-30 Winchester usually produces about 2,200 fps with most 150 grain SPs.
7.62x39 usually produces about 2,200 fps with most 123-125 grain SPs.**
7.62x39 usually produces about 2,100 fps with most 150 grain SPs.

7.62x39 comes up only 100 fps short of the .30-30 with the two most common bullet weights for hunting. I'm sure 90% of the people on this board, from 'out west', find the .30-30 perfectly adequate for western game. Yet, quite a few of those same persons find the 7.62x39 to be inadequate. I don't understand the disparity.
(**Some of the older, steel-core ammo that was de-mil'd from FMJs to "Soft Points" will produce 2,400-2,500 fps. Explosive expansion on impact, and fantastic penetration from the steel core....)


The R-25 mentioned in this topic is even better, being chambered in .308; and conducive to scope mounting. Shoot what you want, with what you choose.

L_Killkenny
December 13, 2008, 05:22 PM
I have zero problems with the AR platform in the field. Light, accurate and reliable they make a great hunting arm in the "right" configuration. But if you show up with 30 round mags and all sorts of tacti-cool stuff on it I'll break the gun over your head. And for Gods sake lose that awful carry handle and have a decent scope on the thing. Ak's are a different matter. Show up with one of those and you'll be deemed an idiot and told to go away.

LK

ZeroJunk
December 13, 2008, 05:33 PM
I've hunted with people that I would want to be at least a mile away from even if they were using a Ruger No 1 . I don't care what you hunt with if you know what you are doing.

wogpotter
December 13, 2008, 05:56 PM
And for Gods sake lose that awful carry handle and have a decent scope on the thing.


"Carry handle? CARRY HANDLE! It's a rifle, not a bleedin' purse.:eek:

zoomie
December 13, 2008, 06:00 PM
I have zero problems with the AR platform in the field. Light, accurate and reliable they make a great hunting arm in the "right" configuration. But if you show up with 30 round mags and all sorts of tacti-cool stuff on it I'll break the gun over your head. And for Gods sake lose that awful carry handle and have a decent scope on the thing. Ak's are a different matter. Show up with one of those and you'll be deemed an idiot and told to go away.
I'm glad you've taken it upon yourself to decide what's "right" for every hunter. Jim Zumbo would be proud.

MeekAndMild
December 13, 2008, 07:40 PM
For what it's worth I looked up some autoloader history today. This is what I found.

John Browning filed his first gas operating mechanism patent in 1890 (http://nebraskanews.blogspot.com/2004/12/semi-automatic-firearms-were-not.html) and the first commercially viable centerfire semiautomatic rifle to be introduced to the American public was the Winchester Model 1905 (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=27265). Remington came out with an autoloader shotgun in 1905 (see the first link above) and a rifle in 1906, changing its name to the Model 8 (http://www.remington.com/library/history/firearm_models/centerfire/model_8.asp) in 1911.

So self loaders were on the civilian market long before the US Army adopted them in 1918.

I'll break the gun over your head That's pretty nutball, you know.:rolleyes:

L_Killkenny
December 13, 2008, 08:17 PM
"That's pretty nutball, you know."

Agreed, but appropriate if done to someone who shows up at a hunting camp with 30 round mag!!!! :p

LK

DonR101395
December 13, 2008, 09:08 PM
Ak's are a different matter. Show up with one of those and you'll be deemed an idiot and told to go away.


Wow, when did Zumbo start posting on TFL?


BTW: An AK with an ultimak, aimpoint and 5 round magazine makes a pretty handy hog gun.;)

22-rimfire
December 13, 2008, 09:34 PM
If it's legal, you're free to choose what you want to hunt with.

stevelyn
December 14, 2008, 12:09 AM
Come on........

Is it really that important what someone hunts with? No wonder there's a Fudd/2A divide. :mad:

Agreed, but appropriate if done to someone who shows up at a hunting camp with 30 round mag!!!!

I've never went chasing after wolves with less than a 20 and there are a large majority of Alaska natives that would disagree with you.

wogpotter
December 14, 2008, 07:18 PM
We usually pick on AK's an AR15's too.
But only because we like .308's:cool:

Seriously. It's not what equipment you have, but how well & responsibly you use it. We've had M1a, FAL, H&K 91, ar-15, AK 47, AK-M, Dragunoffs, AR 15, & Lee Enfields & Mausers & many others in camp. We've never had an issue either internally, or externally.

