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scorpion_tyr
November 11, 2008, 12:43 AM
Never gave it any thought until recently. I'm thinking about getting a suppressor for one of my handguns. I figured it would be interesting to shoot. I don't know anything about them and I just had some questions. Do they increase/decrease accuracy at all? Do I still need to wear hearing protection when I shoot suppressed? What kind should I get? Which of my handguns should I put one on? I have the following:

Bersa Thunder .380
Beretta Px4 Storm 9mm
Taurus PT 92 AFS 9mm
Smith & Wesson Sigma SW40VE .40 S&W
Fabrique National Herstal FNP-40 .40 S&W
Para Ordnance Big Hawg .45 ACP

If none of these will work what's a decent gun to put a suppressor on that won't cost me an arm and a leg?

David Hineline
November 11, 2008, 12:51 AM
Of the guns listed the Taurus 9mm would be the one to go with as the factory barrel is long enough to thread.

The S&W M&P Spec Ops pistol with factory threaded barrel is a heck of a deal. Comes with 3 magazines and either a $50 rebate or 2 more magazines from S&W.

I like the Advanced Armament Evolution 9mm for a silencer.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/specops1.jpg
http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/specops4.jpg

I do not need hearing protection, you will need to shoot subsonic 9mm ammo. My hearing has long since been good, so you might hook up with a local dealer or another shooter and hear one so you know what you are getting.

scorpion_tyr
November 11, 2008, 10:16 PM
I was thinking of getting an M&P anyway, didn't know they made that model. Thanks!

grandmastrblastr
November 11, 2008, 10:32 PM
Do they increase/decrease accuracy at all?
Often times, a silencer will increase the accuracy of a firearm. "How is that possible?" you ask... When the bullet leaves the barrel, the gas is expanding outward (forward) at a faster rate than the bullet. This gas exerts a force on the bullet that causes it to leave its original path. A silencer traps that expanding gas and does not allow it to exert said forces on the bullet. This can be seen more so on rifles than pistols, but same concept. A silencer will affect your Point of Impact, or POI. Say you shoot a group right on the bull at 20 yds... the silencer may shift you POI an inch or so in some direction.

Do I still need to wear hearing protection when I shoot suppressed?
It depends on the silencer. Most 9mm silencers are hearing safe when shot dry and even quieter when shot wet (a capful of water dumped into the silencer). Many .40 and .45 silencers are not hearing safe, even when wet.

What kind should I get?
Someone poster earlier that they like the Advanced Armament Evo 9. I have one too that I use on my Glock 19 and it's friggin awesome.

Which of my handguns should I put one on?
All that being said, I would use one of your 9mm guns as a host. Even using 115 grain supersonic rounds, it's not that loud. 147 grain subsonic rounds are mad quiet... it's like you only hear the slide going back and forth.

David Hineline
November 11, 2008, 11:29 PM
While they are available on the secondary market like gun broker etc. The entire production run of the M+P factory threaded gun went to Sports South. Have your dealer order direct from them as they are the only wholesale source.

cchardwick
November 12, 2008, 12:53 AM
Here's some good info for ya. Got this from OSHA, these are the allowable limits per day:

Noise regulations in several jurisdictions treat impulse noise separately from continuous noise. A common approach is to limit the number of impulses at a given peak pressure over a workday. The exact figures vary slightly, but generally the regulations in which the exchange rate is 5 dB permit 10,000 impulses at a peak pressure level of 120 dB; 1,000 impulses at 130 dB; 100 impulses at 140 dB, and none above 140 dB.

Also, here's a great table of suppressor info:

Silencer Results (http://silencertalk.com/results.htm)

Keep in mind this info is a bit outdated. I just ordered a .223 suppressor that reduces the sound 36db. If you look at the table for .223 unsuppressed it's about 165 db. My suppressor should reduce it to 129 db, which means I can safely shoot it 1000 times a day without hearing protection. Some of the silencers listed don't take it below 140 and you need hearing protection with your 'silencer'! Be sure to do some homework or, in my opinion, your silencer could be virtually worthless and would require hearing protection.

Keep in mind that the decibel scale is logarithmic (base 10), which means that a noise of 100 db is twice as loud as 90 db. 90 is twice as loud as 80 db. (which means 100 db is one hundred times as loud as 80 db!)

Here's an estimate for my Glock 21 .45 ACP (I decided not to get it):

**Some firearms need the LID device to help cycle the weapon. 45s some 9mms. They run about 135.00 for the LID device

**Drop in threaded barrels run from 125.00-205.00

**Will need to get taller sights as well. Front and rear run 90.00-190.00 (night sites are more)

**Gem-Tech Blackside silencers run 585.00 in 45 cal.

**Plus $200 tax stamp

**Plus tax

Plus about five to six months of waiting, background check, passport photos, fingerprints in duplicate, sheriff's signature if you are lucky (and most likely a call from the sheriff asking you why you want a silencer), a bunch of paperwork in duplicate, payment up front as soon as you initiate the paperwork, etc..(you get the idea).

GE-Minigun
November 12, 2008, 09:41 AM
...Many .40 and .45 silencers are not hearing safe, even when wet.

