Unexpected Hard Rap On My Bedroom Window

[VonFireball]

What do you do?

I'll tell you what I just did.

A couple hours ago, I'm sitting in my bedroom doing some reading.

Out of nowhere (about 3:00 eastern time) I get three rapid, sharp raps at my bedroom window. Startled me.

Quickly, I looked out the window to see if anyone was running out of my driveway. From where my bedroom window is, the only possible means of exit from the property is over an 8 foot high chain link fence or to run down the driveway (about 50 feet long). I saw no one.

I grabbed my gun, and headed out the back door and around the side of the house. I saw nothing except a bald man talking on a cell phone just across the street. I wanted to say something to him, but decided not to blow my cover and went inside and observed him through the window.

I dunno, what else should I do or have done?

I feel like maybe the dude across the street was casing my place out and banged on the window to see if I was home at that hour of the day.

Please, any comments or suggestions would be very helpful.

It really has been bugging me out all day. I was supposed to go to a family dinner at my parent's place, but now I'm paranoid to leave my house unattended.

What else do I do?

[teeroux]

Did you call the police even though it isn't an emergency or no lives in danger they can still question the man for his tresspass.

[VonFireball]

I can't say for sure that the guy I spotted across the street was responsible, so no, I didn't call the police.

[Wyo Big Bore]

Maybe it was a bird.

[OldMarksman]

I grabbed my gun, and headed out the back door and around the side of the house

Why?

[Mike Gaines]

Best thing to do is to buy motion sensor flood lights for all corners of your house and make them hard to spot. Another thing is to get a large dog that's capable of taking down a person i.e. german sheperd or bullmastiff. I have one of each and are very friendly to friends and family but NOT to strangers! NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOUSE TO CHECK OUT A STRANGE NOISE WITH A WEAPON!!! You will have a hell of a time trying to explain legally to the courts that you were in "immediate danger" outside in the open so having a gun means you just brandished a deadly weapon which is a felony in all 50 states. I'd say an alarm system, dog, and flood lights should solve your anxiety.

[hogdogs]

Motion sensor floodlights do very little at 3 in the afternoon...
Mine won't even come on at that time of day.
I would have gone out armed as well since the bad guy could be ducked and tucked under the window and I would like to engage with the element of surprise and superior firepower.
Brent

[hogdogs]

Also In my state of Florida I can traverse my property armed openly. I also can ask the person what his business on my place is... If he runs I can't shoot him but if he postures in any fashion I feel is a threatening manner he is to be considered a threat to my safety. it does not take a drawn gun or knife to be a threat to my safety here...
Brent

[Bogie]

I'll also guess bird.

[VonFireball]

It was no bird.

Because of the vicinity of the high chain linked fence next to my driveway, birds cannot really even fly in close to bang a window that hard. My father used to have huge picture windows in his house, so I know the difference between "bird" and "BG hammering on window".

My weapon was holstered, not wielded or brandished, but I did scoot out that back door fast and fairly prepared, or at least, I thought. I wanted to see if it was just a kid or if someone was perhaps casing my joint.

I doubted that it was a kid on account of the fact that the only kids on my block have strict parents that don't let them leave the property. Also, the intensity of the rap on the window was to the point where any harder and the glass would've given way.

[Bill DeShivs]

Mike Gaines
There is nothing illegal about carrying a weapon on your own property in Memphis. Brandishing and carrying are two different things.

[OldMarksman]

My weapon was holstered, not wielded or brandished, but I did scoot out that back door fast and fairly prepared, or at least, I thought. I wanted to see if it was just a kid or if someone was perhaps casing my joint.

I think, but do not know, that the operative question is, "what was it that you intended to do upon that determination?". Had things gone downhill, and things had escalated to violence, how did it get there? Would the authorities have concluded that you had been "looking for trouble?"

Please don't take me wrong here. I'm not questioning your judgment or intentions. But the facts are, carry permits do not grant police powers, civilians may seldom detain others legally, production of a weapon is usually permissible only when it is evident that the threat of imminent bodily harm is present, and self defense can only be argued by an innocent person. Do not take any of that as legal advice, but you might consider whether it is wise to go outside with a gun rather than remaining vigilant inside and calling for police if something more sinister should arise.