The most dangerous part of any firearm is the big nut behind the trigger.

If you physically threatning me, based on my choice of hardare, rather than my ethics, handling, & safety, then you need to take a long cool look in the mirror to see who exactly is dangerous.

Bitmap
December 14, 2008, 10:09 PM
Ak's are a different matter. Show up with one of those and you'll be deemed an idiot and told to go away.

appropriate if done to someone who shows up at a hunting camp with 30 round mag!!!!

L_Killkenny, I'm not sure what your problem is, but just for you I think I'm going to fill another one of my tags with an AK and a 30 round mag. I'll be sure to load all 30 rounds, too.


BTW: An AK with an ultimak, aimpoint and 5 round magazine makes a pretty handy hog gun.

Don't you mean 30 round mag? Maybe 75 round drum? What if 6 hogs show up?

MeekAndMild
December 14, 2008, 10:29 PM
...appropriate if done to someone who shows up... So how is advocating physical violence appropriate? One reads that sort of thing all the time in antigun postings but seldom on TFL.

shortwave
December 14, 2008, 11:26 PM
If its legal and and has a safe operator,use it.

Daryl
December 15, 2008, 06:39 AM
If its legal and and has a safe operator,use it.

If they aren't acting legally, and/or aren't a safe operator, then they aren't welcome in my camp no matter what firearm is used.

;)

Daryl

wogpotter
December 15, 2008, 10:19 AM
If they aren't acting legally, and/or aren't a safe operator, then they aren't welcome in my camp no matter what firearm is used.



Daryl
And, sadly, that's the other side of the story.

We do our annual camp on an invitation basis. There are usually a lot of people who say "I'm coming" all year & then don't show up. We usually get at least one who just arrives out of the blue who hasn't said a word all year.

We had one a few years ago. He insisted in changing his clothing to match whatever rifle he produced that day.
M1a= tiger stripe camo.

AR-15= OD fatigues & so on.

We started being very carefull round him.

Then out came a 460 Weatherby magnum bolt gun & a safari suit.

He was absolutely dangerous with all of them. We talked to him privately, without any improvment at all, so we asked him to leave, politely.

It was not the rifle that caused us to do this but the person using it. It made no difference wether he had a "hunting rifle" or an "assault Weapon".

Art Eatman
December 15, 2008, 10:52 AM
texfar, how should I "lighten up"? I merely commented about two particular cartridges with respect to a particular purpose and situation. Again, I don't think the platform is particularly important or has negative connotations. A guy with an AR-10 oughta do okay in any deer hunt, for instance.

armedtotheteeth
December 15, 2008, 01:44 PM
Ars work great. Every deer i got this year was with a Ar. yesterdays was with a Ar10. The other 3 where with a Ar15. I used to be strickly Bolt action hunter. That was before 40 hogs where running directly at me when I had a 5 round bolt gun, and nowhere to go. Hogs have gotten bad around here. You usually either see none, or 10. My Ar15 is a handy dandy little pig gun, and accurate to 300 yards, offhand. Im hoping all these R25s and Varmint Ar15s, such as the predator, and the like will steer people and thoughts of them being the "assault weapons" that they have been come to be known as. I could give a crap less about a bayonet lug, and could live without the Muzzlebrake on a Ar15. I Require the use of my 20 round mags, and will continue to do so. I have alot of 30 rounders, but they are not conduscive to prone shooting and get in the way. If I use 30 rounders, usually they are loaded to 20 just for weight. Spending more money for a 10 or 5 round magazine is stupid, and refuse to do so. We can hunt with whatever we want to here, as long as it is not Rimfire, or Fullauto. The Game warden knows me by name around here and doesnt even jack with me anymore . "Oh, crap@ Its the guy with the Pile of guns in the back of his truck again!" He knows I kill my fair share of hogs, he told me to kill the Mountain Lion if I see it. Kinda odd coming from a game warden.

FrontSight
December 15, 2008, 11:20 PM
I once shot a 1/4 inch group at 100 yds with an AR-10 .308 from a bench (fmj, not hunting rounds). If it can do the same or close with a hunting round then why not?

If it's legal in an area, then we need to support each other & not fight amongst ourselves.

