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Raider2000
November 23, 2008, 06:39 PM
This question is for all my brothers who shoot PRB Patched Round Ball.

My Lyman Trade Rifle that I had gotten earlier this month is a wonderful shooter with .495/.015 PRB out to even 100 yards & as of today I've got about 50 - 55 shots through it but it is still cutting my patches at loading "I think," I'm just wondering.

How many shots does it take before a rifle will stop cutting patches & yet still shoot as good or possibly better than it does now?

I know that the grouping may improve with playing with the charge a bit but I've tried scubbing the bore with 0000 steel wool thinking it was just a minor burr that can be smoothed out this way "this cleaning I did not do this" & I know that I could get some paste that'll help in this situation but I concidder that to be a last ditch attempt.

I know some of you have had this with one of their fine ball shooters.

BTW she still shot great groups at 50 yards & my one shot at 100 yards even amazed my co-worker that was there hitting just 2" right of the bull & 1" low, BTW I used some .015 Pillow Ticking from Southern Bloomer "Gander Mountain had em pretty cheap" soaked in Crisco & the ones I did recover were worse cut than the cotton .015 patch lubed with Wonderlube 1000 that was from my first shot.

Thanx guys.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
November 23, 2008, 07:05 PM
I would say go up to a .022 patch or go up to a .500 ball. If target shooting
use "Moose Milk" for the lube, which is a water souable oil & water mix. I
make my own which is a 5 % oil & water mix. If hunting a "Teflon" lubed
patch sure works fine. You load this dry. Hope this helps.

Hawg Haggen
November 23, 2008, 07:17 PM
It's shooting pretty good to be cutting patches. It'll take a few hundred rounds to stop patch cutting. I get my pillow ticking from Wal Mart. The last I got was 5 bucks a square yard and is .020. Sizes vary so if you have a set of calipers take them with you. I've not tried it but I've heard Hoppes #9+ bp bore cleaner makes a good patch lube. I've been using bore butter and spit patches mostly.

FredT
November 24, 2008, 12:09 AM
Try a .010 patch. I usually use a .490 ball with a .015 patch and a .495 ball with a .010 patch. Get things too tight and the patches will cut. However, if your combo is giving the good groups you are looking for, live with it.

Hawg Haggen
November 24, 2008, 12:31 AM
Get things too tight and the patches will cut.

Sharp edged rifling is what cuts patches. I use a .530 ball and a .020 patch in my .54. It's hard to get started but doesn't cut patches.

Raider2000
November 24, 2008, 05:24 AM
Thanx for the info, I'll try the different lubes out, & I guess I'll use the 0000 steel wool to help every other cleaning too.

Hawg Haggen
November 24, 2008, 08:12 AM
You could lap it.

Raider2000
November 24, 2008, 09:34 AM
What's a good laping compound?

madcratebuilder
November 24, 2008, 10:33 AM
Why fix what isn't broken? If your groups are good I would leave the barrel alone.
Lyman calls for a .490rb with a .015 patch in their .50 trade rifle. You could try shooting the .490rb and see what you get.

Pahoo
November 24, 2008, 11:56 AM
Hi Raider,
As you know, their's cut and their's burnt and then their is a combination of both. Would have to go back and see how hot you are loading and sure wish I could see your patches. My DeerStalker does the same but not too extreme. As a diagnostic tool, put a bore button between your powder and PBR, then check your patch. I know it's easier said then done. ;)
madcratebuilder: Why fix what isn't broken? If your groups are good I would leave the barrel alone.

For the most, I'd have to agree with this as you are getting great performance, regardless of what that other guy said.


Be safe !!!

Raider2000
November 24, 2008, 01:01 PM
As far as being burned, NOPE :D neither the Ticking or regular Cotton is getting burned, just a slight brownish color on the cotton patch & the ticking outside of the cut area could almost be shot again.

I have some store bought Hornady .490 Balls "last Cristmas present from one of my bud's" I'll try some of those this weekend if I have time, my next outing will be shooting around 80 - 100 shots through it & I'll take them along.

BTW the Southern Bloomer sight states that these ticking patches are .015 but I measured a bunch of em last night & they were .017 - .018 thickness, maybe just a tad too tight for a .495 cast ball being that my cotton patches measure .014 - .015 thick & isn't cutting as bad.

