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View Full Version : Mountain lions, Cougars, Panthers, Pumas, oh my!


zjeepgozweeln
November 23, 2008, 11:27 PM
All the same animal.. but

Whats the deal in Kalifornia?! Some of our deranged citizens voted to make it a protected species back in 1990. As I get more into hunting, I'm learning that this was one huge mistake and now it is threatening other prey species. We now have to pay DFG people to radio collar Sierra Nevada bighorn-sheep and the cougars in their area to monitor populations and then pay the DFG people to kill the cougars, instead of letting hunters PAY to take them. That is just one example. My friend has seen one in his back yard in here orange county.

I'm no mountain lion hunter or wildlife management expert, but it seems a little stupid to me. If there's nothing to keep the top predator in check it will proliferate and spread out as long as food can be found. Their main staple is wild deer, but farm raised animals, pets, and people seem to be acceptable to their palate. They hunt until they eat. If there are no deer... well what's next? Move and find some new food.

jdscholer
November 24, 2008, 01:20 AM
Not quite as bad here in Oregon, but still bad. We lost the right to hunt the cats with hounds, and the population has exploded. Deer, meanwhile, are disappearing alarmingly. Cougars are being seen in town and suburbs.
We can still hunt them with a valid tag, but no dogs. It can be done, but it's hard. I called one up years ago while coyote calling, and always considered it a miricle. Guess we need to start working at it a lot more. jd

Double Naught Spy
November 24, 2008, 04:33 AM
If there's nothing to keep the top predator in check it will proliferate and spread out as long as food can be found.

And now you understand the overpopulation problem with humans.

VaFisher
November 24, 2008, 06:52 AM
[/QUOTE]And now you understand the overpopulation problem with humans.
[/QUOTE]

How true!

Getting back to the cats, It's a shame we sit back and let the liberals pull off such BS when it comes to what we love so much.
We as hunters support and take care of most all animals in this Country, with that said here comes the liberals to help then they screw it up so bad it takes years to change back to what it should be to keep all the animals in the correct numbers to support all of them not just a single animal.
I for one am feed up with all the bull we have to stay up with to help keep this kind of thing from taking place, we all need to stand together and kick some butt every chance we get so this kind of agenda gets beat instead of passed.

Art Eatman
November 24, 2008, 09:14 AM
Emotion-based perceptions take precedence over facts, in the modern U.S. of A. The recent presidential campaigning gives proof of that, as does PETA membership.

I don't know if there is any hope for the Left Coast. Some years back, a cougar killed a woman near Sacramento. The cougar, a mother cat with two cubs, was then killed. People out there donated more money for care of the cubs than to the family of the dead woman...

jdscholer
November 24, 2008, 09:21 AM
What happened In my state is that what should have been a decision by wildlife biologists, was made by popular vote. And as usual in our state and others, emotional, non-hunting urbanites outnmbered the folks who actually have experience and exposure with the situation.
Typical scenario is the news photo of a dead cougar surrounded by a pack of hounds and a smiling hunter. Granolies in the city think its a crime to kill such a beautiful and majestic cat like this, and if only they could prevent it they could go hiking and enjoy the presence of cougars in their own backyard.:rolleyes:
Well that is starting to happen now. cougars are showing up litteraly in back yards, even in our cities which are often pretty forested. Maybe if enough granolies or their pets get consumed the political opinion will change, and our deer herds will recover;) jd

W. C. Quantrill
November 25, 2008, 01:19 AM
Up at my ranch in Kansas, when we see them, we just kill em and bury them. Pretty common there, Shoot, Shovel, and SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

redwing 40
November 25, 2008, 01:39 AM
Kansas Dept. of Wild Life states that no sign of a Mtn. Lion has been found in modern times in Kansas. They state that no paw prints, photos, or bodies have been found in Kansas in recent history.
It is a little hard to understand when they have been found in some of the neighboring states.:confused:

hogdogs
November 25, 2008, 01:51 AM
Redwing, Just ask WC.... He will tell you them biologists are 100% right...:rolleyes: No big kats there:D....
That is the way of the 3 S's really works well.... Get the officials to play along;)
Brent

Socrates
November 25, 2008, 02:17 AM
Pray, or is that prey, for an earthquake. God, why isn't Nevada ocean front????:rolleyes:

W. C. Quantrill
November 25, 2008, 10:25 AM
That is why they are known locally as the fur and feathers Nazis. Until someone kills one and is stupid enough to put pictures of it in a local paper so that the Nazis can arrest them for shooting a protected species that they claim does not exist, it will remain as it is. Meanwhile, the landowners will continue with the SSS.

The farmers and ranchers have nothing to prove by lying about seeing the big cats. More so, numerous people would not come forth and lie about seeing the cats. The F&FN's have become so unpopular and distrusted, that people just do their own thing and no one tells the state employees anything. It has become the code to make the state employees unwelcome in our area.