Same goes for crossbow; if it's legal, then we need to stick together, or we will self destruct!

powerboatr
December 15, 2008, 11:27 PM
simply put IMO they were designed for killing people.
there are much better firearms for hunting deer and like.


hunting game like that should be done at close range anyway, it gives em a fighting chance :D

1/2 -3/4 mile is not hunting....its sniping ;)

armedtotheteeth
December 15, 2008, 11:27 PM
I hope more people start using them. It pees off the Antis, makes the guns more popular, and gives them a " sporting pupose"
Also in a pinch they could be used in self defense if stuff got bad at home.

wogpotter
December 16, 2008, 09:11 AM
If it's legal in an area, then we need to support each other & not fight amongst ourselves.


simply put IMO they were designed for killing people.
there are much better firearms for hunting deer and like.


hunting game like that should be done at close range anyway, it gives em a fighting chance

1/2 -3/4 mile is not hunting....its sniping

And these two statements point out in a nutshell why the anti-gun crowd are winning.

You can cleanly, ethically, hunt with a Battle rifle. There is no [I]obligation[I] to use any rifle at "long range, for sniping". This is a mis-conception that is being used by the anti's to drive even more wedges between differing types of gun owners for them. AND IT'S WORKING.

We'll all either sink alone, or swim together.

buzz_knox
December 16, 2008, 09:18 AM
"That's pretty nutball, you know."

Agreed, but appropriate if done to someone who shows up at a hunting camp with 30 round mag!!!!

LK

Hopefully someone with another weapon will use the appropriate force to stop your homicidal attack. Or, do you not understand that it is nutball to state that you will attempt to murder someone through the use of a deadly weapon, namely the bludgeon which you are using the rifle as?

It's ironic that someone will protest an "assault weapon" via an assault.

MaxHeadSpace
December 16, 2008, 09:31 AM
The current REMINGTON AR config, manufactured by Bushmaster, is "real tree" cammo, "optic ready" flat top w/o sights and sold with a "hunting legal" 5 rd. mag -- although it readily accepts any AR mag.

It's marketed as a "varmint rifle."

davlandrum
December 16, 2008, 11:24 AM
+1 to everyone who said it is more about the person than the rifle.

Someone who shows up and 1) doesn't know how thier rifle works, 2) doesn't know how to safely handle a gun, 3) doesn't know the difference between OK and NOT OK, and 4) has not read the regs is not welcome. I don't care if he is carrying his grandpa's 30-30 or an AR.

The only thing I would have a personal problem with is if it was chambered in .223 (legal in Oregon for deer). I don't write the regs, but I am entitled to my opinion.

Kreyzhorse
December 16, 2008, 11:51 AM
First off, I'm not a fan of "black" rifles. But, just because I'm not a fan of them doesn't mean that they aren't capable hunting rifles. I would certainly welcome any one hunting with them and the truth be told, more people should hunt with them.

The stereotype of the "black assault rifle" needs to be knocked down and the more people own and use them for target shooting and hunting, the easier it is to break down those stereotypes. In my world, a rifle is a rifle. There are no "assault" rifles or "long range sniper style" rifles, just rifles.

shortwave
December 16, 2008, 09:38 PM
+1 Krazyhorse. I shot my brother with a sling-shot when we were little. Slingshot wasn`t black but the belt my mom used on me was. Still yet today I consider a black belt an assault weapon:D

armedtotheteeth
December 16, 2008, 10:01 PM
I know lots of people are fond of bolt rifles. I used to be. I could not honestly agree with powerbtrs opinion of "simply put IMO they were designed for killing people.
there are much better firearms for hunting deer and like.


hunting game like that should be done at close range anyway, it gives em a fighting chance

1/2 -3/4 mile is not hunting....its sniping "

well I limit my shots to deer to about 200 yards with the Ar15 simply because of energy. The AR10 (338 Federal) can go a bit further once i figure out how it shoots. ( After the stinking city hunters get off the lease!)
Ill take a shot at a hog out to 400 yards. I dont care, Die hogs!!

Id put my 20 inch non floated Ar15 up against any bolt action rifle at 100 yards for accuracy. Bring it on! I dont have to even move my eye from the scope to shoot again. Hell i could even have 2 in the air at the same time if I wanted too. That may be a stretch.. hmm 3100 FPS, 300 feet.... .1 second, yeah do able.
You would be hard pressed to find a better deer rifle than our little Ar10T. It may offend some wieners, I dont care atall. You can keep your bolt gun. Ill take something in semi auto myself. Would you rather drive a 77 model Pinto.. Or a New Ferrari??

