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View Full Version : 1858 NMA with R&D cylinder, painfull to watch


noelf2
October 22, 2008, 07:07 PM
What's he doing wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC63aX4SoWk

Raider2000
October 22, 2008, 07:29 PM
Should I Number the stuf they did wrong or just the one thing you should never do?

NEVER PLACE ANY BODY PART IN FRONT OF THE CYLINDER WHILE COCKING THE WEAPON!!!

w_houle
October 22, 2008, 07:58 PM
NEVER PLACE ANY BODY PART IN FRONT OF THE CYLINDER WHILE COCKING THE WEAPON!!!
The only thing I see wrong besides this is complacency. Well, that and it would be easier to put the cylinder in from the other side.

noelf2
October 22, 2008, 08:17 PM
Yep, you see how he wraps his hands around the cylinder between shots 1 and 2? Also, he loaded the whole cylinder. Even at the range, I don't do that. Always center the hammer on an empty chamber when there's no safety. Cap and ball cylinder has a safety notch between each chamber, so you can load all 6 on them.

Also, do you see how he struggles getting the cylinder in? He's loading it from the wrong side and forcing it onto the hand. He'll probably damage the hand, and he's surely going to scratch up the cylinder. You can load a Kirst cylinder from that side, but not as easy with an R&D. I don't know if he could make that process look more difficult.

I cracked up when I saw his target at the end of the video. Maybe I'm being a bit critical, granted, but no way did he get that group the way he was shooting. Unless the target was 10' or less away.

zippy13
October 22, 2008, 08:30 PM
The hammer's down while trying to change the cylinder? But, perhaps that the way to do it from the left side. ;)

bobotech
October 22, 2008, 11:24 PM
He loaded 6 rounds instead of 5.

The hand in front of the cylinder.

Loading the cylinder from the wrong side.

I got a R&D cylinder from someone for 50 bux a few months ago. I then got the Uberti pistol a month later. :) Still haven't shot it though, it isn't in perfect time and I need someone to work it over a bit.

Smokin_Gun
October 23, 2008, 02:16 AM
He loaded 6 rounds instead of 5.

Well the R&D does hold six I don't think you'd call that wrong in a sixgun.

Unless 'ur not simply a Black Powder Shooter, and are at a CAS event bein' a CAS shooter. That's a Rule not wrong... :O)

SG

noelf2
October 23, 2008, 07:02 AM
bobotech - It shouldn't be out of time if R&D made it for a Uberti. Are you sure it isn't made for a Pietta replica? I know it can be out of time, but that's not usual. Anyway, the price you paid for it makes it worth a trip to the gunsmith..!!

Smokin - Agree with you there, but R&D sort of made it a rule for safety reasons. Says so on their site:

Always let the hammer fully down on an EMPTY chamber! In six shot conversion units, load only five rounds and let the hammer fully down on the EMPTY sixth chamber. In five shot ‘Pocket Model” conversion units, load only four rounds and let the hammer down on the EMPTY fifth chamber.

They also say that the 1860 conversion has safety stops between chambers so it would be ok for CAS, but they "strongly recommend" that you still set the hammer down on an empty chamber for any other use.

I see loading all six the same as having a round in the tube in a autoloader, with the hammer back. If you drop it, it could very well go bang. I never plan to drop my gun, but I acknowledge that I could. Besides, loading 5 makes it easier to keep count. I get 10 cylinder loads to a box of 50 rounds.;)

60's Refugee
October 23, 2008, 08:33 AM
I use an R&D in my Pietta. My R&D has no safety notches! Therefore, though I can rest the hammer between firing pins, its not "locked in" like a BP cylinder. But, being experianced as I am, I usually load all six when out plinking but at shoots using the conversion I will load 5 if required.

If the weapon were loaded BP I'd suggest he was wrong putting his hand in front of the cylinder. With the R&D this is not an issue. I cock and fire with only one hand so I can't get mine in front of the cylinder anyhow.

It is easier and probably safer to swap the cylinder with the weapon on half cock. The shooter in the video seems to forget that. I load mine in from the right side but it is difficult to line the thing up the first try so it slides around until the pin hits the hole.

The shot group must have been at ten feet like you said!:) Even with a shoulder stock I can't get a group like that even at 30 feet. Further, I find that, in my experiance, the .45 LC doesn't group as tight as BP loads will.

I often use the same brand of ammo he does. It's "Ten-X" cowboy ammo. Available in loads from 165 thru 250 grain and IMHO the higher loads should be avoided in this conversion. I use the 200 gr loads.

Sorry guys, I really didn't see this guy doing all that much wrong.

