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johnwilliamson062
November 2, 2008, 09:46 PM
I am having all my rifles threaded.
I am getting a suppressor for my .22s
The highest pressure one I have is a 22-250 bolt gun and a mini14 is highest rate of fire(semi-auto).

Where can I get a 22-250 suppressor? The few models I was looking at for .223 seem to not be able to handle the pressure(have some sort of disclaimer) and the only one I have found for 22-250 is carbon fiber and 1k. Not ruling out spending that much, but would prefer to avoid it.

dmickey
November 2, 2008, 10:01 PM
A pair of good hearing protectors would be a whole lot cheaper!! :eek:

VUPDblue
November 3, 2008, 09:25 AM
Which ever .223 can you like should be able to handle the pressure of the .22-250. Best to call the mfgr. and ask. I've seen plenty of .223/5.56 cans on the '250's.

fisherman66
November 3, 2008, 09:48 AM
FYI, you are going to have a very hard time getting rid of the sonic boom.

When I win the lottery, I'll get a .45ACP or one of the whisper rounds that send a pretty big chunk of lead subsonic in a carbine with a suppressor to really gain a benefit.

I'm in no way trying to sway you away from your project.

David Hineline
November 3, 2008, 12:09 PM
Any of the AAC .223 product line can handle 22-250. I would forget silencing the Ruger Mini 14 as it is one of the worst silencer hosts made. I would suggest getting a 308 silencer and using it on all your calibers smaller than 30 bore.

RAnb
November 3, 2008, 09:13 PM
Fisherman66, it is very easy to get rid of the sonic boom, just use subsonic ammo. Handloading makes it a snap. Just need a faster twist to stablize the heavier bullets. The sonic boom does not bother me when shooting my ar-15 suppresssed as long as I am not under a roof.

You do not need to win the lottery to suppress. My silencers just cost $20-30 plus tax. Of course the lathe and other tools set me back about $2000. Making a few cans put me in the black though. :)

Ranb

PTK
November 3, 2008, 09:42 PM
I want you all to read this very carefully...

The sonic boom is VERY TINY.

A 180gr .308" bullet from my 30-06, going ~2700FPS... and it sounds like a .22lr.

Most of what bugs people while shooting is the muzzle blast - even just getting rid of the muzzle blast is VERY, VERY helpful.

The sonic boom on my PLR-16 .223 is a joke - barely anything at all, sounds like someone downrange (the noise is reflected) dropped a book on concrete.

fisherman66
November 4, 2008, 12:21 AM
I read and reread to make sure I did it carefully.

Sounds good to me. I'd still prefer to rainbow something subsonic, but apparently I have overestimated the effect of the boom.

RAnb, are you making an offer? I don't like the idea of having to pay a tax to lessen the noise pollution. Kinda ticks me off how dumb Unc Sam can be.

johnwilliamson062
November 4, 2008, 08:45 AM
I would suggest getting a 308 silencer and using it on all your calibers smaller than 30 bore.

Now here is an interesting idea. I know the diameter of the bullet does not need to fit the suppressor perfectly, but I had assumed 30 cal was enough of a difference to where the suppressor would have little effect.

PTK
November 4, 2008, 11:31 AM
Oh, no. I use a 30-cal silencer on my .223, .30-06, .22 Hornet, etc... though I do also use a .223 silencer for .223. The difference isn't too much at all, as the volume of the .30 cal silencer is significantly larger - there's just more room for the gas to expand, so the slightly larger bore size is negated for the most part. :)

RAnb
November 4, 2008, 06:59 PM
fisherman66, not really. I can show you how to make a can, but I can not make one for you. The person who's name is on the ATF form 1 has to be the one who makes it. But you can obtain help, like using someone else's lathe. If I was to make one for you, I would have to pay the $200 tax, make it, send it to a dealer in my state who would sell it to you at cost plus labor plus my tax, then you pay another $200 tax. My silencers are not worth the $400 in taxes alone.

They are fun to make though. You might want to try it sometime.

Ranb

fisherman66
November 5, 2008, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the offer to help. I don't have access to metal working tool nor the desire to pay that stupid tax to reduce noise pollution. Again, thanks for the offer.

cspit
November 29, 2008, 11:53 AM
Hi i'm new to this forum and live in Ontario I would like to know why
you need a silencer.
I shoot a Ruger #1v in 22-250

Legion2600
November 29, 2008, 06:18 PM
Hi i'm new to this forum and live in Ontario I would like to know why
you need a silencer.

Good question. I thought only assasins and the mafia used silencers.

RAnb
November 29, 2008, 07:55 PM
I can't understand why people who say "why you need a silencer" or "only assasins (sic) and the mafia used silencers" do not understand that they are being rude. I need a silencer for the same reason I need the other guns in my safe; to enhance my firearms collection. Very simple.