Don't know much about ballistics, huh? There aren’t many .45 ACP rounds that are ABOVE the threshold of 1125ft/sec (speed of sound), with that said they aren’t many 9mm that are BELOW that number, so that statement is false. Every pistol I’ve ever shot with a suppressor the 45 has by far been the quietest and the 9mm the loudest, for the quietest get the 45. As for what manufacture to get I can’t help you, I have two cans for the 45, one is a SWR HEMS2 45 for my H&K and the other was made by a dealer for my MAC. The dealer made can “Hollywood” quiet and that’s against Gemtech, AAC and SWR that 3 to 4 times the price, it’s not the best looking thing but damn it’s quiet.

grandmastrblastr
November 12, 2008, 03:15 PM
Don't know much about ballistics, huh? There aren’t many .45 ACP rounds that are ABOVE the threshold of 1125ft/sec (speed of sound), with that said they aren’t many 9mm that are BELOW that number, so that statement is false. Every pistol I’ve ever shot with a suppressor the 45 has by far been the quietest and the 9mm the loudest, for the quietest get the 45.

The supersonic crack is not what damages the hearing. It's the muzzle blast. Most .45 cans cannot keep the muzzle blast below 140dB because in order to do that, the volume of the silencer would be huge. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thank you sir.

GE-Minigun
November 12, 2008, 03:28 PM
So what you’re saying…since most 9mm cans are smaller than 45 cans the 9mm has to be louder…after all they don’t have the volume of the 45. Am I correct?

PTK
November 12, 2008, 05:04 PM
GE-Minigun, seriously? Back off. You're wrong.

It is very well known through the industry that .45ACP is difficult to properly suppress, even though it's subsonic. The 9mm, being ~.355", can have a ~.400" bore, thus trapping gas for a longer time. The smallest bore on a .45ACP I've seen is ~.490", and it was STILL loud. To properly suppress a .45ACP, you need significantly more volume to capture more gas for a longer time - something rather impractical in a pistol-hosted silencer.

The BEST .45ACP can is still louder dry than some of the lousiest 9mm cans - wet, the 9mm STILL wins with subsonic ammo (which most people will use when using a silenced 9mm)

VUPDblue
November 12, 2008, 05:32 PM
PTK is right on the mark. The absolute quietest suppressed centerfire pistol rig I have ever used included the SWR Trident9 suppressor. 45's just don't suppress as well as a 9. That is fact.

scorpion_tyr
November 13, 2008, 12:26 AM
Thanks for all the info guys! Just one more question if I may: What's the difference in stopping power of subsonic vs supersonic 9mm? I only ask out of curiousity. I think even in the most clear cut case of self defense I would have a lot of questions to answer as to why I had/used a suppressor and subsonic ammo. I don't plan on using the suppressor on my home defense weapon(s).

David Hineline
November 13, 2008, 01:15 AM
You have the sound reduction device because your hearing is important to you even when defending your family.

Loosley comparing 9mm ammo the 115 grain supersonic ammo will expand more and tend to do more temporary wound channel.

147grain subsonic ammo will ten to penetrate more and carry it's energy to the target at longer distances.

The amount of energy from the ammo will be the same, neither is a reduced loading.

So for shooting meat pick a 147gr bullet with good expansion qualities to limit it's penetration, and 147gr FMJ for windshileds.

PTK
November 13, 2008, 01:45 AM
I don't plan on using the suppressor on my home defense weapon(s).

Why not? Isn't your hearing while defending your life kind of important? My HD AR-15 wears a silencer whenever I'm home, as does the HD Glock 17.

scorpion_tyr
November 13, 2008, 02:07 AM
I stand corrected... from working around running jet engines for years my hearing is already starting to go and I would hate to lose the rest of it by unloading in a hallway. The only other reason I wouldn't use a suppressor in HD situation is because a gunshot can be a great call for help. Neighbors would call the cops if I had not yet had the chance. Guess I'll keep one suppressed and one not for whatever the situation warrants. I'm a big fan of the boy scout motto. Thanks a lot for the info... very nice.

mike21603
December 27, 2008, 02:12 PM
**Will need to get taller sights as well

where can you find these type of sights. I'm looking for sights for my beretta 92.

usnavdoc
December 29, 2008, 07:55 PM
Plus about five to six months of waiting, background check, passport photos, fingerprints in duplicate, sheriff's signature if you are lucky (and most likely a call from the sheriff asking you why you want a silencer), a bunch of paperwork in duplicate, payment up front as soon as you initiate the paperwork, etc..(you get the idea).

So what is an appropriate answer for why you want one when the sheriff gives you a call? I dont suppose they are cool as **** is gonna fly...lol

MGRacer
December 29, 2008, 08:58 PM
So what is an appropriate answer for why you want one when the sheriff gives you a call? I dont suppose they are cool as **** is gonna fly...lol

Noise reduction (like a muffler on a car), hearing protection (typically better than ear muffs), ... all lawful purposes.

grandmastrblastr
December 29, 2008, 09:40 PM
or you can form a trust and bypass the photo, fingerprings, and CLEO signature.

usnavdoc
December 30, 2008, 09:58 AM
Explain this trust thing to me. That is what someone at the gunshop mentioned but he said I would have to come back and talk to another individual that mostly deals with those sales.

aroundlsu
December 30, 2008, 12:31 PM
When my Sheriff asks why I need it I either say "collecting" or "training and competition" depending on what I'm trying to buy. When dropping off the Form 4 or 1, I'll also include a cover letter to the Sheriff listing my past training and firearms qualifications, any future classes or matches I have planned, an invitation to sample the weapons when I get them in, along with a copy of my CCW permit and drivers license. It's worked for me but they've never taken me up on my offer to sample the toys. YMMV