Based on what I think I know now, I would do the latter.

You might want to ask an attorney.

Good luck, and if you learn more. please share.

[Night Watch]

:rolleyes: Well ..... a very similar thing happened to the young man who lives across the road from us. Someone walked right past his always annoying floodlights, ignored the fact that he had a large dog, and tapped loudly on his dining room window at 1:30 in the morning. He got up from his easy chair and walked to the window to see what was up. That's when he took five 40 caliber JHP bullets in his gut!

My wife sat straight up in bed and said; 'THAT was gunfire!' I replied; 'Yeah, and that wasn't no jacklight hunter either!' (We get them coming through the farm every now and then.) We buttoned the place up and stayed away from the windows until the entire road filled with emergency vehicles and lit up like the circus had just come to town! :eek:

No matter where you live today, you've got to be more careful. At our house we never answer the door. We answer the window instead. Don't hesitate to call the police about the slightest little thing. That's what they're there for! In your case, at least, they would have ID'd the guy for you; and, he wouldn't have remained an unknown!

I don't worry about going outside with a gun because I'm licensed and ALWAYS carry anyway. Still, if someone were to knock on my window, I'd simply pick up one of my pistols and wait for him to come on inside. I'm a great believer in not showing myself and not revealing my presence until I absolutely have to.

Just yesterday I had two people come to the door and knock. I didn't know them; they weren't expected; and, I didn't answer the door. As they walked back down the driveway I saw the young male turn around and look directly at the window I was watching him from. He saw me, stopped, but did not return to the door. (The young woman with him had on one of the tightest pairs of dungarees I've ever seen on another human being - Must have been very uncomfortable!)

Worse than facing the unknown, in all of these situations it's your own curiosity that you have to guard against most. I try very hard to never be, 'Ranger Rabbit' and always bring the other party into where I want them to be rather than the other way around.

This neighborhood has its drug dealers and users; that's almost a given in today's world; on the other hand, my wife and I always have a pistol and a cell phone ready wherever we are; and, then, there's the dogs; nobody wants to mess with the dogs - including the two who showed up yesterday afternoon! Even when you're not home, dogs are still good for discouraging, 'window knockers'.) ;)

[luvsasmith]

Well I'm glad to see that the person who wrapped on your window was not standing behind a wall waiting for you to turn that corner with his weapon at chest height.

At any rate, I'd stay in the house, not turning on any lights, except those outside switched from areas away from windows while holding my weapon in hand, slicing the pie to get to my destination(s). After seeing I don't know the person or not seeing a person, I'd call the Police. As a Police Academy Cadet and Reserve Officer, I know they'd want to check your house and the area around you, given they are in Police work for the right reasons. Let them blow the cover, let them do their job.

Seriously glad to hear you and yours are safe and sound.

[Seeker]

"Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
`Surely,' said I, `surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore -
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore; -
'Tis the wind and nothing more!'"
-Poe

did the dog bark?

[SiNNiK]

I lived in a house with two quarter-circle windows and twice had a bird fly right smack into it. Knocked it out, on my lawn.

Thing of it was, each time the bird only hit the window once, then fell (bounced?) to the ground.

They did not stike the window three times.

[VonFireball]

I think, but do not know, that the operative question is, "what was it that you intended to do upon that determination?". Had things gone downhill, and things had escalated to violence, how did it get there? Would the authorities have concluded that you had been "looking for trouble?"



Weapon was concealed. Florida is castle doctrine. No CCW needed for my own property. That means I can carry it out there in my hand if I feel the need.

I only went to check to see if someone was in my driveway. It's not like I went out gun in hand with the hammer back and ready to rip.



Well I'm glad to see that the person who wrapped on your window was not standing behind a wall waiting for you to turn that corner with his weapon at chest height.


True, but I have a wooden fence I have to go through out back. Has sort of a deadbolt. I had already checked the windows and saw nothing. I looked through the fence and also saw nothing so I figured they were either gone, ducking below windows further up the driveway, or hiding around the back of the garage.

