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View Full Version : Russian Mosin Nagant Model 1891/30 7.62x54R


FyredUp
November 30, 2008, 02:02 AM
Someone tell me about this rifle. Is it a decent shooter? Accurate?

I found one at a great price and wonder if it is worth adding to my collection.

Jimro
November 30, 2008, 02:09 AM
Usually they are fairly accurate, depending on bore and muzzle condition.

Fun rifles, sometimes difficult to work the bolt.

Jimro

Tatsumi67
November 30, 2008, 02:13 AM
I love mine, I might have to get more. I get great accuracy (high quality loads, 50 yards is all ive tested) and its the most simple bolt action you could possible want.

There are only 27 parts in the whole gun, only 9 of which actually move.

Its awesome, and for the price of as low as $75 (thats a piece of history you are buying too) its a great gun.

its not perfect though. The gun gets VERY hot VERY fast (around 70 rounds back to back) and the bolt can stick if you dont take a bore brush the chamber when you clean it.

no major issues, its accurate, its fun, and its cheap.

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs37/i/2008/275/f/6/The_One_Tool_To_Rule_All_by_Tatsumi67.jpg

If you get it from the right place, you get a mess of accessories like a bayonet, a mag pouch, and oil can, a dog collar sling and the single greatest accessory for the mosin ever, the take down tool.

Just a single piece of steel, sharpened to a screw driver edge a the apex, with notches for gauging the firing pin protrusion and taking the firing pin out of the bolt assembly.

FyredUp
November 30, 2008, 02:27 AM
Is this rifle accurate enough to scope and use for longer ranges?

ChicagoTex
November 30, 2008, 08:38 AM
Is this rifle accurate enough to scope and use for longer ranges?

Many folks do, possibly the most notable of which was one Vasily Zaitsev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Grigoryevich_Zaitsev).

But hey, he's only one of the most accomplished snipers in history, why take his word for it? :D;):cool:

FairWarning
November 30, 2008, 09:27 AM
Make sure to get one with a clean bore and the Mosin has very good accuracy (although probably not as good as the 8mm Mauser) and an excellent round. Super cheap to operate also. They do kick like PO'd mules though! I'd get some kind of slip-on recoil pad. I guy I know without a recoil pad that would get big bruises after a session with the Mosin, and this was no little guy, probably 6'4" and 270 lbs! I only shot it a few times myself for that reason....

I'm looking into getting a Dragunov sniper in 7.62x54R while that's still even possible myself since I already have a Mauser bolt action.

Shane Tuttle
November 30, 2008, 10:15 AM
There are only 27 parts in the whole gun, only 9 of which actually move.

Actually, the NRA parts breakdown show 34...but who's countin'...:D

The gun gets VERY hot VERY fast (around 70 rounds back to back) and the bolt can stick if you dont take a bore brush the chamber when you clean it.

Just about any bolt action rifle that goes thought 70 back to back would be cooking....

Usually they are fairly accurate, depending on bore and muzzle condition.

Jimro said it best. It really depends on the bore/muzzle condition. Some people claim 1MOA, some will claim minute of pie plate.

They are lots of fun to shoot. As Tatsumi67 said, they're really cheap right now due to plentiful surplus stock. However, since Mausers are getting hard to find at a decent price, my prediction is the Mosins are going to be heading in that direction in about 10-15 years. That seems a long way away, but it will sneak up on you like an Apache when you least expect it.

jpwilly
November 30, 2008, 11:08 AM
I have 5 and none are MOA one shoots 2" 5 shot groups at 100 the worst shoots 5" with different surp ammo.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/M91-30M44002.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/ScoutPaint007.jpg

overkill556x45
November 30, 2008, 11:34 AM
I recently bought a Mosin 91/30 at a surplus store--very good condition for $99. They are FUN! I got 330rds of Bulgarian heavy ball (183gr steel core if I recall) for $50+S&H. I got a tin of 440 rds of Russian light ball (147gr steel core, IIRC) for $80+S&H. (www.aimsurplus.com)

Here's what happened when I shot 31rds at a target on a poorly chosen target hanger:
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1174/76/25/500045824/n500045824_1445781_5431.jpg

Mine made about a 4-6" group at 50yds from standing unsupported and a few from kneeling (that's for all 31 rounds on the target--It was so much fun to shoot that I didn't slow down to take a careful 5-shot group).

