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View Full Version : Hunting ethics demonstrated........proud of her!


bswiv
December 9, 2008, 09:00 PM
Last evening we, Louann (the wife) and myself spent the last couple of hours slipping into the wind along the edge of the swamp looking for hogs. We split up and I went deeper into the swamp and she continued along the edge.

When it got dark we both ended up back on the road a good ways from the truck; Louann a good half mile and me a little closer. Once back in the truck we compared notes on what we saw. I'd only managed to spook a ugly old dear.

Louann on the other hand had a interesting walk. About a hour after we split up she heard hogs in the palmettos. As they were moving along feeding across the wind, she spent about 20 minutes getting ahead of them so that they would end up up-wind from her.

When she finally sees black in the palmettos they are not 15 yards away. She leaned up against a tree for a steady shot and waited until one steped into a gap in the palmettos at about 10 yards. Cocked the hammer on the .243 and settled the Red Dot on the hogs neck.

Just as she's squeezing the trigger she sees a "blurr" go past the feet of the hog. She imediately realized that the "blurr" is a VERY small hog, cat sized at best. Upon seeing the small one she takes a better look at the big hog, which is still in the opening. Sure enough it's a sow with sagging tits, still nursing.

Sense it's a sow with a number of little ones she decides it better for the future of our hog hunting to let her be. So she lowers the hammer on the rifle and waits for them to move off.

What happens next is one of those rewards that we sometimes get when we do the right thing. That mama hog procedes to flop over right there in that spot. And when she does 5 or 6 little guys come scurrying out of the palmettos and start to nurse.

Now I'll tell you, listening to her tell about it you could tell that watching them, after having slipped up that close, was as satisfying as if she had shot one.

Kind of makes the point that hunting and killing are not the same thing.

FrontSight
December 9, 2008, 09:21 PM
nice story, but what's with the advertisements in your post? :confused:

bswiv
December 9, 2008, 09:24 PM
Advertisements???

HeroHog
December 9, 2008, 09:31 PM
I don't see any ads...

MeNoLikeTofu
December 9, 2008, 09:42 PM
Tell you wife I say, "Good for her!"

JonnyReb
December 9, 2008, 09:57 PM
Good hunting ethics and morals should be the standard we are brought up with and live by but sad that some have none. Good story and good decision!!J.R.

globemaster3
December 9, 2008, 10:18 PM
Just another example of why its not always about shooting something. Seems some of my fondest memories were of time when I did not pull a trigger. Good on her.

fisherman66
December 9, 2008, 10:28 PM
Hogs are non-native and destructive. Call me unethical, but I have no problem shootin' mamma (and the pigletts). The private land I hunt is full of wallows and rooting areas. They are a scurge (albeit tasty scurge). I have specific instructions from my FIL who owns the land to shoot all hogs and feral cats on sight. I am welcome to take the carcass or to even let it lie. Feral hogs have no natural predators.

FrontSight
December 10, 2008, 06:07 PM
That's the weirdest thing, must have been some adware on my end! Some of the words were in green & underlined & when I scrolled over them pop-ups would occur...on random words like "compared" would have an ad for comparison shopping.

Damn I hate adware!! It's still happenning - check out my attached pic.

hogdogs
December 10, 2008, 06:53 PM
One thing to keep in mind is if another sow is nursing, the piglets will often be raised orphan style...
while I frown on my dogs nailing a piggy (usually won't survive), if I can get to it and get it from them, I sure will carry it by a hind leg knowing if it is squealing I am about to get either momma or another member of the clan when it comes to try a rescue! Any nuisance pig I take out of the woods the happier the landowner will be...
Brent

hogdogs
December 10, 2008, 06:55 PM
Scrap, when you figure out what cootie yer puter has, let us know....
Brent

Double Naught Spy
December 10, 2008, 07:08 PM
http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/feral/feral-14.htm

I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about when it comes to preserving hog hunting in Florida. Florida's hog population is 2nd only to that of Texas and is NOT on the decline. In fact, you might have been doing Twelve Mile Swamp WMA a favor by killing off the hogs.

bswiv
December 10, 2008, 08:28 PM
Hog population in the swamp is not anywhere near the point that they constitute a nusense. Fact is they are, at least in the opinion of at least a few folks I know, a valuable asset in the woods.

And certianly a asset when we get one on the cooker.........

Maybe that the country club homeowner sees them as a problem when they show up in their yard, but they feel the same when the deer nibble the shrubs.

Having a stable population of hogs in the swamp sounds like a good longtern proposition to me....................same as with the deer.