You got a good point, but it was 3 in the afternoon and I didn't think the threat level was the same as it would be at 3 in the morning.

Point noted though, next time I'm going out there with a shotgun, especially if it's after 3 am.

It's funny, seems all of the responses didn't read my thread cause they all tell me to turn on floodlights (don't have em) when it was broad daylight, which is why I went barrelling out there to begin with.

Sometimes, in these types of situations, it seems there is never an absolutely correct way of handling it.

[Wuchak]

My first thought is a woodpecker or other bird. There are a lot of species that will sit and peck at their reflections in windows or car mirrors. They see their reflection as another bird in their territory.

[OldMarksman]

Weapon was concealed. Florida is castle doctrine. No CCW needed for my own property.

If you know that, good. Castle doctrine has to do with use of deadly force and in FL applies to the home,car, place of business, and says you can also use force rather than retreat in any place in which you have right to be.

Right to carry concealed, on the other hand, is covered by FL Statute 790.01, which says you need a permit to carry concealed, one of several exceptions being "at the home or place of business."

If it has been established that "at the home" includes the yard, great. That's not the case where I live.

We have castle doctrine here also, and the intent is about the same except that the user of deadly force must be occupying a dwelling, tent, or automobile. For CC, I see no specific exceptions to requiring the permit (called carry endorsement here) other than in the car.

My required CCW course lasted 8 hours, and a good deal of that covered law and interpretation. A friend of mine just took the FL course and he said it was very good.

One thing he learned was that in FL, if the shape of gun shows through your clothing you are not in compliance with the law. That's less of an issue here. What do you know about that?

The reason for my interest is that FL honors our state's permit, but one must obey all FL laws when in Florida. Have to understand them to do that.

[hogdogs]

Yes in florida "at the home" is defined as inside the property lines but not the public easement portion of sidewalk. The closest I come to concealed on my place is carrying in the front pocket but if I am investigating My gun is ready to go with my thumb resting on the safety. I routinely answer knocks on the door after dark (if I cannot identify the person) or anything that get my house dogs into condition red with a loaded shotgun...
Brent

[Don Gwinn]

Sometimes, in these types of situations, it seems there is never an absolutely correct way of handling it.

See? You didn't need us. You knew the correct answer all along.

You used your best judgment and dealt with the facts as they became apparent. That's the right answer.

[OldMarksman]

Yes in florida "at the home" is defined as inside the property lines but not the public easement portion of sidewalk.

Thanks, Brent!

[hogdogs]

You can mow your lawn with an AR on your back and a pistol on your side if you choose and there is nothing that can be done to you... Even if a terrified neighbor complains...
I don't mow with a concealed weapon due to rust issues and sweating...:D
Brent

[VonFireball]

Yes in florida "at the home" is defined as inside the property lines but not the public easement portion of sidewalk. The closest I come to concealed on my place is carrying in the front pocket but if I am investigating My gun is ready to go with my thumb resting on the safety. I routinely answer knocks on the door after dark (if I cannot identify the person) or anything that get my house dogs into condition red with a loaded shotgun...


Yeah, I can openly or concealed carry anywhere on my property. That includes the front lawn. I have businesses near my house, like just over the chain link fence so usually I just conceal it so as not to startle the flower shop employees and customers.


One thing he learned was that in FL, if the shape of gun shows through your clothing you are not in compliance with the law. That's less of an issue here. What do you know about that?


I can carry whatever I like however I like on my own property. That's law. Once I hit the sidewalk, I would be in violation, so technically, I can't CCW the 3 feet to the mailbox...lol


See? You didn't need us. You knew the correct answer all along.


Well, it never hurts to get a second opinion. Plus, I thought it would be a good thing to mention to the other guys, seeing as how it gives them another home defense scenario to run through. Seems like you can't have your bases covered enough.

If one other guy reads the thread and they are more prepared for a similar scenario and it winds up happening to them, then I feel I've done us all a service.


You used your best judgment and dealt with the facts as they became apparent. That's the right answer.