ZeroJunk
December 16, 2008, 10:16 PM
I really don't see much need for hunting with a semi-auto unless you want to kill more than one deer at the same time.

DonR101395
December 16, 2008, 10:18 PM
I really don't see much need for hunting with a semi-auto unless you want to kill more than one deer at the same time.


Playing devil's advocate:
I don't see much need for hunting when the grocery store is fully stocked with meat;)

armedtotheteeth
December 16, 2008, 10:18 PM
Thats what I thought until I had 40 hogs running in my direction with a 5 round bolt gun.
And there is the .01 percent chance that i might miss.. if the sun was in my eye , and the wind suddenly gusted to 30 MPH. A quick follow up shot would be nice. I would never go flinging brass on deer. Hogs? Now thats a differnt story.

MeekAndMild
December 16, 2008, 11:40 PM
simply put IMO they were designed for killing people.
there are much better firearms for hunting deer and like.
hunting game like that should be done at close range anyway, it gives em a fighting chance
1/2 -3/4 mile is not hunting....its sniping

I save my close range weapons (knives) for chasing down an killing tomatoes, cabbages and turnips. I like to smell their bodily fluids and listen to their screams as I tear off their leaves one by one. Sometimes okra will gore me when it's fighting for its life. :rolleyes:

BTW, did you bother to read the links I posted concerning the origins of the semiautomatic rifle. It was designed for civilian use and the machine gun was designed for warfare.

ZeroJunk
December 17, 2008, 07:33 AM
I don't see much need for hunting when the grocery store is fully stocked with meat
__________________


LOL. I still hunt, but I just don't shoot anything. I've killed all the deer I will this year unless some needy family asks for one.Somebody needs to shoot them as there are simply too many in this area. I'm taking a kid with me and really hoping he can get a good deer, but he hasn't had any luck. I am seeing a lot of deer, one great buck in particular. But, all I am taking now is a pistol which I can't hit anything with anyway.:)

L_Killkenny
December 17, 2008, 11:18 AM
Like I said, I find no place for tacti-cool crap and high cap magazines in the woods. Someone did bring up hog hunting and it "may" be the exception but only in very rare circumstances. Just about any semi-auto can be a serviceable hunting weapon and the format can be as good as the others.

To me the gun you chose to hunt with or own speaks volumes about a person. It's along the same lines as a persons preference of dogs. Example: Take someone who's favorite breed of dog is a pitbull. Around here, I've never met anyone who's favorite dog is a pitbull (other than hog hunters) that I would hang with. Just me, the people who like the breed just aren't my cup of tea. As a matter of fact, IMO the breeds reputation is damaged more by the owners of the dogs than by the breed itself.

Take that for what it's worth but I'd not hunt with someone who showed up with an AR, AK, etc. that was not set up in a hunting configuration (proper optics/sights for the job, low cap mags, no tacti-cool stocks or add-ons, no bayonets or lugs, etc). Just not my cup of tea and I think it speaks volumes about what the person is like. Should they outlaw such weapons? Hell No!!! Do I think you should go to field with such weapons? Hell no!!

BTW, you don't see me hanging around guys shooting $2000 rifles or $10,000 trap guns either. Not my cup of tea either. (and I generally think it's a waste of $$)

There is such thing as a proper tool for the job. When you go to the field, make sure you bring it. It doesn't matter if it's a single shot, bolt, lever gun, semi, etc.
LK

armedtotheteeth
December 17, 2008, 07:27 PM
Hmm, A Ar is going for about 2000 bucks now. Saw a bunch of used Colt M4s in Pawn shop for 2000.

