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Moerlein
November 23, 2008, 01:07 AM
its obviously the cheapest, along with brown bear (more russian ammo) but i have heard bad reputations about it. im looking for personal opinions if you have used it. and others what is the best 5.56 ammo buy in bulk for the price. really im just going to target shoot, nothing in a competition. just backyard shooting. id at least liek some decent accuracy lol. i have a $1500+ RRA. is the cheap wolf ammo worth it in the long run? all help is appreciated. let me know what ammo is the best bang for your buck!

B. Lahey
November 23, 2008, 01:44 AM
I wouldn't mess with it.

Their 154gr SP 7.62x39mm load is not terrible for AKs, and their 9x18mm is acceptable, but their ammo for western chamberings is extremely questionable.

Moerlein
November 23, 2008, 01:45 AM
well if you dont recomment wolf...what brand of ammo do you recommend for cheap backyard plinking/target shooting

NukeCop
November 23, 2008, 06:34 AM
Nothing wrong with wolf! Visit the Ammo Oracle on ar15.com.... It'll give you the lowdown.

It IS loaded a lil on the light side, isn't match grade(for sure:o) but its cheap, and it'll run 98% of the ar15's out there. I suggest buying a few boxes, and giving it a try.

tacweapon
November 24, 2008, 03:23 AM
I have used Wolf in my RA XCR with no problems, it deffiantly is not the most accurate ammo out there, but for just range practice it fill the bill.

Of the cheap ammo I like Silver Bear the best though, I have found that it is a little more accurate and it seems to be loaded a little hotter, to me it is worth the little extra price.

I would just but a box or two of each brand of the cheaper stuff and see which one if any runs the best out of your rifle.

Wildalaska
November 24, 2008, 10:55 AM
Wolf is junk. Keep money on hand for spare parts if you decide to use it.

WildtotalcrapAlaska TM

dakota223
November 26, 2008, 09:13 PM
like i said in a post earlier wolfs the cheapest, I shoot pmc thats about 420 to 500 for a case vances has american eagle ive never shot but they have it for 379.99 a case

TomG160
November 27, 2008, 02:54 PM
Wolf shoots just fine in my Bushmaster. In my experience it has been underpowered. In the same range session picking up spent casings, the wolf casings are 4 to 6 feet closer than everything else I would be using.

Great luck with brown/silver bear ammo though.

dixierifleman
November 27, 2008, 06:10 PM
Wolf is fine. I've been shooting it in all my ARs and AKs for years. Never had many problems. And Wildbutthurtalaska, why would you need to buy new parts? What could it possibly wear out?

Wildalaska
November 27, 2008, 06:20 PM
Never had many problems.

But you have had some, yes?;)

The stuff is crap. I have warned folks here and in person about it. Every tiome I see a blown barrel, blown receiver, torn extractor, stuck case, squib load, broken ejector, bent op rod et sq Wolf has been involved. I laugh inside, penny wise, pound foolish

YMMV, your gun, your money.

WildtandoorimarinadeAlaska

dixierifleman
November 28, 2008, 10:52 AM
I've had problems with all kinds of ammo. Doesn't mean jack.

kymarkh
November 28, 2008, 11:18 AM
Wolf does not run very well in my Bushmaster carbine - it causes short-strokes about 25% of the time. I still run some every once in a while because it's cheap and the tap, rack, bang drills it causes do have some training value to me. I have not had a single malfunction in this carbine with Remington, Winchester or Federal ammo so I'm thinking that the Wolf is just really underpowered. Some of my buds run Wolf exclusively and have no issues so maybe it's just not a good match for my Bushmaster. I've been meaning to try the Silver Bear ammo as an alternative to Wolf but haven't got around to it yet.

PlantBreeder
November 28, 2008, 01:57 PM
I'll pass on what I have heard. Take it for what it's worth.

The main problem with Wolf is the laquer they use on the casing. It can create problems "gumming up" the inside of the gun especially when the gun gets warm. Probably what leads to broken parts etc.

You would probably be all right shooting a few here and there at a time, but I wouldn't shoot more than a five hundred or so and then would need to clean the hell out of your gun before using it again.