That's mighty nice of you to say. I don't know if that is precisely correct...lol...but it sure sounded good. I'll take it. Thanks.:)

[David Armstrong]

NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOUSE TO CHECK OUT A STRANGE NOISE WITH A WEAPON!!!
I'll agree with Mike here. Why in the world would you leave a position of superiority and control to go out and wander into an unknown situation when there is no need? Being in the house, in a defensive posture, you have all the advantages. Leaving the house you lose that to a great extent. Call the police and let them check things out.

Night Watch summed it up well:
"....always bring the other party into where I want them to be rather than the other way around."

[hogdogs]

If at all possible, I would rather keep the bloody mess outside...:D Momma will gripe thru the entire cleanup inside...:rolleyes:
In all seriousness I have as much desire to know what is going on before they enter as after. I am also doing my best to save a life. If they enter it is a high likely hood they will be getting shot. If I meet them outside they have a 50/50 chance of survival.
Brent

[VonFireball]

In all seriousness I have as much desire to know what is going on before they enter as after.


This was my thinking.

If someone was casing my place out, I wanna have a description.

If someone was intent on doing me or a family member bodily harm, I want to put as much space as possible between them and their method of attack and my wife and children.

[Ohio Rusty]

I get that all the time .... I have a half dozen hummingbirds that like to fight over the window feeder, and they are always running into the windows pushing against each other ..... They are hyped up on sugar ....
Ohio Rusty ><>

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Woodpecker was whacking on the side of our house this morning right above the master bedroom window. I ran out with my fork and pancakes. :D

He is annoying.

[Slopemeno]

I'd probably go with the bird theory myself, but let's think about it for a second...lets say it was a bad guy. What do you suppose his plan was by rapping on the window? I'd say dollars to donuts it would be to get you to come running outside.

When it comes to stuff like this, stay inside where you have all the advantages, and call 911. Let's say you get the cops out there, and they look around and don't find anything...they aren't going to write you an invoice or something. "We didn't find anything" "Wow, what a load off my mind. You guys are the best" That's all that happens.

I'll tell you a true story. I used to listen to the scanner quite a bit back in the early 80's. I heard some cops dispatched to a call at an older single womans house, where she claimed a man had been trying to kick her door in at about 3:00 AM. You could just hear the "Yeah, right" in the dispatcher and cops voices. The cops (wisely) got a few extra cars out there, and searched the perimeter of this womans house, only to find bootprints all over her front ddor, and the same boot prints in the dirt in her yard- it was exactly what she thought it was. You could hear the mood change on the cops as they widened the search to the surrounding neighborhood. I found it pretty chilling. What was he after? Should she have opened the door to see who it was?

Stay inside. Call 911. Don't search or clear solo.

[Casimer]

Settling wood frames can make sharp knocking noises as well. When I'd lived in Vermont, a house that I'd rented used to make noises that sounded exactly like someone banging a door or window frame - and the noises tended to come in succession, like someone knocking. I'm not saying that this is what it was, just that it's another potential source of knocking sounds.

[hogdogs]

I only shot one woodpecker in my whole life... It was the one that would thump a hollow aluminum flag pole like he was gonna get a goodie out of it... Trouble was I was young guy and liked to stay out late partying and he liked to wake up at the crack of noon and wake my aching head up mad... Sounded like a malfunctioning full auto something or other... He also would hit the metal flashing on the neighbors house... I think he did it just to annoy me... :D
Brent

[Keltyke]

You go out and draw on someone committing simple trespass and you're in deep kimchee in most states.

Unless you're not telling something, you're not trained to advance and confront.

Advancing will work against you in most courts.

If you were disturbed enough to take your weapon with you (holstered or not) why didn't you call the cops?

Arm yourself, stay inside, seek cover and call the cops. Stay on the phone with them until they arrive. Let THEM search the grounds.

If someone actually tries to enter your house, THEN you're probably justified in pulling the trigger.

[hogdogs]

To go out armed is not the same as drawing on a simple trespasser. But if the simple trespasser does anything but leave he is getting closer to being much more than a trespasser. That is how I see it. I do not call 911 too often and likely reserve the call to something I cannot handle myself.
Brent

[izzkidioto]

I am going to have to say reserving 911 calls to things that you "cannot handle" might be a little extreme. I would say that reserving the right to call for things that "would be smart to let a professional handle" would be better put. This is because it is their job as public servants...protect and serve...this being a situation that is not putting you in imminent danger. Not trying to play semantics, simply clarifying.

