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davem
August 28, 2008, 11:38 PM
I'm thinking about some sort of black powder cartridge rifle and have three types I'm considering, a Remington Rolling block, a Sharps, and a cavalry model trap door Springfield. Any thoughts?

GNLaFrance
August 28, 2008, 11:44 PM
What do you want to do with it?

Rusty.it
August 29, 2008, 04:06 AM
The third one have nothing to do with the other two:)
Sharp and Remington are rifle with heavy and long barrel and very good precision until long distance, the cavalry model springfield is a short barrel light weight rifle born to use it on a horse, yuo can expect a good enough precision in a 100 yard range and not more!
Remenber that the cavalry cartridge was .45-55-405, the .45-70-500 standard load of the infantry rifle was to punitive for the shoulder!
ciao
Rusty

darkgael
August 29, 2008, 04:31 AM
Ditto about the Trapdoor carbine. I have one, use the carbine load; it is nicely accurate out to 100yds. Certainly way less weight than the others if you want to carry it while hunting.
Paul Matthews, much published guru of the 45-70 and BPCR shooting, was partial to the Remington Rolling Block.
Sharps, of course, are ubiquitous and can be had in many different chamberings.
We all like to recommend what we own and I'm no different. It's not on your list but you might look at Browning's 1885 Hi-Wall BPCR. I'm very happy with the one that I own.
Pete

Hawg
August 29, 2008, 04:38 AM
.45-70-500 standard load of the infantry rifle was to punitive for the shoulder!

I had no problems shooting mine.

Rusty.it
August 29, 2008, 08:43 AM
I have try this load (infantry) the first time i shot my new-old harrington & richardson trapdoor carbine (i find it unfired but was imported in Italy in 1973 looking at the proof data) a week wasn't enought to move well my shoulder and my right arm, the test was in prone position, i'm 190cm x 105kg!!
The recoil is very bad, more than my mauser K98 with 200grain bullet and the case full of 47,5 grain of VV-N150!!
Actually i have adopted the cavalry load and i'm happy!
Probably in stand up position is less punitive why the shoulder can move back under recoil!!
I'm not so happy about the precision of the rifle, but this is another history:)
ciao
Rusty

Raider2000
August 29, 2008, 10:07 AM
He He, try the Infantry load in a BFG 45/70 revolver witha 7-1/2" barrel then tell me about RECOIL!!!

Not to hijack this thread but my friend has one of these revolvers & it is not the most pleasant to shoot.

As far as the rifles that you mentioned, it depends on what you venture in doing with them, as mentioned the Sharps & Remington rifles are great long range BPCR's & with the time to taylor the load can make easy work out to 400 yards & possibly beyond where the Cavalry piece is really only a good 100 -150 yard piece but is a good horse back rifle & pretty quick in the right hands.

Hawg
August 29, 2008, 11:56 AM
The recoil is very bad, more than my mauser K98 with 200grain bullet and the case full of 47,5 grain of VV-N150!!

I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment then. To me that's pretty wussy for recoil but then a 450 Marlin doesn't bother me either. Maybe your technique is wrong. If you hold it like a .22 and let it slam into your shoulder, yeah it's gonna hurt. Now a very hot loaded 45-70 in a Siamese Mauser has a little recoil to it.:D

davem
August 29, 2008, 12:23 PM
Well it looks like the rolling block or the sharps. Is one more accurate than the other? On the rolling block, does the block drop down far enough to run a cleaning rod in from the breech or do you use the muzzle end?

ocharry
August 29, 2008, 01:00 PM
i don't know what rolling block you my be looking at but the one my wife shoots and most of the ones i have seen a very sensitive to cartridge length,,,

the rim of the case will not let the cartridge into the chamber with most of the bigger bullets,,,,,the rim of the case will hit the nose of the hammer,,,and it is do to the OAL

on my wife's gun and most of the ones i have seen where the guys are using the bigger bullets(BPCG matches) they cut a notch or a V in the nose of the hammer for more clearance for the cartridge to pass into the chamber

on my wife's rifle i took the hammer out of the gun and took it to work and used an endmill and cut a nice looking radius in the nose of the hammer

this is not a real problem if you are using the 405gr and maybe up to 450 gr bullets,,,,my wife's gun likes the Lyman shmitzer bullets(480gr) pretty well and the hammer needed cleared for those

just some thoughts if you are planning to get a roller

i built a nice highwall for my wife but she keeps shooting the roller,,, and you see a lot of them on THE FIRING LINE lol

my .02

ocharry

Fingers McGee
August 30, 2008, 12:04 PM
I've got an H&R Officer's Model Springfield that gives good accuracy out to 300 yds (havent tried it farther) with a full case (55 to 58 gr) of Goex BP; Pinnacle; or 777 under a 405 or 415 gr RNFP. Recoil isn't punishing. I also use this rifle and loads for Plainsman matches with good results. The weight of the Officers Model make it ideal for Plainsman, as opposed to my 12 lb Sharps which gets reeeeeeaaaall heavy after about 2 or 3 stages with 5 rifle rounds on each.

davem
August 30, 2008, 12:31 PM
What are the plainsman's matches?

Fingers McGee
August 30, 2008, 10:06 PM
Plainsman stages are usually side matches at larger events; However, one of the clubs I shoot with allows a Plainsman category for the Sunday portion of their monthly match. From the SASS handbook, here are the criteria for shooting Plainsman.

THE PLAINSMAN
This event requires two .36 caliber or larger Traditional style percussion revolvers, shot Duelist style.
• Must use a SASS–legal single-shot rifle firing a traditional blackpowder rifle or revolver caliber cartridge (e.g., not a .30-30). The rifle may have spring actuated ejectors if they are standard for that rifle.
• Must use a side by side, with or without exposed hammers or lever action shotgun.
• Must use blackpowder in all loads (rifle, revolver, and shotgun).

While the standard/normal SASS stage will consist of 10 Rifle, 10 Pistol and 4 Shotgun rounds. A Plainsman stage will consist of 3-5 Rifle, 10 Pistol and 2 shotgun rounds. The club I shoot with usually has enough Plainsman shooters to just about fill a Posse. Single shot rifles run the gammut from original Trapdoor Springfield rifles to H&R Handi Rifles with Sharps/Replicas, Remington Rolling blocks, Trapdoor carbines thrown in for good measure.

Deadguy
August 31, 2008, 07:56 AM
How about a Marlin 1895 Cowboy? Up to ten rounds of 45-70 capacity makes it quite the smoker (when loaded with BP of course :D )

Citizen Carrier
August 31, 2008, 11:48 AM
Before I came to Kuwait I took some time to consider what kind of BPCR I wanted.

I considered a lot of options and sought many opinions. I wanted one for sillohuette, mid-range, and long range matches.

I considered High Wall copies, the CPA 44.5 action, various Italian models.

Like a lot of people, I narrowed it down to either a Rolling Block or a Sharps.

It was either going to be one of Pedersoli's John Bodine Rolling Blocks, Quigley model Sharps, or more expensive guns from Lone Star Rifles or C. Sharps company. I just wasn't going to wait that long for one of Shiloh's guns.

I happened to get a four day pass from Fort Hood and drove the 3 or so hours to Conroe, TX to visit Lone Star Rifles. After talking with Dave for two hours, it was clear I was going to get one of his Target model rolling block rifles.

It's being built now. I paid more for this rolling block than I would have for a Pedersoli John Bodine, but it meant something to me to have my money go to an American craftsman.

BTW, I handled a John Bodine two days later at Cabela's after placing my order with LSR. My reaction: I'd like to have one of those AND my Lone Star roller.

But then again, I am a nut...