People use silencers for the same reason they use mufflers on cars. They reduce noise pollution and prevent hearing loss. Even a mediocre silencer can reduce noise by 20 decibels, this is equal to a 99% reduction in sound intensity. Even with this noise reduction, it is rare to have a lethal firearm that is less than 115 decibels, in other words they are not actually silent. The word silencer is a legal term used by the American government and a marketing gimmick coined by Maxim over 100 years ago.

Ranb

cspit
November 29, 2008, 09:30 PM
I did not mean it to be rude Here in Canada we use ear plugs
Now for deer there is not a lot of shooting but for hogs I would
use ear plugs.
Sorry if you thought it was rude

RAnb
November 29, 2008, 09:59 PM
I normally use ear plugs when shooting as I usually shoot near others or am shooting in WA State where use of the silencers I make is prohibited. Ear plugs are absolutely useless when it comes to reducing noise pollution near a rifle range.

Ranb

PTK
November 30, 2008, 02:06 AM
A silenced 30-06 sounds like a .22lr instead of a cannon going off next to my head. That alone should be enough reason to allow silencers. :)

cspit
November 30, 2008, 08:29 AM
If you say so. I shoot benchrest and I use Bull's eye 6 Shotgunner
and don't have any trouble
(ear plug might be miss leading. What I use are muffs)
I use plugs on my bike
I do have to hold them away from my ear before we shoot so I can hear the range officer and his blow horn. :)

birdshot
November 30, 2008, 10:10 AM
What kind of accuracy do you expect to get with the silencer? The only silenced rifle i have ever shot was a 22lr. Quiter than a pellet rifle but the groups opened up to about 5 inch at 50 yrds. Without the silencer, the rifle was shooting about an inch at 50 yards.

RAnb
November 30, 2008, 04:56 PM
Since I am not shooting benchrest rifles, the silencers I use don't noticably reduce accuracy unless something is wrong.

It sounds as if the silencer you were using caused baffle strikes. I have a 22lr can that caused baffle strikes and changed the point of impact by two feet at 25 yards. It normally had no effect on accuracy and was repaired by repairing the seating surface of the barrel adaptor. Alignment is critical to say the least.

My ar-15's accuracy does not degrade, but point of impact changes a bit. My 510 whisper has a large 2"x18" can that changes point of impact several inches at 100 yards, but all I have to do is adjust the scope to put it back on the bullseye.

Ranb

VUPDblue
December 1, 2008, 01:08 PM
You can expect the POI to shift some, but most suppressors actually aid in accuracy. I'd say that if one is opening up groups that wide, it probably isn't attached properly.

defcon-1
November 12, 2009, 04:28 PM
i just sold one to a customer, works great.

Texas Man
November 26, 2009, 02:37 PM
I would like to clarify something. Proper term for a suppressor is supressor not silencer its suppesor. Its that way because it doesnt muffle all of the inner-workings, just the muzzle blast.

Jim Watson
November 26, 2009, 03:43 PM
In 1909 when Hiram Maxim put the first modern baffle-type mufflers on a gun barrel, he called them "silencers" and incorporated the Maxim Silencer Company, Hartford, CT. "Supressor" is modernist jargon.

Accuracy: I have seen supressed .308s being shot at 1000 yards. Accuracy was comparable to my straight barrelled rifle. Noise level was still high enough that ear protection was needed. Remember, even though the muzzle blast is advertised to be brought down to .22 level, that is still well over 100 dB. The whistle as the "can" depressurizes from trapped powder gas is distinctive.

Shock wave: I don't know if it is the muzzle blast from 1000 yards or the shock wave as the bullet passes over, but I definitely want ear protection in the target pits of a formal range.

V.Hunter
November 26, 2009, 09:27 PM
You do not need to win the lottery to suppress. My silencers just cost $20-30 plus tax. Of course the lathe and other tools set me back about $2000. Making a few cans put me in the black though.

I am sure the ATF would have a field day with this thread as I am all but positive unless licensed it is not only illegal to possess but also manufacture them. If I am wrong in my thinking please let me know. As far as I know you must apply for a permit and go through a background check, to boot they are not actually legal in all states.

I may be wrong but the last time I inquired about one you have to apply for a permit and pay a no-refundable fee just to be considered.

I'm not giving anyone grief for doing what they want simply stating that they may want to refrain from posting it on the internet.

James K
November 26, 2009, 10:05 PM
You don't need a license to make or own a suppressor. You do need to file an application to make or purchase one and pay a tax ($200). Only if you make them for sale or deal in them do you need a license. Nothing in this thread mentions doing anything illegal, at least under federal law.

Three comments, though.

First, why would anyone buy a .22-250 and then load subsonic rounds to use a suppressor?

Second, the sonic "crack" is not usually very noticeable from the firing line. As pointed out, it is quite noticeable and distinctive when down range or in the pits. The "crack" is exactly the same as the "sonic boom" experienced from jet aircraft and the cause is the same, though obviously less as the bullet is smaller than a jet plane.