[besafe2]

2nd or third to NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOUSE WITH A WEAPON TO CHECK OUT A NOISE. Retrieve your weapon & call 911.

[novaDAK]

so having a gun means you just brandished a deadly weapon which is a felony in all 50 states.unless there's some federal law I'm not aware of, that is not necessesarily the case here. Virginia law states:

"It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense."

Simply having a gun is not brandishing here. You must be doing something with it that induces fear in other people. And even then, it doesn't apply to self defense situations.

[P99AS9]

Maybe it was a bird.

I laughing so hard right now at this comment and I don't know why :D

[tackdriver]

My first thought is a woodpecker or other bird. There are a lot of species that will sit and peck at their reflections in windows or car mirrors. They see their reflection as another bird in their territory.

Try having a recently acquired stalker, a pregnant wife and a handful of birds living in the trees around your home who like to engage in this behavior.

[vytoland]

When you go outside and you are armed, you better be cool and focused.

Better to get a pet cat to take care of those birds.

[geologist]

Whenever something goes bump in the night, I have trained my 3 year old German Shepherd bitch to go ahead of me when we go through the house. As much as I love her, that's why you have them. My 10 year old male GSD tags along BEHIND us. :eek:

Oh yes, my bedroom guns, stored legally according to Canadian law are a 14" 12 ga pump with a Surefire forend and a GLOCK17 with a Streamlight M3 light.

Wouldn't want anyone to hurt my dogs. ;)

[Stevie-Ray]

having a gun means you just brandished a deadly weapon which is a felony in all 50 states.I'm going to go out on a limb here and say damn few states.

Maybe it was a bird. Nevermore.:D

[guntotin_fool]

One other item to think about at this election time, we have all sorts of people walking up the house during the day and early evening trying to get us to vote for this that and everything else in the world.

While the scenario the OP posted could have been the the stranger in the street looking for someone, it could have been a kid throwing a ball, a bird drilling the siding looking for bugs, (most likely) and it could have been someone knocking on the door asking you to vote to save the Manatees.

There are a lot of people who knock on doors, very very few of them are armed intruders, they tend to smash a slider or sledge hammer your front door over knocking loudly. I would hate to see your picture on the evening news for splattering the grey matter of the two girl scouts down the street who were selling cookies and you mistook the door bell for an entry alarm.

[VonFireball]

While the scenario the OP posted could have been the the stranger in the street looking for someone

Yeah, and he's so "stranger" that he bashes 3 times on my bedroom window, rather than knocking on the door first.


it could have been a kid throwing a ball

A ball so amazing it bounces 3 times off the same window before bouncing away.


a bird drilling the siding looking for bugs

It wasn't drilling the siding, it was banging on the window. And no, it wasn't a bird. The surroundings of my home prevent that.

But hey, I'll just keep saying it wasn't a bird, over and over and over again when people say "bird" over and over and over again. Never mind the "tactics or training" part of the discussion....:rolleyes:


and it could have been someone knocking on the door asking you to vote to save the Manatees.


Yeah, and they were knocking so loud on my front door, all the way across the other side of the house, that it sounded like they were bashing on my bedroom window. Must've been an echo.

The sierra club only came to my house once, that was sure to be the last time. Trust me on that one.


I would hate to see your picture on the evening news for splattering the grey matter of the two girl scouts down the street who were selling cookies and you mistook the door bell for an entry alarm.

I wish one of the mods would just close this thread.

It's supposed to be "tactics and training" and all 80% of you could come up with was "bird" when I thoroughly described the surroundings and sequence of events that say "human being" rather than "bird".

NO it wasn't a knock on the front door. Read the thread title. If it said "unexpected hard rap on door" then I might understand what led you to believe that, but the title of the thread is "Unexpected Hard Rap On My Bedroom Window".

NO it wasn't a bird.