Is that a bad thing to work on???

armedtotheteeth
December 10, 2008, 08:37 PM
well, a hog can have 12 piglets at a time. And those piglets in 6 months can get pregnant and have another 12 piglets. so , in 1 year , you can have no hogs, the next year, you could have 144 hogs, and on and on. We have been killing hogs as hard as we can go here in Tx. We cant keep up. the USDA comes inwith airplanes and shotguns and cant keep them under wraps. They are explosive reproductors.

fisherman66
December 11, 2008, 12:17 AM
Maybe that the country club homeowner sees them as a problem when they show up in their yard, but they feel the same when the deer nibble the shrubs.

Having a stable population of hogs in the swamp sounds like a good longtern proposition to me....................same as with the deer.

Pigs don't golf, they root up pasture, silt up tanks and run the deer out of town. Pigs are not game nor native species, they do not enjoy that rank. The only good pig is a cooked pig.

Don't worry about a "stable population". They are here to stay, like fire ants.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 12:26 AM
bswiv, The state of florida would really like to see them all removed from the wma's. They serve no positive usefulness for the sake of the woods. While they are a tasty critter, they are as much a destructive nuisance in the woods as they are in the golf course and subdivision. They compete with native fauna such as but not limited to deer, black bears, and rabbits. Treat them however you choose. I am not judging you or your lady's decision on how to use your time in the woods:)
Brent

hoghunting
December 11, 2008, 12:41 AM
I'm also in Texas and we do have a hog problem. When I hunt one evening, then head out again the next morning to find over 150 acres of pasture land destroyed by hogs on an overnight visit, I don't plan on leaving the sow or piglets surviving. It's not ethics, it's economy as devastation of pasture land means an increase in supplemental feed for cattle.

458winshooter
December 11, 2008, 04:19 AM
+1 to you and your better half for showing some ethics on your day in the woods together.That's why it is called hunting and not killing or shooting.Here in Tennessee hogs have become a problem and the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency has stated on page 29 of this years hunting and trapping guide to kill as many as possible.They feel that if unchecked they will do harm to deer populations and habitat in the future.I am not proposing that they be driven into extinction,nor am I saying that ya'll were wrong.I think it wise to keep some around for the future because they are fun to hunt.But in this are it might be frowned upon.Enjoy your next hunt and keep being considerate of what you do out there,even if some don't agree with it.

fisherman66
December 11, 2008, 10:09 AM
Enjoy your next hunt and keep being considerate of what you do out there,even if some don't agree with it.

I'm not so sure anyone disagrees with the actions chosen in this situation. I disagree with the word "ethics". This is about hunting "morals", not ethics; if that distinction makes sense.

DWARREN123
December 11, 2008, 11:49 AM
In hunting as in life you do what you are comfortable with and feel right about. No one can set your standards.

Brian Pfleuger
December 11, 2008, 12:17 PM
Hogs in the south are like woodchucks in the north. Kill them all, they're nothing but trouble. Only hogs are worse, they're not even native, at least the 'chucks are supposed to be here.

sureshots
December 11, 2008, 12:20 PM
I agree, Ethics is not A word to use in hunting. What is ethical about killing or not killing A animal. Its more about Lawful, moral and HUMANE hunting practices. Some declare you unetichal if you use A certain caliber to hunt with. others declare you unethical if you make A bad shot or choice of bullets. Come on we're not Doctors Lawyers or Priest. We are outdoorsman, Hunters, Nature Lovers and Such.

Brian Pfleuger
December 11, 2008, 12:26 PM
I disagree with the word "ethics". This is about hunting "morals", not ethics; if that distinction makes sense.

I agree, Ethics is not A word to use in hunting. What is ethical about killing or not killing A animal. Its more about Lawful, moral...

I posted this in another thread for the same reason... you guys confuse me.:confused:;):D


From Merriam-Webster.com:

Ethics:
a: a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values


Morals:
a: moral practices or teachings : modes of conduct b: ethics


Same:
1 a: resembling in every relevant respect b: conforming in every respect —used with as
2 a: being one without addition, change, or discontinuance : identical b: being the one under discussion or already referred to
3: corresponding so closely as to be indistinguishable

fisherman66
December 11, 2008, 12:35 PM
Morals define personal character, while ethics stress a social system in which those morals are applied. In other words, ethics examines a very broad "for the benefit of the society" brushstroke. Morals are a more personal.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 12:40 PM
But integrity is what you do when no one is lookin':rolleyes: Here is my redneck way of looking at it...
In Greenwich Village it is considered un-ethical to hunt the very same critters that I morally hunt in the woods during legal seasons in the woods...
Brent

Double Naught Spy
December 11, 2008, 04:22 PM
Having a stable population of hogs in the swamp sounds like a good longtern proposition to me

With more than a half million hogs in Florida, the population is somewhat stable in terms of numbers, but not stable in terms of geography. They will move into new habitats as needed or as old habitats are destroyed (often by their own activities).

