Possible home invasion atempt...

[ZO6Vettever]

Last evening about 6PM I got a call from someone who could hardly speak English who wanted to see my house (for sale by owner). We set it up for 6PM the next evening. He calls back about 6:15 and says he will be there in 20 minutes and I say OK. My wife says she don't like it and tells me I should arm myself. Something just seemed creepy so I do and we wait until 6:45 and I call him. I ask where is he and he stutters and stammers and says he is here. I'm at my front door and tell him he isn't here he stalls with jib jab talk in Spanish and after about a minute of not letting me get a word in I say are you alone. More stalling and he says yeah but I here other voices so I ask him if he is bulletproof. He stalls again and says what you mean. I told him if he isn't alone don't come and if he ain't bulletproof don't come or he would leave full of holes if I see gang bangers. (I got that line from someone else on this forum) He tells me he'll call back and hangs up. Immidietly called 911, told the dispatcher what happened and that I was legally armed but did not want to shoot anyone so please get the Sherrif here ASAP. Two units show up about 25 minutes later. I held my hands in the air with CCW in hand, said I was the homeowner and legally armed. I offered to surrender my weapon. Female officer asked where it was and removed it from the IWB holster. She asked would I mind if she cleared it for their safety. I said sure, full mag + 1 in the pipe. She took the report while the other LEO ran my CCW and gun serial number. They were very professional and all went very smooth. They returned my gun and ammo and said reload whenever I want. The guy never showed, I left more lights than usual on and the pistol on not in the night table. I don't think I overeacted and it seems the cell phone is stolen. Any updates I'll keep y'all posted.

[Ballenxj]

That "did" sound very suspicious. I don't think You over reacted at all. Better safe than sorry. ;)
-Bruce

[Keltyke]

On the face, it did seem suspicious. Or perhaps it was simply someone who didn't have a good command of the English language.

More stalling and he says yeah but I here other voices so I ask him if he is bulletproof. He stalls again and says what you mean. I told him if he isn't alone don't come and if he ain't bulletproof don't come or he would leave full of holes if I see gang bangers.

You got lucky. There's not really a belief you were in immediate danger of life or bodily injury from just that phone conversation. Remember, the BG has to have ability, opportunity, and intent. You communicated a menacing threat and possibly committed an assault. You could be explaining yourself to a judge in court instead of to a LEO on your front lawn.

[buzz_knox]

You communicated a menacing threat and possibly committed an assault. You could be explaining yourself to a judge in court instead of to a LEO on your front lawn.

That depends on the particular jurisdiction. In many places, "if you come with gangbangers, you'll leave with pallbearers" doesn't qualify.

[Smaug]

It sounds to me like you really jumped to some conclusions there. I can't figure out what made you think of a home invasion.

If I were going to invade a house, I'd probably choose one that likely still had all the valuables in it, rather than one that might be mostly empty.

[Ballenxj]

If I were going to invade a house, I'd probably choose one that likely still had all the valuables in it, rather than one that might be mostly empty.
My concern here is the possibility of armed robbery, considering the possible perps knew he was going to be there alone.
My guess is that they "could" have assumed the OP has a fat wallet based on the type and location of the house. I'm basing these thoughts on the OP's user name, Z06Vettever, which indicates to me he has a Z06 Corvette, which is not an inexpensive car. :cool:
-Bruce

[johnwilliamson062]

I think you might have overreacted, but I guess better safe than sorry.

[ƒORTE]

Anyone see Lost in Translation?

[sourdough44]

We just had a case near Milwaukee where a guy went to look at a car for sale from an individual. During the test drive he pulls a gun, ties up the car owner & later kills him. The perp later killed himself as the cops closed in. His girlfriend is up on charges now for involvement. You just never know.

[Japle]

Other than telling the guy you'd shoot him if he showed up with anybody else, I don't think you did anything wrong. The whole thing sounds pretty suspicious to me.

Maybe I'm not the one to ask, though. My wife says I have a strong tendency to overeact!!

[Bud Helms]

I know there is a handgun in this story. Maybe this should go in Tactics and Training.

Moving.

[357 Python]

He could also have been planning on casing your home to find out what valuables were there. He might see something he likes and later when no one is home, he breaks in and steals you blind. Glad it worked out. By calling the Sheriff's office they will be keeping an eye out for this situation. Stay safe.

[mpage]

There's been a trend in my city in the last few months, of crooks burglarizing homes during an "Open House", even though the homeowners are there. I would bet that is what probably might have occurred in the original poster's case.

[buddycraigg]

i would have reacted the same.

[ZO6Vettever]

I wasn't here alone, my wife and I live in the house and it wasn't a "communication problem" 2 years of Spanish and Manager of a hotel 9 years with Latino staff my "Spanglish" is damn good. Grant it I should not have threatened them but I just flat out didn't want them to show up. I was suspicious because of his inconsistantcies and out and out lie that he was alone. There also was recently an unsolved home invasion here. It turns out the cell phone he called on was stolen leading me to further believe my instincts were justified. Thanks for the comments and I'll try not to make threats in the unlikely event anything like this should ever happen again.