I have been using Brown Bear recently and have had good luck with it. It also has a laquer on the casing, but it tends to stay on the casing better than the Wolf ammo.

My information came from a local friend who shoots with LEO's quite often who like to go through a few thousand rounds a session.

Don H
November 28, 2008, 04:22 PM
PB, a lot of Wolf comes with a polymer coating rather than a lacquer coating.

DonR101395
November 28, 2008, 06:41 PM
I've run close to 10K of it through the 6920 I bought from Wildalaska summer before last with no problems. I've run it in two high round count carbine classes without issue. Bushmaster, RRA and a few others with tighter .223 or match chambers don't like it.
A few years ago I wouldn't have run or recommended it in anything except an AK, but times have changed and I have as well. That said it ain't gonna win any accuracy matches, but that's not it's intended purpose.

Just my $.02 YMMV

Mike in VA
November 29, 2008, 09:59 PM
I put a bit (Wolf Military Classic) thru my SIG 556, no problems. As noted, it's not too accurate, but it's find for plinking. I tend to clean my guns after every use, I haven't noticed any unusual fouling. FWIW

gustav129
November 30, 2008, 07:13 PM
I've put 100's of rounds of Wolf (Black Box, 122gr) through my SKS. On other SKS specific forums, I have heard a couple stories involving broken firing pins, punctured primers, and so forth, but only the Wolf Military Classic was involved.

Also, I have had a problem with Winchester 7.62x39mm through my SKS. What that comes down to, American made 7.62 is slightly different. 7.62 NATO is closer to .308 than 7.62x39, so you use american made stuff in american made rifles, like the Ruger Mini-30.

As for the differences between .223 and 5.56 NATO, I'm not sure.

Just throwing out, the idea, of using american made ammo for an american made firearm.

ChristopherG
December 1, 2008, 04:03 AM
I have used cases and cases of the 7.62x54R in my Mosin Nagant. Haven't had any real troubles or gripes as of yet. Pretty good for the cheap price if you're just target shooting for fun.

Dallas Jack
December 2, 2008, 06:11 PM
I've tried Wolf .45 ACP in two 1911's. Both guns which had never failed before would have 6 FTF from a 7 round magazine. Both guns.

I've tried Wolf .223 (poylomer coated, hp's) in a Remington LTR that generally shoots 3/4-1 inch at 100 yards and got 3-4 inch groups and hard extraction. I guess if cost is the driving factor and you aren't in need of a more accurate round, Wolf would do.

I use Wolf M/T .22 lr in my heavy barreled 10/22 and it generally shoots 1/2 (1 1/4-1 1/2 at 100 yards) groups at 50 yards.

Love the M/T .22 lr but I have no use for the other at any price. YMMV
Dallas Jack

B. Lahey
December 2, 2008, 06:20 PM
Love the M/T .22 lr

That's because it's not made by Wolf, they just put their logo on the box.:)

Dallas Jack
December 2, 2008, 06:59 PM
B. Lahey, I suspected as much. The headstamp looks like Lapau.
Dallas Jack

L-2
December 2, 2008, 11:05 PM
http://www.barnaulammunition.com/images/index_03.gif
http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp
http://www.barnaulammunition.com/

I tried some of this Barnaul ammo which seemed to function a bit more reliably in my AR-15. I got an OK price on it when it used to be sold by cheaperthandirt.com, but they no longer seem to be carrying it. Referenced is its chosen supplier/importer, although I've not done business with them.

I really have to pay attention to scrubbing out the chamber when using Wolf ammo in the AR. If I don't, I get cases sticking and not extracting. Apparently it's not the coating, but fouling from gases blowing by the steel casing. At least, that's what I'd read...but I can't remember where I read that!!!

Here it is: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

frankinstine
December 3, 2008, 08:13 PM
Me and my dad shoot almost nothing but wolf ammo through both of our AR 15s and his is a bushmaster. I see nothing wrong with it. We've used more expensive ammo that would work. I think it works great, try it out and see if it works for you.