ZeroJunk
December 17, 2008, 07:43 PM
To me the gun you chose to hunt with or own speaks volumes about a person


Yep. It's likely that I wouldn't want to hunt with the AK AR bunch any more than they would like to hunt with me.

armedtotheteeth
December 18, 2008, 10:52 PM
Whats a matter zerojunk?? Scared of getting outshot??? :D

BuckHammer
December 19, 2008, 12:03 AM
This has probably already been said, but there will always be those who resist new trends. In my eyes, there is nothing wrong with using the most effective, cutting edge weapons, even when hunting. The bottom line is that you should use whatever weapon with which you can most effectively hunt, whether it is an HK91 or a muzzle loader. I would even say that this is an obligation. Just make sure to obey any and all laws.

yosemitesamaz
December 19, 2008, 02:46 AM
you guys might hate me for this but i dont think any type of assualt rifle belongs in a hunting camp. i bow hunt alot and maybe its just in my neck of the woods but the all think there rambo at camp. trying to stalk a animal to 30 yards then all of a sudden you get some automatic gun fire over the next ridge is not cool. i know many people that hunt with .223, 7.62x39,308. but they do it in a bolt rifle. sorry im a bit bitter i have had more than a few hunts disrupted.

armedtotheteeth
December 19, 2008, 06:58 AM
Oh.. But wait Yosemite.. You cant hunt anywhere with an "assault Rifle". You can only use the semi automatic neutered versions like i have.

Old pharts will came around to the idea.
we dont still drive around in Model Ts for every day use.
We do so for Nostalgia. In 20 years, After Obama is long out of our hair and the Gun banners have all been uhm, well , you know, "put out to pasture" :D, These guns will be popular. You cant say nobody wants them, cuz 87 % of folks here say ok, and you cant find any in the stores.

ZeroJunk
December 19, 2008, 09:31 AM
Whats a matter zerojunk?? Scared of getting outshot???

I would rather see it than hear tell of it.

Doesn't it seem a little contadictory that the proponents of these rifles for hunting use sub MOA groups to support their choice. If it shoots that well, why do you need rapid fire capability?

Armed, if you want to use them it's your business.

hogdogs
December 19, 2008, 10:10 AM
ZJ, I am a proponent of the bestest and the mostest wins... I have no problem with the platform for deer, it is the limited capacity of the round. Heck, if you put 2 MOA you have about the same grain weight in 'em as a good .30-06:rolleyes: Now an AR in .308 would get the ye' ol' hogdogs nod...
Brent

Art Eatman
December 19, 2008, 10:37 AM
Brent, you look back in this thread and you'll find where I commented favorably about an AR-10.

Consider: There is a lot more difference between a lever action and a bolt action than there is between an AR-type critter and a Browning BAR.

I'd surely raise an eyebrow if Sumdood brought a beautiful bolt-action .223 on a grizzly hunt, just as I would if that same Sumdood brought an AR-10 on a squirrel hunt. Again, it's the cartridge, not the platform, that's seems to me to be more important.

yosemitesamaz
December 19, 2008, 11:10 AM
i have ar's but i never take them to any hunting areas. its just not for me.

ZeroJunk
December 19, 2008, 11:42 AM
Everybody has their likes and dislikes. I've never hunted with anything but a bolt action and I'm too old to learn new tricks. But, if I had a big boar or grizzly on my butt I would probably wish I had and semi-automatic.:)

armedtotheteeth
December 19, 2008, 08:23 PM
OH zerojunk I was just yanking your chain.
What I like about the Ar platform is its accuracy, and its handiness. Its a light little rifle that is very very accurate. I dont use the semi auto funtion pretty much ever when deer hunting. One shot does the job. Its nice to have another one though. On the other hand,,,hog hunting and deer hunting pretty much go hand in hand here. If you are deer hunting, more than likely you will see hogs first. All of the landowners around here want you to shoot every hog you see. Usually you will find 1 boar or 10 sows with piglets. I have been told in the past " you can hunt whatever you want on my land, but , if you see hogs, youd better be pulling the trigger!"

I Have a Ar10 in 338 Federal. It just aint as handy as the Ar15 IMO. This one has a 24 inch heavy barrel, versus the ar15s 20 inch. The 223 shots alot flatter from what I have seen so far. This spring after all the city hunters have left the area, It ll get a workout.

Swampghost
December 19, 2008, 09:50 PM
After some soul searching and getting by the 'it just ain't right to hunt with a 'combat rifle' it comes down to this;

Somebody that hunts with this type of rifle is probably young, probably not very experienced, probably tempted to take bad follow up shots because they can and they are excited.