Seeing as how I took the effort to make a thread that I thought would have some real bearing on "tactics and training" rather than another "double tap, triple tap, backflip, carthwheel, double tap, mozambique, zimbabwe, triple tap, anyone train like this?" thread, I figured it might be worthwhile, but now I realize that I wasted my time with most of you jokers.

Live and learn.

[Scattergun Bob]

Sorry you got a hard time. I sometimes do the same and it is meant in the best of spirits by most here.

Actually, you got sound advice in between the funnies. Perhaps it was not the advice you wanted to hear. Lets review what has been suggested;

1st - DO NOT surrender a position of advantage, (don't go outside) you home is known ground for you and a death trap for your enemy, do not give that up unless for a compelling reason. The problem here is that humans are by nature inquestive and our enemy will try to use that, as in ambush! SO you keep that advantage be the ambush er and stay INSIDE.

2nd - Call for the calvary every time, trained professionals WAIT for backup and conduct searches as a TEAM. Why would you do differently. I know it is a ego thing, to protect my castle.

3rd - NEVER be in a hurry, this one is mine to you. If some REAL and COMPELLING reason exists that makes you leave your home and venture outside, never burst out the door. Expect an ambush, expect the worst case, slice the pie, move slowly, Scan everywhere, be ready, use the terrain, do everything right. REMEMBER, you already voided your best defense, you left your house.

Now I consider those VERY valuable life lessons, suggested by some very professional people. What part did you not GET.

Good Luck & Be Safe

PS you kinda bit hard on the bird thing, we have a tendency around here to rub salt on open wounds:)

[grymster2007]

but now I realize that I wasted my time with most of you jokers.

Yeah, but you gotta admit that Glenn going to investigate the woodpecker with his pancakes and fork was funny!

Didn't spill any syrup, didjya Glenn?

[VonFireball]

Actually, you got sound advice in between the funnies.


And I read it carefully.


Perhaps it was not the advice you wanted to hear.


Actually, I think I had mistaken the advice for a bird banging on my window.


1st - DO NOT surrender a position of advantage


This was excellent advice. I'm definitely taking this one into consideration.

To be fair though, I made sure to check the windows before going outside. I saw nothing, so I assumed I would go look for the dead bird (yeah, sure).


2nd - Call for the calvary every time, trained professionals WAIT for backup and conduct searches as a TEAM.

Calvary? I've had a lifelong faith in the saving power of Jesus Christ.:D

If it had been sundown, I would've. Being that it was broad daylight, I didn't feel the threat level was nearly as high. Maybe my judgement was poor in that regard.

3rd - NEVER be in a hurry, this one is mine to you. If some REAL and COMPELLING reason exists that makes you leave your home and venture outside, never burst out the door.

I wasn't so much "in a hurry" but I quickly checked my windows (question for you, should I have risked myself by checking the windows? What if BG was right there?) and used a route to go outside that may not have been (or not as likely to be) expected by the mystery knocker.

What part did you not GET.

The chicken dinner. It was a bird right?

[WVfishguy]

Poltergeist. Happens more than anyone will admit.

[Scattergun Bob]

Sorry for the SP, but you got my drift, right! And to boot you cracked wise and we did not loose the point, amazing:D.

I am suggesting that you DO NOT go outside as long as you feel a potential threat! That simply "is what it is", and ignoring that may cost you no matter how tactically sound and precise your movement.

In the scope of scanning, checking the exterior thru your windows is not unsound. Try to minimize your exposure profile and be aware of back lighting.

Glad you had some fun here toward the end of this tread, hopefully, some of your questions were answered to your satisfaction.

Good Luck & Be Safe

[pax]

I wish one of the mods would just close this thread.

Sorry guys, I was out of town over the weekend & am just catching up.

What do you think -- should we close & re-start, or do you think the thread can stay on track now?

pax

[Scattergun Bob]

I think we had a little fun at the expense of the OP. I think he got the spirit toward the end, I think the Bird thing is about all USED up. It's been fun reading though:)

Sounds Like the OP is done.

Bob

[pax]

Makes sense.

Closing this. If anyone wants to PM me about it, you know where to find me.

Feel free to re-open the original topic. (Not the bird thing. That's soooo last week now. ;) )

pax