Some basic buckshot questions

[GamingOrb]

My father-in-law just got a Benelli Cordoba in 12 ga. mainly for pigeons and clays on their farm. There are also coyotes on the farm that we spot sometimes, so I pickup up some buckshot in case we see them when we have the shotty and no rifle's handy. I picked up some 3" 00 Winchester "Magnum Buckshot" (15 pellets at 1210 FPS, I believe). I would have gone for some #4 probably, but that was about all the store had. OK, so my questions:

1) How is the recoil likely to compare to my pigeon loads (2 3/4", #6, 1 1/4 oz., 1330 FPS, 3 3/4 dram eq.)?

2) What kind of effective range should I expect? (28" barrel, using IC, but I have Cyl. if that's needed)

3) Any benefits to a different pellet size vs. 00? (Coyotes in mind here, won't be deer hunting)

4) Is there a practical benefit to the 3" over the 2 3/4", or would the shorter shell have about the same effectiveness for lower recoil?

I know those are some pretty rookie questions, but my experience is limited to clays and pigeons as I've been taking a .270 out when I'm looking for coyotes (over-kill, I know:)). Oh, and to anyone curious, that Benelli is SWEET! I think I like shooting it better than their Browning Citori 625, and that just seems crazy.

[B. Lahey]

1. More recoil. Lots more. Fun, though.:)

2. Shoot them and see. Could be 25 yards, could be 50, it's a little different for every shot/barrel combo.

3. Could go smaller for critters.

4. More pellets, you make the call

[GamingOrb]

Hmm, "Lots more." I once shot a 3 1/2" Turkey load from my uncle's Benelli. Even more than that? Thanks for the input.

[hogdogs]

That 3 1/2 turkey load is about as stiff as it gets...
A 3 inch slug or buckshot smarts right fine. I shoot 2 3/4 buck shot and if that isn't good enough I would use a slug... Just never seen the need for 3 inch but intend to do head to head comparison with my usual cheap 2 3/4 00 buck and 3 inch just to see how much more umph there is.
Brent

[Cerick]

O there is more umph in the 3" vs the 2 3/4. look

first two shots are 3" remington 00 buck, the rest are federal tactical 2 3/4 00 buck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2_1MX8-Q9Y

[schutzen]

Been there, done that. Recoil with buckshot is usually considerably more than with birdshot. On the shell side of the recoil equation, recoil is affected by the weight of the shot and the size of the powder charge. More shot equals more recoil. More powder equals more recoil. Trap, skeet, and sporting clays loads run from 7/8's to 1 1/8's ounces of shot. Buckshot loads run from 1 1/4 ounces up. Heavier weight shot requires a larger powder charge to achieve nominal velocity. The result is more recoil.

2 3/4" versus 3" is simple math. Longer shell equals more shot. I have not looked it up, but I believe a 12 gauge 2 3/4" hold 9 pellets of 00 and a 3" holds 12 pellets. Of course a larger shot charge means more recoil from a 3".

I have had good luck using modified choke with buckshot. I've had numerous kills on coyotes at 35-75 yards and one at 110 yards using 2 3/4" 00 and a modified choke. Coyotes are very wary predators and usually strike between dusk and dawn, but they are somewhat like criminals. They are looking for a soft easy target. If you hear them working in your fields and can not see them. Pick a safe spot to shoot (a stump or a dirt bank etc,) and fire a round or two. If they have been shot at before, they are gone for the night.

[L_Killkenny]

00 buck has too few pellets and doesn't hold patterns worth a spit beyond 30 yards. You pattern desity will stink and you will be lucky too hit a yote COM.

Best thing to do is pattern a gun yourself at the ranges you think you'll shoot at. Count the pellets in the kill zone. #4 buck is the "traditional" coyote load using full chokes. Today people are using special coyote chokes like the Carlson Dead Coyote choke and they also use turkey chokes. New coyote loads out there too called "Dead Coyote".