Some of the camps that I hunt have ground blinds that are less than 100 yds. apart and you always have to keep in mind where they are. An excited hunter could forget that there are others around. My 742 was frowned upon my first time in one of these camps, good thing that I'd brought a bolt and lever as backups.

armedtotheteeth
December 19, 2008, 09:54 PM
ouch!! I thin your tallkin about me!! Hmm, My 60 ish year old dad just bought one. he loves it! Hell of a rifle. Way more accurate than his Rem 700. Easier to handle too.

Swampghost
December 19, 2008, 10:38 PM
I'm close to your fathers age and my son has all of the toys including night vision3, he's also a SEAL. I can shoot all of his toys better than he can. We have another showdown coming up this week at the range. I'll post the results win or lose.

As to the 700 Rem. I'd like to see the AR that can hit a dime @ 200 yds.

DonR101395
December 19, 2008, 10:59 PM
As to the 700 Rem. I'd like to see the AR that can hit a dime @ 200 yds.


Have you seen many 1/4 MOA Remington 700 off the shelf rifles?:rolleyes:

T. O'Heir
December 20, 2008, 01:12 AM
"...It's only properly called an "assault rifle" when it is full auto..." And not then either. An "assault rifle" is a select fire rifle chambered in the same calibre as the PBI rifle but with a smaller case. An AR-15 is not an "assault rifle". It's a commercial hunting rifle. Just like the M1A. An M16 isn't an "assault rifle" either. It's a battle rifle. The AK-47 and STG44 are the only assault rifles that have ever been made.
In any case, if the hunter can hit what he's shooting at and make a clean kill, the rifle he uses doesn't matter. Mind you, if a guy showed up with a .223, he'd have to show me his ammo. If he has factory ammo, he'd be told to re-think his choice of ammo. Most factory .223 ammo is loaded with varmint bullets. Varmint bullets are not suitable for deer sized game.

Art Eatman
December 20, 2008, 09:29 AM
Go back and read the opening post. Then read through the thread, particularly the negative views.

How are they much different in attitude from what we hear from the Pelosi/Kennedy/Schumer crowd?

Sarge
December 20, 2008, 09:56 AM
It's the property owner or lessee's call. I can see it both ways. If I had nosy/idiot adjoining neighbors who'd "Call the damn game warden!!" over anything with a protruding magazine, I'd probably just forgo the EBR for something more traditional- what I'd normally use, regardless. No point inviting an interruption to your hunt.

In the off-season however I would make sure to shoot my EBR, in a safe manner and into a safe backstop, in full view of those same same neighbors. If they called the coppers on me then, I'd have plenty of time to visit with the constabulary- and talk them into firing at least one mag themselves, before they went 10-8. ;)

ZeroJunk
December 20, 2008, 11:14 AM
How are they much different in attitude from what we hear from the Pelosi/Kennedy/Schumer crowd?

I haven't gotten the feeling from reading this thread that anybody cares if you have a housefull of these whatever you decide to call them rifles. They are fun. Thousands of people shoot all the time and never hunt anything. And, for personal protection I would a hell of a lot rather have one that a bolt action. But, if you want to deer or elk hunt I think a bolt action will be more reliable in harsh conditions, have adequate folllow up capability, and allow you to use cartridges that are not commercially available in semi-automatics. I can pull a boat with a corvette, but it's not best suited for it.

I wouldn't mind hunting around the house with a BAR or Benelli, but I'm not going to take one to the wilderness and I've never seen anybody else do it either. That's what I took from the OP's "camp". I probably got this attitude from the 742 Remington that almost everybody had years ago. It was a stretch to call them a semi-automatic since so many of them might cycle and they might not. I don't care much for any semi-auto for a hunt where there may be a once in a lifetime opportunity regardless of what color it is.

mavracer
December 20, 2008, 01:22 PM
As to the 700 Rem. I'd like to see the AR that can hit a dime @ 200 yds.
Yes, I want to see the 700 that can too.

L_Killkenny
December 20, 2008, 03:37 PM
Art, I'll tell you how I'm different from them: I stated that I believe you should be able to own them. I didn't say they should be taken away, not sold or even illegal to hunt with. I also stated that it wasn't the platform that's the problem. As a matter of fact, I voted "go ahead" and then qualified my answer. The AR "can" be a great hunting platform. Accurate, fast follow up shots, short and easy to handle. If I had to chose 1 coyote gun and money wasn't an object a .243 Ar type rifle would be at the top of the list. 22-250 would be even better. I have no problem with "sporterized" military type rifles being used. I do have an issue with "tactilized" military type rifles being used.