I'll try to post a picture of my recovered patches tonight, oh & I do have these nice .500 wads for this purpose but I try not to use em unless they are necessary "kinda hate have good money go down range unless I have to & moma has been counting pennies if ya know what I mean." :)

Pahoo
November 24, 2008, 01:02 PM
One of my favorite movies is "The Last of The Mohicans". For those of you who have seen it, I found the part where Hawkeye used a silk patch to gain some range. Well, I actually tried it on one of my side-cockers and can surely tell you that it just does not work worth a darn. At least not under those conditions. I finally got it to work and did not burn the patch but did some modifications to the load and sure didn't get the same results. Sure have to wonder where Hollywood got that one. It has been documented that for a given load, thinner patches are more acurate but there is always a point of deminishing returns. :barf:



Be Safe !!!

Hawg Haggen
November 24, 2008, 01:55 PM
Try the .490's with the patches you have. If you can get your hands on some .010 patches try them with the .495's. I really don't think the .010 will work well with .490 balls. IMHO tighter is better.

Raider2000
November 24, 2008, 03:30 PM
I agree about the tighter is better, I do like what I've been getting out of this fine rifle with the Cotton .015 patches & .495 cast ball, but ATM I've yet to get to Wally World to see about getting bulk Ticking.

I think I'll have a little time on Sunday to shoot some so I'll make it a point to use the .018 ticking with the .490 ball & see what I have there.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
November 24, 2008, 04:51 PM
Well I have had TC's Hawken guns, custom barrels, Douglas barrels all in 50
cal. I and the guys I shoot with always use .500 balls and .022 patchs. Never
had any trouble with any of them. I use a .454 dia. ball in my true .450 and
.022 patches. If your cutting the patch at the muzzle, it needs to be re-
crowned. Tap a ball in on your patching and pull it back out to check if the
patching is indeed being cut at the muzzle.

Hawg Haggen
November 24, 2008, 05:16 PM
Well I have had TC's Hawken guns, custom barrels, Douglas barrels all in 50
cal. I and the guys I shoot with always use .500 balls and .022 patchs. Never
had any trouble with any of them. I use a .454 dia. ball in my true .450 and
.022 patches. If your cutting the patch at the muzzle, it needs to be re-
crowned. Tap a ball in on your patching and pull it back out to check if the
patching is indeed being cut at the muzzle.

What do you use for a short starter, a 10 lb. sledge hammer?:confused: In my .54 a .530 ball and a .020 patch is hard enough to start.
This, I believe is a new rifle. The crown is not going to be the problem. The problem with high production guns is the bore is not lapped to smooth burrs and sharp edges left by the rifling button.

mykeal
November 24, 2008, 05:37 PM
I presume everyone is measuring their patch thickness the same way: COMPRESSED, like it it when it's forced into the barrel between the ball and the barrel walls. Yes?

If you're not using a micrometer, then you need to get one as a vernier caliper will not fully or correctly compress the material. And if you are using a micrometer, be sure you're turning it all the way down until it can turn no longer; stopping when the ratchet clicks is way too soon.

But you all knew that, right?

Raider2000
November 24, 2008, 07:15 PM
Like Hawg said this is a brand new rifle with only about 50 shots through it, I started with the same .495 182gr. balls that I've been casting from my Lee mold for over 18 years & the .010 lubed cotton patches that does shoot well out of my CVA Bobcat but was OK out of this rifle with 70gr. FFFG Goex.

As Hawg & others suggested I tried some .015 lubed cotton patches using the same 70gr. charge & the groups off hand improved but I noticed that the patches that I was recovering were cut a little.

Yesterday I tried some Southern Bloomer Ticking Patches just lubed with Crisco to see if there can be any changes but instead of any real improvement of grouping I only noticed more of my patches having cut sections in them.

As far as measuring my patches, I usually use my dial caliper & push pretty hard to compress it as much as I can.

Hawg Haggen
November 25, 2008, 01:41 PM
I presume everyone is measuring their patch thickness the same way: COMPRESSED, like it it when it's forced into the barrel between the ball and the barrel walls. Yes?

If you're not using a micrometer, then you need to get one as a vernier caliper will not fully or correctly compress the material. And if you are using a micrometer, be sure you're turning it all the way down until it can turn no longer; stopping when the ratchet clicks is way too soon.

But you all knew that, right?

Ummm, actually no. I've been using calipers.
After trying it with a mic I'm not so sure about that Mykeal. Now I don't have anything new fangled with a click stop, just my old Brown and Sharpe from my days as a machinest way back when. If I mic it like I normally would it comes out to .018. I can compress it down to .008. With my calipers it measures .020.