Harry

noelf2
October 23, 2008, 09:25 AM
If the weapon were loaded BP I'd suggest he was wrong putting his hand in front of the cylinder. With the R&D this is not an issue.

I'll submit that it's a bad idea to put your hand around it even with the R&D. There's no safety. If that hammer falls, you will get burned by the gases at the barrel cylinder gap. Definitely an issue...:confused:

You are right in that the cap and ball are more accurate once you work up the right load for your gun. I can hold a tight group at 20 - 25 yards (3" circle with the occasional flyer), but not with store bought cowboy action smokeless loads. I get better results with my own black powder cartridges, but still not as good as the cap and ball.

I timed myself last night swapping cylinders. I can do the "Pale Rider" in 7 seconds. The guy in the video just isn't that experienced yet. He could use some pointers before he makes a video.

Hawg
October 23, 2008, 07:36 PM
A 58 cylinder will easily install from either side. The trick is to pull the hammer back just far enough to clear it. The hand and bolt are both retracted at this point. Easiest way is with the hammer down put the cylinder in until it stops. Ease the hammer back until it falls into place.

Raider2000
October 23, 2008, 08:13 PM
I do the same style of swapping cylinders in my Pietta '58, just I do it from the right side so that I don't need to switch hands.

bobotech
October 23, 2008, 08:43 PM
bobotech - It shouldn't be out of time if R&D made it for a Uberti. Are you sure it isn't made for a Pietta replica? I know it can be out of time, but that's not usual. Anyway, the price you paid for it makes it worth a trip to the gunsmith..!!

Yup. Awesome deal.

Yes, it is for a Uberti. It will not fit at all in my Pietta 1858 but fits fine in my Uberti perfectly. I bought the pistol with only about 50 rounds shot though it for 150 bux too!

So for 200 dollars total, I have a cap and ball with a conversion cylinder.

Anyway, when I cock it rather quickly, the cylinder has a tendency not to "click" into place and will be off a hair.

If I gently nudge the cylinder, it then "clicks" into place and is fine. Happens about 1 out of 4 cocks and isn't repeatable on the same bore hole.

I can shoot it, but I won't let others shoot it and I have to be careful.

I have been thinking about letting Steve's Guns take it for a month or two to get worked over and slicked up. Would cost about 150 dollars or so.

Raider2000
October 23, 2008, 09:37 PM
bobotech
2 Questions:
So you're saying that the R&D cylinder will not go into the frame of a Pietta or is a sloppy loose fit.

My second question to you is:
Does the Percussion cylinder react the same way or is it's lock up perfect?

bobotech
October 23, 2008, 11:05 PM
The R&D will not fit in the Pietta. Well it can be jammed in there but the base pin on the Piettas are bigger diameter wise than the Ubertis.

The cap and ball cylinder does lock up well. Its the R&D that doesn't lock up every time.

It has a U engraved on the R&D cylinder too (U=Uberti).

Smokin_Gun
October 24, 2008, 03:42 AM
Bobotech you got a Uberti cylinder you wanna sell to get a Pietta? For the right price I'd buy it...and know a Shop in Montana has a good price on New ones. Jus' bought a SS ROA .45 Colt conversion cyl. for $210.
Is the Uberti SS or Blued?

SG

noelf2
October 24, 2008, 07:15 AM
Easiest way is with the hammer down put the cylinder in until it stops. Ease the hammer back until it falls into place.

Hawg - Looks like that's what he did in the video. He sure made it look "easy". ;)

60's Refugee
October 24, 2008, 08:50 AM
R&D DOES make a cylinder special for Pietta. I just bought one! Got it from Falls Creek Sutlery, a Civil War supplier out of Lebanon Indiana. It fit my new Pietta with no modification needed for either. Works perfectly. Of course, it chambers .45 LC.

Look at R&D's web site if you don't believe me (us).

Harry

noelf2
October 24, 2008, 09:40 AM
60's - I don't think anyone is contesting that R&D makes a cylinder for the pietta, it's just that his is a Uberti R&D cylinder and IT won't fit in a pietta, but is also somewhat out of time in his Uberti 1858. I got my R&D cylinder from Fall Creek Sutlery also, and just like yours if fits perfectly in my pietta 1858's. Wish I could afford another. I never see any used ones for $50 like bobotech found. Luckyyyyyyy...

Smokin_Gun
October 24, 2008, 01:52 PM
it's just that his is a Uberti R&D cylinder and IT won't fit in a pietta

I just pulled out both a 1858 Pietta and a Uberti Rem and put re Uberti cylinder right on it in about 2 blinks...cylinder pins are the same size.
Besure you rotate the cly. clockwise as viewed from the grip end to move the hand that protrudes from thr frame forward... if it's a Uberti in a Pietta there s/b no cly. length interference at all the Uberti is aprox. .010" shorter than a Pietta...cyl. face chamber end may need some lappin' or is R&D send them back and they will fit...specify do not adjust the frame, just adapt cylinder.

