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ramm11
November 9, 2008, 02:59 PM
I have a pump 22 L. I heve no idea how old it is. The gun looks great. The only markings on are FABRIQUE NATIONALE DARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL
HELGIQUE. BROWNING'S PATENT DEPOSE. There are two symbols of a King and Queens Crown and the serial #17362. The gun has been in the family for many many years. I've been to a few web sites, but no luck. Could someone please tell me how old it is? Thank You

Tom2
November 9, 2008, 06:26 PM
Well it might be possibly...An FN Browning trombone pump action .22 repeater? IF you can go to the U.S. patent office website and pull up the drawings of patent no. 1,424,553 and see if it resembles your rifle, it might be on the mark. Said to not be commonly seen in the US. This gun was patented in 1922. Or just post a picture in the forum above this one called Harley Noldens institute..etc.

ramm11
November 9, 2008, 07:58 PM
most of the pictures I have seen have a hammer on the top of the gun.This gun has no hammer and I have yet to see a picture like it. When I figure out how to post a picture on this site I will do so. Please forgive my ignorance but I'm not too computer friendly. There are also 2 or 3 markings that I can not discribe on the side of the barrel. This is a short gun, on the left side there is a large screw head just above the trigger.

ramm11
November 9, 2008, 08:14 PM
went too the website you offered, no pictures of this gun were available. Thank you for replying

Tom2
November 9, 2008, 08:18 PM
OK, here is the patent drawing of the Browning rifle I looked at, attached to the post. Open it and tell me if it looks anything like that.

22-rimfire
November 9, 2008, 08:21 PM
Tom you're a good man to have around.

ramm11
November 9, 2008, 08:28 PM
Tom you're too sober. I went to the site and found no pictures. Thank YOU, Yes this looks like my gun. Do you know how old it might be?

ramm11
November 9, 2008, 08:36 PM
I just finished reading ALL of your post you figure it was 1922?

22-rimfire
November 9, 2008, 08:47 PM
According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, there were approx 150,000 of these manufactured. 1922 is the patent date, not a production date. Production extended for some sets until 1985. So the date could vary quite a bit. The book said that the FN barrel address is the most common. The symbols are proof marks.

ramm11
November 9, 2008, 09:03 PM
The gun belonged to my Grandpa, I'm now 36. What kind of marks should i look for? OK, I'll do my best. On the bottom of the barrel onto just above the trigger ther are markings it goes like this .22L the next symbol looks like 2 guns crossed/RV Kings Crown/R *C Queens Crown in a circle with E/LG 2 guns crossed/PV *C with an arrow. The only numbers are 17362

22-rimfire
November 9, 2008, 09:14 PM
I don't know my proof marks. But the crown with the PV below is "Superior nitro proof", the crown with R below is "rifled arms defense for smokeless proof parabellum pistols, the ELG means definitive black powder proof for breech loading guns, small bore guns and handguns....... these are all Belgian proof marks. I'm looking at a Blue Book for reference.

Maybe someone who is has access to Browning serial numbers and production dates may be able to trace the serial number to a year or approx. year. The serial number is what to pay attention to at this point. The Blue Book has a lot of Browning serial number reference stuff, but not for the Trombone model.

Here is a reference for serial numbers. http://proofhouse.com/browning/

I don't think this link will help you much other than dating it between 1922 and 1974 and pre-1958.

Tom2
November 10, 2008, 06:22 AM
Yes, OK, when you go to the patent office, you can easily search for patents by number but to see the pictures etc. you need to download a free program to see their stuff. Weird but easy enough to do. I forget what thefiles are called. But any patent number you can find on an old gun item, go to the patent office and you can call it right up on there once you get the governments program to see the stuff. By the way I am not a genius, or an expert in Browning guns, I just happened to notice the right notation in a Wikipedia entry when doing a search for Browning .22 pump action rifle or such.