It has less to do with the weapon than it does with the mindset of the shooter.

LK

Yithian
December 20, 2008, 03:54 PM
L_Killkenny...
If you know the shooter already, what difference does mindset mean?
Or to put it more bluntly....
Why would you invite, or lease, to someone if you don't know, or don't trust, their mindset already?

The rifle has nothing to do with it.
So what if the rifle has a light or laser on it.
Are you saying that someone you invite, should remove all "Home Defence" related items from their rifle, just to hunt with it around you?

You either expect too much, or are anti and trying to wriggle an excuse by us.

L_Killkenny
December 20, 2008, 04:15 PM
Yithian, all my friends/acquaintances/hunting buddies are smart enough to realize that the 12 ga they use for deer season is all they "might" ever need for HD (and more). None of the people I hunt with would even think of taking a tacti-cool rifle hunting (let alone owning one). Save the gadgets for the kids. IMO, if someone chooses to use and set up a rifle for HD it will not be properly set up for hunting the game we have around here. I'd think they were nuts for even trying. It's like playing baseball using a tennis ball. They're both balls right? Use the right tool for the job. Just because it sends a chunk of lead down range does not make it the right tool.

LK

Yithian
December 20, 2008, 09:15 PM
Just because you can't, or wont, play my game does not make me a bad person.
To assume, such as you seem to do, shows a lack of forethought/intelligence.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/OldnMoldy/4pigsfromMafia2.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/OldnMoldy/Kindness-Sow.jpg

armedtotheteeth
December 20, 2008, 10:37 PM
I remember that big ole stinky Boar..Couldnt even get him in my truck, had to drag his big ole but down the road. And all of his little ones sure where tasty!
Every time i remember that 30 seconds of shooting, I hear "Dueling Banjos" in my head. AR AR AR AR...AK AK AK AK,ARAKARAKARAKAR :D. Now that was fun.
Uhm as far as hitting a dime at 200 yards with my Ar. Probably cant, havent tried, but I can probably keep them in a 3/4 circle. At 100 yards you can cover a slow 5 round group with a dime. Oh, I dont have a very accurate one, doesnt have the Floated upper or anything. Just the Military Chrome barrel, withthe crappy plastic hanguard,, ( or "shroud" as Feinstein calls it.) Now, some of them new varminters or Predators, they are some accurate critters.

jamiejaf
December 21, 2008, 05:13 PM
You guys down there are lucky to be able to hunt with AR's. Mind you a 5.56 rd is too light in the energy department to drop some of the game around here... and not legal as well. An AR10 (.308) would be a better choice. We can only take them to ranges with permits. I hunt with my M1A all the time.(its nice to have a semi with a mag full in tight bush with big bears around) We have a lot of AR variants that we can hunt with, like an Robinson XCR, which makes our laws seem retarded... But what guns laws are not?

armedtotheteeth
December 21, 2008, 07:22 PM
jaimejaf, Granted the 223 is a light round, but , with the proper bullets, and shot placement, that 223 will take down rather large hogs. I myself have killed one or 2 hogs exceeding 400 pounds. The hog being drug by the pickup in the pic above, was stopped by Yithians 308, but , I put it down permanently with a 223 Vmax to the forehead from about 50 yards. That was a fun day, very very fun.
I cant see how the people in your government live with themselves for taking your rights away. It slike you where their kids or something, Unacceptable

Deet
December 24, 2008, 07:57 PM
It's legal, It's a rifle, what's the problem. I'd be happy to hunt with all you AR guys. If you can loan me an extra rifle I'd be happy to give it a try. I only own a Mosin-Nagant 91/30.

armedtotheteeth
December 24, 2008, 10:40 PM
Anytime you are headed this way, well, at least not during deer season, Id take you out on a hunt, no problem. AS FOR BORROWING A AR...THATS A DIFFERENT STORY, iM SURE I can find a couple laying around, perhaps,a M1 garand, M1 carbine, Ak, something a little bit more repeatable.:D

Deet
December 25, 2008, 06:03 AM
Thanks for the invite, if you every find yourself in Indiana in December I'll be happy to loan you a ML and we can harvest a few deer.