Nope, didnt see nothin. Didnt hear nothin. By the way, you are tresspassin, aint your radio callin you?

davlandrum
November 25, 2008, 11:21 AM
It's a shame we sit back and let the liberals pull off such BS

I am not sure anyone is letting the liberals do anything. The problems arise in California, and to some extent here in Oregon, due to the population imbalances - there are too many city dwellers who have no clue about a measure like this for the more rural occupants of the state to overcome it.

I agree we have to fight it, but at the end of the day you still have to convince a certain percentage of people that believe a city park is "nature" to vote your way.

Creature
November 25, 2008, 12:36 PM
Just because you dont see any cougars around doesnt mean they dont see you:

http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/12/63/91/01/sneake10.jpg

grymster2007
November 25, 2008, 12:43 PM
Deer, meanwhile, are disappearing alarmingly.

The deer population at my place is out of hand! Neighbor said she watched a mountain lion drag a deer away right before we moved in about 7 years ago, but I've seen no sign of them. They eat wild turkeys too?

How do I import one of these putty cats?

hogdogs
November 25, 2008, 12:44 PM
Creature, I have seen that before but still:eek::eek::eek: when I do see it! If not photoshopped... that is Deer whos seconds in life are very limited...
Brent

Creature
November 25, 2008, 03:35 PM
I can't vouch for it, but that picture is just so creepy...that I actually believe it is unaltered and the real deal.

grymster2007
November 25, 2008, 03:46 PM
Just because you dont see any cougars around doesnt mean they dont see you:

I sometimes wonder if there aren't some cats around my place. With the deer population so high, we'd never notice when some went missing. Over the hill from me are larger properties, then open space in hilly, oak tree country between Napa and Fairfield. Seems like prime cat country to me.

hogdogs
November 25, 2008, 04:40 PM
Grym, Put out a bowl of meow mix and if it is gone the next day than you surely have panthers!!!:rolleyes::D
we do not at this time have a viable population showing up but we have plenty of deer and pigs for them to eat.
Brent

VaFisher
November 25, 2008, 05:49 PM
I agree we have to fight it, but at the end of the day you still have to convince a certain percentage of people that believe a city park is "nature" to vote your way.


Could be but I feel they have their own thoughts and I try my best to respect them even if I dont agree simply because I should.
With that said I also feel like they do not respect our views and need to start before things get out of hand. Personally I do not think that's to much to ask and I will gladly enforce what I feel is right until they learn to respect us for what we love. Not to meantion everyone is born a natural hunter until others change this natural ability.

Nnobby45
November 25, 2008, 06:12 PM
I'm no mountain lion hunter or wildlife management expert, but it seems a little stupid to me. If there's nothing to keep the top predator in check it will proliferate and spread out as long as food can be found. Their main staple is........

Sounds like you're getting the left figured out. The activists who got the law passed don't want you to be allowed to hunt ANYTHING. And they're working on that, too.

Whether it's the Greens that would outlaw hunting, or the anti-gunners that protect the predators by creating gun free zones, you don't fight their ideology with simple logic. Logic doesn't drive their machine, nor does it defeat them.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Some may disagree.

onthejon55
November 26, 2008, 12:59 AM
if i ever see one im shooting it and throwing that damn animal in the creek

Creature
November 26, 2008, 08:44 AM
if i ever see one im shooting it and throwing that damn animal in the creek

Just because the cougar was being a cougar doing cougar things?

azredhawk44
November 26, 2008, 09:21 AM
I've seen one in Washington state and one in Arizona, in my pre-gun owning granola eating college student days.

Made me respect what I could accomplish with a gun versus what I could accomplish without one... and started me down the road of examining self-preservation/self-determination/conservatism/libertarianism.

I'm grateful for what I learned from those two cats.

But man, were they scary in the middle of the night, full of righteous fury that I was in their territory!:eek:

Since then, I buy a cat tag over the counter every year in AZ just in case of another run-in, but I don't think it's ever likely. Those two fellows taught me something and now they're done... no reason to talk to me anymore. They'll go and scare some other libtard-ecohugger into examining his/her priorities and outlook on the world. :D

hogdogs
November 26, 2008, 09:36 AM
Never got the displeasure of hearing one in the woods but I am sure it will cause uncontrolled bodily function like constricted hair follicles and unconstricted sphinter muscle:eek: But I did care for a guys "cat yard" and he had several each of most of what we call "exotic cats" and man they got a voice you will never forget! Now picture a female in heat and 2 male cougars yellin at each other all night from their cages... And her sounding like she is dieing!
Brent

jdscholer
November 26, 2008, 09:49 AM
Most states with a healthy cougar population have provisions to hunt cougars legally; except CA I guess.
The nature of the beast makes them verrrry tough to outsmart without dogs. I read an article once in one of the popular hunting rags that gave some interesting findings from cougar studies at that time.- this was in the 90's - They said that about 7% of avid outdoorsmen ever see a cougar in their lifetime. It also said that the cats seemed to prefer killing a mature buck deer when given the choice. - so much for the sick and weak theory- I believe they made a kll every three days or so, and I'll quit here before I start making things up.:) I'd enjoy being corrected on these figures if anyone has more recent and accurate info.
These cats, as a trophy, would rank as top of the list for challenge and proof of skill. They also aren't bad to eat. We all oughta do what we can to reduce the population. jd