FireForged
December 4, 2008, 06:49 PM
I would never use Wolf ammo in any rifle other than a AK variant or SKS style rifle. Steel cased, laquered ammo is going to do nothing but cause problems is a AR style rifle.

Unless they offer brass cased un-laqured ammo, I would stay away from it.

frankinstine
December 4, 2008, 07:09 PM
I'm just curious, to the guys who advise agaisn't the wolf ammo, have you tried it?

Wildalaska
December 4, 2008, 07:14 PM
I'm just curious, to the guys who advise agaisn't the wolf ammo, have you tried it?

Naw, I just bad mouth it 'cuz thats my way. What do I know:p

WildjustdisregardeverythingisayAlaska ™

Walther22lr
December 4, 2008, 07:47 PM
I have used Wolf ammo in my AR for many years. No problems at all. I will continue to use it too. :)

Moerlein
December 4, 2008, 08:11 PM
well i started it so heres my results!

i bought 1000 rounds of 62 gr wolf (blackbox stuff) from ammoman.com was delivered within a week, was ordered late tuesday night, they are closed wed. and then with thanksgiving and all, i thought it was pretty fast shipping.

so anyways, to the results. i shot 80 rds today, pretty fast firing. no breaks inbetween. there were NO shortstroking, hard extractions or anything. NO problems at all for me. so i was very pleased.

20 of the 80 rounds were 55 gr military classic wolf. they worked fine as well.

accuracy was a little off, but maybe it was just me or i might not have my scope sighted right, idk. its a 552 eotech, and i was shooting probably 60-70 yards.

so IMO for the average backyard/plinking shooter that will not reload cases and just wants to have fun wolf works great! i paid $279 for 1000 rounds and the cheapest brass was $330-$350. so if a part breaks or something, the way im thinking is i have $50-$70 dollars to fix it. and thats if it breaks on the first case, if it lasts longer im saving even more.

so i loved it, and i will definitley buy more. i have a RRA ar-15

oh, and people talk about lacquer coating, it's now a "polymer" coating, not sure if its a big difference or what. but i didnt have any problems with it.

FireForged
December 5, 2008, 07:07 PM
wikipedia has a nice write up on wolf ammo.. be sure to read the paragraph on potential problems.

Yes I have tried it and yes I had problems. We all know how firearms can almost choose the ammo you feed them. If you use wolf and like it, I am glad.

Sam06
December 6, 2008, 08:37 AM
I don't like Wolf Ammo and here is why:

1. Its made in Russia
2. The money made on the ammo goes to Russia
3. The case is steel, Steel case going into steel chamber= Rapid wear
4. "Oh they coat it with Lacquer" If Lacqure was fire/heat proof Firemen would paint themselves with it. The Lacqure burns off in a hot chamber and coats the chamber or goes into the gas system on an AR. They can call it whatever they want the bottomline is its coated with a meterial that burns off in a hot chamber.
5. I have shot some over a Chronograph through a H&R Handi rifle to see how consistent it was, It was not! Can you believe 100FPS spreads?
6. Did I say you are giving Money to a country that would like to see the US destroyed
7. Ken is correct. I would not shoot that STUFF in anything but a handi rifle and even then I borrowed the gun;)

If you want cheap ammo, Reload. Get a Dillon and you will have 500 rds in about 2 hours and thats if you are taking your time.

skydiver3346
December 6, 2008, 09:26 AM
Wolf? no way when you can purchase the cheaper version of Federal .223 on sale now at Sportsman Warehouse. You want a quality ammo no matter if you are at the range or have to use it someday to defends yourself or family. That is just my opinion. Ammo is not something to have to worry about or wonder if you chose the right brand, etc. Spend a little more and have piece of mind would be my choice.

atrain0311
December 18, 2008, 02:01 PM
I have shot hundreds of rounds of Wolf Ammo without any problems. I clean my rifle after every 200 rds. I see nothing wrong with having a few thousands of rounds in stock in case of a rainy apocolypse. I'd rather have 2000 rds of wolf than 500 rds of Federal...

