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GLP Standard
October 6, 2008, 02:32 AM
Just wondering, what would make a sawed off rifle illegal? Is this considered a Title 2 firearm? Im not sure at all what the law is on it, but IIRC, you can't just go cutting the stock off on a rifle. I could be wrong, but isnt that illegal? What does the law say about having a full size rifle cut down to have a pistol grip?

Bill DeShivs
October 6, 2008, 02:39 AM
Federal law says the gun must be 26" overall, with a barrel length of 16 inches. It says nothing about pistol grips.

GLP Standard
October 6, 2008, 02:49 AM
Okay. Reason I ask is because a guy at work bought an old rifle off of some guy he knows for $20.00, and for some reason (I might be able to guess why) the guy that had it cut off the stock, leaving just a pistol grip. The guy I work with wanted me to take a look at it and see what I could do with it, and I told him I wouldn't touch it till I found out for sure what the law was on something that has been modified in such a way.

The weapon is a Squibman Model 20a. Its not in bad shape (aside from the fact that it doesnt have a magazine and the stock is sawed off) but does anyone know ANYTHING at all about these? I cant find much on them. Is it possible to get parts for them anymore? I know its probably not worth it, as its made in the Phillipines, but I told him I would look into it.

VUPDblue
October 6, 2008, 07:41 AM
Time to bust out the ol' tape measure! As long as it falls into the 16"/26" category it's GTG.

ISC
October 6, 2008, 08:14 AM
To be legal a rifle has to have a 26 inch overall length and 16 inch barrel.

To be legal a shotgun has to have a 26 inch overall length and 18 inch barrel.

You can go shorter if you register it as a "any other weapon" and pay the tax, but that's a PITA.

VUPDblue
October 6, 2008, 02:30 PM
You can go shorter if you register it as a "any other weapon" and pay the tax, but that's a PITA.

Look! Another NFA un-truth! It can't be, not on teh interwebs.....nooooooooooooooooooooooo

ISC
October 6, 2008, 03:32 PM
what are you saying, that AOW is not a PITA or that you aren't allowed to register SBS/SBR?

aroundlsu
October 6, 2008, 04:06 PM
I think he means registering it as a "short barrel shotgun/rifle" would be a more accurate statement. AOWs are specific types of shotguns such as the Serbu Super Shorty. You can't just register anything as an AOW.

Also, once you do it a few times it's no longer a PITA. It's a lot like buying a house. The first time will seem overwhelming. Once you do it a couple of times it's not that big of a deal.

VUPDblue
October 6, 2008, 05:43 PM
You can't just go around 'registering' something as an AOW all willy nilly. An AOW has a very specific definition, just like SBR's and SBS's. Rifles that are shorter than the 16"/26" rule are Short Barreled Rifles, or SBR's. Shotguns that are shorter than the 18"/26" rule are Short Barreled Shotguns, or SBS's. Items like the Serbu Super Shorty were never *legally* shotguns in the first place, thus they are AOW's.

Filing the NFA paperwork is not nearly as difficult as some people make it out to be.

FLRich
November 2, 2008, 09:14 AM
OK so when you measure a barrel do you measure from the crown to the end of the threads or somwhere else. For instance a 870 barrel, from the edge of the choke to where the receiver meets or to the end of the barrel when removed, there are a few inches of difference there.

tomgun
November 2, 2008, 09:35 AM
with the chamber loaded insert a dowel in the barrell,when it stops on the round mark,remove and measure.

freakshow10mm
November 2, 2008, 09:50 AM
Chamber loaded? Spare me.:confused:

Get a skinny tape measure. MAKE SURE THE DAMN GUN IS UNLOADED!! Close the action and slide the tape measure down until it hits the breech face (stops). Take the measurement at the muzzle of the barrel.

Barrel measurement is from the breech face to muzzle with the action closed, essentially where the barrel and receiver meet, that's the starting point.

Joat
November 2, 2008, 09:53 AM
Correction - "The Length of the majority of rifle barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed breach on a line parrellel to the axis of the bore" ATF National Firearms Handbook, Chapter 2, Page 6.

Barrel length includes the length of the UNLOADED chamber with a few exceptions.

Joat

Freakshow beat me to it.

David Hineline
November 2, 2008, 02:42 PM
That rifle in good shape would only be worth a couple hundred dollars. There are magazines for sale for it on gunbroker.com for around $25 each.

Might try gun parts or jack first for replacement stock.

imp
November 24, 2008, 04:27 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but why can't you just take the stock off while you try to find a replacement? Then, it's just a barreled action, which is, if I am correct, just parts, and not a weapon at all. Assuming the barrel meets the 18" mark.