Hog population in the swamp is not anywhere near the point that they constitute a nusense. Fact is they are, at least in the opinion of at least a few folks I know, a valuable asset in the woods.

Funny how you would think that hogs are a good thing because you want to hunt them, but then again, you are a user and not an owner of the land. There is a reason where there is a no size limit and no bag limit on hogs at Twelve Mile Swamp. Having a population of hogs in the swamp is like having a little cancer. The doctors that profit from the treatment of it are okay with it, but it doesn't do the body any good at all.

I don't know any biologists or ecologists who feel or who can justify feral hogs as a valuable asset to the woods.

From http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/UW220
Problems
The opportunistic and omnivorous tendencies of wild hogs lead to many conflicts with people and wildlife. With hard mast as their preferred food, hogs directly compete with many popular game animals, including deer, turkeys, and squirrels. This competition is considered to be a significant limiting factor for populations of these native species in some areas. In addition, hogs may consume the nests and young of many reptiles (including sea turtles; Figure 11), ground-nesting birds, and mammals (including deer fawns). Wild hogs have also been known to consume young domestic livestock including poultry, lambs, and goats.

Figure 11. Hogs often prey upon the nests of ground nesting wildlife, including sea turtles.
When natural foods are scarce or inaccessible, hogs will readily forage on almost any agricultural crop and feed set out for livestock and wildlife, leading to significant losses. Wild hogs will also feed on tree seeds and seedlings, causing significant damage in forests, orchards, and plantations. In Florida and the Southeast, this may be a serious problem in regenerating important long-leaf pine forests.

In addition to the effects of consuming, knocking down, rubbing, and trampling large amounts of native vegetation and crops, the rooting behavior of hogs also causes significant damage. Rooting destabilizes the soil surface, which can lead to erosion and exotic plant establishment; uproots or weakens native vegetation; and damages lawns, dikes, roads, trails, and recreation areas (Figure 12). They have also been known to damage fences and other structures. Wallowing behavior also destroys small ponds and stream banks, and can lead to declines in water quality.

Figure 12. Rooting by wild hogs in search of buried foods can lead to erosion and water quality problems, as well as the destruction of native vegetation around ponds and in the forest.
Another area of concern is the potential for wild hogs to serve as reservoirs for many diseases and parasites that may affect native wildlife, livestock, and people. Hogs have been known to carry dozens of such pathogens, including cholera, psuedorabies, brucellosis, tuberculosis, salmonellosis, anthrax, ticks, fleas, lice, and various flukes and worms. Although not considered a serious threat to people, millions of dollars are spent each year to keep livestock safe from such problems.

Finally, hogs can be dangerous. Although wild hogs prefer to run and escape danger, if injured, cornered, or with young they can become aggressive, move with great speed, and cause serious injury (mainly with their tusks; Figure 13).

Yep, sounds like a valuable asset to me. :rolleyes:

bswiv
December 11, 2008, 04:54 PM
How we got here from there I'm not sure.................

Do know this much, wild hogs have been a part of the Florida ecosystem for at least 400 years if not longer. And to the Eurasian continent they are native to it for how long?

Is it the hogs, or the NUMBER of hogs that is the problem? Seems to me I remember reading that a number of years back the state of Pa. extended the deer season at the behest of the insurance industry due to the number of accidents involving deer.

And I know full well that in many instances farmers can get special permits to harvest deer due to the "damage" they cause. And I know from having seen the Wakula Unit of the St. Marks WMA back about 30 years ago, there was a visable brouse line in the woods indicating just how far up the deer could reach!, that when deer populations get our of wack in a forrest setting they can cause problems there too.

So do we toss the deer into the same boat as the hog once the numbers go up?

And this question too. Should we not weigh the economic benifit of a wild hog population into the equasion? Same as with deer, folks spend $ hunting them so is there no a up side?

Finally I do know that a lot of "deer" hunters have a certian disdain for a wild hog. They see him as something of a lesser creature and those of us who would rather slip a swamp after a hog and then eat the meat from said hog, well it seems that we just aren't quite right in the head.

I don't see it in that way.

Seems to me that unless the hog population has gotten to the same point as the afore mentioned deer population over in St. Marks had all those years ago, there is no good reason not to enjoy the fact that they provide another hunting opportunity.

And once again, in the Twelve Mile Swamp RUA the hog population is not nearly so large as to constitute in any way a danger to the enviroment.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 05:14 PM
It is the introduction of a non native animal that is superior in life skills over the native species that is the problem...
But feel free to utilize the woods how you see fit.
If african lions were introduced and could flourish at the expense of native species would that be acceptable? That is how I have put it to a neighbor of a hog eradication client more than once when they say "But the hogs aren't doing much damage over all..."
Brent

bswiv
December 11, 2008, 05:57 PM
That is a thought provoking take on it...........