yosemitesamaz
December 19, 2008, 01:29 AM
if im only going to put around 100 t0 200 hundred rounds and have time to clean my ar i use wolf with no problem. i use wolf for alot of my guns and rifles. but if you just want cheap ammo for plinking they have 100 rnd 223 in brass case by federal at walmart for 40 bucks . i shoot wolf and yest its a dirty round!!! but still shoots fair! and a good price. but i still stock up on rangers when i get the chance. i still havent tried lake city ammo. any one try that? let me know what you think.

yosemitesamaz
December 19, 2008, 01:32 AM
oh yeah you can now get wolf ammo without the lacquer. we just shot of about 1000 rounds yesterday through 2 sks's and a ak. the shoot the same but still dirty.

Jermtheory
December 19, 2008, 02:00 AM
I dont feed my guns junk.

...and no i havent used it(at least not in my own guns)...

Because i dont feed my guns junk.;)

Although,i am a notorious snob because i dont like to skimp on things that go boom right in front of my face(or anything that gos in/on them).

I'll suck it up and by surplus M193 for my plinking.

NineInchNails
December 19, 2008, 02:04 PM
I have 1,000s of rnds of Wolf. I've fired 1,000s of Wolf.

The only problem I can recall happening is a case stuck in the chamber that couldn't extract. The truth be told, I had never cleaned the chamber&bore on that weapon before that instance. I learned a valuable lesson that day. It took a rod to pop that case out. KEEP your weapon clean.

I wouldn't want to stand down range of someone firing Wolf any more than someone firing any other ammo. I know there are differences in the ammo, but if you're stocking up ... get what you can as soon as you can. Better ammo would be ... ideal sure.

One thing I was told with regarding a SHTF scenario:
If you have to fire 1,000 rnds to defend yourself ... and if you are successful; don't you think that you'll have at least something to show for it (other than your life)? Bound to be able to pick up at least 1 weapon, some ammo, a decent optic, etc...

marine0341
December 21, 2008, 07:29 PM
wolf is garbage! A round got stuck in my m-4 upper and had to dissassemble the whole thing to get it out.
Now Only shoot surpluss brass and reload more accurate ammo.

DonR101395
December 21, 2008, 07:52 PM
wolf is garbage! A round got stuck in my m-4 upper and had to dissassemble the whole thing to get it out.
Now Only shoot surpluss brass and reload more accurate ammo.


What brand upper? Most of the commercial 1/9 barrels tend to be on the tight side of chamber dimensions.

imp
December 21, 2008, 11:48 PM
gustav129 wrote:
I've put 100's of rounds of Wolf (Black Box, 122gr) through my SKS. On other SKS specific forums, I have heard a couple stories involving broken firing pins, punctured primers, and so forth, but only the Wolf Military Classic was involved.

Also, I have had a problem with Winchester 7.62x39mm through my SKS. What that comes down to, American made 7.62 is slightly different. 7.62 NATO is closer to .308 than 7.62x39, so you use american made stuff in american made rifles, like the Ruger Mini-30.

As for the differences between .223 and 5.56 NATO, I'm not sure.

Just throwing out, the idea, of using american made ammo for an american made firearm.

7.62x51 is alot different than 7.62x39. Please don't try to use .308 in a mini-14...it would be all bad.:eek:

Also, for some of you shooting 5.56mm wolf...if your rifle is chambered for .223 only, you could be having some of your difficulties there also. The standard 5.56mm is ever so slightly longer, and loaded to a slightly higher pressure. From what i understand, it will fire, but can cause problems.

RockyMtnTactical
December 22, 2008, 10:37 AM
If you want to shoot cheap steel cased ammo, go with bear. Wolf sucks.

NineInchNails
December 22, 2008, 11:02 AM
RockyMtnTactical:
If you want to shoot cheap steel cased ammo, go with bear. Wolf sucks.

Is Bear ammo more consistent or accurate?

