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jlh26oo
November 18, 2008, 03:56 AM
Just how stiff are these, initially and long-term vs. for instance a Beltman horsehide with internal stiffener? And do I want the C.S.M. model or 5-stitch, if I were seeking maximum sturdiness (or is the C.S.M. instructor five stitch anyways)?

Pretty much set on a beltman, but reading alot of rave reviews on the Instructor and at how cheap it is just curious how sturdy they are. Pretty much online only, I'm not finding these in any stores?

Japle
November 18, 2008, 08:33 PM
I'm wearing one of the CSM Instructor belts now. I wear it or one of the CSM Ring belts all the time. I like the extra stiffness. And they stay stiff. Never get soft.

Funny, with belts like that, you have to start them on the right instead of the left. Took me a while to get used to that.

jlh26oo
November 19, 2008, 12:44 AM
I'm wearing one of the CSM Instructor belts now.

THanks Japle, is your C.S.M. also 5-stitch, or are those mutually exclusive options (I.E. you either get C.S.M. OR 5-stitch but not both)?

Sgt.Fathead
November 19, 2008, 12:53 AM
Howsa'bout posting a link for those of us in the dark? :)

jlh26oo
November 19, 2008, 04:24 AM
I should have linked it up in the O.P., sorry about that Sgt. F.H.

http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1186&osCsid=c5tfs7jjvho8s29f8dke6m3ad5


Supposedly just as sturdy as quality dual-layer leather belts. If so, it would be nice to have such an inexpensive option for days when I know leather will be abused (I.E. thorned brush and/or profuse sweating etc). I'm not a fan of doubling the tail back over with velcro, but at least it provides for an infinite number of buckle "holes" across the sizing range vs. traditional buckles with discrete holes 1" or 3/4" apart.

Billy Sparks
November 19, 2008, 08:16 AM
Funny, with belts like that, you have to start them on the right instead of the left. Took me a while to get used to that.

Okay I can be dense but why do you have to do it that way.

rantingredneck
November 19, 2008, 08:36 AM
for instance a Beltman horsehide with internal stiffener

I've got nothing to add on the Wilderness belts, but I will say that with the double layer 1.5" horsehide beltman you will not need an internal stiffener. I've been wearing one without the stiffener now daily for 6 mos or so and I carry some pretty hefty guns with it. Never sags never had a problem. If it were any stiffer it'd be hard to put on.

bofe954
November 19, 2008, 11:48 AM
The wilderness belts are nice, the buckle is pretty heavy and I always debate paying out the big bucks for the Ti buckle.

You can start the belt from the left or right, your preference.

I have the 5 stitch and think it is plenty stiff, but if you are after the stiffest available, get the plastic insert. Brownells carries them, if you get the discount there they are pretty cheap. You see them for sale on the boards now and then and they seem to sell, so pick one up, if you don't like it, sell it.

Japle
November 19, 2008, 12:24 PM
With a regular belt, you start from the left and the tag end goes through the buckle and the first belt loop on your left side. If you're right handed, that leaves a clean section of belt on your right for your holster.

If you start on the left with a Wilderness-type belt, there are two problems.
The velcro loop stuff sewed to the belt is on the right and makes it harder to get your holster on unless it's too loose to start with.
The tag end goes through the buckle and back to the right, sticking to the velcro and getting in the way of the holster. If you're carrying speedloaders, it's even worse.

jlh26oo
November 20, 2008, 02:01 AM
I have the 5 stitch and think it is plenty stiff, but if you are after the stiffest available, get the plastic insert. Brownells carries them, if you get the discount there they are pretty cheap. You see them for sale on the boards now and then and they seem to sell, so pick one up, if you don't like it, sell it.

That's my usual strategy when I can't make up my mind, but I never end up selling the 2nd one, but good idea to look for a used one on the boards, they are cheap enough new anyways and I can justify it on occasions to save the leather. On plastic insert vs. 5-stitch, I still have not figured this out- is it either-or, or when they put the plastic insert in is it ALSO five-stitch? Thanks for the tip on Brownells.



I've got nothing to add on the Wilderness belts, but I will say that with the double layer 1.5" horsehide beltman you will not need an internal stiffener. I've been wearing one without the stiffener now daily for 6 mos or so and I carry some pretty hefty guns with it. Never sags never had a problem. If it were any stiffer it'd be hard to put on.

I'm glad to hear that R.R. because my original choice was bullhide with I.S. vs. horsehide without. I'm moreso adding it for the long-term than I am worried about H.H. not being stiff enough in the first place. I understand H.H. is the B.M.'s stiffest belt, but I have a couple of dual-layer 1.5" cowhide belts that were great initially, and if they stayed as stiff after a couple of years as they were when new, I wouldn't be splurging on a B.M. in the first place. Obviously H.H. is going to outlast C.H. and hopefully by a long time, but all leather breaks down eventually and maybe the synthetic I.S. will help. But difficult to put on does sound promising L.O.L. I've been warned but that's the level I'm looking for. I'm just looking to make sure this one lasts several years, considering the price was getting into BOOT money territory.

Striker071
November 28, 2008, 12:07 AM
Well all I have to say is 5 stars on the Wilderness Instructor belts. I own 3 One black with the black buckle 3 stitch, One Tan 5 stitch titanium buckle and one custom 5 stich belt with velcro all around for my Safariland duty belt. The 5 stitch is stiff I cant imagine a C.S.M. model I got the 5 stitch after buying a 3 stitch.... the 3 stitch works very well but I like the added stiffness of the 5 stitch. I dont think you would be disappointed with a 5 stitch for most CCW situations. The nice thing about the Instructor belt is if you get the right size and you gain or lose a few pounds the belt is pretty forgiving. Compared to a nice leather belt the look is different....but I wear one everyday and I do carry a glock 21 CCW at times... so it can handle a large frame pistol without any problems. Good luck with your decision...

sophijo
November 28, 2008, 11:12 PM
1 1/2" or 1 3/4" ?

arizona98tj
December 5, 2008, 11:59 PM
I went as wide as the holster and belt loops on my pants allowed.

KD5NRH
December 6, 2008, 04:01 AM
I still have not figured this out- is it either-or, or when they put the plastic insert in is it ALSO five-stitch?

I'm curious as well; I like my 5-stitch even when I can't carry, as it keeps flashlight hoisters, etc firmly in place on my left side. I've thought about the CSM, but unless it's as stiff as a 5-stitch in the non-insert areas, it might not meet that need.