Get one and enjoy! You may want to get two so you can shoot one while the other cools off. Try www.7.62x54R.net for more info on cleaning up after corrosive surplus ammo (the process is worth it to shoot 15-18 cents/rd), and for all sorts of articles on the Mosin Nagant and all of its variants.

the rifleer
November 30, 2008, 12:03 PM
i have an m44, which is the same gun, just a shorter carbine version with a folding bayonet on the side. it is a very good gun and is built to last. i can shoot about a 2.5'' group at 100 yards, which is very respectable for a wwii era rifle (it is a 1946 model FYI). for the most part they are in fairly good shape, but sometimes you do find some that are in poor shape. just find the best one you can.

the most accurate ones a finish made and some have even been reported to shoot sub MOA, but they are harder to find and will cost you more, around $200-300.


they are cheap, so i say buy one. shoot it and take care of it. make sure that is you sure corrosive ammo you clean it appropriately.

Tatsumi67
November 30, 2008, 01:27 PM
Just about any bolt action rifle that goes thought 70 back to back would be cooking....



I suppose it doesnt matter much considering the adverage Russian conscript didnt live long enough to reload twice let alone put out 70 rounds.

troy_mclure
November 30, 2008, 01:54 PM
ive got one i sportsterized, got the choped bolt handle, syn stock, drilled/tapped for scope, etc....
its good for 5"@200m.

you can get tons of goodies for one at ati gunstocks

carguychris
November 30, 2008, 04:59 PM
In general for all Russian Mosin-Nagants...

Plus: Cheap. One of the simplest and most robust bolt-actions ever invented. Easy to work on. Acceptably accurate for plinking, hunting, and general blasting IMHO. 7.62x54R cartridge is a very good all-rounder capable of taking down any game animal in North America with good shot placement. Good sights. Handy hinged magazine floorplate makes unloading a snap. Built-in interrupter makes it easy to load from stripper clips. Ammo inexpensive. May be collectible in the future. Looks threatening but in a classic kind of way. :cool:

Minus: 7.62x54R is your only cartridge option. Ammo may become expensive and hard to find if milsurp supply evaporates. Selection of factory soft-point and hollow-point loads is limited. Not a match rifle. Triggers generally stiff, creepy, and gritty, and you can't do much about it without potentially making the rifle unsafe to carry while loaded. Factory stock has loads of drop and small buttplate, making felt recoil more severe than equally powerful modern rifles. Skinny barrel heats up quickly. Safety is an absolute PITA to use, possibly the worst military design ever. Difficult to mount scope in traditional Western position on top of receiver because bent-down bolt handle is required.

FWIW I say buy it. :cool: Although my list of minuses sounds bad, IMHO they're outweighed by the plusses. I own several. :D

MisterPX
November 30, 2008, 05:01 PM
$70 for rifle, 20 cents a round. How can you go wrong? :D

FireForged
November 30, 2008, 06:11 PM
Beware of loose 7.62X54 ammo with yellow painted tip. These are not intended for use in the bolt action rifle. I have been told that they are "higher pressure" and were used in a 7.62x54 belt fed machine gun. Dont know if its true but I have been told this on several ocassions.

ChicagoTex
November 30, 2008, 06:29 PM
Safety is an absolute PITA to use, possibly the worst military design ever.

I must agree. Furthermore, the safety is very prone to snapping itself off. The only feasible way to carry this safely is on an empty chamber IMO. Then when ready to shoot, cycle the bolt. It's much faster anyway.

triggerhappy2006
November 30, 2008, 08:05 PM
Beware of loose 7.62X54 ammo with yellow painted tip. These are not intended for use in the bolt action rifle. I have been told that they are "higher pressure" and were used in a 7.62x54 belt fed machine gun.:eek::eek:
Wow these are the only rounds I have ever shot out of mine and never had any problems.(200+ rounds so far) Did notice the spark when the hit dirt with rocks in it, cut a bullet down the center, found it to be steel jacketed

Darren007
November 30, 2008, 11:50 PM
I must agree. Furthermore, the safety is very prone to snapping itself off.

Are you sure your thinking of a Mosin?

Its pretty much a physical impossibility for a Mosin safety to "snap off" due to the way it operates.

I agree with everyone else though...working the safety is a PAIN!!!! And you can forget even bothering with it if your hands are cold.:p

troy_mclure
December 1, 2008, 06:03 AM
safety?


ive just carried on an empty chamber for years, please show pics of this safety!

Dezynco
December 1, 2008, 06:34 AM
LOL you didn't know it has a safety?:D

The round knob on the back of the bolt.....you pull back really hard on it and turn it counter-clockwise about 1/4 turn. It catches the shoulder of the cocking piece against a notch on the receiver

Now that you know, it's still probably easier to carry it on an empty chamber, or leave the bolt open until you need to shoot, then just close it. Of course if you do that, you'll need to be careful to keep junk from getting into the chamber and magazine area.