Art Eatman
November 26, 2008, 09:54 AM
onthejon55, don't throw it in the creek. Butcher it out; it's some of the best meat you'll ever throw a liplock on. Barbecue the hams.

Ya wanna check for Big Kitty? Sweep the ground under a tree limb so you can see any tracks left by any visitors. Take a piece of rag and soak it in bacon grease. Tie it about waist- to head-high. There WILL be visitors, and possibly BK will drop by.

There's a mountain about a half-mile south of my house where generations of mama mountain lions have made a home base. From time to time, Handsome Stranger drops by to ensure an ongoing supply of lion cubs. I can set my fisted hand flat in the track and have about an inch of pawprint outside my hand.

A few years back I was meddling around on a ranch about three miles north of my house. Within a two-mile stretch were the tracks of five different lions, all laid down the previous night. Sometimes it looks like we're bum deep in lion poop.

grymster2007
November 26, 2008, 10:35 AM
Take a piece of rag and soak it in bacon grease. Tie it about waist- to head-high.

I might have to give this a try. With all the deer and the seemingly well-suited countryside, I find it hard to imagine the big cats aren't around. My ground is a bit rocky for finding prints, but maybe I could embellish with some soil from the yard.

Biggest problem is, I won't usually give up a bacon grease soaked rag. :)

hogdogs
November 26, 2008, 10:40 AM
Grym... Unscented talcum powder sprinkled under the rag will take a print on rock...;)
Brent

jdscholer
November 26, 2008, 10:49 AM
By the way, I've got my own cougar story and it goes like this.
A buddy and I were looking for a good firewood snag to cut and stopped in a pretty good spot to call a coyote. Had the 10-22 and the call and that was it.
We walked about a quarter mile from the pick-up and sat under a tree. No camo. Ed took the rifle, I used the call. We sat back to back, with him looking the best direction.
After about 10 minutes, I felt Ed raise the gun, and he wispered, "It's a cougar!" I says, "It's probably a bobcat. Kill it!" He says,"Cougar." I say,"How long is the tail?" He says,"Three *****ing feet.":eek:
At that point I decided to turn and look, and he was right. It was sitting in the road, 35 yards away, switching its tail back and forth. It was huge and it was beautiful. And here is where it got kind of freakey. The cat sat there for several seconds while we decided whether or not to shoot. -decided no- We passed the rifle back and forth to look with the 4X scope. He still sat there. We finally stood up, facing him, and walked out in the road, and he STILL SAT THERE. Finally he wheeled around and bounded up the road the same direction he had come from.
I was most impressed with the size of him, and how smooth he moved. Also the way he showed no real fear for us even when it was obvious that we were human.
I now buy a tag every year, and hopefully will see one when I'm a little more prepaired. jd

grymster2007
November 26, 2008, 11:07 AM
Unscented talcum powder sprinkled under the rag will take a print on rock...

All my talcum powder is lavender-bouquet scented :)

Thanks Hogdogs!

hogdogs
November 26, 2008, 11:15 AM
"lavender-bouquet scented" That may be just the bait for a BK... He will think some little vegan gal has just skipped her way thru...:eek:
Just ribbing you a bit... Not implying you are a tree eating bunny kicker or nothin'...:D
Brent

Byron Quick
November 26, 2008, 06:20 PM
jdscholer,

Beware animals that are not acting according to their nature. I was at a campfire at hunt camp one night shooting the bull with my cousins. Then a gray fox walked up to the fire among us. My young cousins were all excited and ready to put a collar on it. They were a mite upset when I shot it.

They didn't know that it was probably rabid until I told them. Or injured.

I captured a red fox one night that was standing in the road when I was about their age. I did have sense enough to capture it with a heavy quilt instead of picking it up.

Took it to a game warden who caged it in his back yard. Even though there were no visible injuries, that fox died before morning. Only thing we could figure was it got hit by a car and had a brain injury.