Third, the Maxim silencer really was a silencer. When a Model 1903 rifle is fired with the Maxim silencer, the firing pin click can be heard. With no other significant sound, the sonic crack becomes much more noticeable.

FWIW, I have no idea what a Maxim silencer would cost to make, but it would be a lot more than the cans curently being made. If in doubt, look at the patent, which has been widely printed.

Jim

johnwilliamson062
November 27, 2009, 02:05 AM
Just so everyone knows, this is yet another project I have not yet found the funs to follow through with yet, although it is still on the list.

One of the main reasons to get one is not for yourself or those shooting with you, but the peron who lives 300 yards away and is trying to take a nap on their couch with windows open when you are shooting on your home range.
The suppressor will dull the sound along with lowering its intensity.

Willie Lowman
November 27, 2009, 11:03 AM
Ahh, suppressors...


Nothing works faster to get Fuds lined up to show how little they know about the National Firearms Act and demand to know why anyone would want to lower the decibels of a high powered rifle.

VUPDblue
December 1, 2009, 09:34 AM
heh, ain't that the truth...

Skans
December 1, 2009, 05:00 PM
Maybe we can get some hippy-dippy types to get on our side of the suppressor issue. Noise polution - you'd think that the general population would get behind folks using muflers on their guns. In fact, I'm surprised that the antis haven't made the addition of an internal sound baffle a requirement on all guns

Aren't these the same folks that want cops to arrest Harley riders who run straight pipes???

RAnb
December 1, 2009, 07:23 PM
I am sure the ATF would have a field day with this thread as I am all but positive unless licensed it is not only illegal to possess but also manufacture them. If I am wrong in my thinking please let me know. As far as I know you must apply for a permit and go through a background check, to boot they are not actually legal in all states.

I may be wrong but the last time I inquired about one you have to apply for a permit and pay a no-refundable fee just to be considered.

I'm not giving anyone grief for doing what they want simply stating that they may want to refrain from posting it on the internet.

I do not know where you are getting your ideas from on gun law, but unless you are talking to a lawyer that is experienced in NFA law or actually reading the law yourself, then you really doing yourself a disservice in remaining so ignorant and posting about it here. Is it really too much to take a brief look at the ATF regulations before telling us about permits and licenses that do not exist?

Twice I referred to a tax and ATF authorization in my posts above, did this not clue you in? Where is this license and permit stuff coming from anyway? How are you promoting gun ownership by posting this stuff? Your claim of an “ATF field day” and “not giving anyone grief” are contradictory. Frankly I feel insulted every time I see someone suggesting that I am not obeying the law.

Here is how you get authorization to make, buy or sell a title 2 weapon. Obtain the ATF form 1 (to make) or ATF form 4 (to buy) from the internet or free from the ATF. Fill it out in duplicate, attach your photos and finger print cards. Obtain the local sheriff’s (judge, DA) signature. Send it in with form 5330.20 and a check for $200. The ATF approves it within about 4 months now if it is all filled out correctly. If there is a problem, then you get a refund or a form showing what needs to be fixed before approval.

Here is an example of an ATF form 1.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/atf1front.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/atf1back.jpg

There is no license to merely buy, sell, make, own or inherit a title 2 weapon. The only ones who need a license are those who import, manufacture or deal in title 2 weapons as a business. This is the FFL and SOT class 1, 2 or 3.

Ranb

RAnb
December 1, 2009, 07:33 PM
I would like to clarify something. Proper term for a suppressor is supressor not silencer its suppesor. Its that way because it doesnt muffle all of the inner-workings, just the muzzle blast.

Texas man, do you have some authoritative source for your claim? US law describes suppressors as mufflers or silencers; the word suppressor is not mentioned at all. Suppressor is a relatively term even if it is more accurate at describing what they do.

I prefer to use the word silencer as no one is likely to think I am talking about a flash suppressor when describing my gun mufflers.

Ranb

RAnb
December 1, 2009, 07:42 PM
First, why would anyone buy a .22-250 and then load subsonic rounds to use a suppressor?

I can tell you why a person would buy a 308 Winchester then use it to shoot subsonic ammo. Versatility. If you have a 1-10 twist in your 308, then it will perform well with any bullet that is 200 grains and lighter even subsonic. 1-8 twist is needed for greater than 200 grains subsonic. While the 22-250 example is a bit less likely to be used (in my opinion), it is not totally useless. :)

Some people do not want or need a dedicated subsonic rifle; they would rather adjust the scope or hold over for those rare times when they sacrifice range for stealth. It can be difficult to hit a target at more than 200 yards when subsonic.

I have a 1-12 twist suppressed 308 target rifle. I would not even bother to use subsonic ammo in it as I would have to shoot 150 grain to keep it from yawing. I have suppressed 300 and 338 whispers that are much better than any 1-10 or 1-12 twist .308 win when subsonic.

Ranb