Good luck
LK

[publius]

I would probably use #4 buck out of a modified or full choke. #1 is as large as I would go. that's what I use for deer. Anything bigger than #1 and your patterns are very likely to be sh!t past 20ft. or so.

[LanceOregon]

First off, for long range shotgun shooting, there is no better choke than the PatternMaster brand choke. It is available for all popular choke systems. While a bit pricey, it is well worth the money, if you want truly superior patterns at long range for things like Coyote hunting or Goose hunting.

Secondly, you don't really need Buckshot. A good load of cooper plated lead BB shot will do at normal ranges. Goose loads using high density tungsten alloy shot in BB size will also work well too.

For the ultimate in long distance shooting, HeviShot's Dead Coyote load, which uses T sized ( .22 inch ) shot, is know for sure kills out to 60 yards. It is a little smaller than #4 Buckshot, which is .24 inch caliber.

The real key is to get a good choke tube, meant to give tight patterns at longer ranges with larger shot. And that is exactly what the PatternMaster does.

See:

http://patternmaster.com/benelli-beretta-chokes/12ga-benelli-beretta-extended/

.

[.45 COLT]

Not a real important point, but T Shot is .20", TT is .21", F is .22" and FF is .23".

DC

[Kerberos]

There are 8 00 pellets to the ounce. An ounce is 437.5 grains. You gave the weight of the #6 load so we don't have to count all the hundreds of little pellets. :-) So...

1-1/4 oz. at 1330 fps (2-3/4" shells)
437.5 * 1.25 * 1330 * 1330 / 450434.6 = 2147.63 ft-lbs muzzle energy

1-7/8 oz. at 1210 fps (3" 15 pellet shells)
437.5 * 1.875 * 1210 * 1210 / 450434.6 = 2666.36 ft-lbs muzzle energy

So the 3" 00 buck will kick a bit more but probably not too terribly much. I normally use 2-3/4" 00 buck (with 8 or 9 pellets) but I have shot the 3" 15 pellet variety too. I noticed the difference but it wasn't horrible by any means. Why do I stick with the shorter shells? Mostly because of diminishing returns in a HD scenario. The 8 or 9 pellet shells already give me multiple times the muzzle energy of my .357 and I think that's sufficient.

As for range, you need to pattern it. There's really no substitute for that.

I have yet to shoot at coyotes but if 00 buck does the trick for deer I suspect it will for coyotes as well. If you need longer distances then you'll probably want a rifle instead. My .243 will be my choice when I finally get a chance to go after coyotes.

The 3" shells I've shot pushed the shot to a higher velocity so that might buy you a bit more range. But again, you'd have to pattern it to see if it was really worth it.

[GamingOrb]

Thanks for all this great input. Whenever I buy more ammo I'll most likely go down to #4 Buck. As for range, I can see occasion where I might find a longer shot on a coyote when I have the 12 ga, but for the most part, I'll only be using it for coyote in reasonably thick woods, where the 4-12 scope on my .270 gets a little unwieldy. And yes, I know the chances of me 'sneaking up' on a yote is nill, but we like hiking around the farm occasionally and it seems dumb not to carry the shotty, just in case. So most of the time, I'd probably be taking 15-40 yard shots.

I'll try to get out and pattern it, but I think I'll stick with the IC until then, or when I get some #4, just to prevent too much deformation.

Thanks again for the info.

[ebutler462]

My farm is loaded with coyotes but they are a wary bunch. I prefer my 270 with 100 grain. It will reach out and get them. I occasioanlly shotgun hunt them but when I do I use an electronic rabbit squealer. I use #4 buckshot in 2 3/4" and keep my shots under 50 yards. No problem putting the coyotes down. BUT, change your blind every day or the survivors will avoid it like the plague. These guys travel in loose packs and when one of them is shot, they won't go back to that location for a few days.

With the rifle, I get in a tree stand and have at them but I don't remove the one I shot until the next day. That way, they have no idea where the shot came from. Dumb, they ain't. With the shotgun, I use a ground blind and move it constantly.

It is very discouraging until you get the hang of it. Don't underestimate the intelligence of these pups.