[Tuckahoe]

Everytime I read a story like this I am so glad that I live way out in the country. Sometimes you just know when something isn't right. I have seen latinos that when they discover you can speak spanish suddenly cannot speak anything just as ZO6 said. I think he did just fine.

[Threefeathers]

Having just returned from LFI I'm going to make some comments based on my class but I may ask Mas for some advice.
First, you are the the protector of the innocent in your home. That is your first concern and out ranks any other consideration.
With that you can use your firearm when their is the immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. There are indeed three criteria to this.
1. Ability of the BG to do it.
2. Opportunity to do it, in this case showing up with help or arms.
3. Jeopardy, a person who shows in any way the actions including speech of physical intimidation that they will commit the act.
In your case all three criteria were there, the answers on the phone show that Jeopardy was very possible and that they subsequently didn't show up alone or a smiling kindly wife, children, puppy in tow shows me that you avoided a disaster.

[cschwanz]

i think it was a very shaky situation. that being sadi however, i would have threatened the guy over the phone. simply arm yourself, tell him you have to cancel the appointment to show the house and hang up the phone. if he shows up and tried to get in, then its a different story and if push comes to shove, he cant tell the cops you threatened him before shooting him.

[Mike in VA]

Gotta go with your gut, and if it feels wierd, you're wise to take care. I don't know about threatening to ventilate the guy, but I'da sure asked who's coming and limited to him & his wife or whatever, and prepared accordingly. The shaky timing and excuses would have set my 'spidey-sense' off, too.

Selling a house is a tedious process, even with realtors, you don't know who is comming in you house, etc. Open houses really suck if there's a bunch of people comming thru, the agents can't watch everyone. My neighbor had a bunch of little stuff stolen (iPod, knick-knacks, etc) during an open house during an open house (in a 'nicer' neighborhood in Falls Church, VA). We insisted that the realtors selling our house not let more people in than they could walk thru personally at any one time (this was a couple years ago when the mkt was hot-), and we had already secured anything that could easily 'walk-off'.

[Creature]

As has been said, I agree that "spidey senses" should never be ignored. But your tough talk when there was no direct threat was IMO borderline communicating a threat. You should have told him that the house was no longer available for showing...and then called the police. You definitely overreacted.

[Sportdog]

If they arrested everyone who "threatened bodily harm", half my hometown would be in jail! "I'll f*** you up", "I'll pop a cap on your a**" etc. etc. etc. are standard statements if you dare make eye contact with the local gang banger wannabees. The police would laugh in your face if you even hinted that something be done about it. I guess there are parts of the country more civilized than we are around here.;)

[Nnobby45]

I held my hands in the air with CCW in hand, said I was the homeowner and legally armed. I offered to surrender my weapon. Female officer asked where it was and removed it from the IWB holster.


I'm not offering major criticism, but sometimes I wonder why so many posters can't wait to let LE know they're armed and surrender their weapons. Things went fine, in this case.

In my city, an officer was informed by a citizen that he was armed, and the officer just had to take his weapon to check it and see if it was loaded (why wouldn't it be?). It was-- and while the officer was retracting the slide with finger on trigger, the citizen was shot. Not life threatening.

After yet another ND in similar fashion, the department decided that, if the citizen was legally armed, there was no need to handle the weapon and see if it was loaded.

I think that having CCW and DL in hand when LE arrives is sufficent. You'll be instructed in what to do. I did that on one occasion, and my DL and CCW were handed back without so much as a word.

[Keltyke]

I think that having CCW and DL in hand when LE arrives is sufficent.

Unless I'm holding the suspect at gunpoint or the gunfight is still in progress, my weapon will be safetied and back in the holster when the LEOs pull up. I will identify myself as the victim, offer my identification and CWP permit as my state law requires, and inform the officer I am armed and tell him where the gun is. I will follow his instructions from that point on. I'd rather inform the officer I am armed than have him discover it in any subsequent search.

Openness, forthrightness, and truthfulness goes a long way when dealing with the law in a "street" situation.

It's common practice for a LEO to disarm anyone they're taking with in a "situation". It's for everyone's protection. The LEO wants to be the only one on the scene with a firearm, and I don't really blame him. Besides, after the LEOs arrive, I don't need my weapon.

I've been disarmed once and asked to "not put my hands near my weapon " twice. No problem in any of those situations.

[Relayer]

For sale by owner always creates a certain amount of risk. You are basically inviting any and all to come in for a look see, for any reason they like. I would definitely schedule any appointments to show the house for at least a day after the initial call/contact, and get a number to call them back to confirm (kind of a cooling off period, if you will).

If someone knocks on the door you can just not answer it and let them call the number on the For Sale sign. Again, schedule to show the next day, or so, callback number, etc..

When they show up, check them out as they approach the house and if you are alarmed by what you see, just don't answer the door. When showing the house, don't lead the person(s) through the house. Let them lead, you follow (ie, don't let them get behind you). That way, if things go bad wrong, you have a chance of getting your weapon into action.