SG

Raider2000
October 24, 2008, 02:03 PM
That was the reason I was asking about the fit because Pietta's cylinders are longer than Uberti's & will not even go into the frame of a Uberti but the Uberti is a sloppy fit into the Pietta.

60's Refugee
October 24, 2008, 05:45 PM
Yeah, you're right. I reread the thread and he was refering to the Uberti/Pietta fit. Sorry!

I plan to buy one of those Uberti revolving carbine models very soon. I'll convert it to a Uberti R&D when I do. I hear tell they shoot real good. Look pretty cool too.

Harry

Hawg
October 24, 2008, 07:39 PM
Hawg - Looks like that's what he did in the video. He sure made it look "easy".

It is easy. I didn't watch the video because it takes too long to download with dialup.


I have been thinking about letting Steve's Guns take it for a month or two to get worked over and slicked up. Would cost about 150 dollars or so.

If you have the gun timed to that cylinder the C&B cylinder will then be out of time.

bobotech
October 24, 2008, 09:13 PM
If you have the gun timed to that cylinder the C&B cylinder will then be out of time.

Honestly, I don't care about the C&B cylinder. I will rarely shoot C&B if I have the conversion cylinder. I just want the conversion cylinder to be in perfect time so I don't have to "worry" about it when I shoot it.

For the record, I have a Uberti and a Pietta 1858. The R&D is a Uberti model (even stamped with a U on it). I just want it to be in time while in the Uberti. It doesn't fit (basepin hole on the cylinder is too small) the Pietta.

Smokin_Gun
October 25, 2008, 12:36 AM
:eek:Blastfimy!!!:rolleyes::barf:Honestly, I don't care about the C&B cylinder.

Bobotech have you tried the Uberti C&B cyl. in the Pietta to see if it's the R&D conversion Cyl. or the Pietta pin size?
Why are you trying the Uberti R&D in a Pietta that takes a .010" longer cyl.?
If that Uberti cyl. is a hair too long it would be perfect for my ASP and Euroarms Rems...I got 3 in .44 cal. they are a hair longer than Uberti.
Dim. as follows: Pietta 2.016" long, Armi San Paolo/Euroarms 2.009" long, Uberti 1.999"-2.000" long. All have the same size cyl. pin I.D. and pins are the same.

SG:cool:

bobotech
October 25, 2008, 01:24 AM
Bobotech have you tried the Uberti C&B cyl. in the Pietta to see if it's the R&D conversion Cyl. or the Pietta pin size?
Why are you trying the Uberti R&D in a Pietta that takes a .010" longer cyl.?
If that Uberti cyl. is a hair too long it would be perfect for my ASP and Euroarms Rems...I got 3 in .44 cal. they are a hair longer than Uberti.
Dim. as follows: Pietta 2.016" long, Armi San Paolo/Euroarms 2.009" long, Uberti 1.999"-2.000" long. All have the same size cyl. pin I.D. and pins are the same.

LOL

Now I'm thoroughly confused.

In a nutshell, the conversion cylinder is a Uberti R&D cylinder.

I have 2 revolvers, a Pietta and a Uberti.

The cylinder does NOT function in the Pietta, the base pin does NOT fit into the conversion cylinder.

THe conversion cylinder fits perfectly into my Uberti like it should.

The cylinder does not time perfectly with every cock. That is the issue. Sometimes it just doesn't lock into place perfectly and is slightly out of time. That is what I need to get fixed.

I really don't know why I even mentioned that I had a Pietta in the first place, that is a non-issue and something I shouldn't have even brought it up, I just managed to confuse everyone. LOL

Smokin_Gun
October 25, 2008, 02:31 AM
Check the width of the Bolt Head compared to the width of the R&D Cyl. Slot. The Cyl. blows past lock up sometimes right?
Common with C&B Cyl. & Conversions. If what I said is the case then jus' stone down or lightly file the Bolt head to fit the cylinder slot.
The going past lock up doesn't mean it's out of time, means the pawl or hand is relatively new, not worn out, and workin' proper.

Let us know, (best to take the bolt out and hand fit it apart to the cyl. then try it assembled. Remember the face or top of the bolt head is made tappered to one side and not to flaten it)

SG

bobotech
October 25, 2008, 10:53 AM
Awesome advice.

I think I shall buy a new bolt first so that I can fall back on my existing one if I screw something up.

Thanks!