ChicagoTex
December 1, 2008, 08:46 AM
Are you sure your thinking of a Mosin?

Its pretty much a physical impossibility for a Mosin safety to "snap off" due to the way it operates.

I'm certain I'm thinking of a Mosin, my M44 specifically. If you don't seat it all the way, or accidentally sweep it against something, the safety snaps off.

That's what I'm saying.

carguychris
December 1, 2008, 09:48 AM
I'm certain I'm thinking of a Mosin, my M44 specifically. If you don't seat it all the way, or accidentally sweep it against something, the safety snaps off.
+1. The only thing that holds it in the "Safe" position is a little ledge on the receiver. It's possible to hang the cocking piece just barely on the edge of the little ledge, and since it has the full force of the firing pin spring pulling on it, it doesn't take much to knock it back into the "Fire" position. Furthermore, if you (or Private Simonov 60 years ago) do this a bunch of times, you're going to round off the ledge and make the rifle more and more prone to this problem. :(
I agree with everyone else though...working the safety is a PAIN!!!! And you can forget even bothering with it if your hands are cold.
For the OP's benefit, one of the reasons for the stiff trigger is that these rifles were built to be carried with the safety on "Fire". If the rifle is correctly assembled, it can be jolted extremely hard and the cocking piece won't "push off". Many historians seem to agree that most Russian and Soviet troops in the field carried their rifles with a round in the chamber and the safety on "Fire".

OTOH this is 2008 and you're not a peasant conscript from the Urals, so I recommend carrying on an empty chamber. ;)

carlb416
January 15, 2011, 05:29 AM
I just bought, what appears to be a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30. So far the only markings on it are "1954 UZ1792" and a triangle with another triangle inside (which could be an arrow, but doesn't appear the same as the indications on websites.)
Could anyone give me more information about this gun and the serial number (I'm assuming that's the UZ1793)

carlb416:D

rickyrick
January 15, 2011, 08:11 AM
Its from the other place that's harder to say than Tula and no coffee yet and not going to attempt to spell ony cell.

You can find it easy on the mn sites.

kraigwy
January 15, 2011, 11:05 AM
I like Mosins. I had to opportunity to go through a batch and pick one with an excellent barrel. It shot high but I fixed that.

I like them for the history of the rifle. I got mine for the CMP Vintage Rifle Matches.

However, I don't understand the comments about it being a hard kicker.

Recoil doesn't seem to be that much of a problem to me, and I'm a real wimp with it comes to recoil in my old age.

On a side note, I found the Mosin a reasonably easy gun to shoot off hand. Probably do to the extra long barrel dampening the wobble.

boltgun71
January 15, 2011, 11:45 AM
Speaking of the safety, I just installed a Timney trigger on a Mosin Nagant for a family member and it comes with a Rem 700 style safety. You have to inlet the stock for it, but its worth the hassle and very simple to use. Anyone familiar with the safety on a Rem 700 would appreciatte it on the Mosin Nagant.

As for the Timney Trigger itself, its adjsutable between 2-4lbs, and comes factory set at 3lbs. Its super simple to install, very crisp with absolutely no travel or play, plus has the additional 700 style safety. Its a huge upgrade over the stock military trigger. It cost almost as much as the rifle itself, but if you like the Mosin and want to shoot it to the best of its ability and/or you like tinkering then its worth every penny. You have to inlet the stock quite a bit for it, but just take your time and its fine.

rickyrick
January 15, 2011, 02:20 PM
My 303 kicks harder, so does my 12ga.

Only had my mn since Christmas. I worked on the trigger already.
I noticed that you must ensure that the sear catches the bolt squarely. You can get a bright light and look under the cocking piece and see how it catctches. Loosen the screw a little and adjust side to side. That makes a huge difference alone and a little polish job. I found it was good without shimming.

MikeG
January 15, 2011, 10:56 PM
Beware of loose 7.62X54 ammo with yellow painted tip. These are not intended for use in the bolt action rifle. I have been told that they are "higher pressure" and were used in a 7.62x54 belt fed machine gun. Dont know if its true but I have been told this on several ocassions.

Not true The yellow tip designates heavy ball, 182 grain vs light ball at 147 grains. It was intended for machine guns, as the heavy ball had momentum farther out. Not only is the yellow tip safe in Mosin Nagants, some seem to prefer it.