For my money, I would not make an appointment to show your home to anyone that cannot, for whatever reason, communicate clearly with you. The chances of getting to a binding deal are, at best, pretty remote. You should have a list of questions prepared to ask them when they call to test their sincerity. Where do they currently live? When do they plan to buy? Do they have a home to sell before they can buy your home? Have they pre-qualified with a lender? Who is the lender (company, person, tel #)?

If they get testy, nervous, or confused, then they are probably not serious buyers for your home, anyway.

Good luck

[Bob F.]

My wife says she don't like it and tells me I should arm myself. Something just seemed creepy

That's all you need. Always trust your instincts, ALWAYS!!

Stay safe.
Bob

[skeeter1]

"My wife says she don't like it and tells me I should arm myself. Something just seemed creepy

That's all you need. Always trust your instincts, ALWAYS!!"

I don't know what the law is in south Florida, but here in Ohio, it's perfectly legal to carry a firearm in your own house, and I do. When I leave the house, then I switch to a little (2.5") folding knife, also quite legal. CCW licenses are dreadfully expensive. Last time I checked ($175), so I gave up on the idea. Besides, I have to walk with a cane everywhere anymore, and I have several, and I suspect any of them would make a good shillelagh (I have one of those, too) if I ever needed it, and perfectly legal.

The little NAA revolver that I carry in my pocket around the house might not be much, but I've shot it, and with CCI Velocitors, well, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. I keep a .38Spl+P by my bed. The bigger iron is all locked up in the safe.

Sorry, I'm rambling. I tend to do that sometimes. ;)

[Nnobby45]

[QUOTE]Quote:
I think that having CCW and DL in hand when LE arrives is sufficent.

Unless I'm holding the suspect at gunpoint or the gunfight is still in progress............



LOL, Ah, Jeez, no kidding? if you were in the middle of a gunfight or holding the suspect at gun point, that would be quite different than ZO6vettever's situation in which the suspect left the scene before officers arrived. It's only to that, or similar situations (no gunfights in progress or drawn guns:rolleyes:) I was referring to.

Then you went an injected the hypothectical-- you crafty devil.;) LOL

[HogManMagnum]

hey, Z06, u did the right thing and im glad it worked out ok. south florida has had a rise in home invasions lately so i cant balme anyone for even overreacting in that situation...

at the end of the day the BGs are scared off, the family is safe and u didnt have to fire the sigma. good deal

[Nnobby45]

Last evening about 6PM I got a call from someone who could hardly speak English who wanted to see my house (for sale by owner)........

I live in an area north of Reno called the North Valleys. Homes in my neighborhood are 1 acre lots. There have been many homes for sale for a long time and a high percentage of buyers are Hispanic whose language skills range from zero to excellent. Mostly good folks who like horses, keep to themselves, and are family oriented.

If somebody is coming to look at your house, then it's logical that they'd be a couple. With English skills sorely lacking, as in the case of your prospective buyer, the "Spanish jib" you described may have been an attempt to communicate after being threatened with bullet holes should he not show up alone--especially if he was on his way with wife, mother-in law, and all the kids--with everyone eager to look at their possible new home.:D

You were quite correct to be on alert and suspicious, but, under the circumstances, you might have, from the start, asked him who was coming with him, what kind of car did he drive, etc. Sounds like the kind of thing that could happen with someone who "barely speaks English".

What are the chances that language barrier was the problem? I don't know, but I suspect a lot more likely than gang bangers who want to gain access to your home through trickery and rob you--- or worse. I'm not saying you were wrong, just that you might have left out the bullet hole part.

If something similar to way I described was the case, it might have been who called the police in stead of you. Guess we'll never know if you saved your lives or just scared some people looking for a new home.

[Slopemeno]

I also think it's a good argument for subbing out what youre not prepared to do yourself. Having your house emptied, then staged, and sold by a realtor will probably make you more money anyway. I'd be willing to bet speaking Spanish isn't a bad call these days for realtors either.

I'm all for being prepared, but let's be realistic. What percentage of "visits" results in a home invasion in the US every year? Very, very, very few.

[JAYBIRD78]

Strange indeed. You did what you felt was right and no blood/no foul as far as I'm concerned.

What does concern me is yet again the cops don't trust you/me/us. Unload for their safety? THEY are in control of YOUR firearm while being ARMED themselves. What isn't all ready safe about that. Then in my opinion to rub salt in a wound they run the serial number on your pistol. Like Joe Citizen is going to bring a illegal gun with him to the door with cops showing up.

ATTENTION: THEY don't trust you.............so PLEASE DON'T trust THEM.

BE SAFE

[heyduke]

I guess I don't get it.

No one broke in, let alone showed up at the house:confused:

Then, the cops come and you're raising your gun in the air:confused:

I guess I consider myself lucky. The road to my house is on my land, and you can't see the house from the road. Someone comes to my house, either myself or my animals will know it, and by chance if someone comes down that road meaning me harm, they will wish I called the local sheriff:D