You'll forgive us I hope if we continue to enjoy hunting them, and eating them, and even moreso if we hope for at least a fair population to continue to prosper in the woods we wander. I don't think we'll be in bad, or small, company in that sentament.

At the same time I do understand the necessity for controls, and in certian instances extream measures, on their populations in agricultrial areas and in urban settings.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 06:32 PM
bswiv, Have no worries on my part! What would I do with this yard full of dogs if all the feral hogs were gone...;) Like I said... the woods and their use by you and yours is up to you how you use them... good bad right or wrong...
Brent

Nnobby45
December 11, 2008, 07:09 PM
Nice story BSWIV, sometimes it's about how we personally feel about things rather than what we might be justified in doing.

When my neice was 13, she drew a cow elk tag in E. Nevada (depredation tag). After three or four days her dad finally got her into position when a nice cow came by. Katie drew her bow, tracked it, but never released the arrow.

Her dad asked her why she hadn't shot and she said, "it had a calf, dad". Her dad pointed out that it was a yearling old enough to fend for itself, but she'd made her decision. Nothing more was said.:cool:

sureshots
December 11, 2008, 07:12 PM
Earlier this season my Brother shot A ten point Buck. The Buck was in the process of mating A large Doe. He also shot the Doe. Do you consider this Ethical, Unethical or just plain good Luck?

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 07:15 PM
SS, I call that a DOUBLE!!!:D
Brent

sureshots
December 11, 2008, 08:03 PM
I think we see "Eye to EYE"

fisherman66
December 11, 2008, 10:31 PM
I'd call it "exactly how I'd like to go".:)

But at least let me finish.

Double Naught Spy
December 11, 2008, 10:37 PM
You'll forgive us I hope if we continue to enjoy hunting them,

See, therein was the problem. Louann didn't shoot one when she had the chance.

Enjoy hunting them, but don't pass up shots out of some misguided view that the population needs conservation. They don't. That is why there is no bag limit on them.

hogdogs
December 11, 2008, 10:44 PM
DNS, the hunt and the shot/kill are unrelated... In this case louann hunted as a supreme predator and opted not to take that quarry... much the same as a cougar may follow a human but never pounce...;) But lord If I find out I am bein' hunted by a large cat I am gonna flat crap my pants then decide what next...:eek:for me it is the whole predator/prey issue for all of us... sometimes yer the bug and sometimes you are the windshield...:D some of my most fond hunting memories is opting out of a shot and "spooking" my quarry instead to see the look on their face when they realize they were about to be TOAST...
Brent

Dearhunter61
December 11, 2008, 11:53 PM
I respect your wife's decision not to kill the sow but I do agree with the other posters here. Hogs are pests. There is not a "season" for hunting hogs here is Texas because they are not considered a "Game" animal. They are considered a pest and that is being polite. I would not feel one bit quilty about killing one and leaving it for the yotes or buzzards. They need to eat too!:)

The place I hunt we have been given instructions to kill any and all hogs that we can because they have done great damage to the ranchers pastures which negatively impacts his cattle. And if we do not want them? Leave'em lay.

Double Naught Spy
December 12, 2008, 08:17 AM
hogdogs, I don't know about the notion of being a 'supreme predator' because she opted not to shoot an invasive pest species. I see it more of a "I don't have to kill because I am not hungry" view, just like with mountain lions. In that regard, most predators are supreme.

I think you may have missed the point. It really isn't about Louann. It is about the justification of not taking the shot as being evidence of demonstrated hunting ethics under the guise of hog conservation that is the problem. Its like not killing non-native, invasive formosan termites in your home and calling it ethical as you are engaged in termite conservation. ;)

texfar
December 12, 2008, 08:59 AM
Good story. I have nothing bad to say about other folk's morals. I have my own too.
The lease I have hunted near Del Rio is so loaded with hogs that the farmers/ranchers loose thousands every year to hogs. I run traps as well as hunt. When I have popped a sow, intentionally, with or without piglets (that I can see), I will routinly get some or all the piglets in one of the traps that night or not. Yum, Yum. I have no remorse personally after seeing Dave working his #$S off prepping and planting a field of several hundred acres of alfalfa, then watch it desimated ,down the road,in a few nights by 40-50 hogs while in route destroyed fencing. It is his lively hood and one of the reasons he allowed me to hunt the ranch in the first place. Hogs/yotes priority, everything else next. Above posts are correct!! You can never wipe them out. They be smart too and breed like rabbits.

Good for your Daughter though! She is the one that has to sleep at night with what she has done. Once killed.......its killed.