Shot a buck one day that was just standing there about twenty five yards away in a clearing looking at me as I walked. It was in the open and I was in the open. It just stood there looking at me. After I shot it, I walked up to it. One antler had been torn completely out of its head. The antler didn't break off...a piece of the buck's skull came out with it. I could see down into sinus type bone maybe an inch or so down. It was dry with no sign of infection or insect infestation. Everything else about the deer seemed normal physically. But I left that deer there. The coyotes ate well that night. Better safe than sorry.

Drachenstein
November 27, 2008, 02:09 PM
Yea, we don't have cougars here in KY. I live on property adjoining the Ft Knox reservation. A large dark gray cat with a long tale ate every one of my guinea hens one by one. My neighbor’s hens and chickens too. The game warden said we don't have cougars but if I did see it shoot it and they'll dispose of the carcass. Oh! Did I mention the 3x4 inch tracks next to a pile of blood and feathers? The warden said when they get older they go after easy prey. I had my Darwin moment going after it at dusk; when I realized I may no longer be the hunter. On the brighter side it did get rid of the feral dogs, which use to be a problem around here.

We didn’t have any bears in the region either until a news crew captured it absolutely destroying some garbage cans. The News station played a Game Warden stating that contrary to rumors there are no bears in northern Kentucky, they then showed the video. It was hilarious.

The one that made me snicker was years past; the Commanding General of Ft Knox declaring and writing a policy letter informing all concerned that there are no poisonous snakes on the Ft. Knox. Unfortunately none of the snakes receive the policy letter or just ignored it, as did we.

jughead2
November 27, 2008, 03:52 PM
aint any in my town either but a neighbor had one jump his fence and chase his dog. he lives about 1/2 mi. from me. i will stick with s-s-s. and drive on.

Art Eatman
November 28, 2008, 10:12 AM
While I agree with Byron about odd-ball behavior in animals, cougars are different. They tend to believe they're the Boss Hog at the top of the food chain. They're also rather curious about trespassers on their turf.

Cougars may or may not show any fear of people. You just never know. The first one I ever saw spooked from the noise of my truck at maybe 150 yards. He ran seft-to-right across the jeep trail, giving me a good reason to believe that in the first blast of speed, 100 yards in some four seconds is quite possible. Other folks down here have been followed, but with no attack or bothering.

Then again...A couple of geologists were driving south into Big Bend National Park. They saw something in the road ahead, slowed down, and then stopped some thirty or forty yards from three cougars. Two toms and a female in heat. The guys watched as the toms took turns pleasuring the lady. After some twenty minutes or so, the three cats wandered off in different directions.

Pilot
November 28, 2008, 10:18 AM
This cat was taken in Colorado in 2004. 145 lbs. Recently a dog was taken out of its owners bedroom in Idledale, CO and killed. The 130 lb, mountain lion jumped a six foot fence with the 72 lb dog in its mouth.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/06/mountain-lion-sneaks-into-house-grabs-couples/

Ricky
November 28, 2008, 11:26 AM
I live and hunt in Northern Kalifornia. I used to hunt a lot up near Alturas (Way up in the N.E. corner of Ca.) The mule deer were absolutly thick up there 25 years ago. There were cougers up there then, we saw the occational kill and kitty tracks. There was a long drought (late 1980's)followed by a hard winter that was tough on the deer population. The deer population has never recovered. We used to see 25+ dear a day, The last time I was there I went a few days without seeing deer and there was a lot more cat sign. My cousin was up there recently and said that the deer and still few and far between. With the increase in the lion population the deer population will never recover.
I saw a lion once, near lake Shasta. It was night and it jumped accross the road ahead of my truck. It looked big and fast. I'm sure that hunting them without hounds would be impossible.

sc928porsche
November 28, 2008, 07:41 PM
Nature takes care of its own....not enough food and animals die out. We are the ones who keep fooling around with the ballance. Killing off all the preadators except ourself only weakens wildlife. We always want the best and healty. The other preadators take the weak and old.

There will always be room for me and the preadators out in the wild, but I NEVER go out unarmed. If I had to go a season without sucess, the so be it. One deer a season is enough for me.

jckeffer
November 30, 2008, 05:27 PM
Washington has similiar laws as Oregon - no hunting with hounds and no baiting. However the 'explosion' of cougars has not occured.

Several weeks ago a cougar killed and partially ate my pet goat (actually my son's goat). According to a research scientist from the Univ. of Wa who visited my place (8 acres 22 miles east of downtown Seattle) to view the kill, just the opposite is occuring. Initially there was a significant increase in the cougar population for the first few years. Then the population became infected with a transmittable version of feline leukemia - always fatal. This luekemia, according to the scientist, originated in domestic cats that later fell prey to cougars. The initial explosion in local cougar population (in the vicinity of urban areas) created a climate of pet predation and then the easy transmission of the disease to other cougars. It is expected to get worse.
By 'saving' the cougars from hunting the state has condemned them to an even worse fate.