tomgun
November 10, 2008, 06:52 AM
http://www.answers.com/topic/groupe-herstal-s-a
Browning and FN Herstal now began to work closely together, with FN Herstal producing an initial order of 10,000 shotguns. These were sold by Browning within a year, leading Remington to pick up on the design as well. Nevertheless, Browning's closest ties where with FN Herstal, and by 1907 Browning had agreed to allow the Belgian company to manufacture arms using his name. Among the arms produced by the FN Herstal-Browning team in this period were a 9mm military semi-automatic pistol in 1903; a pocket-sized .25 caliber semi-automatic in 1905, and a semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle in 1914. In that year, Browning received the Order of the Knighthood from the Belgian throne in recognition of his contribution to the Belgian company's growing worldwide reputation. The company received more dubious distinction as the maker of the automatic handgun used in the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, setting off World War I.

if there is no letters with the ser there is no dating available

ramm11
November 11, 2008, 12:09 AM
Thank you once again, I double checked the ser # and no there is no letters, just numbers. I thank you for all of your help. I will try to go over the gun again and let you know if I find anything different, also I will try to contact Browning first hand. This is a little mystery to me and I would like to find out the answer. I will keep u posted

Bud Helms
November 11, 2008, 06:14 AM
ramm11, if and when you get back to this topic, look for it in the Firearms Research forum. I will leave a permanent redirect here in General.

jbrown
November 11, 2008, 06:51 AM
ram 11-
if you can email pics to me,I can post them here for you.

ramm11
November 11, 2008, 07:00 PM
Sure soon as I get a chance and ask my wife to show me how I will send them A>S>A>P. Thank you to all for your help and comments. This is truly a great site.

21CFA
November 12, 2008, 06:07 PM
Now this series of comments is what makes the site worthwhile. I'll never see that gun, but the support a guy gets just by being curious is gratifying. Amazing.

ramm11
November 12, 2008, 10:51 PM
:)OK GUY'S, I SENT THE PICTURES TO MR. JBROWN VIA E-MAIL. I AGAIN WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF U WHO HAVE RESPONDED TO MY CRY 4 HELP. I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO MR. JBROWN TO POST THE 9 PICTURES I TOOK OF THE GUN, AND YES MY WIFE SENT THE E-MAIL.:(:o THANK U FOR HELPING ME AND FOR LISTENING OR READING MY QUESTION I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM U ALL. HAVE A GREAT EVENING I WILL CHAT SOON.

Tom2
November 14, 2008, 06:11 PM
Peekcher peekchur, where am da peekchur? :confused:

ramm11
November 15, 2008, 11:06 AM
HI guy's just wondering if there is a forum here were Mr.jbrown would have posted the pictures? I have saved them so if there is a place here to post them please let me know and I will post them asap. Thank you

jbrown
November 22, 2008, 06:24 PM
Sorry,I wasnt able to figure out which forum this thread was from or what the owners handle was .here are the pics.This sight only lets you post 6 pics at once,so i have to make two posts to get them all up.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_229.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=229.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_228.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=228.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_227.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=227.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_226.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=226.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_225.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=225.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_224.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=224.jpg)

jbrown
November 22, 2008, 06:27 PM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_221.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=221.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_222.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=222.jpg)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/th_223.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/joelbrown_01/for%20sale/?action=view&current=223.jpg)

Tom2
November 22, 2008, 06:42 PM
Yes it appears to be the gun in the patent drawing to me. I went to the photobucket deal and there were also pictures of an old Winchester 94 rifle at the end for some reason. As for your gun, I suppose some kind of Browning collectors website might be able to define a year or something, from the serial number, if not FN or Browning themselves. That is to esoteric for me, to buy expensive books on FN firearms.

ramm11
November 29, 2008, 04:49 PM
k guy's thank you for all youre help. NOW the next part I have come across a little hand gun, it was found in the floor of a house we purchased a while ago. The box of bullets say's its a 32. I'm forwarding a few pictures could you please help me AGAIN with the age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANK YOU

Tom2
November 29, 2008, 07:42 PM
I would open a new thread on that so that you get more attention to the post if I were you. Many people might miss your post at the end of this thread.

jbrown
December 7, 2008, 03:54 AM
I never saw any pics to put up here,either