Te Anau
December 22, 2008, 04:07 PM
Keep money on hand for spare parts if you decide to use it.
If you're using an AR that is. :p

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
December 23, 2008, 11:47 PM
RELOAD, RELOAD, RELOAD!! You guys are talking about shooting thousands of rounds....If you have the time, then reload. The equipment start-up cost can be high, but over the course of thousands of rounds, it pays for itself. I reload for my RR AR-15 because 1.) I have the time 2.) It is cheaper 3.) I control the quality of the ammunition running through my rifle....not some communist dingleberry half-juiced on cheap vodka. This is of course my own opinion.

Huey Long
December 24, 2008, 12:07 AM
Ignore the ammo snobs. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Wolf for casual plinking. It's practically all I feed my FAL, and I've never had a single problem. The only complaint I have is that It's pretty dirty, but that's what cleaning kits are for.

Huey Long
December 24, 2008, 12:23 AM
3. The case is steel, Steel case going into steel chamber= Rapid wear

There are many different grades of steel and ammunition components are made of much softer steels that the steel of your rifle for rather obvious reasons. Also, Wolf cases are given a thin coating of lacquer or polymer so that there's no direct steel-to-steel contact with the chamber anyway.

The military did a study on steel jackets in WWII and found that they didn't wear out barrels any faster than copper ones. When you consider the fact that a steel jacket is rubbing against your bore hundreds of feet per second faster than a steel case is rubbing against your chamber, it becomes quite obvious that steel cases are not going to bother your chamber.

The bottom line is that steel ammunition components are not any harder on guns than copper or brass ones. It's an urban legend.

Wildalaska
December 24, 2008, 01:45 PM
Ignore the ammo snobs.

I see the ammowoobie is kicking in;)

WildwolfiscrapcrapcrapAlaska ™

marine0341
December 25, 2008, 04:21 AM
I am shooting a bushmaster upper

BuckHammer
December 28, 2008, 04:51 AM
I shoot nothing but wolf 7.62x39 out of my AK and love it. It is the cheapest available, but that's all I'm looking for in AK ammo. Don't expect accuracy with wolf ammo. My AK does alright with it, but does much better with different ammo. Almost like clockwork, one out of every three rounds is way off (6-10 inches off at 100). My friends and I joke about every third round, calling it the "wolf flier". I have no experience with wolf ammo outside of AKs, so I can't really recommend it for anything else. However, I do recommend it for AKs for very cheap plinking fun.

lon371
December 28, 2008, 06:55 AM
From my understanding the biggest difference in the .223 and the 5.56, is the case wall thickness. Outside diameter is nearly the same, but inside is not. There fore when you fire the 5.56 in a .223 you have the stuck case.

Here is a few links that may help you.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?action=search2

Also this is from another reloading forum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some more for what its worth info .

5.56 mm NATO versus .223 Remington
While the 5.56 mm and .223 cartridges are very similar, they are not identical. Military cases are made from thicker brass than commercial cases, which reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. The 5.56 mm chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chambers, have a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Rock River Arms)[1] or the Armalite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm and .223 equally well.

Using commercial .223 cartridges in a 5.56-chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223-chambered gun due to the excessive lead.[2] Using 5.56 mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223-chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[3] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm ammunition.[4]

Good luck
Lonny

Tatsumi67
December 28, 2008, 11:37 AM
Solider of Fortune ran an article about 8 year ago, they put 10,00 Wolf .223s through a high end AR15, with not one misfire or jam.


I'd trust'em

gustav129
December 28, 2008, 10:06 PM
7.62x51 is alot different than 7.62x39. Please don't try to use .308 in a mini-14...it would be all bad
What? You lost me when you quoted me and replied with this.

When did I ever say use a .308 in a Mini-14? And what does a 7.62x51 have to do with a mini-14? Mini-14's shoot .223 or 5.56x45mm.

I was refering to using my Win Whitebox 7.62x39 in a Mini-30 rather than Wolf brand. I was using this as a reference to use American made Ammo in an American made firearm do to slight variances in tolerances, at least in the SKS, AK, and Mini-30.

gobm667
December 30, 2008, 02:36 PM
i had problems with the steel rds. they swelled in my gun and jammed up. i shoot only brass through my dpms ar 15. just my 2 cents